Alastor plays and ranks the whole series! Mission Complete! ...For now.

[Interdimensional Observer]

1 minute ago, Alastor15243 said:

...Honestly, I wonder what Tauroneo and Jill and Zihark and the other MKW veterans thought of BK joining the Daein Liberation Army.

Good point! We don't know see any of that. And for Tauroneo specifically, we don't really know what he thought of Ashnard's Daein. After his wife took his family away, he plunged himself into service, but we don't know anything else. This all we know of his thoughts on Ashnard:

Tauroneo: Oh, my king… In all of Daein’s history, perhaps no other ruler has used the talents at his command to the degree you have… But all the same, no other king has chosen a path so incredibly stupid.

Being a former Steadfast Rider, you'd think he'd have a strong opinion on what Daein is and what the Mad King's Daein was. The Black Knight was an enigmatic part of that, and was one of the people who took T-ro's esteemed rank.

[Alastor15243]

27 minutes ago, Jotari said:

There are hacks out there that let you play the prologue and gaidens on higher difficulty levels. I know quality of life hacks and stuff were skipped over for Thracia, but it might be something to consider in this game as Shadow Dragon has the whole "SLAUGHTER YOUR ARMY TO PLAY A FIFTH OF THE GAME". 😕

In any case I would like to see the Gaidens played as it's the only new content Shadow Dragon provides and this will be the third run through of the War of Shadows so it's not like there's going to be a massive amount to talk about in terms of plot and even gameplay. So if hacking isn't off the table, I vote for slaughtering your army while simultaneously playing it iron man. Hooray for replacement units.

That is definitely an issue to consider. Using non-translation mods generally goes against the principle of the thing, but on the other hand... that content probably should be seen, and doing it normally would probably piss me off more than it probably would normally. It's a puzzle.

[Icelerate]

10 hours ago, Alastor15243 said:

NO. BAD IKE. YOU ARE NOT GOKU. YOU ARE NOT FUCKING GOKU. THIS MAN KILLED YOUR FATHER FOR UNFATHOMABLY PETTY REASONS. YOU SPENT NEARLY THE ENTIRETY OF THE FIRST GAME WANTING TO KILL THIS MAN TO AVENGE YOUR FATHER. YOU SHOULD NOT HAVE BEEN HAPPY HE WAS STILL ALIVE. THIS IS NOT CHARACTER DEVELOPMENT. THIS IS NOT MATURITY. STOP. STOP IT RIGHT NOW.

Is that disrespecting Goku? You're saying Ike is ruined as a character by becoming like Goku so I'm going to assume it is throwing shade at Goku but I might be wrong and what you're upset about is that Ike was never anything like him. I'm curious what you meant here. I haven't watched or read Dragon Ball so I can't comment on whether Ike is like Goku or not. 

 

6 hours ago, Alastor15243 said:

No, he talks about how, during his time serving Gawain, he's reaching the point where he has to leave and start a new life elsewhere before anyone figures out he's a branded because he isn't aging enough. But it defeats the entire point of doing that if anyone figures out that Zelgius the supremely talented soldier of Daein and Zelgius the elite general of Begnion are the same ridiculously long-lived person.

You're right, if he wants a secret identity and avoid exposing that he's living a long life, then he should have changed his name. Even Eirika was smart enough to think of a name on the spot. Does that make Zelgius dumber than Eirika? 

[Jotari]

5 minutes ago, Icelerate said:

Is that disrespecting Goku? You're saying Ike is ruined as a character by becoming like Goku so I'm going to assume it is throwing shade at Goku but I might be wrong and what you're upset about is that Ike was never anything like him. I'm curious what you meant here. I haven't watched or read Dragon Ball so I can't comment on whether Ike is like Goku or not. 

 

You're right, if he wants a secret identity and avoid exposing that he's living a long life, then he should have changed his name. Even Eirika was smart enough to think of a name on the spot. Does that make Zelgius dumber than Eirika? 

Maybe Zelgius is just a really common name in Tellius and it's just by coincidence this is the only person we ever see with that name? Or perhaps Begnion Zelgius is masquerading as Daein Zelgius's son. Then he might have like a family name and history to make use of.

[Alastor15243]

20 minutes ago, Icelerate said:

Is that disrespecting Goku? You're saying Ike is ruined as a character by becoming like Goku so I'm going to assume it is throwing shade at Goku but I might be wrong and what you're upset about is that Ike was never anything like him. I'm curious what you meant here. I haven't watched or read Dragon Ball so I can't comment on whether Ike is like Goku or not. 

