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Alastor plays and ranks the whole series! Mission Complete! ...For now.


Alastor15243
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Oh shit. I just realized.

Artur.

Joshua.

Kyle.

Natasha.

Moulder.

Knoll.

Colm.

That's 7 deaths. I am getting way closer to the "half the chapter number" limit for my ironman than I am remotely comfortable with.

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Re: Sacred Stone's budget, bear in mind they were making Path of Radiance, their first real attempt at a 3D game, simultaneously. So it is possible that Sacred Stones actually had a relatively small budget compared to the other GBA games.

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Just now, Jotari said:

Re: Sacred Stone's budget, bear in mind they were making Path of Radiance, their first real attempt at a 3D game, simultaneously. So it is possible that Sacred Stones actually had a relatively small budget compared to the other GBA games.

Yeah, Interdimensional Observer brought that up a few posts back.

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12 minutes ago, Alastor15243 said:

Yeah, Interdimensional Observer brought that up a few posts back.

I have since read and noticed how basic and unoriginal my thought process is. It happened to me with that Innes spy network comment on the last chapter too. Curse you people reading things faster than I do!

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2 hours ago, Jotari said:

I have since read and noticed how basic and unoriginal my thought process is. It happened to me with that Innes spy network comment on the last chapter too. Curse you people reading things faster than I do!

Don't sell yourself short, your feedback is always appreciated here!

Anyway...

...The further I get into this marathon, the more the minor details from the earliest games in the series start to slip from my mind. That has caused me to be increasingly concerned that the the rankings are going to become less accurate as time goes on. So I'm thinking what I'm going to do... is binge my own thread over the weekend. Try to read what I wrote about some of the earlier games in the marathon to make sure I'm not forgetting anything crucial when ranking these.

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9 hours ago, Alastor15243 said:

Honestly though, speaking of Lyon's teleportation... that raises... questions, shall we say.

He has the rewarp staff. It all makes since, and he just loans it to Riev.

9 hours ago, Alastor15243 said:

...Well. Serves me right for running my mouth about this chapter's difficulty, I suppose.

Oh yeah, those promoted magic guys at the end can screw you up.

Rip Knoll, the dark magic user so bad, I was about to call him the worst shaman in GBA games before I remembered Sophia exists.

Rip Colm, the fastest support in just about all of FE. 

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1 hour ago, Hello72207 said:

He has the rewarp staff. It all makes since, and he just loans it to Riev.

Oh yeah, those promoted magic guys at the end can screw you up.

Rip Knoll, the dark magic user so bad, I was about to call him the worst shaman in GBA games before I remembered Sophia exists.

Rip Colm, the fastest support in just about all of FE. 

Despite criticisms of how basic the maps are in this game, I think this is the most lethal run so far in this marathon. The true difficulty in The Sacred Stones is it's lack of difficulty. It breeds complacency. 

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4 hours ago, Hello72207 said:

He has the rewarp staff. It all makes since, and he just loans it to riev.

I mean shit like "why can't he teleport into the sacred stones chamber?" or "why can't he teleport to our camp while we're sleeping?"

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Sacred Stones Day 26: Chapter 16EIR

So... bit of real talk here, for just a second.

Remember when I said I was going to start binging my notes to catch up on my feelings on the old games?

Well, in the act of starting this, I was prompted to wonder just how long this project is, and I eventually came to the discovery that, over the course of the 10 or so months that I've been working on this, I've managed to reach a page count of just under 900 pages.

900 pages. A couple more games and I'll have exceeded the page and word count of War and Peace.

And all for the viewing pleasure of... going by the poll...

...approximately 30 people.

I think that is the smallest audience I have ever done a project of this magnitude for.

Christ, maybe I should supplement this with some videos. This forum format alone seems to drastically be limiting the number of people who are going to see any of this.

It was actually kind of disarming to tune into a Mekkah stream, only to suddenly hear him give a shout-out to somebody who's been going through the whole game series, game by game, and reviewing them all... and then discovering it was someone else who was doing it, around the same time as me, in video form.

So I would just like to say, to make it perfectly clear:

I have nothing but gratitude for the people who come by almost every day to comment on this project. It's stuff like that that kept that realization of how few people I'm doing this for from making me question if anyone would care if I stopped.

...But enough depressing and sappy shit! Let's get into Chapter 16EIR!

So, now that Eirika's actually the main character of the route, I'm in a position to notice how jarring it is that Ephraim still does most of the talking between the two of them. Granted, as far as I can remember, Hector Mode didn't change too much of Eliwood and Hector's dialogue to put Hector more at the front. It's more that making it Hector's POV meant we saw a lot of different scenes when the lords split up. I'll have to keep an eye out for that here, and see how many chances these characters get to have scenes without each other. That said, I know Hector Mode changed some lines, the most vivid example in my mind being making Hector verbally face off against Nergal at the endgame chapter intro.

I know that Ephraim and Seth had at least a few seconds alone without Eirika at the end of this chapter.

...The camera had damned well better not stay with Ephraim when that happens.

The scene where Orson is talking to “Monica” and mentioning it's her birthday... I know this scene had creepy music in Ephraim's version, but now it's completely silent. Lemme check...

...What? That's curious. I had assumed it just hadn't happened yet, but this version completely cuts out the scene with Lyon and Riev talking to the guards outside of the room too!

