Alastor plays and ranks the whole series! Mission Complete! ...For now.

[Alastor15243]

2 minutes ago, Seazas said:

It's in Gaiden where Alm was consistently displayed as the right one in him and Celica's argument with Celica being the one to jump to baseless conclusions while Alm has to deny it.

From what I remember that still happens. I can't remember a single time when Celica was right about... well... basically anything she disagreed with Alm about. Maybe re-playing it will remind me of stuff I missed, but from what I remember, Celica was even worse relatively in this game than she was in Gaiden. At least in Gaiden she made the deal with Jedah to save Alm's life after he got into trouble, and it wasn't nearly as stupid of a deal either.

Edited May 25, 2021 by Alastor15243

[Punished Dayni]

5 hours ago, Alastor15243 said:

...Am I really going to look at the flavor text for literally everything in this game?

...Eh, probably won't take too long.

Trust me, it won't be worth much.

5 hours ago, Alastor15243 said:

Ah yes, and they turned Lukas into... this ridiculously smooth-voiced gentleman, which I found incredibly jarring from my memories of the original Gaiden, where his face and he translation made him seem really blunt and rude and... almost like a grown-up, heroic Nelson from the Simpsons.

I mean I like this Lukas, but man the idea of him instead sharing a voice with Nelson Muntz is giving me a good chuckle.

5 hours ago, Alastor15243 said:

...Apparently you get support bonuses from three tiles away, even if you need to be within two tiles to gain support points.

SoV is weird like that.

6 hours ago, Alastor15243 said:

I've got two competing ideas. First is to make Gray a mercenary, Kliff a cavalier, Faye a cleric, and Tobin a mage. These are the biggest recommendations I've seen for these guys, but I've never done that for Kliff and Tobin and finished the game. The idea would be that I'd play the game “normally” with these classes.

The other idea is... mostly the same, but instead making Kliff and possibly Tobin join Gray as mercenaries so that I can show you guys just how utterly busted the mercenary class line is and what you can do by the end of the game if you commit to it and return to villager from dread fighter. With little to no grinding whatsoever, you can make an utter mockery of the end of the game, and I think it would be pretty damned amusing to show that off.

While I am the one person whose mage Kliff actually gets Spd, I completely understand not going for it. Have heard Cav Kliff also won't be that impressive and having an early archer is nice, but Mage/Archer Tobin/Kliff is mainstream regardless. Mage Tobin I'll stick by for Physic, but I don't know what to say about Gray/Kliff for sure.

I don't think you need DF loop at all, I will argue using the pitchforks on the armours in the main game being busted enough (37 Atk Bow Knight Forsyth is an actual monster)

[Samz707]

2 minutes ago, Alastor15243 said:

From what I remember that still happens. I can't remember a single time when Celica was right about... well... basically anything she disagreed with Alm about. Maybe re-playing it will remind me of stuff I missed, but from what I remember, Celica was even worse relatively in this game than she was in Gaiden.

Don't they kind do things similarly a bit?

They both deviate from their original goals to help out innocents and it works out for them. (Though Alm gets advised to ignore them, though I don't think this happens for Celica?), though I guess it's not the same, Celica has to deal with Barth and Grieth while Alm can ignore Tatiana and Silque, even if it's a bad idea to do so.

 

EDIT: and I only just realized the "disagreed with Alm" bit, me stupid.

Yeah she, doesn't really have a leg to stand on, sure I guess the gods technically somewhat help out at the end but they're arguably kind of the reason Valentia is the way it is. (not to mention Celica, at least in Echoes, loses all of her IQ points and seemingly present development into a more competent person in the process.)

 

Edited May 25, 2021 by Samz707

[Seazas]

6 minutes ago, Alastor15243 said:

From what I remember that still happens. I can't remember a single time when Celica was right about... well... basically anything she disagreed with Alm about. Maybe re-playing it will remind me of stuff I missed, but from what I remember, Celica was even worse relatively in this game than she was in Gaiden. At least in Gaiden she made the deal with Jedah to save Alm's life after he got into trouble, and it wasn't nearly as stupid of a deal either.

