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Alastor plays and ranks the whole series! Mission Complete! ...For now.


Alastor15243
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1 hour ago, Alastor15243 said:

 

...They do berserk staff users in this game.

L'arachel has been berserked.

Had to learn that one the hard way too.

 

1 hour ago, Alastor15243 said:

 

Also, this confirms that each of the heroes actually dual-wielded both sacred twin weapons, and Grado... could use axes and tomes? I think these heroes are the first characters in GBA FE history to have been able to use weapons and magic at once.

Funnily enough if you find some way to get monster weapons onto someone in FE8 you can get units with dark magic and axe rank, which makes the pairing surprisingly fitting.

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Not only can they berserk staff users, I think status staff users might be coded to target them first. It's very easy to end up with multiple staff users in trouble if you aren't careful, it can snowball quickly.

L'Archel on the left is ideal I think, Rennac just runs right to you. If you block his escape path he just stands there, so you shouldn't ever have to recruit him with Ephraim unless real bad stuff goes down. 

Game difficulty falls off a cliff after Father & Son, it's all downhill from here. Double so if you find a certain FIVE USE staff in the next chapter. 

Edited by Boomhauer007
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Sort of off topic, but to hell with it:

I just beat Cindered Shadows. All that remains to do in the next... half a year or so before I get to Three Houses... is do the church route.

Possibly on Maddening. Which I am not looking forward to at all. Hard modes with ridiculous stat inflation... are not among my favorites. But I have to do it at least once to assess the difficulty.

But point being, if you have any questions about what I thought about Cindered Shadows while the memory is still fresh in my mind, I'd be happy to answer them. Ask away.

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4 hours ago, Boomhauer007 said:

Not only can they berserk staff users, I think status staff users might be coded to target them first. It's very easy to end up with multiple staff users in trouble if you aren't careful, it can snowball quickly.

No, they still target units at the bottom of your deployment over others, I believe.

4 hours ago, Boomhauer007 said:

Game difficulty falls off a cliff after Father & Son, it's all downhill from here. Double so if you find a certain FIVE USE staff in the next chapter. 

OR I COULD USE THE WARP STAFF!

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5 hours ago, Eltosian Kadath said:

Had to learn that one the hard way too.

 

Funnily enough if you find some way to get monster weapons onto someone in FE8 you can get units with dark magic and axe rank, which makes the pairing surprisingly fitting.

Just one monster weapon, Stone. The others don't provide weapon epx.

2 hours ago, Alastor15243 said:

Sort of off topic, but to hell with it:

I just beat Cindered Shadows. All that remains to do in the next... half a year or so before I get to Three Houses... is do the church route.

Possibly on Maddening. Which I am not looking forward to at all. Hard modes with ridiculous stat inflation... are not among my favorites. But I have to do it at least once to assess the difficulty.

But point being, if you have any questions about what I thought about Cindered Shadows while the memory is still fresh in my mind, I'd be happy to answer them. Ask away.

So, eh, generally speaking, what did you think?

Edited by Jotari
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27 minutes ago, Jotari said:

Just one monster weapon, Stone. The others don't provide weapon epx.

So, eh, generally speaking, what did you think?

I wasn't the biggest fan, honestly. In terms of writing, it was more of the same, just with a transparently obvious villain. I like the "new" classes, but I didn't find the characters they were attached to particularly interesting. More importantly, gameplaywise...

...I mean, the fact that the school system was cut out entirely was a big plus that drastically improved the game's pacing, but... this game still has a lot of the problems I have with the main game. The incredibly limited cast means there's basically no margin for error, and any character's death might as well be a fail state (as indeed it is in most cases), which makes the fact that a good deal of the cast doesn't have enough luck to reliably resist crits from what felt like half of the enemies... very frustrating. This mode was clearly designed with the divine pulse in mind, to the degree that it finally made me snap and start using it after one too many attempts right at the end of a very long level failed due to a random 3% crit.

The final boss was kinda fun though, to be honest. It was really, really down to the wire there, and I went all out when I realized I was running out of gambits and/or battalion stamina. But I was sorely disappointed that the game didn't make anything resembling a transformation sequence for this big monster. I almost laughed at how minimalist and abrupt the transformation was.