...But yes, the creepy music did play in the Ephraim version of this. Glad I wasn't crazy. Did they... when they cut out all of the event script to skip that Lyon scene from Ephraim Route... did they accidentally cut out the music too?

...Of course, that would imply that Ephraim Route was the one that was written first, then. I know I mentioned something that suggested that Eirika Route was the one that was written first, but that was far less convincing to me. Especially since now that they're reunited, Ephraim is acting like far more of a main character here than Eirika is. I have difficulty processing the idea that Eirika Mode was written before Ephraim Mode now.

...Okay, now Lyon and Riev walk in, silently, without any talk with the guards, probably because Lyon's going to be in demon form here, the only form capable of wrongdoing in Eirika Route.

...And then the second half of the guard scene, removing the stuff about Riev being creepy at the beginning of the talk, starts.

...Nope, turns out it's Riev who does all the talking, and Lyon stays offscreen. That... makes more sense, honestly. That would be something of an unceremonious way to first show off possessed Lyon on Eirika Route. Though that does raise the question of why they got rid of the prior scene and the comment about Riev being creepy. You'd think that'd be even more relevant when Riev's the one doing all the talking.

Well, we are treated to a new scene in exchange for the one that was cut, with Riev talking to Lyon after leaving the room. We seem to be about to get a few more clues about “Monica”.

...Well, just one. Riev calls it “that thing” and can't believe Orson thinks it's his wife. That would lean more towards it being a clearly rotting monster, but given that our only other experience with the magic is with Vigarde, who demonstrated that corpses can be resurrected and returned to freshness even when they've been dead for a while... I'm still going with the emotional rather than visual aspect of this thing clearly being wrong. I mean, she can only say one word, that's more than enough to make it amazing that Orson thinks she's the woman he loved.

...Also, if “Monica” were rotting, I'm pretty sure the guards would have smelled it. Certainly when the door opened earlier.

However, this version of Lyon... I'm starting to get the impression that in this continuity, Riev had some Gharnef-esque hand in getting Lyon possessed by Fomortiis, like what happened with Hardin. ...Actually, for that matter, I don't think we've gotten confirmation yet in either continuity as to how exactly Fomortiis/Lyon got in contact with Riev.

Alright. My Cormag is a heck of a lot slower in this version, so I may have to make him a wyvern knight and just turn off animations (I just checked out the glitch, and it's surprisingly easy to activate) in order to keep him useful. But it may be more worthwhile in the long run to give him defense, given the slow speed requirements in this game.

Curiously, this version of the map seems to have inverted the physical and magical units. Which would suggest that we're not going to get purge reinforcements, and this map is going to be a hell of a lot easier.

Well, on the downside, looks like those eclipse druids have been replaced with bolting and purge sages, so we'll have some stationary siege tome users to deal with.

Also, the initial positioning is... well, my whole army's on one side, the far roomier and easier-to-maneuver-in east side.

...Also, that thing I noticed earlier about basically none of the enemies moving before they're approached... well, first off, here it's not basically, it's literally none of them, and second of all, you can get so much further into the chapter before any of them actually do move.

Hell, the bolting sage is in range of some of my paladins, and he's still not even attacking in place.

I have to keep Eirika back just in case, because I just realized that Eirika has just barely insufficient bulk to avoid getting one-shot by bolting unless she's barrier'd up. And if both tried to attack her for some reason, hooooly shit. Yeah, I'm guessing these guys aren't moving, but I'm not taking that chance for the entire run's survival.

Colm's staying back for similar reasons, but Rennac is fine.

...Yeah, it's turn five, and still, nobody's moving without being baited in.

And some aren't moving even when baited in.

Turn six and nobody's moving. And I haven't convinced the mages to move, or even attack from where they're standing in the case of the siege tome users, when my units enter their range. That confirms it. Eirika mode has deliberately been designed to be an easier version of Ephraim mode. The enemy AI has been deliberately neutered it seems.

...Well, I got a purge tome at least, at full uses even, just by charging in with Seth. I had Franz do it too, and after double-checking the weapons of the knights and discovering a horseslayer on one of them, I sent in Lute and Kyle to finish that knight off juuuuust in case I have an unlucky turn.

Now enemies are starting to get more active. Either enemy phase turn six was the charm, or it's because I entered the throne room. Either way, this should be over quickly. There have been no thieves yet, no reinforcements of any kind for that matter, and one of the two siege tome users is dead.

...Scratch that, a thief has just arrived outside. Along with all of the mounted reinforcements. And actually, having the entire map move in on me all at once was kind of terrifying. I had all four of my strongest units in one location, down south I had to fend off a bunch of luna shamans and a druid on player phase with Ephraim, Rennac, Cormag, Tethys and Saleh, and despite how powerful my four riders are, I had to think carefully about weapon triangle advantage to minimize the chance that someone could get the floor wiped with them. And also, I had to wait a turn to have Eirika and Colm start running away from the cavalry outside, because otherwise that sage might have started moving and killed one of them. After the initial turn, I had Franz and Seth retreat down south to prepare to face off against the southern reinforcements, while Kyle and Lute stayed to fight off the heroes and warriors and take out that bolting sage.

I had to switch my paladins over to swords, because the sheer number of powerful promoted axe users meant that for once, I couldn't just stick everyone with javelins and watch the enemies die.