Well, on that topic, Goku is fun and all, but he's also batshit insane.

But yes, the main point is that no, Ike was never anything like that in PoR, and this is just completely out of left field for his relationship with the Black Knight.

[Icelerate]

31 minutes ago, Alastor15243 said:

Well, on that topic, Goku is fun and all, but he's also batshit insane.

But yes, the main point is that no, Ike was never anything like that in PoR, and this is just completely out of left field for his relationship with the Black Knight.

Is Ike still your favourite protagonist? 

[Alastor15243]

2 minutes ago, Icelerate said:

Is Ike still your favourite protagonist? 

If I have to take both PoR and RD into account when I say that? Probably not, but then I don't know who the new #1 would be. Maybe Lyn?

Edited September 30, 2020 by Alastor15243

[Eltosian Kadath]

12 hours ago, Alastor15243 said:

 

NO. BAD IKE. YOU ARE NOT GOKU. YOU ARE NOT FUCKING GOKU. THIS MAN KILLED YOUR FATHER FOR UNFATHOMABLY PETTY REASONS. YOU SPENT NEARLY THE ENTIRETY OF THE FIRST GAME WANTING TO KILL THIS MAN TO AVENGE YOUR FATHER. YOU SHOULD NOT HAVE BEEN HAPPY HE WAS STILL ALIVE. THIS IS NOT CHARACTER DEVELOPMENT. THIS IS NOT MATURITY. STOP. STOP IT RIGHT NOW.

Holy shit does this line ruin Ike as a character. I can't believe they did this. It's as if the mere revelation that Zelgius was the Black Knight all along was supposed to inherently redeem the Black Knight instead of condemn Zelgius.

And then Ike and Zelgius have this moment where they talk about Greil, and Ike asks Zelgius if he was as skillful as Zelgius remembered Greil being, and like... holy shit. This... I hate this so much.

Much as I like Path of Radiance Ike, Radiant Dawn dropped the ball with Ike.

 

4 hours ago, Alastor15243 said:

Okay, I'm looking for feedback... when I start Shadow Dragon next, would you guys rather I ironmanned one of the lower hards, or did H5, but without ironmanning?

I am a bit torn, as having to deal with breaking some of the early boss's weapons is something I feel you should probably have to experience for ranking its difficulty (which is something that WILL happen on the highest difficulties...), but I also kinda like the idea of you trying to ironman it.

I will add two extra notes, is first to reinforce the suggestion of going through the prologue with a normal save first to see that content, and doing the mass death needed to see the gaidens (which will also let you see some of the replacement units...)

 

[Jotari]

2 hours ago, Alastor15243 said:

If I have to take both PoR and RD into account when I say that? Probably not, but then I don't know who the new #1 would be. Maybe Lyn?

you have to take Eliwood and Hector mode into account with Lyn too though...

[Alastor15243]

5 hours ago, Jotari said:

you have to take Eliwood and Hector mode into account with Lyn too though...

Yeah, but Lyn doesn't do anything to ruin her character in those parts. She also still has a decent role.

6 hours ago, Eltosian Kadath said:

I will add two extra notes, is first to reinforce the suggestion of going through the prologue with a normal save first to see that content, and doing the mass death needed to see the gaidens (which will also let you see some of the replacement units...)

Just to be clear, I have seen all of the gaidens. I did a Marth Solo on normal in the name of seeing them all. But I'm fuzzy on the details since that was more than 10 years ago. How few units do you have to have in order to get these? And what's the minimum number that the game gives you replacements to bring you up to?

[Eltosian Kadath]

1 hour ago, Alastor15243 said:

How few units do you have to have in order to get these? And what's the minimum number that the game gives you replacements to bring you up to?

You need less than 15 units alive to unlock all of the Gaiden except the last (which you need to have Tiki dead or unrecruited, and not have the Falchion), and they give you replacement units anytime you have less units than the maximum deployment slots, so that you can always deploy a full army.

[Alastor15243]

Radiant Dawn Day 43: Chapter 4-E-3

Alright, so, I made a reminder of myself about this topic in case I didn't think of it again today:

Regarding Goldoa's neutrality...

What exactly was their plan if they got invaded? Like, they act like as long as they stay neutral the pact will never be broken, but eventually someone with thoughts of world conquest would eventually come to them. And then what? Is the plan to not fight back? To play heron and let themselves get genocided for the sake of the world? Yeah, I doubt that given what Nasir said about the dragons' violent nature.