Also, this mode was very, very player-phase focused, what with all the silver weapons on every enemy and the complete lack of anyone with a sufficient combination of speed and bulk to survive more than one, maybe two enemies, which meant Edelgard frequently had very little to do except bait assassins. Everyone was just so fragile. That was further made annoying by the fact that the game only gives you one good healer and two shit healers, and basically no means of getting other ones due to Constance and Hapi inexplicably never having learned heal.

The very restrictive build options and the complete lack of interchangeable cast members also means I don't think it has much of any replay value whatsoever, since there's almost no way for different strategies to be relevant on a second playthrough.

Oh, and apparently beating it gives you one of the most broken items in Fire Emblem history? Jesus Christ. When I heard it mentioned on Reddit it sounded like a joke.

Edited by Alastor15243
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18 minutes ago, Alastor15243 said:

Also, this mode was very, very player-phase focused, what with all the silver weapons on every enemy and the complete lack of anyone with a sufficient combination of speed and bulk to survive more than one, maybe two enemies, which meant Edelgard frequently had very little to do except bait assassins. Everyone was just so fragile. That was further made annoying by the fact that the game only gives you one good healer and two shit healers, and basically no means of getting other ones due to Constance and Hapi inexplicably never having learned heal.

 

That's one of the things I actually liked about the game. Over the years I've come to enjoy more player phased levels and games as enemy phase usually boils down to 1-2 range tanks and skipping enemy phases. That being said, for character reasons I definitely think Dedue (and Hubert) should have been available in this mode. It just makes sense if we're going to have a limited cast DLC to give more exposure to the characters who are already in limited supply in the main game. Plus they're both the second in commands for their lords. If they were going to go splunking around a mysterious cave those two would be the ones to accompany them (especially Dedue, Hubert I can at least see doing some sneaking around on his own self especially given the empire does try to pull a fast one in one chapter). And even in terms of gameplay a second tank in Dedue would be appreciated. Although Ashe was super useful given that the game is so heavily player focused and Hubert was probably deemed redundant given just how many mages the cast was already going to have with every new character having some kind of mage facet.

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8 hours ago, Jotari said:

That's one of the things I actually liked about the game. Over the years I've come to enjoy more player phased levels and games as enemy phase usually boils down to 1-2 range tanks and skipping enemy phases.

Yes, that's a big part of why I like Conquest so much, the fact that player phase combat is more useful than average. But it's important that enemy phase combat still have its significant uses in order for certain builds to be remotely useful. My issue here is more that it makes a massive, drastic contrast in the usefulness of various characters, especially Fortress Knight Edelgard. When fortress knights can be bodied by two units who aren't Assassins, what the hell are they good for? The enemy attack power was so overpowering that most of the time, units who could avoid being doubled were tanker than her.

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Sacred Stones Day 22: Chapter 14EIR

Alright. We're at the end of the route split, and apparently nobody objects to the idea of me doing the rest of the game from both sides like this. I don't mind either, funnily enough. As fucking stupid as this game is, I am still enjoying myself a lot more than some other games in the marathon so far I could name. Also, two completely separate timelines of an ironman is... an interesting situation, even if only Ephraim's side has lost anyone besides Artur.

I'm debating what to do with the knight crest on Kyle, and as I back out to see if I have any other options to boost Kyle's speed, I realize that backing out of the branching promotion menu causes the map music to reset for some reason.

Crazy as it sounds, I'm actually vaguely tempted to make Kyle a great knight, because due to this game's ridiculous promotion logic, great knights get more speed on promotion than paladins do, at least if they're male. And goodness knows I'm not going to betting much speed otherwise with Kyle's speed growth of...

...FORTY PERCENT?

KYLE HAS A 40% SPEED GROWTH!?

I'm pretty sure I used two damned speedwings on him, and he's still only at 14!

...Oh well. Guess I can't remotely justify going great knight then, unless I really want axes.

...And I don't. Not enough to justify losing 2 mov. If great knights had 7? Sure. Lute's 7 is the limiting factor on how fast they can move as a group, so it's not like having 8 would help too much. But 6? Yeah, forget about it. Last time I played, I did that and resolved to give Kyle the boots to compensate, but I'd like to try it on someone else this time.

Anyway, story time.

En route, Eirika learns that the hall has indeed been captured by Grado.”

Eirika, how was that not implied when you learned they surrendered at the end of last chapter?

Oooh. This is interesting! We get to see the other half of the “2 years ago” flashback, where we see that time Eirika beat Lyon in a swordfight, the one Lyon was so bummed about and wanted combat tutoring from Ephraim for.

