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Alastor15243

Alastor plays and ranks the whole series! Now Playing: Conquest!

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RIP Artur- Lucius 2.0 is the first ironman casualty. And casualties hurt in SS with its tiny roster of 33 excluding Creature Campaign. Try not to let more people die.

 

16 minutes ago, Alastor15243 said:

...Is that the only orion's bolt in the game? If I had failed to rescue those villagers, would I have had to use a master seal to promote Neimi? If not, this might be the only game in the series that has more of a promotion item than there are units it can promote.

Besides Secret Shops and randomized Valni/Lagdou treasures, yes, yes it is.

 

8 minutes ago, Shadow Mir said:

What about Nidoking and Nidoqueen?

Nidoking would be fine for Valter, it is ferocious and monstrous. Nidoqueen is too gentle and motherly, the only mothers Valter likes are the ones who get to watch how he sadistically tortures their daughters, they can offer themselves to his inhumanity instead, but that'll only delay their daughter's(s') twisted death.

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1 minute ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

RIP Artur- Lucius 2.0 is the first ironman casualty. And casualties hurt in SS with its tiny roster of 33 excluding Creature Campaign. Try not to let more people die.

 

Besides Secret Shops and randomized Valni/Lagdou treasures, yes, yes it is.

 

Nidoking would be fine for Valter, it is ferocious and monstrous. Nidoqueen is too gentle and motherly, the only mothers Valter likes are the ones who get to watch how he sadistically tortures their daughters, they can offer themselves to his inhumanity instead, but that'll only delay their daughter's(s') twisted death.

How can Nidoqueen be motherly? She's barren.

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Yeah, certain Sacred Stones FoW maps don't pull any punches. At all. With this map's difficulty spike and the notably infamous Phantom Ship, SS does have a few maps here and there that resemble actual difficulty. Too bad the rest of the first segment of the game is so easy.

Also, with regards to how Grado learned about the twins' bracelets...maybe the twins told Lyon in confidence? It's a bit far out there, but that seems a semi-plausible explanation for how Grado would've learned; the twins told Lyon as a friend before the war, and then he exploited that knowledge later on to take the bracelets.

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2 minutes ago, Blaze The Great said:

Also, with regards to how Grado learned about the twins' bracelets...maybe the twins told Lyon in confidence? It's a bit far out there, but that seems a semi-plausible explanation for how Grado would've learned; the twins told Lyon as a friend before the war, and then he exploited that knowledge later on to take the bracelets.

The problem there is that the twins themselves didn't know about the bracelets, Seth told Eirika during the story and Eirika told Ephraim, so where would there be room for them to tell Lyon? And even if they did tell him after they found out, the empire is after them before they find out themselves.

Edited by Hello72207

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Ch6 is definitely randomly difficult, if you don't rush Seth to the boss it can get dicey like that. Artur sadly a common casualty too, 2 base defense and 15% growth is brutal for survivability. 

Couple easy chapters again until Gheb time, it's very possible to lose someone trying to get all the items and recruiting Amelia. 

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Sacred Stones Day 9: Chapter 7

As I look at the box arts of FE7 and FE8 in the process of selecting FE8 from the GBA section of my emulator, it occurs to me that I never really noticed how weird the “multiple lords” thing was. Again, probably because I grew up with it, but when the series went back to the series' usual standard of one lord per army in FE9, I... didn't really notice that as weird either. Funny how something that was such a rarity for the series could happen twice in a row without me really appreciating either when it was there or when it was gone.

Curious how the game says multiple times that Renvall is “surrounded by lakes”. Lakes. Plural. I don't get it. I only see one.

Interestingly, everyone got a final-chapter-esque final quote, except for Lute. I have to assume that hers was tied to Artur's, and with him dead, she has nothing to say.

One thing I forgot to mention last time: Joshua was surprisingly useful in dealing with those cavaliers last chapter. I don't think I'd have survived if I hadn't had him around, and he didn't even proc a crit once. I don't think I'll keep up with using him though. Once my army can reliably double, he's basically pointless.

My main priority here is to train Lute. She's only level 7, a good deal behind Franz, my other main unit I'm training. Eirika has basically no chance to stay relevant when she'll be gone for six whole chapters, so I think I'm gonna let her drop. Pity, last chapter almost made her feel like she has promise.

This is... a surprisingly long map theme. I never noticed before this marathon. I think I always remembered it as 2 map themes that sounded fairly similar. But it goes on for a good deal longer than the usual 1:30 ish before looping.

...Hey... hey yeah! I guess that's why when the Awakening DLC used it, they did that really clumsy loop that cut it off halfway through!