Honestly, wouldn't it be a better idea to split themselves into two countries, have one maintain peace, and have the other do all the fighting for them? Or are laguz races just fundamentally incapable of recognizing more than one ruler for their entire race at any given time? I mean Ulki said stuff that, while it doesn't outright say anything like that, definitely puts me in that direction of thought at least.

Alright, moving on...

Ike is... carrying Urvan for some reason. Or is that just his animation for wielding any axe, even if it's a hammer? It really, really looks like Urvan.

Okay, so, Yune starts telling a story “from long ago, long before the grandparents of anyone here were born”.

Given that Kurthnaga is present, and is required to be present for the story, and his father was alive during the flood and is still alive now, this better not be just talking about what led up to the flood.

...No, this is talking about the very beginning of the world. Fair enough.

Okay, so, Yune says that Ashunera arose from a world that was once only water, and she made land on it.

...How fucking deep are the oceans of this world, that it was already covered in water before the water levels permanently rose even further?

Anyway...

So yeah, this is interesting. Despite calling her initial creations “beings”, Ashunera apparently fundamentally lacked the capacity to create sapient life. It was beyond her ability, and her inability to have anyone to truly talk to caused her to be lonely and miserable. It wasn't until the animals she made evolved on their own over thousands of years (crazy short timescale here, but fuck it, it's magic fantasy) that she ever had anyone to talk to to take her out of her crushing loneliness. But in this picture we're seeing of the zunanma... they look far more “animal-like” than even the laguz. If what I remember happening does indeed happen, I'm gonna be a bit confused.

...Okay, so, they evolved even further from this state apparently, but...

...Weirdly, they use what's clearly a screenshot of the Begnion-laguz war cutscene to describe the zunanma fighting among each other-

OH FUCK YOU GAME.

The word beorc isn't capitalized.

The word laguz isn't capitalized.

But the word Branded is capitalized, and now apparently the word Zunanma is supposed to be capitalized too!?

MAKE UP YOUR GODDAMNED MIND.

Okay, so, weirdly, I remember this game saying that Ashunera literally split the Zunanma into laguz and beorc, but no, apparently she just renamed them that when they evolved to be too separate from each other.

...Which begs the question of why the fuck natural selection would encourage the beorc to evolve away their animal features like wings and the like, unless it gave them an evolutionary advantage in some way. Did they have a tool-use advantage over their laguz kin even back then at that low tech level?

So, Kurthnaga says that “neither the laguz nor the beorc have an accurate depiction [of ancient history] by the sound of it”, which is an interesting concept, but do we even know what the laguz depiction of the origin of the world even is? That would've been interesting, maybe making us think the laguz have the accurate one, only to blow us out of the water by showing that they had a biased and warped history as well.

Holy shit, Deghinsea's blessing from immediately after the flood... is still active?

...Well I guess I shouldn't be surprised. Sephiran's mantle still worked in PoR, and Altina's “blessing” is still active too, I guess, since Ragnell and Alondite are still unbreakable amazing weapons, so fair enough...

Speaking of blessings though, that means now it's time for us to all equip our best weapons so they can be blessed by Yune and turned into mantle-piercing infinite use weapons just like Ragnell.

Oh shit. Yeah, I fucking love this CG. It's showing Deghinsea breathing fire on some motherfuckers, and Altina's dual-wielding Ragnell and Alondite while riding on Soan the green lion's back.

Ooh, okay, so there's some info conversations. Lemme check these first.

NO WAIT. FIRST OFF, GOTTA TAKE PARAGON OFF KURTHNAGA BEFORE I FORGET.

...Nope, can't do that yet. Fuck. Gotta wait for preparation or something.

Time for these three three-star info conversations.

Ah yes, and now we get the rather awkward element of Micaiah and Sothe's romantic relationship: the fact that Micaiah first met Sothe when he was like seven.

Yeah, this uh... this initial description of their relationship is a bit too “parent/child”-ish for me to not consider their current-day romantic feelings creepy.

Okay, now Ike's talking about the word “branded” like it's a slur, and like... he doesn't even come up with an alternative word, he just says “...Don't use that word. You and Soren are both people. Just like me and everyone else.”

Yeah, no, Ike. It needs a word. And honestly, I don't think changing the word is really the way to go. It's the only word people have for them, and it doesn't have any inherent negative meaning in what the word means (brand is used elsewhere in the series to refer to the mark of people of revered holy blood). The only reason anyone considers it a slur is because it's used by people with contempt, but it's used by people with contempt because people have contempt for the branded. It's that fact that needs to change, not the word.