Celica's feats are acknowledged more and seem to slightly increase in Echoes, she acknowledges her position as princess a lot more, she gets more scenes of her love toward her friends and Alm in general, etc. She definitely isn't perfect but a lot of it stems from Kaga giving her this passive personality and passive role to begin with. 

By the by, that "confrontation" between Alm and Mycen Jotari told you about doesn't actually exist in Gaiden. Mycen does say no at the idea of the old man joining the Deliverance just like in Echoes but then... Alm and co just leaves, with nothing bad coming out of it. Not even in Mycen's return does he criticize Alm or talk much about what changed with Alm within Gaiden. It's in Echoes where Mycen goes "are you ready?" and has that fantastic speech with Alm.

Edited May 25, 2021 by Seazas

[Jotari]

59 minutes ago, Seazas said:

"Angelic twat" Here we go again with Jotari proceeding to push his headcanon version of Gaiden Alm. Gaiden Alm was never this rough around the edges super rude and mean dude. It's in Gaiden where Alm was consistently displayed as the right one in him and Celica's argument with Celica being the one to jump to baseless conclusions while Alm has to deny it. Alm listened to the opinions of others and even cried in the original. But boo hoo, it's the fault of the Echoes writers for sticking closest to whatever Kaga was doing with Alm than the "popular" community perception of the guy. 

We can reignite this conversation, but I'm only going to engage with you if you are actual respective and actually bring some solid arguments to the table. Those are two, I think, very basic conditions. If you don't, I'm simply going to ignore you, because I know actually presenting evidence and solid argument have no compulsion to sway you. Speaking of which,

じいちゃん (Jichan)

Is what Alm calls Mycen in the original Japanese text of Gaiden.

じいさん (Jisan)

Is what he calls Mycen in the Japanese text in Shadows of Valentia.

Jichan is a more informal name than Jisan. These are rendered as gramps and grandfather in the English language versions which is pretty accurate. Alm literally is rougher around the edges in Gaiden using rougher language and less formal honorifics for people. And yes, this stuff matters a lot in Japanese. They didn't change it for no reason. They intentionally made Alm more formal.

And just for comparison, in both versions of the game, Celica refers to Mycen as

おじいさま (Oji Sama)

A very formal way of addressing him.

 

Edited May 25, 2021 by Jotari

[Shanty Pete's 1st Mate]

7 hours ago, Alastor15243 said:

I've got two competing ideas. First is to make Gray a mercenary, Kliff a cavalier, Faye a cleric, and Tobin a mage. These are the biggest recommendations I've seen for these guys, but I've never done that for Kliff and Tobin and finished the game. The idea would be that I'd play the game “normally” with these classes.

The other idea is... mostly the same, but instead making Kliff and possibly Tobin join Gray as mercenaries so that I can show you guys just how utterly busted the mercenary class line is and what you can do by the end of the game if you commit to it and return to villager from dread fighter. With little to no grinding whatsoever, you can make an utter mockery of the end of the game, and I think it would be pretty damned amusing to show that off.

Lemme know what you guys think!

Stay safe, everyone!

I'd highly recommend making at least 1 Archer. An Attack range of 1~3 (or 1~4 with an equipped Bow) is just something nobody else can do at this point. And this gets more absurd with each promotion. You get Python near the end of Act 1, but his stats are rather iffy, and it's hard to get him to Sniper in short order. I like making Gray an Archer for his high Strength, but honestly any of the boys can do well in this role.

[Jotari]

14 minutes ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

I'd highly recommend making at least 1 Archer. An Attack range of 1~3 (or 1~4 with an equipped Bow) is just something nobody else can do at this point. And this gets more absurd with each promotion. You get Python near the end of Act 1, but his stats are rather iffy, and it's hard to get him to Sniper in short order. I like making Gray an Archer for his high Strength, but honestly any of the boys can do well in this role.

But not Faye...oddly enough.

Heroes baffles me some times. They make Faye an archer when she can't become one in Echoes and then make both Gray and Tobin sword infantries XD

[Acacia Sgt]

10 minutes ago, Jotari said:

Heroes baffles me some times. They make Faye an archer when she can't become one in Echoes and then make both Gray and Tobin sword infantries XD

Because Faye was added before SoV was released, actually.

