Alastor plays and ranks the whole series! Mission Complete! ...For now.

[Boomhauer007]

8 minutes ago, Alastor15243 said:

You never got Asbel? Oh wow. My infinite condolences. Glad you're enjoying my backlog! Did the new table of contents help with that?

Nope, Leif and his light brand was my only magical damage until Olwen, so he level capped in whichever chapter was the "In America" chapter. 

Tbh I probably wouldn't have looked without it, Thracia in particular is dead smack in the middle somewhere, so it was a game changer. 

[Alastor15243]

Just now, Boomhauer007 said:

Nope, Leif and his light brand was my only magical damage until Olwen, so he level capped in whichever chapter was the "In America" chapter. 

Tbh I probably wouldn't have looked without it, Thracia in particular is dead smack in the middle somewhere, so it was a game changer. 

Well that basically confirms my hunch.

 

[Jotari]

2 hours ago, Alastor15243 said:

That bridge with all of the "pitfalls" is, for reasons you might be able to guess, sometimes referred to as "Mekkah's Bridge".

The thing there is that not everybody knows (or cares) who Mekkah is. I know he's a Fire Emblem youtuber and that's literally it.

Edited May 16, 2020 by Jotari

[Alastor15243]

5 hours ago, Jotari said:

The thing there is that not everybody knows (or cares) who Mekkah is. I know he's a Fire Emblem youtuber and that's literally it.

Ooooh. Sorry. He's got this series on YouTube where he talks about "pitfalls" or things that beginner players do that they think are smart but actually aren't according to him. I don't agree with all of them, especially not for a blind playthrough, but yeah. Hence why he's associated with pitfalls.

[AnonymousSpeed]

13 hours ago, Alastor15243 said:

Ooooh. Sorry. He's got this series on YouTube where he talks about "pitfalls" or things that beginner players do that they think are smart but actually aren't according to him. I don't agree with all of them, especially not for a blind playthrough, but yeah. Hence why he's associated with pitfalls.

Just admit that early promotion >>>>> level 20 promotion my guy

The funny thing about pitfalls is that I don't think a truly new player would actually fall into them.
Ideas like "Jeigans steal experience" are something you'd only reach with improper overthinking and they then propagated through the late 2000s internet.

[Alastor15243]

14 minutes ago, AnonymousSpeed said:

Just admit that early promotion >>>>> level 20 promotion my guy.

That's not the only one I disagree with. Most of the issue I have is how much the rules vary in practicality by game, and how much a lot of these rules wouldn't be very wise to follow on a blind run. For example: sure, not worrying about keeping your team diverse is great... if you already know what classes are good. But if you're playing blind, diversity is important to make sure you have as many tools as possible to deal with various situations. Imagine focusing all on one build and that build turns out to be trash.

Edited May 17, 2020 by Alastor15243

[Shadow Mir]

1 hour ago, AnonymousSpeed said:

Just admit that early promotion >>>>> level 20 promotion my guy

 

That's only true in the pre-GBA games, imo. Anyway, I have to agree that some of these rules would be unwise to follow on a blind run.

[Jotari]

3 hours ago, AnonymousSpeed said:

Just admit that early promotion >>>>> level 20 promotion my guy

The funny thing about pitfalls is that I don't think a truly new player would actually fall into them.
Ideas like "Jeigans steal experience" are something you'd only reach with improper overthinking and they then propagated through the late 2000s internet.

I'm not sure about that. I remember basically never using Sothe when playing through Radiant Dawn (my first game in the series) for this exact reason without doing any internet research. I think people generally like to maximize everything they can, thus avoid wasting exp on promoted units and always promote at the latest possible point for the maximum gains. Now wether it really is a pitfall is questionable, but it is something I think a lot of new players would naturally trend towards, along with resetting whenever anyone dies.

[Hello72207]

1 hour ago, Shadow Mir said:

3 hours ago, AnonymousSpeed said:

Just admit that early promotion >>>>> level 20 promotion my guy

 

That's only true in the pre-GBA games, imo.

Not necesarily.

In games like FE1, it is very reasonable to promote at level 20 due to xp never slowing down and promotion meaning almost nothing.