Huh. Curious. Lyon outright says “I've been bested at fencing by a woman” while being all depressed and I'm-so-pathetic and some-crown-prince-I-make. And Eirika doesn't even bat an eye at these words and goes straight to being all classic Eirika levels of compassionate and reassuring.

Sexism in the worlds of Fire Emblem games is... very strange, and when it's overtly stated rather than implied by worldbuilding and the like, it's usually directly challenged, as in the case of Lyn, Mia, Cecil, Sully and Hana. So this is pretty curious.

But then Lyon goes on to say that Eirika would make a better ruler than him, and not in a self-deprecating sense, but more putting her on the same level as Ephraim in terms of “What the people want in a ruler”.

I'm... not sure what to make of that scene. Moving on...

Frelia's spy network reports that...”

...There it is again, with Innes using that spy network as basically a free wellspring of magical exposition, using it in ways where you could replace the words with “The spirits in the air tell me that...” and it would still fit.

Also, yet again, Innes seems to be the one in charge of this situation, and Eirika doesn't even speak up when he starts giving intel on Lyon, a man she already knows.

Moving on...

...

...Wooooooooooooooow.

Okay. Okay. So. The timing here seems almost like divine fucking providence.

I just finished Cindered Shadows yesterday, and, spoiler warning for people who don't want to be spoiled for Cindered Shadows...

Spoiler

...Carlyle is giving me serious Aelfric vibes. The messy brown hair, the creepy, pathetic infatuation with a woman in love with another man, the complete inability to act on this infatuation in any way besides bottling it up for decades until they do something full-on psycho...

Carlyle is just hilariously, pathetically crazy here.

But I only betrayed our country and handed it over to an evil empire because I thought it would make you go out with me!”

He doesn't even seem interested in getting her to like him back so much as forcing her to marry him. It's... wow. He's nuts.

...Anyway...

...This chapter... does not look fun. I see a lot of ridiculous bottleneck corridors, winding hallways that barely connect to each other, a bunch of doors to rooms with enemies I can't see before I open the door...

...Sigh. Let's get this over with.

...I just realized that I've squandered multiple opportunities to get someone to A rank swords, simply because I've been using so many javelins. I still have Kyle and Gerik on his file though, I guess I could buckle down and try to do that. Swords are just so limiting in this game, but I'd like at least one person who can use Audhulma.

Anyway, Rennac reveals where he is thanks to the helpful pointing of a post-deployment cutscene, and I'm positioned to recruit him on turn two thanks to some rescue-dropping shenanigans and using the key by the middle door for the northeast door instead.

...Curious how in Eirika Route continuity, Lyon is actively dissociating in front of his generals, and they don't know he's actually the Demon King, but they all seem to only be following the orders of the evil personality anyway.

Despite Kyle struggling to one-round the crucial enemies, I still manage to force my way through thanks to the other units I sent that way, and Kyle can just barely make it to rescue L'arachel to safety with Rennac's help.

Here's something I didn't notice the first time around with Rennac's recruitment: He says he was initially hired to escort L'arachel to Renais. When did she leave? Was it before or after she knew about Grado's invasion? Did she have some business there? Or was it just the first random stop on her quixotic quest?

Anyway, I fucked up the trade chain to unlock the southwestern door without using Seth or Franz, so I have to wait a turn. No big deal. With Rennac secured, there shouldn't be any rush.

Also, I didn't bring Colm, which was... unwise, but nothing I can do about that now.

Alright, I think I have a pretty good idea where the secret shop is this time. Once we get there, I'll test my theory.

The cavalry reinforcements arriving from behind are... interesting, but due to the bottlenecks, they really just amount to an excuse to catch Cormag up on some much-needed training.

Man, this chapter is absolutely frustrating to navigate. Especially if you only have one thief. It's a ton of spiraling, winding passageways that make getting from one end of the map to the other infinitely more frustrating than it needs to be. Made worse by the fact that some of these rooms can only be unlocked from one direction due to the “roof fog”.

I was right though, the secret shop was at one of the grassy dead ends. I bought the same stuff I bought at the other one.

That's... bizarre. This chapter has reinforcements scheduled to appear on... turn 26. The fuck? The only reason I'm still here is because I forgot to bring Colm!