OH MY GOD.

I NEARLY LOST FRANZ.

I nearly had a heart attack when Franz was barely surviving the enemy phase thanks to his steel sword... and then it broke, with a warrior nearby, still able to move. If Franz had just one fewer hit points, I would have lost him right then and there. Also, I am insanely glad that I used Ephraim to distract that silver axe warrior, or Franz would have almost certainly died.

Anyway, he lives, and Franz and Seth manage to make it back in time to fight off the cavalry attacking us from behind.

The treasures seem to be the same on both routes, which I expected.

The great knights are a lot less terrifying than the warriors and heroes, so Seth and Franz take care of them with ease.

Yet again my army shows up to intercept the western thief literally the turn before it spawns. It's not a proximity spawn, is it?

Also, this is the first time in a while that I've seen great knights using swords, and... that pose they make when stationary is kinda silly, honestly. The sword looks kind of pathetic compared to how massive they are, and the way they hold it up in the air looks super awkward.

Hell, I just checked and compared by fighting one with Franz! The paladin sword is bigger!

There's also been a luna druid coming from the eastern corridor every turn, which could have been a problem if I didn't make it there in time to kill him every turn with Kyle.

Oh yeah, speaking of luna, forgot to mention: Cormag promoted after dealing with that initial invasion of luna users. I chose wyvern lord. Cormag has a better speed growth than his defense growth, so I valued the defense and the lack of glitches more than the speed boost in the end.

Now then, to get some conversations I didn't even try last time. Namely, the other knights of Renais fighting Orson.

...Seth's dialogue really isn't that interesting. It's just Orson shaming Seth for his undying, thankless loyalty to his country.

Kyle is angry, and yells at him for betraying Ephraim, but Orson's all “you know nothing of what really matters in life”.

Also, I had Eirika fight him thanks to the Hoplon Guard.

Well that's annoying. Orson actually suspects that of everyone, Eirika might most be able to understand his reasons for betraying Renais. But nothing comes of this. That's where the conversation ends. He doesn't even try to explain, and we can't get Eirika's reaction to this claim.

What's really weird is that... like, Orson said why he betrayed them already. Why is everyone's dialogue consistent with them having no idea? All the way back in Chapter 8, Orson says that his wish to be reunited with his wife was granted. And then they hear he's spent most of his time holed up in a single room in the castle, and they don't even have the first inkling of what he's doing in there?

Franz, however... he has nothing to say to Orson. No conversation. I guess he didn't know him as well, but you'd think he'd have something interesting to say to a knight on the level of Seth who suddenly betrayed his homeland, given how much he clearly looks up to Seth as a hero.

...And Ephraim... also doesn't have a boss quote with him at all in this version. It seems only the main lord does? That seems kinda... needless. If you're gonna do that, if you're going to make this something only the main lord gets payoff for, you should've had Eirika be the one doing most of the talking to Seth about Orson in the intro narration. As it stands, this just feels pointless.

...Yeah, Monica definitely isn't rotting. If she were, Ephraim probably would've become shocked well before Monica revealed all she can say is “darling”. Upon seeing her, he's just “you, you're Orson's...”, and he only reacts with horror once Monica starts becoming a broken record, as if he thought she was normal until that moment.

...Yep.

...They did it.

...They did the thing I said would be stupid.

Ephraim tells Eirika she can leave the room, in Eirika's story mind you, and the camera stays with Ephraim, showing him deciding he'll be the one to put Monica out of her misery.

What the fuck!?

...Also... Eirika's bracelet isn't flashing when she promotes. It was flashing on Ephraim's route but...

...Weeeeeiiiird.

Anyway, I won't be promoting Ephraim yet. There are still a few levels of easy exp I can get for him before he promotes and his exp gain plummets for basically the rest of the game. But yeah, uh... not much to comment on here. I don't think a single line of text changed for the ending scenes, except that the game asked if Eirika wanted to promote first. Strangely, not even that changes for getting the legendary weapons. Seth still gives Ephraim his weapon first in Eirika Route.

I just noticed that the game implies that the prince and princess of Renais didn't actually know the names of their nation's own sacred twin relics until they read the damned labels on the weapons. That seems... like something they should have known. It should have come up in their studies somewhere.

Okay, one line changes. Eirika is the one who talks about the awesome responsibility of holding the legendary weapons this time, but that seems to be literally it.

...Funny. I think that for a second there, as they were leaving the secret staircase and the throne moved back into place, the throne was in two spaces at once, as the two spaces updated separately. I can't be positive though.

...Okay, one last... odd line change. After L'arachel says everyone will be welcome to stay in the palace, just like last time... she adds in that Eirika will be L'arachel's guest in L'arachel's own private quarters.

...I'm sure that's entirely innocent, but it's still hilarious.

Well, tomorrow we'll be taking on Chapter 17EPH, which I think is our first fight with Lyon himself!

Stay safe, everyone!

...And thank you for reading.

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On 5/30/2020 at 5:49 AM, Alastor15243 said:

I mean shit like "why can't he teleport into the sacred stones chamber?

That's probably part of the seal there, it prevents people from teleporting in. But if it can do that, well then.... That's one heck of a seal.

On 5/30/2020 at 5:49 AM, Alastor15243 said:

why can't he teleport to our camp while we're sleeping?"