One thing I do like though is that, even though Micaiah doesn't outright say it, this talk with Ike has basically caused Micaiah to have an internal realization of “Oh. So that's why he can't shut up about you. You really are all that.”

We got an elixir at any rate, then a talk with Sanaki, and...

...Ooooh... Ike's already figured out that Sephiran's in on it.

Sanaki: Do not trouble your mind with that thought! He would never betray me.

Ike: It's nice to think so. But if he's not petrified, he'd have received a message from Yune. So where is he?

Sanaki: The goddess isn't perfect. She said so herself! Maybe the message didn't reach everyone.

Ike: ...You have to admit that's a weak excuse. Let's leave it at that, for now. We need to focus on moving forward.

Anyway, that gave us a pavise scroll, which is... okay I guess? I didn't realize you could get one though, aside from Tibarn's.

...Oh, and a guard scroll. Yeah, not using that.

Anyway, I'm outfitting everyone. I'm giving Ike Ragnell (obviously; I'm not even sure it's possible to not bless it, given that it shows up in the cutscene), Micaiah gets purge, Aran gets the brave lance, Jill gets the brave axe, Mist gets the brave sword, Soren gets my spare blizzard tome, Zihark gets Alondite, Nolan gets Urvan, Sothe gets the peshkatz (The baselard still has plenty of uses and he's not gonna be fighting the final boss), Oscar gets the Wishblade, and Sanaki gets Cymbeline.

And now we get our blessings. On easy mode, this also gives you +5 to every stat, which was super fun back in high school, though honestly kind of ridiculous.

Anyway, now we confront Deghinsea. And... yeah, he's suicidal. He thinks everyone deserves to die and holy fucking shit is this fucker huge.

… No wait... what? They just... radically shrunk him down on the map once we got to the preparation screen.

That's... christ, game, really?

Okay, actually, I decided to remove nullify from Kurthnaga instead of paragon since nullify is useless here. Paragon will still be helpful if he winds up fighting. But since it's implied the entire dragon tribe is here, I kinda wanna do this without committing genocide.

...Yeah, and Nasir and Gareth are by Deghinsea. They don't move, and will join you if they're still alive when the battle is over. Honestly, I wish they actually positioned themselves adjacent to Deghinsea so that there was actually some extra challenge you had to do to recruit them.

Alright, so, I gave Oscar two levels of bonus exp, and now he has exactly as much attack power with the Wishblade as Ike has with Ragnell. He shouldn't need any more than that, because they're just going to go after the weakest link.

Aran's also reached the point where he doesn't need any more bonus exp. He could use some if necessary, but all he has left to level up are magic and resistance. Though granted, resistance is a big deal in the next two chapters...

...Well, we'll be going for the bonus experience here at any rate.

Apparently all my laguz are at max transformation gauge for this map for some reason. Alright, then there's no sense in not bringing them. I'm gonna try and rush the fuck out of this.

...Okay, everyone's at max gauge except Reyson for some reason.

Ena is a red dragon with more magic than strength. Man, that white dragon blood fucked up her genetics but good, didn't it?

Dragons are all ridiculously powerful, so I'm way more concerned about player-phase tactics than usual.

Alright, I used a laguz gem on Reyson, hopefully the only one I'll use this map. I should have more than enough for the rest of the game. I need six uses for the final chapter (Ena, Nasir, Gareth, Janaff, Ulki and Reyson), and before that I need 3 uses for tomorrow (Janaff, Ulki and Reyson). That's nine. I think I actually have enough to spare some uses for some other guys here.

Alright, Deghinsea used his area attack, but... it did nothing. Only Ike and Oscar (who were near the staircase) were even hit, and it did no damage.

Also, the red dragons up top aren't moving. That gives me some time to clear up the sides so we can safely move in without being swarmed.

I just checked, and if my math is right, we have exactly two more laguz gem uses to spare, since we have 11 uses between the two 3-use ones we have and the 5-use one we're getting at the end. I'll use them only in emergencies if they're necessary, just in case my math is wrong.

Ena literally can't do any damage at all to red dragons, her strength is that pathetic.

Wow, as much as it sucks to have Kurthnaga attack his own people while they can't fight back... it's also really hilarious how Kurthnaga's black dragon model is actually smaller than the normal dragons in fight scenes.