...Okay, so, I beat the map, finally, and suddenly I notice that... Jehanna hall... has two throne rooms? Why does this room Caellach brought Ismaire into have a throne too!?

Anyway, it looks like the stone got shattered later into the chapter than I thought, so maybe Chapter 14EPH's timeframe is... slightly less ridiculous than it implies? I mean, potentially. Marginally. And this is assuming that in Ephraim route, Lyon wasn't actually here with Caellach, which would demand the entirety of 14EIR to happen after Lyon teleported away in 14EPH. So this is assuming that the only part of 14EIR that is canon to 14EPH is the part where he just... warped there after the stone's destruction... to fuck with Eirika a bit?

Or I suppose that behavior would have been genuine on Ephraim's route too, given that it was the Demon King persona that was a ruse in reality.

...Regardless, this is also simultaneously the final nail in the coffin for 14EPH's grasp of space and time:

Caellach: Don't waste time. My partner here sees everything.

Yep. Caellach basically confirms that Lyon has some manner of clairvoyance. Meaning that when Lyon said that the stone of Jehanna hadn't been smashed yet, we can be reasonably certain that it hadn't been smashed yet. So yes, it's canon that that pegasus knight flew from Jehanna to Grado in the time it took Ephraim to talk with Knoll. At the slowest.

Also...

Caellach: Shut up, prince. My orders came from higher than you.

Either he's talking about Vigarde, or... Caellach knows that Lyon's other personality is “higher” than him. Or the game's just trying to be cheeky about concealing the fact that Lyon's really the demon king.

Anyway, we have a talk with Ismaire and Joshua, which... I mean, maybe if I used Joshua and got some supports, this would be more meaningful? But when you don't use him, it just comes out of left field.

Also, Ismaire only says she's giving Audhulma to Joshua, but then it says “got an Excalibur” immediately afterward.

And then apparently Grado set the hall on fire while we were fighting. Did they expect to lose this whole time?

...But it was an effective strategy if so. Eirika, Innes and their forces are trapped, unable to use the hall to hold a siege (it would have been super effective for that, too, with all those walls), and now we're trapped in the fucking desert, fighting a bunch of wyverns.

...Well.

Guess we'll be seeing the conclusion to that tomorrow. At least on Ephraim's side.

From here on out, we'll be doing each chapter twice, so... I want some feedback on this. Should I keep doing it alternating, so I can see the differences as they're fresh in my mind, or should I do all of one route and then all of the other to make things fresher for you guys?

Or should I forget about it and just do Ephraim route from here on out?

Lemme know!

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31 minutes ago, Alastor15243 said:

Also, two completely separate timelines of an ironman is... an interesting situation, even if only Ephraim's side has lost anyone besides Artur.

You never saw Saint Rubenio's FE6 Ironman I take it. We ended up with 3 timelines. Mind only one of them was completed.

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1 hour ago, Alastor15243 said:

Oh shit, that sounds amusing.

He promoted Marcus to the King class in Sacae, created bolting slim swords, nerfed all of Perceval's stats to 0 and destroyed the map.

Edited by Benice
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5 minutes ago, Alastor15243 said:

...Randomizer?

Frustration. I think he killed off most of his army. I think it was Treck, Ogier and Echidna that pushed him over the edge. (Treck and Echidna both died to 30% hit-30% crits landing a crit on them, Ogier died to four sub-30 handaxes hitting him.)

Edited by Benice
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7 minutes ago, Benice said:

Frustration. I think he killed off most of his army. I think it was Treck, Ogier and Echidna that pushed him over the edge. (Treck and Echidna both died to 30% hit-30% crits landing a crit on them, Ogier died to four sub-30 handaxes hitting him.)

No, I mean how did any of what you said happen? Was Marcus able to promote to king because it was a randomizer?

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1 minute ago, Alastor15243 said:

No, I mean how did any of what you said happen? Was Marcus able to promote to king because it was a randomizer?

Nah, I think he hacked into the game. He changed the Paladin class to be able to promote to the king class using an Elysian whip, (which he brought because he was misleading people to think he was going to use Miledy, who he swore not to use because she's too good) and did all kinds of other stuff that just kinda made the game die.

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2 hours ago, Alastor15243 said:

Also, yet again, Innes seems to be the one in charge of this situation, and Eirika doesn't even speak up when he starts giving intel on Lyon, a man she already knows.