In Thracia 776, early promotion is very reasonable due to very low caps.

In HHM, xp gain gets slowed dramatically and early promotion at 14-15 is reasonable.

Sacred stones promotions at level 15 is reasonable due to the game being shorter and easier.

FE6 early promotion can help.

I usually just promote when xp gain slows.

Edited May 17, 2020 by Hello72207

[Jotari]

2 hours ago, Hello72207 said:

Not necesarily.

In games like FE1, it is very reasonable to promote at level 20 due to xp never slowing down and promotion meaning almost nothing.

In Thracia 776, early promotion is very reasonable due to very low caps.

In HHM, xp gain gets slowed dramatically and early promotion at 14-15 is reasonable.

Sacred stones promotions at level 15 is reasonable due to the game being shorter and easier.

FE6 early promotion can help.

I usually just promote when xp gain slows.

I've played through the original Shadow Dragon just once, but if I do ever play it again I think I will definitely be doing early promotion. As I did late promotion on that first run and most of my units had capped every stat long before hitting 20/20 due to a combination of the caps being very low and stat boosters being ridiculously useful. Some units are literally strong enough to contribute in endgame without promoting, because they literally can't. In that way promotion in the first game more resembles Shadows of Valentia's overclasses than anything else, in that they're over kill by providing so many extra levels beyond what's needed. Getting into that earlier for the extra movement sounds wise if they're going to end the game with 20 in all stats regardless. 

Edited May 17, 2020 by Jotari

[Alastor15243]

So, apparently there's a NEW new patch for Thracia, one that adds a shitton of QOL features including, among other things, the ability to control unit placement.

That's awesome, but also a bit awkward for me. I made a point not to use fan patches for gameplay stuff, because I'm ranking the original games. But as a result, a lot of what I said to mark Thracia down in some areas is... useless? To basically everyone?

So what the hell kind of list have I even made?

[The Roger The Paladin]

8 minutes ago, Alastor15243 said:

So, apparently there's a NEW new patch for Thracia, one that adds a shitton of QOL features including, among other things, the ability to control unit placement.

That's awesome, but also a bit awkward for me. I made a point not to use fan patches for gameplay stuff, because I'm ranking the original games. But as a result, a lot of what I said to mark Thracia down in some areas is... useless? To basically everyone?

So what the hell kind of list have I even made?

It's not. I tend not to like to use patches for QOL because I'm a purist. I know that's not going to apply to everyone, but I'd like to reassure you that this list is still of use for me.

[Jotari]

58 minutes ago, Alastor15243 said:

So, apparently there's a NEW new patch for Thracia, one that adds a shitton of QOL features including, among other things, the ability to control unit placement.

That's awesome, but also a bit awkward for me. I made a point not to use fan patches for gameplay stuff, because I'm ranking the original games. But as a result, a lot of what I said to mark Thracia down in some areas is... useless? To basically everyone?

So what the hell kind of list have I even made?

Being able to reposition units actually conflicts with a hell of a lot of Thracia's design, particularly around the time of Leif's promotion where you have several maps in a row where your army is split and you just need to deal with that fact. The most flaring one being the map immediately following his promotion which can be cheesed immediately by just minimum deploying and putting no one escaping from the army down south. Not being able to specify deployment is frustrating, but it is an element of the game, simply removing it isn't a quality of life change, it's actively changing how maps are designed to be played.

[Alastor15243]

35 minutes ago, Jotari said:

Being able to reposition units actually conflicts with a hell of a lot of Thracia's design, particularly around the time of Leif's promotion where you have several maps in a row where your army is split and you just need to deal with that fact. The most flaring one being the map immediately following his promotion which can be cheesed immediately by just minimum deploying and putting no one escaping from the army down south. Not being able to specify deployment is frustrating, but it is an element of the game, simply removing it isn't a quality of life change, it's actively changing how maps are designed to be played.

Depends on how it's implemented. If you can simply change the order like in Gaiden but can't just flat-out FE6-and-beyond reposition, I think the way map slots work would still force you to deploy units at the back. I'll have to see it in action. I only heard about it from Mangs' video.