Plot.

2 hours ago, Alastor15243 said:

Eirika mode has deliberately been designed to be an easier version of Ephraim mode. The enemy AI has been deliberately neutered it seems.

I mean, considering that most people are going to play Eirika mode first, it makes sense that it would be easier.

2 hours ago, Alastor15243 said:

I'm sure that's entirely innocent, but it's still hilarious.

It's L'arachel. One can never be too certain.

2 hours ago, Alastor15243 said:

which I think is our first fight with Lyon himself!

He's not even that scary in the first fight.

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Just now, Hello72207 said:

He's not even that scary in the first fight.

lol 0 AS

Not that he's much better as the penultimate boss.

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Just now, Shadow Mir said:

Not that he's much better as the penultimate boss.

I mean, he has 50 attack, so he is actually really scary, and is fairly tanky.

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50 minutes ago, Hello72207 said:

I mean, he has 50 attack, so he is actually really scary, and is fairly tanky.

That doesn't take away from the fact that he (still) has next to no AS, which means he's not nearly as tanky as he looks at first glance. 

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I've read War and Peace. This is better.

 

The reason I think people assume Erikia mode was written first is that all the minor characters seem to be integrated into her route much better than Ephraims. It's fully possible they wrote the main story of Ephraim route first, without considering any minor characters and then later went back and wrote Eirika route when the cast had been more developed. I'm still a bit puzzled why they had the same playable cast for each route (aside from the two on each side). It's a bit bizzare and it makes Sacred Stones have a really small cast compared to other games in the series. Maybe even the smallest? As far as coding goes Eririka's chapters are arranged first, before Ephraim's, but that doesn't necessarily indicate anything.

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On 5/30/2020 at 2:49 AM, Alastor15243 said:

why can't he teleport to our camp while we're sleeping?"

I mean, why doesn't Ephidel teleport when the dragon's gate explode? Why does he just not kill Eliwood himself the moment he sets foot on the dread isle? Or kill Marquess Caelin himself? The warp is never explained well, TBH.

8 hours ago, Alastor15243 said:

I don't think we've gotten confirmation yet in either continuity as to how exactly Fomortiis/Lyon got in contact with Riev.

You don't get any; you do learn that he was exiled prior to the game's events for being a heretic, but not how he gets pardoned.

8 hours ago, Alastor15243 said:

Well, tomorrow we'll be taking on Chapter 17EPH, which I think is our first fight with Lyon himself!

Hooray! Are you ready for the SIX MAGIC DRUIDS? So scawy!

Quote

I have nothing but gratitude for the people who come by almost every day to comment on this project. It's stuff like that that kept that realization of how few people I'm doing this for from making me question if anyone would care if I stopped.

Honestly, 30 people is more than any LP on the forums that I've seen. 30 viewers is something to be proud of!

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6 minutes ago, Jotari said:

The reason I think people assume Erikia mode was written first is that all the minor characters seem to be integrated into her route much better than Ephraims. It's fully possible they wrote the main story of Ephraim route first, without considering any minor characters and then later went back and wrote Eirika route when the cast had been more developed. I'm still a bit puzzled why they had the same playable cast for each route (aside from the two on each side). It's a bit bizzare and it makes Sacred Stones have a really small cast compared to other games in the series. Maybe even the smallest? As far as coding goes Eririka's chapters are arranged first, before Ephraim's, but that doesn't necessarily indicate anything.

I'm not sure how the musicless Orson scene happened if Eirika's came first. Did they just get the idea to add in the creepy music to the Orson version while they were working on Ephraim's, and forget to add it to Eirika's too? That's the only thing I can think of.

That is a good point though, that nearly every character you recruit in both routes before chapter 15 is used more sensibly in Eirika's route. Saleh in particular makes no fucking sense as to why he can just cross the continent at will. But then you also have shit like Chapter 15, where I can't even imagine that the Eirika version was envisioned first.

14 minutes ago, Jotari said:

I've read War and Peace. This is better.

Thanks, man.

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For what's it's worth, I like this because it's text. I wouldn't watch a video series of the same thing.

And yeah, I actually think the AI is inadvertently harder in Eirika of this map because I can never figure out what causes them to move. Like you, i just sort of charge in and end up with army randomly collapsing on me at some point.

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2 hours ago, Boomhauer007 said:

For what's it's worth, I like this because it's text. I wouldn't watch a video series of the same thing.

And yeah, I actually think the AI is inadvertently harder in Eirika of this map because I can never figure out what causes them to move. Like you, i just sort of charge in and end up with army randomly collapsing on me at some point.

The AI changes based on proximity. They don't do anything while you're in the initial hallway. But go into the treasure room or the throne room area and they'll start moving.

(the thieves by the way, are not proximity based).

4 hours ago, Alastor15243 said:

I'm not sure how the musicless Orson scene happened if Eirika's came first. Did they just get the idea to add in the creepy music to the Orson version while they were working on Ephraim's, and forget to add it to Eirika's too? That's the only thing I can think of.

That is a good point though, that nearly every character you recruit in both routes before chapter 15 is used more sensibly in Eirika's route. Saleh in particular makes no fucking sense as to why he can just cross the continent at will. But then you also have shit like Chapter 15, where I can't even imagine that the Eirika version was envisioned first.

Thanks, man.