 

Are you purposely ignoring context or overlooking it by mistake? Eirika is upset at the thoughts of facing Lyon which is why Inness and L'Arachel take charge. At the end of chapter 13, Eirika realizes Lyon is in charge of the invasion of Jehanna which makes her upset that her best friend is leading an army in a senseless war of aggression. 

Spoiler

Seth:
“The palace has already been occupied by imperial troops. The Grado army is being led by Lyon, the imperial prince.”

Eirika:
“Lyon?!”

L’Arachel:
“What it is, Eirika?”

Eirika:
“It’s nothing… …Lyon…”

 

The flashback Eirika has of Lyon is in real time so she's thinking more about Lyon than the war which is a great way of setting up her decision to give Lyon the sacred stone. 

Spoiler

Seth:
“Princess Eirika? Is there something wrong?”

Eirika:
“N-no. It’s nothing.”

Seth:
“Jehanna Hall has been completely occupied by Grado soldiers. I’m sorry to report that Queen Ismaire is already…”

Innes:
“And the one giving orders to the troops in the palace is Crown Prince Lyon?”

L’Arachel:
“What is there to give us pause? Should we not storm the palace and retake it by strength of arms?”

Innes:
“Frelia’s spy network reports that Prince Lyon is an initiate of dark magic. If this is true, even approaching him will be a serious challenge. I’d heard the prince dislikes violence. However, it could all have been a ruse.”

Eirika:
“…….”

 

And before you say, but Eirika said it is nothing. Well she's trying to reassure them that she's fine but the reality is quite different and the situation is weighing heavily on her. 

Edited by Icelerate
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6 minutes ago, Icelerate said:

Are you purposely ignoring context or overlooking it by mistake? Eirika is upset at the thoughts of facing Lyon which is why Inness and L'Arachel take charge. At the end of chapter 13, Eirika realizes Lyon is in charge of the invasion of Jehanna which makes her upset that her best friend is leading an army in a senseless war of aggression. 

I think I may have jumbled two observations together when I wrote that:

1: Yet again, Innes is playing the protagonist role far more than Eirika is, and 2: It's weird that Innes would start expodumping about shit he has to be aware Eirika already knows.

You're right that she has a story justification for acting that way, but Innes has been taking charge for a while now, and this is the first time it's been because Eirika's emotionally occupied.

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2 hours ago, Alastor15243 said:

And then apparently Grado set the hall on fire while we were fighting. Did they expect to lose this whole time?

I always figured it was more of a safety net. They don't care about Carlyle or Jehanna at all, so setting fire as a contingency is no big deal to them. 

Also Gerik is a good candidate for S swords if he's not going S axes. Or if it's Ranger, since Innes has a much easier path to S bows than trying to grind Ranger Gerik from D bows . 

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21 minutes ago, Boomhauer007 said:

Also Gerik is a good candidate for S swords if he's not going S axes. Or if it's Ranger, since Innes has a much easier path to S bows than trying to grind Ranger Gerik from D bows

Nah dude, Hero+devil axe is the way to go. I want to see some entertainment.

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2 hours ago, Alastor15243 said:

I think I may have jumbled two observations together when I wrote that:

1: Yet again, Innes is playing the protagonist role far more than Eirika is, and 2: It's weird that Innes would start expodumping about shit he has to be aware Eirika already knows.

You're right that she has a story justification for acting that way, but Innes has been taking charge for a while now, and this is the first time it's been because Eirika's emotionally occupied.

1. Don't really think we can say Innes is playing the role of the protagonist. Do you think Soren is playing the protagonist role in PoR and the Ike parts of RD? 

First of all, Eirika is the one to save Innes and it is usually the protagonist that is saving people because after all, you criticized Eirika for having to get saved by Seth and Ephraim. 

Secondly, I think the leadership role is fairly balanced and it is most certainly not Innes doing far more than Eirika. Not sure how you came to that conclusion as I did read your posts but you didn't provide any evidence to substantiate those claims. 

Basically when Klimt comes to Innes, Eirika is quick to ask who he is and also inquires about the situation, far better than Innes who assumes he's a traitor. She also proactively suggests to Klimt that he should go to Frelia for safety and support. 

Spoiler

Klimt (off-screen):
“Oh, Prince Innes! Thank goodness, you’re unharmed!”

(Klimt runs up)

Eirika:
“Who are you?”