Date Faye was added to Heroes: April 14, 2017
SoV release date in Japan: April 20, 2017

Clearly, the SoV team didn't told the Heroes team that Archer was Male only in Gaiden/SoV.

Edited May 25, 2021 by Acacia Sgt

[Samz707]

6 minutes ago, Jotari said:

But not Faye...oddly enough.

Heroes baffles me some times. They make Faye an archer when she can't become one in Echoes and then make both Gray and Tobin sword infantries XD

Then they made her an archer again for her alt.

Seriously, the Echoes cast are literally perfect for alts since they can be different classes, yet they just don't.

[Venger_06]

Are you goin to do MyCastle battles with your Conquest team?

7 hours ago, Alastor15243 said:

Ah yes, if you examine the area you'll see clues about what the “canon” reclass paths are for each of the characters. Archer for Tobin (an arrow from him practicing archery), mercenary for Gray (sword slashes from him and Alm on the fence) and... I think there's a burn mark from Kliff practicing magic somewhere, but I think it was somewhere else and I missed it somehow. But anyway... I have two competing ideas for what to do with the villagers, and neither involve putting anyone in their canon classes but Gray (and maybe Faye if the game gave some hint of her being a cleric that I didn't see).

Strangely, Heroes portrays Faye as an Archer.

7 hours ago, Alastor15243 said:

I've got two competing ideas. First is to make Gray a mercenary, Kliff a cavalier, Faye a cleric, and Tobin a mage. These are the biggest recommendations I've seen for these guys, but I've never done that for Kliff and Tobin and finished the game. The idea would be that I'd play the game “normally” with these classes.

Archer Kliff is the way to go. Having a ranged attacker with 8 RES is no joke in this game.

3 hours ago, Jotari said:

If I remember rightly this isn't how it goes down in Gaiden, with Alm actually meeting Mycen and having a confrontation with him. This is spookier and sets up Mycen's cryptic role in the sotry better, but I want the incarnation of Alm who is more rebellious and directly disobeys his grandfather instead of this angelic twat. Yeah, yeah I have a lot of issues with Alm in this game which is a pretty contentious subject overall. I'm sure I'll bother people about it more later.

IS could have made Alm stand out from the other lords by giving him a distinct personality. Now, he's just another generic goody two-shoes.

[Acacia Sgt]

Alternatively, they did told them, so they made her an Archer since "Well, since she can't there then let's compensate her here".

[Alastor15243]

4 minutes ago, Maof06 said:

Are you goin to do MyCastle battles with your Conquest team?

Nobody said anything about that when I brought it up, so it doesn't sound like I have any takers or any reader interest.

6 minutes ago, Maof06 said:

Archer Kliff is the way to go. Having a ranged attacker with 8 RES is no joke in this game.

Given that nobody wants me to demonstrate how completely busted the dread fighter loop is apparently, this is a tempting idea.

[Acacia Sgt]

I certainly question the idea of the remake in keeping Res growths as virtually non-existent.

[Shanty Pete's 1st Mate]

38 minutes ago, Alastor15243 said:

Given that nobody wants me to demonstrate how completely busted the dread fighter loop is apparently, this is a tempting idea.

I don't think it's that anyone is seriously questioning that, if you get a unit to Dread Fighter, and then loop them back down to Villager, they'll have a busted performance. Of course they will - it's infinite leveling, a la Awakening. But by the time you've got your Dread Fighter ready to "promote" to Villager, you're at least in Act 4, if not right on the doorsteps of the Endgame. Unless, of course, you focus your resources on just a few sword infantry dudes, which sounds rather boring. Just as it's boring to make them all the same class in the first place, rather than letting each one distinguish themselves with different weapon types.

I'm not opposed to busted strategies - I like Hunter's Volley, I love Double Lion, and I adore the Mage Ring. I'm just personally not enthused about doing the same busted thing for everyone. That said, it's your own playthrough, and I respect your right to do it as you choose.

43 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said:

I certainly question the idea of the remake in keeping Res growths as virtually non-existent.