See the weird thing there is that the game doesn't play two separate events, even though it has two separate maps. Eirika and Ephraim's shared maps are different chapters in the internal code of the game. As far as the game is concerned they are two unrelated chapters. You'd think the chapters would then call two similar yet unrelated story events then, but bizarrely they don't. They call the same story event and then within that story event they check whether you're in Eirika or Ephraim mode to accommodate the changes. On one hand this saves on making the event twice which saves memory...but if they're concerned about that then why in the world did they copy and paste all the chapters when they could have just done the exact same thing there!? I don't know, maybe it comes down to the unit placement having a cap that it would hit if it had a lot of undeployed units from the opposite mode. What all this jibber jabber means when it comes down to it is that all of the changes between the two routes is very much intentional. The way the game is coded, it specifically checks which mode you're in before making a change each and every time. So stuff like the music very likely isn't an oversight where they forgot to put it in or something. If I were to hazard a guess the reason the music is left out in Eirika mode is because they want to focus more on Lyon and not Orson, since this portion of the plot needs to continue building mystery for Lyon in Eirika mode, but not so much in Ephraim mode.

And for what it's worth, the Check Mode function in the game returns a value of 1 for pre route split, 2 for Eirika mode and 3 for Ephraim mode. Eirika's chapters and events are always arranged before Ephraim's. So it looks like hers was definitely coded first, but that doesn't really mean hers was written first. As the script was probably written elsewhere before being integrated into the game. Likely things were done with some level of simultaneity.

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Sacred Stones Day 27: Chapter 17EPH

I don't think I mentioned this before: this final world map theme is pretty good!

Anyway, yet again I stock up on tons of javelins before the battle, but this time I wind up buying two iron blades and two steel swords, since my paladins have been running low on their sword backups.

So, we get a flashback of Eirika and Ephraim talking to Lyon, and apparently he actually managed to use the dark powers of the Fire Emblem to save a little girl who got horribly burned in a fire.

...A fire in Serafew.

...I'm not given enough details about where he was when this happened, and how far from the dark stone he was capable of using its harnessed power, to truly scrutinize this claim for nonsense, but given the game's track record, I have every confidence that the writers were assuming that word of the fire somehow got to Grado, Lyon sent word back to bring her to Grado, and then the girl was ridden in on a magic space pony.

The curious thing is that Lyon says the stone “restored her life”. Either she was already dead when this happened, and wholesome resurrection of at least the recently dead is indeed possible with demonic magic... or this is just poor phrasing, and he just meant it healed her and saved her from dying.

While initially I thought it would be cool if that trip into town Eirika and Ephraim mention at the end of this flashback were in fact the same trip as the one to Serafew “1.5 years ago”, if in fact the war took six months like I mused earlier and those flashbacks were of the same time...

...One, even as I thought about how nice of a callback that would be, I still knew that it would require that Orson was wasting away, barely eating if at all, for six months, and was still capable of putting up a fight against my army...

...and two, it's clear from reading the stuff they talk about that these are completely unrelated trips.

So, that being established, this scene confirms two things: one, that Vigarde was sick two years ago, which was what helped motivate Lyon's research into the super dark arts, and two, that Lyon was talking to Ephraim and Eirika about the power of the Sacred Stones in the “two years ago” visit, before the “1.5 years ago” visit with Lyon, Eirika and Ephraim in Serafew.

...Where Lyon still talks about his father in the very-much-present tense.

Since it's clear that these flashbacks are indeed meant to still be roughly half a year apart, ish, maybe minus a month or two for the events of the route split to happen depending on how this game's rocky polyamorous relationship with space and time was faring at that moment...

...No, fuck that, what am I even saying? That's actually irrelevant. I know for a fact he was alive more than six months after the “two years ago” visit! Knoll confirms that Vigarde's death happened at the “a year ago” mark. I don't need this data point.

Basically, my point is...

Lyon says Vigarde is sick in the “two years ago” cutscene.

Knoll says Vigarde died of the illness around a year ago.

This means that Vigarde had been sick for roughly a year before he actually succumbed to it.

...I was gonna say that was ridiculous, but shit, for all we know he could have something like cancer. Being sick with something and surviving for a year is actually probably pretty feasible.

What I do find ridiculous is that Lyon failed to progress from healing brutal third degree burns into curing diseases or conditions or whatever was wrong with his father... in the span of the entire year in which his father was still alive after that point. Those two things do not sound very far from each other in terms of difficulty.

Yeah, I've actually noticed that L'arachel and Innes have... basically become main characters to a degree. It's actually kind of cool that we have a bunch of main characters talking together now, like in Blazing Blade, even if unlike in Blazing Blade they haven't had any particularly interesting scenes together yet. But I'm curious why Joshua has been left out here. I realize his kingdom has no real power anymore, but neither does Eirika and Ephraim's, so that hardly seems to matter. I guess they just really, really didn't want to spoil the twist of who Joshua is for anyone who played Ephraim mode first.

Anyway, we get to watch a bunch of green units get their asses handed to them by red units in a cutscene, until the only one left is Syrene, guarding a bunch of villagers.

...And then Lyon teleports in front of the party, demon face on, and...

...I'm waiting for the explanation for why they aren't using the Sacred Stone now.

...Nope, no explanation forthcoming it seems. Of course. Carry on, game.