Klimt:
“Oh, where are my manners? I am a member of Carcino’s Council of Elders. My name is Klimt.”

Eirika:
“A council member?”

Innes:
“So you’re one of the traitors who ordered–“

Klimt:
“P-please, please! I have no intention of opposing you or quarreling with you. I, too, have been marked for death by Pablo…”

Eirika:
“What is this all about?”

Klimt:
“It’s a shameful tale… Carcino is a nation divided. As you know, Carcino has no king but is ruled by a council. But now the council has broken apart into factions mired in discord…”

Eirika:
“Factions… You’re saying that the whole of Carcino has not betrayed Frelia?”

Klimt:
“Correct. The moderate factions prefer to preserve our alliance with Frelia. Pablo’s faction wishes to endear us to Grado, to surrender us to their armies. Once Pablo realized he couldn’t ply us with brides, he began to have us assassinated. Those of us who remain have taken refuge underground. We oppose him where we can. If you hadn’t shown up, I’m not certain I would still be breathing…”

Innes:
“I do recall enemy troops combing this area when I arrived… They were searching for you, is that it?”

Klimt:
“Pablo has usurped rule of the council. We had no choice but to hide. Not all of Carcino’s council has gone over to Grado’s side, though… You must believe me–the whole of Carcino does not believe as Pablo does.”

Innes:
“…I see.”

Eirika:
“Lord Klimt… I understand the hardships you’ve endured. I am pleased to hear all of Carcino is not our foe. Klimt:”
I will depart at once for Frelia to explain our circumstance to the king. I think it is best if you return to Frelia as well. Pablo has considerable wealth, and he commands a vast mercenary force. I’m sure he’ll send more of them this way as soon as he is able.

 

When Innes suggested to press on to Jehanna, Eirika suggested that following the road will invite mercenary attacks which prompted Ewan to suggest an alternative route. 

Spoiler

Eirika:
“Innes is right. And the road to Rausten leads me through both Carcino and Jehanna. However, pressing on will only invite more mercenary attacks.”

(Ewan shows up)

Ewan:
“Hey, I’ve got an answer. I know a way that leads over the mountains straight to Jehanna! Want me to guide you?”

Eirika:
“…And who might you be?”

(Tethys shows up)

Tethys:
“Ewan! Shush! You know better than to interrupt people when they’re talking. I’m so sorry. Please let me take my brother out of the way. Come on, Ewan. Let’s go.”

Eirika:
“No, no–wait, please. Do you really know a route through the mountains?”

Ewan:
“That’s what I said. At the top of that mountain, there’s a village named Caer Pelyn. That’s where my teacher lives. I’m sure he’ll lead you through if you ask him nicely.”

 

When they started clmibing the mountain, Ewan went too far so Eirika proactively suggested that he should slow down. Ewan then got into a fight with Innes which would just waste their energy that they need to preserve but Eirika reconciled them.  

Spoiler

Ewan:
“We’re almost there! Come on! My teacher lives just up ahead.”

Eirika:
“Slow down, Ewan. Let’s stick together.”

Innes:
“…This fog’s getting thick. I don’t expect any more surprise attacks, but that doesn’t mean we–“

Ewan:
“Quick worrying, mister! You’re gonna get left behind.”

Innes:
“…Don’t speak to me, boy. I don’t tolerate insolence.”

Eirika:
“Innes, he’s only a child. There’s no reason to be so rude. He is helping us after all.”

Ewan:
“That’s right. Without me, you’d never get where you’re going. So come on already!”

 

When Glen shows up to fight Eirika she's ultimately able to convince him to back down through a combination of kindness as well as showing force. 

Spoiler

Glen:
“Princess Eirika of Renais. Hold.”

Eirika:
“Who? You.. You’re General Glen of Grado. We met once in the capital, didn’t we? You were very kind to me. However, if you’re here now, I have to assume this means…”

Glen:
“Yes, it does. I wish our reunion could come under different circumstances. Eirika, I must tell you, I come here on the direct orders of the emperor. I’m to bring to justice the rebel army leader who’s been terrorizing Carcino. It’s you, Eirika. They say you’ve been murdering innocents.”

Eirika:
“What? Wait! What do you mean? I…”

Glen:
“…If you have something to say, I would hear it. I know all too well that Grado has robbed you of your homeland, but even so… I do not believe revenge could drive a woman like you to such depths. And yet… here you are in Carcino with a small army under your command. And the emperor tells us that you massacred everyone in Port Kiris.”