1 hour ago, The Roger The Paladin said:

It's not. I tend not to like to use patches for QOL because I'm a purist. I know that's not going to apply to everyone, but I'd like to reassure you that this list is still of use for me.

Well, thank you for that.

[AnonymousSpeed]

13 hours ago, Shadow Mir said:

That's only true in the pre-GBA games, imo.

 

11 hours ago, Hello72207 said:

Not necesarily.

In Genealogy you literally cannot promote before level 20.

[Boomhauer007]

9 hours ago, Alastor15243 said:

So, apparently there's a NEW new patch for Thracia, one that adds a shitton of QOL features including, among other things, the ability to control unit placement.

That's awesome, but also a bit awkward for me. I made a point not to use fan patches for gameplay stuff, because I'm ranking the original games. But as a result, a lot of what I said to mark Thracia down in some areas is... useless? To basically everyone?

So what the hell kind of list have I even made?

Yeah it's there, saw last week or so when I installed exile. Just got to ch21, unit position control would feel like a casual mode. Part of the fun of chapter 19 was figuring out how to get the units and civilians from the bottom of the map while minimizing rescue staff uses, and 20 was fine despite all of my healers uselessly spawning on the right side. 

That said, just like real casual mode, if it gets more people to try the game then I'm certainly not complaining. 

[Eltosian Kadath]

23 hours ago, Alastor15243 said:

So, apparently there's a NEW new patch for Thracia, one that adds a shitton of QOL features including, among other things, the ability to control unit placement.

That's awesome, but also a bit awkward for me. I made a point not to use fan patches for gameplay stuff, because I'm ranking the original games. But as a result, a lot of what I said to mark Thracia down in some areas is... useless? To basically everyone?

So what the hell kind of list have I even made?

A few of the more prominent ones, specifically the Weapon Level, HP bars, and the ability to control unit placement are optional. The only one of the non-optional one I have a particular issue with being the displaying of guard AI. That being said the way the Lil' Manster translation has been slowly making the script blander (plus whatever issues the one writing the translation notes has with rural people) has turned me off the translation enough to stick with the Project Exile translation.

Edited May 18, 2020 by Eltosian Kadath

[Alastor15243]

2 minutes ago, Eltosian Kadath said:

A few of the more prominent ones, specifically the Weapon Level, HP bars, and the ability to control unit placement are optional. The only one of the non-optional one I have a particular issue with being the displaying of guard AI. That being said the way the Lil' Manster translation has been slowly making the script blander (plus whatever issues the one writing the translation notes has with rural people) has turned me off the translation enough to stick with the Project Exile translation.

Hm? Issues with rural people? Now you've got me curious.

Also, I'm curious why you take issue with displaying guard AI.

[Jotari]

47 minutes ago, Alastor15243 said:

Hm? Issues with rural people? Now you've got me curious.

Also, I'm curious why you take issue with displaying guard AI.

I'd kind of like a bit more detail on all the new features. Though perhaps this isn't really the place for it.

[Eltosian Kadath]

4 minutes ago, Alastor15243 said:

Hm? Issues with rural people? Now you've got me curious.

I may be reading a little too much into the comments (hence the ()). The most egregious one is a big part of the justification for Asbel not having a rural accent is due to him being educated. People from rural areas can be educated; the note even baffling references going to study in the big city, implying rural speech patterns, and mannerisms melt away as soon as they are educated, as if ignorance was their source. That sorta painted a few of the translation notes in a new light, like the justification for some turns of phrases, and references that have more rural feels or connotations to them being scrubbed with notes that I felt were already strangely phrased (I will add that the way the note about Asbel's speech was placed like a header lead to me reading it far latter than where it was placed in the translation notes). The first example of this I see looking over the translation notes being a justification for cutting a line about Ronan shooting bottles, with it being described as first a liberty, and as inconsistent with him being called a huntsman in the epilogue, which is hard not to read as willfully ignorant (given how often its depicted in media) to it referencing how many who grew up in rural communities learned to shoot before going out into the woods to hunt. I could go through others, but I would rather not. I don't know why I always bother to read through the new translation noted when they arrive when I know its just going to bother me.