While it's ruined somewhat by the fact that we've known Lyon was possessed for a while, the transformation to using black text boxes for Fomortiis's lines was pretty cool.

...Actually... have we known Lyon was possessed by Fomortiis? It just occurred to me I may have been taking that for granted due to already knowing the story. I suppose all the game's really told us is that he's been taken over by a “dark force”, but like... this might just be 20/20 hindsight, but what else could he have been possessed by? He turned all creepy and weird as soon as he interacted with ancient artifact that housed the Demon King's soul.

...Okay. So. He retreats to the castle.

He's still here.

We know he's the demon king.

Why aren't we using the Sacred Stone on him?

Do we actually have any confirmation, or get any confirmation, that anyone in the party knows or learns what the fuck you're supposed to do with a Sacred Stone to use it to banish evil? All it took to use one to rip Fomortiis's soul right out of his body at the end was just to essentially will it to happen. Why did it take until he actually returned to his body to try that!? Why didn't anyone try to rip it out of Lyon? It's not like they needed somebody to tell them they had to click their heels and say “there's no place like home”, right?

...Anyway...

...There's a lot of cool shit to get from enemiese on this map, including a dragonshield I'll have to steal from a berserker.

...Okay. Since I've recently lost... two more units I'd normally have liked to deploy, I'm gonna have some fun and see if I can't train up Myrh. These heroes across the river seem like a nice place to start. Cormag will weaken them on enemy phase, Myrrh will finish them off on player phase. I'll have Tana on standby to rescue-drop her with Cormag after her attack so that she isn't in range of them by enemy phase. I think that utility is way more useful than anything Dozla can do at this point.

Alright, my forces are feeling spread a little thin here, which is weird, because I haven't actually lost any frontline fighters since Kyle, and he hadn't even promoted yet when that happened. But I think I'll be having Seth and Franz take on the enemies to the northwest, backed up by Lute and with Rennac accompanying to steal, while L'arachel, Ephraim, Duessel, Innes and Tethys go over to rescue Syrene and the villagers. I'm most worried about Ephraim's group, but hopefully thanks to his promotion and the energy ring I gave him, he'll be in good fighting shape soon.

I did a double-take when I saw Tethys level up defense for her level 10 level up... and saw that she had ten now. She actually has a surprisingly good defense growth for a dancer, but that's still more than two points above her average for level 10.

Speaking of which, I saw a video by Ghast recently, and... apparently Tethys gets... really creepy? Like, rapey levels of creepy? In her support with Artur? Like, she comes on really strong to him throughout the entire support chain, she says he reminds her of her first love (read: a ten year old boy), he says she reminds him of his mother, and then her response is basically:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v_jcbz1fqdk

But moving on, using Myrrh to take out these heroes is actually... pretty damned terrifying. I have a 90% displayed hit chance to kill them when they've been softened up, but if she misses, she dies. But this is the quickest and only realistic way to make her worth using without her running out of dragonstone uses by the time she's good, so it's a risk I have to take. Her growths are insane, by the way, in particular her defense growth of 150%.

...Okay, I never noticed this before, but reading Syrene's recruitment dialogue again, it seems pretty obvious that Syrene is yet another “pegasus knight with an unrequited crush”, this time on Innes.

Anyway, this is cutting it really close, but I just barely have enough of an opening to send L'arachel in to block the druids. Two of them have Luna, but she's got just enough evasion to perfectly dodgetank luna thanks to WTA and I think her support with Ephraim.

...She did less damage to them than I calculated she would though. She was supposed to do just barely enough damage to one-round, but looks like that's a no.

Ohhhhhh. Right. That +2 attack from her support with Ephraim was already included in her stated attack power. Why did I realize that for her evasion but not for her attack?

Anyway, it hardly mattered. The important calculations were correct, and L'arachel was impossible to kill that turn. The bottleneck was held, and all of the villagers are safe.

Syrene's pretty helpful in this chapter. Fragile, but able to do decent damage to the mages attempting to cross the hills at least. Not much staying power though, probably. Not with that terrible HP. I really wish I had the patience to get a GBA pegasus knight off the ground, but aside from with Farina, it's always felt like far more trouble than it's worth.

Honestly, this chapter felt like it would be a lot more scary than it actually was. The reinforcements so far have been nothing, and the initial wave of fliers to the northwest was really quickly neutralized. After that it just became a trickle of unpromoted fliers.

After taking out a few heroes, having Myrrh fight the druids has turned out to be a far more valuable training exercise for her. She's still gaining a level for every promoted enemy she kills, and while she's had four consecutive +1s when she had a 50% chance for +2s in defense, she's still picking up speed nicely. All that remains is to wait for the reinforcements to subside, steal the dragonshield, and get out of here.

Man, this map has a lot of repetitive reinforcements. The druids have stopped coming by around turn 10, but the wyverns and cavalry are still coming, and some newcomer warriors have started appearing too.

Oh well.

More blood for the Great Dragon!

Alright, everything but the warriors has stopped. I flew Tethys over the river, because I need her in order to let Rennac reach the berserker steal that dragonshield without ending a turn in his range while he's alive. This seemed more convenient than having Cormag give up his Hoplon Guard to Rennac to bait the berserker out.