It's very weird - like in FE1, FE2 started with everyone having no Res growths. Zip, nada. Then the remakes came, and gave them... very low Res growths. Where it's possible, but not likely to happen more than once or twice, per unit, per playthrough. You can basically think of them as 0% (DLC-Emma has 10%, Conrad has 8%, Genny has 5%, and all other units have 4% or less), and next-to-nothing is lost. I kinda like the Echoes system - letting certain units, whether early (Kliff) or late (Delthea), stand out with high Resistance bases. While low-Res units just have to work around it (i.e. having enough HP, and making sure not to get doubled by Arcanists).

[Jotari]

1 hour ago, Acacia Sgt said:

Because Faye was added before SoV was released, actually.

Date Faye was added to Heroes: April 14, 2017
SoV release date in Japan: April 20, 2017

Clearly, the SoV team didn't told the Heroes team that Archer was Male only in Gaiden/SoV.

I doubt that's the only possibility. They made Narcian an axe unit after all. It might be possible they intentionally chose a class she couldn't be. At least, that would have been my theory if the boys had different classes. Making all of them classes they can't possibly be in game would have been an amusing twist on creativity. Axe infantry Gray, Pegasus Knight Tobin and, Harrier Kliff!

52 minutes ago, Alastor15243 said:

Nobody said anything about that when I brought it up, so it doesn't sound like I have any takers or any reader interest.

Given that nobody wants me to demonstrate how completely busted the dread fighter loop is apparently, this is a tempting idea.

Repeating the question about wether you'll recruit the Cipher DLC characters, since I don't think I got follow up on that before. If you have addressed it then I apologize.

2 minutes ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

While low-Res units just have to work around it (i.e. having enough HP, and making sure not to get doubled by Arcanists).

Well either that or become a Dread Fighter. Even without the loop is still a pretty busted class.

Edited May 26, 2021 by Jotari

[Alastor15243]

1 minute ago, Jotari said:

Repeating the question about wether you'll recruit the Cipher DLC characters, since I don't think I got follow up on that before. If you have addressed it then I apologize.

Nope, you're correct. That slipped through the cracks. Busy day.

I know very little about them, and for SoV I haven't gotten any DLC you have to pay for. Except for the amiibo stuff. If people want me to use them I might buy the DLC, but otherwise probably not.

[Acacia Sgt]

So, I take it it's the same thing for Rise of the Deliverance?

[Jotari]

1 minute ago, Alastor15243 said:

Nope, you're correct. That slipped through the cracks. Busy day.

I know very little about them, and for SoV I haven't gotten any DLC you have to pay for. Except for the amiibo stuff. If people want me to use them I might buy the DLC, but otherwise probably not.

If you have the money to spare I think they mike for some nice little additions. They aren't the most the most amazing characters in the world and they're integrated into the plot about as well as Fates children, but I think you'll probably appreciate them, given the cast of Shadows of Valentia are so low that you can deploy them alongside everyone else. And when they shut down the 3DS online in a year or two you might get that nagging feeling of regret over the fact that you'll now never get to see them in action (at least outside of youtube).

Don't get any of the overclasses though. They're somewhat cool, but the post game was not designed around an extra 20 levels so there's virtually nothing to actually use them on.

[Shanty Pete's 1st Mate]

4 minutes ago, Jotari said:

I doubt that's the only possibility. They made Narcian an axe unit after all. It might be possible they intentionally chose a class she couldn't be. At least, that would have been my theory if the boys had different classes. Making all of them classes they can't possibly be in game would have been an amusing twist on creativity. Axe infantry Gray, Pegasus Knight Tobin and, Harrier Kliff!

This is what we get for counting Tobin out.

Also, I'd make somebody a dark magic user. How about Atlas the Arcanist?

5 minutes ago, Jotari said:

Well either that or become a Dread Fighter. Even without the loop is still a pretty busted class.

Agreed. 7 move, doubling basically everything, and magical damage received cut in half. The tricky thing with the loop is that, until you get back to Dread Fighter, you're forgoing the movement and Res buffs. So if you're just doing the main game, without a ton of grinding, you'd probably want to be hasty about getting through it. I used the loop on Saber to help take on Thabes, but I wasn't shy on grinding to prepare for that.

7 minutes ago, Alastor15243 said:

Nope, you're correct. That slipped through the cracks. Busy day.

I know very little about them, and for SoV I haven't gotten any DLC you have to pay for. Except for the amiibo stuff. If people want me to use them I might buy the DLC, but otherwise probably not.