 

34 minutes ago, Alastor15243 said:

Also, I'm curious why you take issue with displaying guard AI.

It will noticeably change how an informed player would play the game, which is treading enough into changing the game that I would rather it be optional. The other non-optional changes add information that could be easily looked up by an informed player, either by paying attention to stats and calculations, or from trivial to find online sources. AI behavior isn't well documented, and can rarely be looked up, and understanding it has a profound impact on how you will play the game.

 

4 minutes ago, Jotari said:

I'd kind of like a bit more detail on all the new features. Though perhaps this isn't really the place for it.

You could just read through the changelog, as the translation is very well documented. The displaying of Guard AI is the phrase being used to describe enemies that don't move displaying that they will not move when you check their movement.

[Alastor15243]

Sacred Stones Day 16: Chapter 11EIR

Alright, back to the Eirika timeline where Joshua, Kyle, Natasha and Moulder are all still alive.

Oh, wow. While Ewan's a bit of a brat here, I like this scene where Innes manages to use his intelligence, and not his spy network, to reveal in a pretty cool and dramatic way that the nearby fort is crawling with monsters. I'm kind of reminded of a scene I really, really like in FE9.

Tethys tells Ewan to retreat, but given that he's already blue... yeah, I doubt that's going to take.

But here's L'arachel and Dozla, right on cue, doing their thing deep in enemy territory, requiring their immediate rescue. Probably. This is Eirika route, but I'm not taking any chances after Friday.

My Lute has managed to surpass my Seth in literally every stat except for defense... which thanks to her insane growth luck and those two dragonshields, is equal. That is... well, I love mageknights, so this is pretty damned fun. They just get better with each passing game.

In hindsight, it was pretty dumb of me to not bring Gilliam to the last Ephraim chapter. It would've made a perfect run harder, but given that this is an ironman and I was warned the chapter was nasty in some not-yet-determined way, it might have been nice to bring someone to hopefully take a hit for Natasha, or to be better bait than Moulder.

Ambush from the rear, but thankfully it's just revenants. Four move, weak, I don't think anyone's scared of getting trapped by them. I think I'm gonna have Colm fight them, just to make him better at stealing. He'll keep moving 3-4 spaces back to pull in two enemies at a time, and he should get some good training.

And then the game has a borderline ambush spawn where a bunch of enemies unlock a door right as I approach it, which... feels intentional.

I love L'arachel's chat with Dozla once you recruit them though. I honestly wanna see their supports now. And given how long on recruitment slots I am on the main file at the moment... might as well deploy a prepromote!

...Looks like those key-holding skeletons (...guess you could call them... skeleton keys...) were in fact not ambush spawns. I just had bad luck, given that one of them just unlocked a door a good deal ahead of me, which I saw thanks to a torch staff. They're here to take the treasure, which explains the chest key I picked up from one of them. Unfortunately, one of them is going to get to the treasure before I can kill them, which will cost me a chest key, something I've been trying to save up for the outrageous event that a map seems too dangerous to bring my thieves onto.

Or when just wanna get a map done faster.

Anyway, I just realized I completely forgot I have Tethys now. I'm still lugging around Gilliam (which made me think to bring him up earlier) when I could have brought Innes, Tethys or Gerik.

That was... quick.

Map's over. It barely took me an hour, writeup included. This is easily the easiest fog of war chapter so far, though granted that's mostly because it's the only one so far where someone hasn't died.

Actually, I just realized I guessed wrong about Ewan becoming playable this chapter. Curious. I wonder why he wasn't green then.

Now for the ending cutscene and waaaaait... this is... the first time L'arachel has heard Eirika's name?

...Oh, looks like I misremembered the counterpart conversation in Ephraim's route. Never mind. Carry on, game.

So then we meet Saleh, and either Eirika hasn't gathered that Saleh was looking for Myrrh, or she hasn't thought to bring up that the girl's been found. I have to assume it's the latter, due to the whole “noticing the specific shade of purple her hair is” thing I mentioned during the pre-split interlude.