Now, this is interesting. Deghinsea and Ashera are two bosses where the sheer scale of what it takes to properly show them on screen requires them to change the combat window entirely. They have to put stats off to the sides. Cool effect.

Anyway, I've started hammering on the guy with everyone I can safely fight him with. For the time being that's only Kurthnaga (who Deghinsea won't attack) and Soren (who has blizzard and can do like 4 damage with it when he's supported with Mist). I have to wait until I can confirm nobody's moving so I can move others in, namely Ena to buff attack power. Given his crazy 30 luck meaning he heals 30 a turn with mantle, I think this will probably take a while. It's Ire that's really a concern. Only people with nihil, or siege tome users, or Kurthnaga, can attack him without risking instant death. That heavily limits my player phase tactics, but it's still enough to work with.

Man, Zihark is amazing with Alondite. He completely wiped the floor with a huge number of white dragons.

Alright, we're down to the last three unnamed dragons. After they're down, we can start sending in Ena.

Okay, sadly, Deghinsea seems to be immune to crits, so having Zihark be the second person fighting him instead of Ike... is not a good idea. But now we have two fighters bolstered by Ena. As long as that aura attack doesn't do anything unpredictably horrible to Reyson or Ena, we should be home free in a matter of turns.

So, Deghinsea comments to Ike that “Our blessings may be equal and opposite...”

Equal. I wasn't under the impression that Yune had that kind of power to do that to a group yet.

Also, apparently Ena was also immune to dragons this whole time, so I had nothing to worry about. Fuck.

And maybe I should've taken dragonfoe off Janaff and put it on Nolan, the only person here who can equip both that and Nihil I think. Especially since Janaff can only barely one-round dragons with the thing because he's still stuck at a low strike level and his talons suck.

Okay, I can beat him this turn assuming nobody misses, and...

...Hello... Reyson can talk to Deghinsea?

...It's a short talk where Reyson asks him to use his power to save people, not condemn them, and then Deghinsea alludes to the time Lehran asked him to do that. But of course, he's unwavering, because he's way too powerful for the game to let us ever have him see reason.

Alright, he's down.

Okay, Deghinsea seems to be expressing surprise that they could beat him with Ashera's blessings, and surprised that Yune is with them, but... he said he already knew that his and Ike's blessings were “equal and opposite”.

Also, if they really are “equal and opposite” blessings...

...How the fuck far into the future is Awakening supposed to take place after Radiant Dawn, that a sword that remained unbreakable and enchanted for centuries, and then got that blessing refreshed to an equal degree, is somehow completely devoid of all divine magic? Of course, the question of how the fuck Priam works is already laughably in question, and hardly the fault of this game, so... moving on.

Deghinsea says that he is the one responsible for rewriting history and slandering Yune as a dark god, “to convince the laguz kings to follow [his] example”. That... I mean, I like this twist that apparently it wasn't actually beorckind's fault, but... how exactly would this make his tale more convincing to other people? The effect is the same, right? Don't start a war or the world ends. What changed?

Wow, uh...

...I can't tell whether to laugh or to feel something at one of Deghinsea's last lines, knowing the rather memetic words that have driven him most of his life:

Deghinsea: Now then, Kurthnaga... Get these men moving. I will remain here, for I cannot move.

And now... that infamous, infamous voiced conversation where Deghinsea refuses to break his non-interference policy to save the laguz slaves, and... sounds like a parody of Henry Kissinger.

“GOLDOA WILL NOT MOVE.”

Honestly though, I agree with Deghinsea's stance in this instance, because at this specific point in time, it's a fucking no-brainer, to the point that this doesn't reflect very well on Lehran that he's arguing against him. The options are literally “let some laguz live as slaves” or “doom all of reality”.

This is only 150 years after the great flood. There are literally no other countries besides Goldoa and Begnion yet (which begs the question of why they thought uniting under one country, when the object was to avoid an all-countries war, was a good idea in the first place). If Goldoa acts to free the slaves, Ashera will wake up. No ifs about it.

That said though... they could do a better job of conveying this to the people who haven't read the out-of-game resources. Like, say, me before I started this playlog.

“HOLD... HOLD, I SAY!”

Oh man, that's still just as cringey as I remember.

...And now Deghinsea is dead, and Kurthnaga magically becomes the new king and gains formshift.

And we got the full 12,000 bonus experience, meaning that I can stop freaking out about using Nolan or Aran.

...In the last two chapters of the game.

...Yaaaaaay.

Anyway, that's it for today. Tomorrow, we'll face down Sephiran, and start the beginning of the end!