Okay. So. I finally cleared all of the reinforcements. I had to have Myrrh do some actual fighting, which felt like a waste of her dragonstone, but I mean, that's why I trained her, and she was the only one tanky enough to handle the fuckers aside from Cormag if I gave him a sword and hoped for the best. But what's done is done. Myrrh's used 20 uses of her 50 use dragonstone so far, and she's capped defense and achieved nigh invulnerability. She has 35 defense and 32 resistance, and even a decent speed of 16. The only real problem she has now is that she only has 1 range. Oh, that, and she can only attack 30 more times before she becomes useless forever.

Welp. Better make it count.

It seems amazingly unlikely that L'arachel is gonna manage to S rank light magic before she s ranks staves. Ah well. Latona's pretty good, especially in a game that has stone as a status effect. I just wish staves got an S rank bonus too, like they do in later games to provide weapon rank bonuses.

I spent a couple more turns support grinding Ephraim and L'arachel just so I could get that one last point of attack power Ephraim needed to one-round Lyon with Siegmund.

This is... I love this A support for some reason. It reads similarly to a lot of tsundere nonsense that I've been annoyed by in the past, but here... it's just so amusingly weird. It reminds me that despite being allowed to galavant across the continent on a delusional quest to smite evil... she's clearly been extremely sheltered when it comes to things like sex and romance. I honestly get the impression that seeing Ephraim's naked shoulder was literally the first time she has ever been turned on in her entire life, and she's trying (and failing) to deal with those emotions while poor Ephraim is witness to the very, very confusing fireworks.

Anyway, on to fight Lyon.

And hear The Prince's Despair.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E0eJ5txSgoE

Oh this song. This... I have such mixed feelings about this song. Ever since I was a child, I loved the part from 8 seconds in to 16 seconds in. But the issue is that... the song's just constantly building to that extremely short, unfinished-sounding part for the other 24 seconds of the 32 second loop. The second the choir comes in, it just cuts off that awesome melody before anything can be done with it, and then it's just building up to the next 8 seconds again, and I hate that. I like this song, but I only like 25% of it! It's like Nightwish's Song of Myself, but at least with that song the part I like lasts for a satisfying 3 minutes and 30 seconds, and I can just rewind the song to the beginning and skip the rest of it! Here... it's just 8 seconds! The part I like doesn't even feel finished!

...But speaking of 8 seconds, the fight's over really quickly. And then Ephraim gains another great level up. He's been getting a lot of them ever since promoting, funnily enough.

But anyway, since we were given no option to use the Sacred Stone on him, he retreats, badly wounded. I'm frankly amazed that Ephraim resorted to violence so quickly if he was so convinced that Fomortiis was lying and that Lyon was still alive in there. He had so much time to work out a plan for when he made it to Lyon, and he did nothing.

...No, wait, I re-read the script. I mis-remembered that completely. Eirika was the only one who said she didn't believe Lyon was really dead in there. Ephraim feels very confident Lyon is dead.

...Still though, it's weird how Lyon's still putting up the Demon King facade as he's retreating when nobody but the audience is listening.

Yeah, this confirms it, Ephraim wants to kill Fomortiis as soon as possible to stop him from “desecrating [his] friend's body”. That explains why he isn't trying to use the sacred stone. I'll have to see if Eirika's version makes as much sense.

What the hell is Innes talking about, that his trackers are “following Lyon's trail”? Do trackers in this universe actually know how to follow the trail of someone who teleported away?

I'm not saying that's inherently bullshit, but what I am saying is that if there's an actual explanation for how trackers could follow someone who teleported, then I would very much be interested in learning what that method is.

And the villagers reveal that they had a rescue staff this whole time, and didn't think to give it to the people trying to rescue them until after the danger had passed. Fantastic.

But anyway, that's it for the chapter. Guess tomorrow we'll just have to see how it's different. I probably won't be training Myrrh again, given how my Eirika Route army's larger, but we'll see.

Stay safe, everyone!

Edited by Alastor15243
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5 hours ago, Alastor15243 said:

...I'm not given enough details about where he was when this happened, and how far from the dark stone he was capable of using its harnessed power, to truly scrutinize this claim for nonsense, but given the game's track record, I have every confidence that the writers were assuming that word of the fire somehow got to Grado, Lyon sent word back to bring her to Grado, and then the girl was ridden in on a magic space pony.

I've seen a similar premise in a JRPG before- a Macguffin that emits harmless ambient power even when secured by a seal, a Macguffin that likewise had darkness in its composition. The Macguffin in question was sealed perhaps in a small dimensional fold. Said Macguffin and most of its fellow sealed Macguffins were responsible for creating very rich natural environments- entirely devoid of the tinge of darkness. And the evil empire was able to use an unreachable sealed Macguffin's ambient power to strengthen to an extent a few human soldiers with a dark touch.

 

5 hours ago, Alastor15243 said:

What I do find ridiculous is that Lyon failed to progress from healing brutal third degree burns into curing diseases or conditions or whatever was wrong with his father... in the span of the entire year in which his father was still alive after that point. Those two things do not sound very far from each other in terms of difficulty.

If the disease was cancer, a cure would mean magically stopping unregulated cell growth. If it was caused by a virus or bacterium, you'd have to kill the microbe for a cure, or at a minimum repair affected cells faster than the pathogen can cause them. Healing burns is repairing damaged tissue and or encouraging the growth of new tissue, but there is no active agent creating new damages- a pathogen or cells that've lost control.