And now here's Glen.

Y'know, I initially thought this scene, and the subsequent one where Valter frames Eirika for Glen's murder, meant that Cormag was an Ephraim-route-exclusive character. I didn't realize I only didn't get Cormag because I did the chapter he shows up in too quickly.

I did it too quickly.

As a child.

Yeah, that... That's making me wonder exactly how long you have to wait around.

Hm. Curious contrast between Eirika and Lyn's personalities. Here, when accused of massacring everyone in Port Kris as a rebel army leader, Eirika is flustered and can barely say anything of substance in her defense, and Innes has to butt in to call out how asinine the accusation is. Meanwhile, Lyn, when faced with someone similarly misled to believe that Lyn was a criminal, the scene was practically backwards, with Kent and Sain talking to him first, and then Lyn butting in to face her accuser head on and call the accusations nonsense.

Iiiiiiiinteresting! I think I just got my answer for where Tirado came from! Valter originally was a member of the Imperial Three! I have to assume that's when Valter first got Tirado as his second-in-command. That explains the weird combination of an implied long history with Valter and yet a professional, military demeanor that Tirado had.

Oh shit.

Wow.

While the ridiculously one-sided nature of that fight was kind of dumb given how powerful Glen is supposed to be, the moment where Valter sicced his two accompanying wyvern riders on Glen's... that was creepy.

But at any rate, that's the end of the chapter today. Tomorrow it's back to Ephraim route, to do the immediate follow-up chapter to the phantom ship. See you then!

Stay safe, everyone!

[Benice]

1 hour ago, Alastor15243 said:

Yeah, that... That's making me wonder exactly how long you have to wait around

Turn 6, IIRC. Which is about the time it takes to reach and defeat the boss in my experience. (Buuuuuut I also really suck, so that's not a good measure of time.)

1 hour ago, Alastor15243 said:

to do the immediate follow-up chapter to the phantom ship. See you then!

I'd say that this chapter is underwhelming compared to Phantom ship, but there is some enemies placed in trickier spots. Man, if Sacred Stones had enemies that were closer to Binding Blade's it would have been even better, since the enemies are generally placed well in many of the maps; they gave up and started to enemy spam on the last few maps, (SERIOUSLY? A SIX MAGIC DRUID IN CHAPTER 17?!) but I should try to play through it with buffed enemies.

[Miacis]

Lots of misinformation about Lil' Manster going around in this thread, huh... All right, let me address some of these.

---

No worries, Unit Re-positioning is optional and clearly intended for replays and casual playthroughs. The ReadMe even specifically mentions that it will alter the gameplay and difficulty.

On 5/17/2020 at 4:38 PM, Alastor15243 said:

Depends on how it's implemented. If you can simply change the order like in Gaiden but can't just flat-out FE6-and-beyond reposition, I think the way map slots work would still force you to deploy units at the back. I'll have to see it in action. I only heard about it from Mangs' video.

There's two patches, actually. One does the first thing you describe, the other does the second.

On 5/17/2020 at 4:01 PM, Jotari said:

The most flaring one being the map immediately following his promotion which can be cheesed immediately by just minimum deploying and putting no one escaping from the army down south. Not being able to specify deployment is frustrating, but it is an element of the game, simply removing it isn't a quality of life change, it's actively changing how maps are designed to be played.

Aha, but Thracia is smarter than that! Even with the Rearrange patch, you can't do that.

First, you can't deploy in empty slots, only swap characters slots. So, if you only bring 5 units out of 10, you won't be able to put anyone in slot 6. Chapter 19 alternates slots between the north and south, and slot 1 is in the south, so it's literally impossible to have nobody in the south (unless Leif is the only unit in your army). Every map that splits your army does the alternating slots thing, so you can never just ignore one side. Thracia's thought of everything!

Second, the minimum deployment in ch19 is 16 out of 20. So unless your army's numbers are below that, you'll always have at least 8 people in the south.

I mean, it does make the map easier to have all your cavalry down there for sure, but you can't just have everyone escape on turn one.... not without using up resources, at least.