Stay safe, everyone!

[Icelerate]

58 minutes ago, Alastor15243 said:

So, Deghinsea comments to Ike that “Our blessings may be equal and opposite...”

Equal. I wasn't under the impression that Yune had that kind of power to do that to a group yet.

Yune gave another blessing to Ike, Sothe and Micaiah prior to the group blessing so it stands to reason his blessing was more powerful than the rest of the group's. Also, have you looked at all the boss quotes in the game? You haven't talked about any of them other than the ones you trigger. 

[Alastor15243]

2 minutes ago, Icelerate said:

Yune gave another blessing to Ike, Sothe and Micaiah prior to the group blessing so it stands to reason his blessing was more powerful than the rest of the group's. Also, have you looked at all the boss quotes in the game? You haven't talked about any of them other than the ones you trigger. 

No, I haven't really, unless my curiosity is piqued. Which generally didn't happen in this game as much as it did in Path of Radiance.

Edited September 30, 2020 by Alastor15243

[Icelerate]

6 minutes ago, Alastor15243 said:

No, I haven't really, unless my curiosity is piqued. Which generally didn't happen in this game as much as it did in Path of Radiance.

The inverse is true for me. 

[Eltosian Kadath]

3 hours ago, Alastor15243 said:

Or are laguz races just fundamentally incapable of recognizing more than one ruler for their entire race at any given time? I mean Ulki said stuff that, while it doesn't outright say anything like that, definitely puts me in that direction of thought at least.

I will point out that the Bird Tribe used to be a single kingdom, with a single king, until the Ravens broke off from the Hawks to found their own kingdom.

 

3 hours ago, Alastor15243 said:

It's Ire that's really a concern. Only people with nihil, or siege tome users, or Kurthnaga, can attack him without risking instant death. That heavily limits my player phase tactics, but it's still enough to work with.

If I remember correctly Ire only activates at 1 ranges, so there are a lot more "safe" player phase options.

 

2 hours ago, Alastor15243 said:

No, I haven't really, unless my curiosity is piqued. Which generally didn't happen in this game as much as it did in Path of Radiance.

If you want some suggestions on endgame Boss convos to read

Naesala x Lekain adds more esoteric "rules" to the Blood Pact

Astrid x Lekain is interesting if you don't already know what it reveals

Haar x Levail is a fascinating glimpse of Haar's past

Nailah x Dheginsea adds a curious fact about how the Branded are treated in Hatari into the game

 

Sanaki x Sephiran is rather touching

Oliver x Sephiran is down right hilarious

Reyson x Sephiran and Leane x Sephiran has some interesting commentary on how the Heron clan has changed

Nailah x Sephiran implies Sephiram didn't know about Hatari...

Kurthnaga x Ashera is the only one of the goddess conversation I ever thought was interesting.

[Alastor15243]

1 hour ago, Eltosian Kadath said:

I will point out that the Bird Tribe used to be a single kingdom, with a single king, until the Ravens broke off from the Hawks to found their own kingdom.

 

If I remember correctly Ire only activates at 1 ranges, so there are a lot more "safe" player phase options.

 

If you want some suggestions on endgame Boss convos to read

Naesala x Lekain adds more esoteric "rules" to the Blood Pact

Astrid x Lekain is interesting if you don't already know what it reveals

Haar x Levail is a fascinating glimpse of Haar's past

Nailah x Dheginsea adds a curious fact about how the Branded are treated in Hatari into the game

 

Sanaki x Sephiran is rather touching

Oliver x Sephiran is down right hilarious

Reyson x Sephiran and Leane x Sephiran has some interesting commentary on how the Heron clan has changed

Nailah x Sephiran implies Sephiram didn't know about Hatari...

Kurthnaga x Ashera is the only one of the goddess conversation I ever thought was interesting.

I checked out the ones I've already killed on your list. They were nice, but apart from the utter absurdity that Naesala and Lekain's adds to the list... I can't think of much new to talk about in the playlog from them.

[Jotari]

7 hours ago, Alastor15243 said:

What exactly was their plan if they got invaded? Like, they act like as long as they stay neutral the pact will never be broken, but eventually someone with thoughts of world conquest would eventually come to them. And then what? Is the plan to not fight back? To play heron and let themselves get genocided for the sake of the world? Yeah, I doubt that given what Nasir said about the dragons' violent nature.