Eirika:
“That… That’s a lie! I could never…”

Glen:
“Go on.”

(Innes pops up)

Innes:
“…This is ridiculous. Believe what you want. Could one of the legendary Imperial Three honestly be as stupid as this?”

Glen:
“…What do you mean?”

Innes:
“Carcino betrayed Frelia and set a pack of mercenary dogs to kill me. And you paint Eirika a rebel instigator? It’s an absurd farce. Your emperor commits horrors, and you believe Eirika is a criminal?”

Glen:
“…What are you saying?”

Innes:
“You truly are blind, aren’t you? You’re one of the Imperial Three, and yet you can’t see your emperor’s plan?”

Eirika:
“That’s enough, Innes. There’s no need to provoke him. General Glen, we’ve told you what we know to be true, what we’ve seen firsthand. We don’t want to fight you… But if you push us, we will drive you back to Grado with your tail between your legs.”

Glen:
“…I see. You…are more observant than you know. I am ignorant of the emperor’s designs. General Duessel and I both questioned the wisdom of this war. And if you really are innocent of the crimes attributed to you… Why would His Majesty lie to us? I must know the answer.”

Eirika:
“So, you…believe us?”

Glen:
“The Princess Eirika I met long ago was kind and merciful in spirit. You’ve faced relentless hardship, and yet that selfsame spirit remains true. …Let’s put our fight aside for now. I will learn the truth. Then I will once again perform the duties of my office. If you have lied to me today, I will hound you to the very grave itself.”

Eirika:
“Very well…”

 

2. He's not talking to just Eirika as there are other people as well. 

Spoiler

L’Arachel:
“What is there to give us pause? Should we not storm the palace and retake it by strength of arms?”

Innes:
“Frelia’s spy network reports that Prince Lyon is an initiate of dark magic. If this is true, even approaching him will be a serious challenge. I’d heard the prince dislikes violence. However, it could all have been a ruse.”

 

 

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@Icelerate

You are reading into those lines things that aren't there.

Eirika doesn't stop Innes from attacking Klimt, or do anything to proactively give benefit of the doubt. She simply reacts to Klimt's protestations of innocence, same as Innes does. Also, it looks like that's a typo Serenes made. Klimt was the one who suggested Eirika return to Frelia, not the other way around.

Nearly all of what Glen cites as having given him cause to question what he's been told is what Innes said, not what Eirika said. Eirika simply ended their case on a polite note. Innes did all the heavy lifting of making the case when Glen was at his most aggressive. All Eirika really contributed to proving her innocence was... not being the scumbag she was painted as.

Eirika saying moving forward would invite more mercenary attacks wasn't her making a point. She was simply reiterating the rock and the hard place that everyone in the conversation already knew they were stuck between. Here's the rest of that relevant passage:

Seth:
“Princess Eirika, Prince Innes. I think we should follow the advice we’ve been given and return to Frelia. Continuing on through Carcino like this is too great a risk to your safety.”

Innes:
“The peril is self-evident. However, I have to reach Jehanna, and the only way is through Carcino. If I don’t hurry, nations will fall, one after another, to Grado’s hunger.”

Eirika:
“Innes is right. And the road to Rausten leads me through both Carcino and Jehanna. However, pressing on will only invite more mercenary attacks.”

And... honestly, telling Ewan to slow down is almost too minor an act to bring up.

 

Edited by Alastor15243
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3 minutes ago, Alastor15243 said:

@Icelerate

You are reading into those lines things that aren't there.

Eirika doesn't stop Innes from attacking Klimt, or do anything to proactively give benefit of the doubt. She simply reacts to Klimt's protestations of innocence, same as Innes does.

Nearly all of what Glen cites as having given him cause to question what he's been told is what Innes said, not what Eirika said. Eirika simply ended their case on a polite note. Innes did all the heavy lifting of making the case when Glen was at his most aggressive. All Eirika really contributed to proving her innocence was... not being the scumbag she was painted as. Also, it looks like that's a typo Serenes made. Klimt was the one who suggested Eirika return to Frelia, not the other way around.

Eirika saying moving forward would invite more mercenary attacks wasn't her making a point. She was simply reiterating the rock and the hard place that everyone in the conversation already knew they were stuck between. Here's the rest of that relevant passage:

Seth:
“Princess Eirika, Prince Innes. I think we should follow the advice we’ve been given and return to Frelia. Continuing on through Carcino like this is too great a risk to your safety.”