---------

1 hour ago, Eltosian Kadath said:

The most egregious one is a big part of the justification for Asbel not having a rural accent is due to him being educated. People from rural areas can be educated; the note even baffling references going to study in the big city, implying rural speech patterns, and mannerisms melt away as soon as they are educated, as if ignorance was their source.

Rural speech patterns do become less apparent when spending a lot of time away from their rural community, which, for Asbel, has been 6 years, more than a third of his life. And that time was spent in the company of nobles and scholars, not street rats. These mannerisms do tend to come back when reconnecting with one's rural community, but considering Asbel only ever adresses Ced and Leif in this game, and Munster is far from rural, I would argue that no, Asbel would likely not go back to his old speech pattern when talking with them.

For the record, I myself come from a tiny village, in a part of France with a very distinct accent (Catalan), so I certainly don't have anything against rural accents or people. But I do stand by my argument about how a strange amount of playable characters in the Munster arc are given rural accents despite Munser being very urban. Consider Halvan or Tanya's background, and ask yourself why they should have neutral English speech whereas knights from the big city would be speaking like farmers.

1 hour ago, Eltosian Kadath said:

The first example of this I see looking over the translation notes being a justification for cutting a line about Ronan shooting bottles, with it being described as first a liberty, and as inconsistent with him being called a huntsman in the epilogue, which is hard not to read as willfully ignorant (given how often its depicted in media) to it referencing how many who grew up in rural communities learned to shoot before going out into the woods to hunt.

I'm not sure I fully understand your argument there. Did you misunderstand the revision notes...?

In PE's translation, Ronan claims that some meager bottles-off-of-fenceposts training makes him good enough with a bow. If the kid's been hunting wild animals for years, I don't see how that would be relevant. He's good enough with a bow because he's been practicing with live targets, not bottles.

Imagine how silly it'd be if Ogma came to Caeda and told her "hey m'am, I'm real good with a sword, I been beating training dummies for years now".

1 hour ago, Eltosian Kadath said:

It will noticeably change how an informed player would play the game, which is treading enough into changing the game that I would rather it be optional. The other non-optional changes add information that could be easily looked up by an informed player, either by paying attention to stats and calculations, or from trivial to find online sources. AI behavior isn't well documented, and can rarely be looked up, and understanding it has a profound impact on how you will play the game.

I would argue that the state of fan documentation in 2020 has little to do with the design direction that was taken in 1999. If enemy AI had been thoroughly documented by the community, instead of, say, scroll bonuses, would you be okay with it? Ultimately, as long as the player is able to make informed decisions, whether the information came from the game itself or outside resources produces the same results. Except one keeps you within the confines of the game, and the other takes you completely out of it and into a meta-space, lurking with possible spoilers.

I dunno, just seems like making things less immersive for the player overall.

2 hours ago, Eltosian Kadath said:

That being said the way the Lil' Manster translation has been slowly making the script blander

I will fully admit that I am no writer, just an editor. Cirosan, for all his faults and poor understanding of Japanese, had a pretty good writing hand that we all found difficult to emulate.

However, I do find it a bit concerning that our edits would be so atrociously written that a script that's so often demonstrably false would be a better option.

Edited May 18, 2020 by Miacis
Rephrased everything, because I was way too grumpy when I initially wrote that. Sorry.

[Shadow Mir]

1 hour ago, Alastor15243 said:

Y'know, I initially thought this scene, and the subsequent one where Valter frames Eirika for Glen's murder, meant that Cormag was an Ephraim-route-exclusive character. I didn't realize I only didn't get Cormag because I did the chapter he shows up in too quickly.

I did it too quickly.

As a child.

Yeah, that... That's making me wonder exactly how long you have to wait around.

I think Cormag shows up after turn 4 is over.

[Hello72207]

2 hours ago, Alastor15243 said:

love L'arachel's chat with Dozla once you recruit them though. I honestly wanna see their supports now. And given how long on recruitment slots I am on the main file at the moment... might as well deploy a prepromote!

But a prepromote with 8 speed and not much of a growth in it isn't very helpful.

ehh

he can still double some things.

and he has an A in axes

but whatever.