 

I take it the logic is that Goldoa is A) Mostly barren uncultivated land that's not worth invading and B) Goldoa is just far too powerful for anyone to seriously ever consider invading. Granted we do manage to fight what might be the entirety of Goldoa here, but Deghensea is the only one with a blessing while all of our troops are rocking blessed weaponry.

7 hours ago, Alastor15243 said:

Yeah, no, Ike. It needs a word. And honestly, I don't think changing the word is really the way to go. It's the only word people have for them, and it doesn't have any inherent negative meaning in what the word means (brand is used elsewhere in the series to refer to the mark of people of revered holy blood). The only reason anyone considers it a slur is because it's used by people with contempt, but it's used by people with contempt because people have contempt for the branded. It's that fact that needs to change, not the word.

 

Maybe Ike prefers the term parentless? You can legitimately say this about any slur. Getting all worked up over words instead of intention is bullshit in pretty much any case imo.

7 hours ago, Alastor15243 said:

Honestly though, I agree with Deghinsea's stance in this instance, because at this specific point in time, it's a fucking no-brainer, to the point that this doesn't reflect very well on Lehran that he's arguing against him. The options are literally “let some laguz live as slaves” or “doom all of reality”.

This is only 150 years after the great flood. There are literally no other countries besides Goldoa and Begnion yet (which begs the question of why they thought uniting under one country, when the object was to avoid an all-countries war, was a good idea in the first place). If Goldoa acts to free the slaves, Ashera will wake up. No ifs about it.

That said though... they could do a better job of conveying this to the people who haven't read the out-of-game resources. Like, say, me before I started this playlog.

 

What out of game resource are you alluding to? Just the timeline or is there anything out of game that explicitly says it needs to be "All the countries". Because the implication to me from the big pulsing number going up is that it's more to do with the level of bloodshed occurring in the war at any given time. Which albeit does have some issues with that previous laguz slavery war which went on for over a decade (I don't take Path of Radiance not awakening Yune as much of an issue as I see it a combined factor along with the Daein occupation, it's been continuous fighting and dying for quite some time). Basing it on countries is just too weird with way too many conditionals and obfuscating points. If they'd just made some sovereign Monaco sized nation somewhere that was too small to ever fight then things would be safe for ever. Of course as we've stated previously in this playthrough the setting does somehow have some magical concept of a country with blood pacts and formshift, still it's just a weird way to go about things. All anyone ever says is that the chaos of war (or in the original Japanese, enough bad juju) will awaken Yune, so I still see it as an extrapolation to say its based on countries, and I think the only reason anyone does is because of Hatari's introduction. If it were just a literal (everyone is fighting), then it would have started on turn 1 of end game or as soon as Kurthnaga blew up the castle instead of specifically taking place when enough units have been killed. Also if anyone is entitlted to know the inner workings of this system it is Lehran, and I don't think we're meant to view him as such a stupid character that he would accidently end existence by goading Goldoa into fight Begnion when they're the only two countries left. If Sephiran thinks a war can both free the laguz and not unleash Yune then I'm willing to believe it's possible (while also agreeing with Deghensea that while possible, it's also too risky and would set bad precedent).

Though I'm not sure if Lehran argues it on screen, but one of the conditions Ashera also says for the apocalypses is "if one tribe bathes in glory while the other suffers oppression", so by not doing anything they could be risking judgement day anyway. That line also furthers my belief that the whole issue is based on the general scale of death and suffering rather than litigious international technicalities.

  

7 hours ago, Alastor15243 said:

 

Okay, so, Yune starts telling a story “from long ago, long before the grandparents of anyone here were born”.

Given that Kurthnaga is present, and is required to be present for the story, and his father was alive during the flood and is still alive now, this better not be just talking about what led up to the flood.

...No, this is talking about the very beginning of the world. Fair enough.

 

So does this line strike anyone else as somewhat hilarious? It's like Yune's so childlike the only way she can convey that something happened a long time ago is to specify that it's before everyone's grandparents are born. Kurthnaga's ancient ass daddy aside, it's a bit of an understatement considering we're talking about the oirigin of creation!

 

Edited October 1, 2020 by Jotari

[Alastor15243]

33 minutes ago, Jotari said:

So does this line strike anyone else as somewhat hilarious? It's like Yune's so childlike the only way she can convey that something happened a long time ago is to specify that it's before everyone's grandparents are born. Kurthnaga's ancient ass daddy aside, it's a bit of an understatement considering we're talking about the oirigin of creation!

 

Yeah, that is in fact classic Yune in a way. I honestly wish Heroes didn't give her such an adult voice. It doesn't suit her Radiant Dawn lines.