Innes:
“The peril is self-evident. However, I have to reach Jehanna, and the only way is through Carcino. If I don’t hurry, nations will fall, one after another, to Grado’s hunger.”

Eirika:
“Innes is right. And the road to Rausten leads me through both Carcino and Jehanna. However, pressing on will only invite more mercenary attacks.”

And... honestly, telling Ewan to slow down is almost too minor an act to bring up.

 

When did I say Eirika stops Innes from attacking Klimt? Don't put words in my mouth which is ironic because you state that I'm reading into things that aren't there. Eirika did come to the conclusion that all of Carcino didn't betray them before anyone else. 

You're right about the typo, my bad. The sentence makes more sense when Klimt says it. 

Reread the Glen conversation. Glen was still not convinced when Innes "did the heavy lifting". It was only after Eirika showed her character was Glen truly convinced so I don't see how you can make the case that Innes did all the heavy lifting. 

Spoiler

Glen:
“The Princess Eirika I met long ago was kind and merciful in spirit. You’ve faced relentless hardship, and yet that selfsame spirit remains true. …Let’s put our fight aside for now. I will learn the truth. Then I will once again perform the duties of my office. If you have lied to me today, I will hound you to the very grave itself.”

 

Yes, the passage proves that Eirika is also active in the discussions, not just Innes or Seth like you first stated.  

That was not the only act I brought up in that same paragraph so I take it you agree with the rest of it. 

 

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1 hour ago, Icelerate said:

When did I say Eirika stops Innes from attacking Klimt? Don't put words in my mouth which is ironic because you state that I'm reading into things that aren't there. Eirika did come to the conclusion that all of Carcino didn't betray them before anyone else.

 

How exactly are you reading that from this conversation? If you really want to debate this, let's focus on one point at a time. Here's the conversation in question, with the typo fixed:
 

Spoiler

 

Klimt (off-screen):
“Oh, Prince Innes! Thank goodness, you’re unharmed!”

(Klimt runs up)

Eirika:
“Who are you?”

Klimt:
“Oh, where are my manners? I am a member of Carcino’s Council of Elders. My name is Klimt.”

Eirika:
“A council member?”

Innes:
“So you’re one of the traitors who ordered–“

Klimt:
“P-please, please! I have no intention of opposing you or quarreling with you. I, too, have been marked for death by Pablo…”

Eirika:
“What is this all about?”

Klimt:
“It’s a shameful tale… Carcino is a nation divided. As you know, Carcino has no king but is ruled by a council. But now the council has broken apart into factions mired in discord…”

Eirika:
“Factions… You’re saying that the whole of Carcino has not betrayed Frelia?”

Klimt:
“Correct. The moderate factions prefer to preserve our alliance with Frelia. Pablo’s faction wishes to endear us to Grado, to surrender us to their armies. Once Pablo realized he couldn’t ply us with brides, he began to have us assassinated. Those of us who remain have taken refuge underground. We oppose him where we can. If you hadn’t shown up, I’m not certain I would still be breathing…”

Innes:
“I do recall enemy troops combing this area when I arrived… They were searching for you, is that it?”

Klimt:
“Pablo has usurped rule of the council. We had no choice but to hide. Not all of Carcino’s council has gone over to Grado’s side, though… You must believe me–the whole of Carcino does not believe as Pablo does.”

Innes:
“…I see.”

Eirika:
“Lord Klimt… I understand the hardships you’ve endured. I am pleased to hear all of Carcino is not our foe.

Klimt:
”I will depart at once for Frelia to explain our circumstance to the king. I think it is best if you return to Frelia as well. Pablo has considerable wealth, and he commands a vast mercenary force. I’m sure he’ll send more of them this way as soon as he is able."

 

If you're referring to "Factions... you're saying that the whole of Carcino has not betrayed Frelia?", then I'd like to point out that the way she says it suggests that she, exactly like Innes, believed that all of Carcino had betrayed Frelia before that conversation. There's no indication here that Eirika was swifter to accept the truth than Innes was. They just took turns questioning him and came to the conclusion around the same time. In fact, if you want to be really pedantic, Innes is the first one to say anything to the effect of "I believe you".

Edited by Alastor15243
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