Anyway, this map... is yet again mostly just enemies who stay put until you come to them. Booo-ring. I'll take advantage of it though, gladly.

And take advantage of it I have. Lute's gotten some nice level ups. One got her defense and res, and then with a second she got a full left column. And with that, she's finally reached reliable glass cannon one-rounding status. She might be worth giving the dragonshield to now, but I'm still gonna wait until I have an angelic robe to give her too.

Seth and Franz are hanging back for now, mostly fighting those two northern enemies before support grinding.

Another solid magic, skill and speed level up from Lute, this time with res instead of HP.

...I just realized Franz hasn't gotten a single defense level up, and that Lute now only has one less defense than Franz. Christ. That support bonus is gonna be more important than ever now. Jeez, do I dare go as far as to make him a great knight for the added def-...

...Great knights have the exact same defense promotion gain as paladins do.

...And it gives you better speed than paladins.

What the fuck.

Okay, I was really only checking out of curiosity. I'm only gonna use one great knight for sake of novelty, and that's probably gonna be Duessel. But seriously? Promoting to great knight doesn't give you better defense than promoting to paladin?

The classes don't have in-built growth rate bonuses! Those promotion gains are literally the only statistical difference they'll ever get besides caps!

This is... this is utterly baffling. Shit, lemme check some others...

No, recruit to knight and cavalier makes sense, more str and def for knight, more spd, skl and res for cav...

...Pupil to shaman and mage makes sense too...

...Okay, it seems like they got the trainee branching promotions right...

...I think I know what's going on, but if it's true... someone failed a pretty easy logical spot check.

Honestly, it kinda feels like they designed the promotion bonuses for the branching promotion classes... like the promotion bonuses classes like them usually get. As in, what a unit like a great knight or mage knight would get upon promoting to a stronger version of itself.

The problem there... is that usually the biggest promotion gains a class gets on promotion... cover their original class's weaknesses, if they had any glaring ones. Druid gains 3 speed. General also gains 3 speed. Sage gains 3 defense. Falcoknight gains 5 HP and 2 defense.

But here... that's pointless. Because as I said before, besides stat caps, these promotion gains are the only statistical impact that becoming that class is going to have. Making their promotion gains compensate for the weaknesses of a class that they weren't even in means that promoting boosts nearly the exact opposite stats from what it should.

That is... wow that's disappointing. I never noticed that all this time. And I might have never done so if Franz hadn't been defense screwed in this specific run of the game.

...Anyway...

Wow, this villager does not give a single shit. She just fell asleep in the middle of a huge battle between Ephraim and Valter, so she doesn't know what happened or who won.

Weird. Not sure what this says about the Sacred Stones AI, but...

Basically, I placed Lute in range of two mercenaries, with two spots she could be attacked from. I made sure to drain the ballista so she could be guaranteed to survive. But I also wanted to get some more training in for my healers, so I thought to try and tempt one of them with Franz, so that I could have two wounded units instead of one. Maybe, I figured, he'll somehow be seen as a better target despite slightly better bulk and WTA.

And strangely... one of the mercenaries did attack Franz. But it was the second one. The first one attacked Lute, but the second one, who still had a space to attack Lute from, suddenly decided Franz was the better target.

The only difference I can see between the two is that the one that attacked Franz had one less strength.

Lute got yet another lucky defense level up, and now has as much defense as Franz. She also got magic and speed again.

Oh yeah. She's gonna be fun.

But however defense screwed Franz has become, he's finally reached good speed levels. I think he'll be salvageable, especially with a Seth support.

Weird. According to the first village I missed (I flew back with Vanessa to check it), Tirado has been rumored to be plotting behind Valter's back. I don't remember that... ever coming up.

And Lute capped off the chapter with what I think was her fourth straight level that included magic and speed, and Franz and Lute are both level 13, with both of their promotion items in my possession thanks to the knight crest from this boss.

Oh I am going to hate it if she dies. She's going to be so much fun.

Anyway, that's the end of the chapter. It was... laughably mindless. I don't even know what to say. Honestly, this is making me realize Revelation isn't going to be nearly as low on this list as I thought it would be. The gimmicks are indeed terrible, but another big reason I hated it was how utterly braindead the enemy AI was, and I had forgotten that there are several other games in the series where that is also the case. FE3 and Sacred Stones appear to have this problem in spades as well, with maps where 90+% of the enemies don't approach you until you approach them.

I almost feel like doing a double feature due to how quickly I finished this, but nope! Gotta stall for time. No double features for this game!

So let's move on to the ending cutscene.

Oh wow. The change in Orson's eyes is subtle, but... holy shit is it creepy.