 

33 minutes ago, Jotari said:

What out of game resource are you alluding to? Just the timeline or is there anything out of game that explicitly says it needs to be "All the countries".

The timeline. They make it pretty clear in-game that it refers to all the countries in the sense that "the world shall not war".

Edited October 1, 2020 by Alastor15243

[Jotari]

18 minutes ago, Alastor15243 said:

Yeah, that is in fact classic Yune in a way. I honestly wish Heroes didn't give her such an adult voice. It doesn't suit her Radiant Dawn lines.

 

The timeline. They make it pretty clear in-game that it refers to all the countries in the sense that "the world shall not war".

I don't really take "the world shall not war" to mean "the world shall not engage in a war in which every recognized sovereign entity plays some role, be that two states or two hundred."

[Alastor15243]

2 minutes ago, Jotari said:

I don't really take "the world shall not war" to mean "the world shall not engage in a war in which every recognized sovereign entity plays some role, be that two states or two hundred."

Do you think it's a coincidence then that every single country, or at least royalty representing it, wound up fighting in the war that ultimately threatened to wake her up?

[Jotari]

2 hours ago, Alastor15243 said:

Do you think it's a coincidence then that every single country, or at least royalty representing it, wound up fighting in the war that ultimately threatened to wake her up?

I think less coincidence and more thematic completion of the idea. In the base conversation just before the end game Nasir says this.

If the war had ended any later… Had Ike not killed Ashnard… Goldoa would have joined the war. And we would have started killing. We would have destroyed the Daein army, its coconspirators, everyone. We would not have stopped until the continent was ashes. Then the spirit of chaos would have spread across Tellius, awakening the goddess and destroying the dragon tribe. That was the danger we faced in the Mad King’s War.

But even if those events had happened and Deghensea went on a rampage, it wouldn't have made any difference regarding awakening the goddess(es). Deghensea could have killed as much as he wanted and it wouldn't affect Ashera and Yune at all unless Nailah showed up to join the party. Yet it's clear that this is being presented as a situation that would have woken the goddesses up. The only explanation is that at this point Nasir still doesn't know about Hatari and Ena and Kurthnaga are just too polite to point out that it wouldn't have made a difference, but in terms of story telling that's absolutely antithetical. This is a moment taking place after the actual awakening we see, so there's no use in hiding details or mechanics. Unless Hatari just doesn't count in which case it also wouldn't have counted in Part 3 End game where there's even less Goldoa representation than in the previous war. I think every mention of the awakening just refers to chaos and war being wide spread, there's never any mention of it including nations or leaders specifically.

[Interdimensional Observer]

10 hours ago, Jotari said:

I think every mention of the awakening just refers to chaos and war being wide spread, there's never any mention of it including nations or leaders specifically.

Yes, I'd say the same. IS wanted every nation represented for the medallion-break moment because thats cool, but all you really needed was a massive quantity of chaos. The whole "all the nations must not war" bit could be said to stand in for "do generate an enormous amount of chaotic energy", because what else besides a true world war could produce that much chaos?

-You'd have to hope that was the case. Because nations, countries, peoples, are human constructs. If Micaiah suddenly proclaimed "I hereby found the country of Dawnia, anyone in my army is a Dawnian, anyone who isn't is not", would that have stopped the medallion-break? Because that would mean Daein would still exist but is not represented at 3-F.

[Icelerate]

I think the only thing that matters is how much chaos was generated, not that every single country is at war. Under the logic that every single country is at war, than if Tellius was unified under one leader, any civil war would count as all the countries being at war which is absurd even if the civil war wasn't very intense. 

Nailah and Kurthnaga being the ones to cause the apocalypse is just a meme when they didn't even bring an army with them. 

44 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

-You'd have to hope that was the case. Because nations, countries, peoples, are human constructs. If Micaiah suddenly proclaimed "I hereby found the country of Dawnia, anyone in my army is a Dawnian, anyone who isn't is not", would that have stopped the medallion-break? Because that would mean Daein would still exist but is not represented at 3-F.

The more interesting question is, whether the blood pact would effect Dawnia.

Edited October 1, 2020 by Icelerate

[Interdimensional Observer]

12 minutes ago, Icelerate said:

The more interesting question is, whether the blood pact would effect Dawnia.

I had exactly that in mind too. I think the Blood Pact, considering it is directly made with a country's ruler, is unmistakably caught up in the idea of human polities, and thats not good for it.