It all comes across as kind of overpriced to me. Especially, as Jotari mentioned, the Overclass ones. That said, I bought the Three Houses DLC (and felt like it was worth it), so I may not best person to be giving financial advice.

[Venger_06]

59 minutes ago, Alastor15243 said:

Nobody said anything about that when I brought it up, so it doesn't sound like I have any takers or any reader interest.

My Birthright team is almost ready.

5 minutes ago, Jotari said:

And when they shut down the 3DS online in a year or two you might get that nagging feeling of regret over the fact that you'll now never get to see them in action (at least outside of youtube).

7 minutes ago, Jotari said:

Don't get any of the overclasses though. They're somewhat cool, but the post game was not designed around an extra 20 levels so there's virtually nothing to actually use them on.

They're definitely useful in Thabes.

[Samz707]

16 minutes ago, Alastor15243 said:

Nope, you're correct. That slipped through the cracks. Busy day.

I know very little about them, and for SoV I haven't gotten any DLC you have to pay for. Except for the amiibo stuff. If people want me to use them I might buy the DLC, but otherwise probably not.

From what I can gather, the Bonus characters and the prequel Rise of the Deliverence DLC is the only ones worth buying.

I do think you should at least get Rise of the Deliverance, it's got some really good story moments that flesh out Echoes a bit more and while admittingly short (seriously get the bundle so they're cheaper.), the scenarios they put you in do make for somewhat interesting gameplay due to how you quite simply have to make do with what you got. (Also, controllable generics in one of them.)

If you like Lukas now...well, you're going to potentially love a big thing he does in the DLC.

Edited May 26, 2021 by Samz707

[Acacia Sgt]

Gotta second at least Rise of the Deliverance, if you get any DLC at all.

[Alastor15243]

13 minutes ago, Samz707 said:

the scenarios they put you in do make for somewhat interesting gameplay due to how you quite simply have to make do with what you got.

The general enthusiasm in the thread is noted, but this isn't exactly a selling point for me. I don't really have fun with maps that make the game hard when I don't yet have an army I've made my own. It's why I don't like excessively hard early games, and in my experience it generally extends to pre-deploy DLC.

[Samz707]

16 minutes ago, Alastor15243 said:

The general enthusiasm in the thread is noted, but this isn't exactly a selling point for me. I don't really have fun with maps that make the game hard when I don't yet have an army I've made my own. It's why I don't like excessively hard early games, and in my experience it generally extends to pre-deploy DLC.

I should explain, the DLC doesn't use your actual main-game troops.

The Deliverance cast are in it, but they use pre-set stats (Sometimes even having normally enemy exclusive skills), so it's more about using them and the stats they come with rather than say, steamrolling it with a level 40 Lukas, you have a pre-set cast of characters with pre-set stats, while they are somewhat challenging, doing them early/late-game isn't going to change anything as there's no level scaling, they're completely fixed challenges, you will have the same experience doing them at the very start as you will in the post-game.

So they actually remain exactly the same regardless of anything to do with the main campaign, have a fully promoted Lukas? he's back to being a signifficantly weaker Soldier, you pitch fork'd Clive into an Archer? he's a Cavalier again.

In addition, beating the DLC unlocks extra memory prisms and Supports between the Deliverance cast. (Like Python and Clive for instance getting a full C to A together.)

I wouldn't say they're super difficult, the only really difficult one actually has casual mode uniquely on (A long castle defend map, though you do actually unlock a unique bow, Python's bow I think if I remember right, if you manage to keep everyone alive until the timer runs out and another gives you generics who can die but the reward requires keeping them all alive.), so there are a few optional objectives that unlock extra powerful equipment if you clear them but for the actually interesting memory prisms/supports, you merely just have to clear the stage.

Though do be ready for the fact they are admittingly mostly recycled maps from the main game, the actual enemy layouts/objectives are different enough but the actual maps are mostly recycled, which is kinda bad. (Though the extra story is well worth it IMO and I feel at least one of the recycled maps is different enough to fully justify it's re-use.)

Edited May 26, 2021 by Samz707

[Alastor15243]

@Samz707I know, that's the problem. FE battles with pre-set units like in Heirs of Fates aren't really my cup of tea.