...And wow, did you really need to give away the twist in the fucking chapter title for Chapter 8? That's... I mean I obviously already know, but that's just lame for anyone who's managed to stay engaged by this story.

Anyway, tune in tomorrow and we'll be finishing up the pre-split saga with Chapter 8...

 

...Stay safe, everyone.

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3 hours ago, Alastor15243 said:

Interestingly, everyone got a final-chapter-esque final quote, except for Lute. I have to assume that hers was tied to Artur's, and with him dead, she has nothing to say.

One thing I forgot to mention last time: Joshua was surprisingly useful in dealing with those cavaliers last chapter. I don't think I'd have survived if I hadn't had him around, and he didn't even proc a crit once. I don't think I'll keep up with using him though. Once my army can reliably double, he's basically pointless.

My main priority here is to train Lute. She's only level 7, a good deal behind Franz, my other main unit I'm training. Eirika has basically no chance to stay relevant when she'll be gone for six whole chapters, so I think I'm gonna let her drop. Pity, last chapter almost made her feel like she has promise.

Alright, so I don't know this for sure, but here is what I think happens with those final-chapter-esque quotes. Basically, only the units on the map in the cutscene get a quote. The game determines who is on the map by looking at who is going to be deployed automatically in the preparations. This chapter does not deploy everyone in your army, two or three people get left out, but since Artur is dead, only one unit gets left out. Lute was probably the unit that gets left out, so no battle quote. Its just something about her being a prodigy anyways. Maybe you forgot about Neimi and she didn't say anything as well, because she also will not be deployed by your playing.

 

Also Eirika gets autoleveled to level 15 or so so she does not get recked when she comes back. I think Innes and Saleh get one or two free levelups also.

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2 minutes ago, Hello72207 said:

Alright, so I don't know this for sure, but here is what I think happens with those final-chapter-esque quotes. Basically, only the units on the map in the cutscene get a quote. The game determines who is on the map by looking at who is going to be deployed automatically in the preparations. This chapter does not deploy everyone in your army, two or three people get left out, but since Artur is dead, only one unit gets left out. Lute was probably the unit that gets left out, so no battle quote. Its just something about her being a prodigy anyways. Maybe you forgot about Neimi and she didn't say anything as well, because she also will not be deployed by your playing.

 

Also Eirika gets autoleveled to level 15 or so so she does not get recked when she comes back. I think Innes and Saleh get one or two free levelups also.

Ah. Good to know for Eirika. But no, I definitely remember Neimi, and Lute was definitely among the first deployed. I used her last map after all.

Edited by Alastor15243

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5 minutes ago, Alastor15243 said:

Ah. Good to know for Eirika. But no, I definitely remember Neimi, and Lute was definitely among the first deployed. I used her last map after all.

Hmm, no idea then. Maybe it is linked to Artur

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2 hours ago, Alastor15243 said:

The main thing that made me suspect that was that Ross's was linked to Garcia.

The thing is, in normal playthroughs of the game, I have had quotes missing. Let me check the game script.

No, its not linked to Arturs. Lute's goes as follows:

“You can’t possibly consider fighting without my genius at your side!”

Artur's is this:

“I have yet to repay you for helping me fight those abominations. Please, let me stand by your side a while longer.”

They do not appear to be linked, but to be sure, I would have to look at the cutscene itself, which I probably will later, so we shall see.

 

EDIT: I speedrun quickly to the cutscene, and they played normally for me. There should be no reason for Lute to not talk in the cutscene, as they don't appear together and their conversation is not linked, but that is the only cause I can think of.

Edited by Hello72207

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Lute has 15% defense growth so it's pretty funny to see you getting a ton of that with her. 

Have you noticed any units getting low skill? Sacred Stones is like the one game in the series that randomly decided to give a bunch of units low skill growths. Lute specifically is a paltry 30% which made me think of that.

Also Eph route is a bit better at encouraging faster play; mostly the enemies still stay put (Not on that boat though) but the game attempts to give you reasons to advance quickly. Not that it's perfect, but noticeably better than this 8 chapter prologue. 

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5 hours ago, Hello72207 said:

EDIT: I speedrun quickly to the cutscene, and they played normally for me. There should be no reason for Lute to not talk in the cutscene, as they don't appear together and their conversation is not linked, but that is the only cause I can think of.

You killed Artur and Lute still talked?

Edited by Alastor15243

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11 minutes ago, Alastor15243 said:

You killed Artur and Lute still talked?

No, I kept Lute and Artur alive and they both talked, I could try killing Artur and see what happens for me, it only takes like 25 min to get to that point in the game on normal mode.