Although IS couldn't have put very much thought into it, I'd pick cancer as Vigarde's killer. Since treating a burn and treating (but not curing, but treatments can be very important- see HIV/AIDS) a viral/bacterial ailment, should not be so different for magic. Treating cancer means correcting DNA or killing bad cells, and healing burns does not suggesting killing power.

 

5 hours ago, Alastor15243 said:

...Okay, I never noticed this before, but reading Syrene's recruitment dialogue again, it seems pretty obvious that Syrene is yet another “pegasus knight with an unrequited crush”, this time on Innes.

She doesn't get a support with him, but her little sis does and it ends in marriage to the prince. Syrene never yearns for him in her supports, and instead can happily wed Kyle or Gilliam with not a single visible regret.

Edited by Interdimensional Observer
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20 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Although IS couldn't have put very much thought into it, I'd pick cancer as Vigarde's killer. Since treating a burn and treating (but not curing, but treatments can be very important- see HIV/AIDS) a viral/bacterial ailment, should not be so different for magic. Treating cancer means correcting DNA or killing bad cells, and healing burns does not suggesting killing power.

Yeah, I'd be happiest with cancer being the explanation too. Actually, it wouldn't be the first time I've seen an attempt to get around cancer's whole "body killing itself" thing push medical study into "gone horribly right" territory. Dead Frontier, an old Zombie MMO I used to play obsessively as a kid, had this wonder drug called Nerotonin-2 that could cure basically anything except cancer. It could make cripples walk again, but it still couldn't cure cancer. Then they made Nerotonin-3, trying to make a manmade benevolent disease that could attack harmful cells as well as heal the normal ones, and, well... cue patient zero of the zombie plague.

Edited by Alastor15243
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7 hours ago, Alastor15243 said:

apparently Tethys gets... really creepy? Like, rapey levels of creepy?

Only in that one support, but yes, she's really creepy.

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So, am I the only one who has no idea who Syrene is? Like, I mean from a narrative stand point. I've played this game multiple times and she always seems to come out of absolutely nowhere. I know she pulls the whole Pegasus sister thing, but is she ever once mentioned in the story before this? And not just in the supports, but in the actual story? Because when we reach the map everyone is all like "Hey it's that character we know, let's help her!" Yet I don't think she ever appears before this point. And I was looking on my repeat playthroughs, but if it has happened it's flown right over my head.

I love the Prince's Despair. All parts of it. But I think it's way too damn long a song to work as a Fire Emblem battle theme. Fire Emblem battle themes, at least in this preAwakening era, need to get to the punch fast as a battle is likely to only last five seconds. Even with the dialogue box and the length of Lyon's spell animation, you're likely still in the build up phase before the battle ends.

3 hours ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

I've seen a similar premise in a JRPG before- a Macguffin that emits harmless ambient power even when secured by a seal, a Macguffin that likewise had darkness in its composition. The Macguffin in question was sealed perhaps in a small dimensional fold. Said Macguffin and most of its fellow sealed Macguffins were responsible for creating very rich natural environments- entirely devoid of the tinge of darkness. And the evil empire was able to use an unreachable sealed Macguffin's ambient power to strengthen to an extent a few human soldiers with a dark touch.

 

If the disease was cancer, a cure would mean magically stopping unregulated cell growth. If it was caused by a virus or bacterium, you'd have to kill the microbe for a cure, or at a minimum repair affected cells faster than the pathogen can cause them. Healing burns is repairing damaged tissue and or encouraging the growth of new tissue, but there is no active agent creating new damages- a pathogen or cells that've lost control.

Although IS couldn't have put very much thought into it, I'd pick cancer as Vigarde's killer. Since treating a burn and treating (but not curing, but treatments can be very important- see HIV/AIDS) a viral/bacterial ailment, should not be so different for magic. Treating cancer means correcting DNA or killing bad cells, and healing burns does not suggesting killing power.

 

She doesn't get a support with him, but her little sis does and it ends in marriage to the prince. Syrene never yearns for him in her supports, and instead can happily wed Kyle or Gilliam with not a single visible regret.

Let's not also dismiss the possibility that he in fact didn't save the girl, and instead brought her back as a limited faculty zombie like Vigarde and Monica. But that was enough like conquering death to declare success, assuming her lack of cognitive function was more down to trauma than zombification.

Edited by Jotari
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4 minutes ago, Jotari said:

Let's not also dismiss the possibility that he in fact didn't save the girl, and instead brought her back as a limited faculty zombie like Vigarde and Monica. But that was enough like conquering death to declare success, assuming her lack of cognitive function was more down to trauma than zombification.

I doubt it. Lyon mentions her mother being relieved to see her alright. Not everyone is Orson, so I have to assume if she were some kind of vegetable, that wouldn't have been good enough for the mother, or, for that matter, for Lyon.

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16 minutes ago, Alastor15243 said:

I doubt it. Lyon mentions her mother being relieved to see her alright. Not everyone is Orson, so I have to assume if she were some kind of vegetable, that wouldn't have been good enough for the mother, or, for that matter, for Lyon.

Way better than dead though (horrible much suffering burnt to death I might add). Not everyone is Orson, but having your child traumatically die is a path to becoming Orson for a lot of people, I reckon.

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