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13 minutes ago, Hello72207 said:

No, I kept Lute and Artur alive and they both talked, I could try killing Artur and see what happens for me, it only takes like 25 min to get to that point in the game on normal mode.

Lemme know what happens if you do!

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4 hours ago, Alastor15243 said:

Lemme know what happens if you do!

Or I could just look directly at the code. To which I can confirm Lute and Arthur's conversations are linked. In fact it's the same conversation. So conversely if Lute dies Arthur also won't speak. As you suspect Garcia is also linked to Ross, as is Colm to Neimi and Gilliam, Vanessa and Moulder are all linked to each other (Joshua and Natasha, you might suspect are a pair are not linked to each other). And it's nothing to do with deployment. The game just checks if any of them are alive.

Edited by Jotari

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On 5/6/2020 at 9:15 AM, Alastor15243 said:

 

I won't complain about the difficulty, though I will complain about the difficulty spike. Those cavalry are the most terrifying foes the game has thrown at me thus far, and he game hasn't thrown any terrifying foes at me before now. At the very least there were no ambush spawns, though this chapter used cavalry in the fog almost as obnoxiously as the previous GBA games used wyverns.

Yeah this is one the only dangerous chapters in this game. The other two can be far more easily cheesed if you know about them in advance.

 

On 5/6/2020 at 9:15 AM, Alastor15243 said:

 

And apparently Grado learned of the bracelets' secret “somehow”. Either Fado told Vigarde and that knowledge remains inside his reanimated corpse, or Fomortiis just has... clairvoyance powers granting him intel that he's... not providing to his soldiers to help track the twins down.

I kinda assumed they learn about it from Orson. He is supposed to be Ephraim's prepromote, and probably given similar instruction to Seth, but betrayed Renais and their secret to the enemy.

 

 

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2 hours ago, Eltosian Kadath said:

I kinda assumed they learn about it from Orson. He is supposed to be Ephraim's prepromote, and probably given similar instruction to Seth, but betrayed Renais and their secret to the enemy.

Nope. What gives it away to Seth that Orson is a traitor is:

1: No reinforcements came from the castle

2: He claimed to have escaped and still left Ephraim in chains

3: He knows about the bracelets

4: He's hiding a blade in his doublet.

Edited by Alastor15243

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1 minute ago, Alastor15243 said:

Nope. What gives it away to Seth that Orson is a traitor is:

1: No reinforcements came from the castle

2: He claimed to have escaped and still left Eliwood in chains

3: He knows about the bracelets

4: He's hiding a blade in his doublet.

You just know Seth is trying to come off as really smart and wise here when really number 4 was the massive give away that tipped him off to the others.

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2 minutes ago, Jotari said:

You just know Seth is trying to come off as really smart and wise here when really number 4 was the massive give away that tipped him off to the others.

That sounds fairly out of character, if you're not just joking.

More importantly, this brings up another point: When did Grado have an opportunity to seduce Orson to their side but not to capture Ephraim?

Edited by Alastor15243

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28 minutes ago, Jotari said:

You just know Seth is trying to come off as really smart and wise here when really number 4 was the massive give away that tipped him off to the others.

 

31 minutes ago, Alastor15243 said:

2: He claimed to have escaped and still left Eliwood in chains

I don't know. Number 2. seems like a bigger one. I mean, Eliwood wasn't even his lord. What sort of fool does Orson take Seth for?

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10 minutes ago, The Roger The Paladin said:

 

I don't know. Number 2. seems like a bigger one. I mean, Eliwood wasn't even his lord. What sort of fool does Orson take Seth for?

Jesus Christ. I ALWAYS make at least one slip-up every game.

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8 hours ago, Jotari said:

Or I could just look directly at the code. To which I can confirm Lute and Arthur's conversations are linked. In fact it's the same conversation. So conversely if Lute dies Arthur also won't speak. As you suspect Garcia is also linked to Ross, as is Colm to Neimi and Gilliam, Vanessa and Moulder are all linked to each other (Joshua and Natasha, you might suspect are a pair are not linked to each other). And it's nothing to do with deployment. The game just checks if any of them are alive.

Thanks for confirming this by the way!

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1 hour ago, Alastor15243 said:

That sounds fairly out of character, if you're not just joking.

More importantly, this brings up another point: When did Grado have an opportunity to seduce Orson to their side but not to capture Ephraim?

 

1 hour ago, The Roger The Paladin said:

 

I don't know. Number 2. seems like a bigger one. I mean, Eliwood wasn't even his lord. What sort of fool does Orson take Seth for?

The others just look hilarious circumstantial to me in comparison to him literally trying to conceal a weapon from them. It's the proverbial smoking gun of the miniture mystery. 

Edited by Jotari

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