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Timberland

Petition to claim parity between homosexual options in FE:TH

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Hi everyone!

 

Well, this is my first post here, so I don't know how to start, but as you may have seen in the title, you should know what I want you to ask.

When it was revealed that Fire Emblem Three Houses would have homosexual options, like Fates, I was quite excited, so I thought there would be more options than there were in Fates, and that in every run I'd play, I'd get the oportunity to have different male options to choose xD

I was really surprised when I bought the game, that the only options available, if you're a man, are Linhardt, Alois and Gilbert, while women have the option to marry Sothis, Rhea, Edelgard, Mercedes and Dorothea. I'm really annoyed about the fact that boys only get three options while girls get five, one of these being Edelgard, one of the lords, and also about the fact that two of the option given to male players are way older than M!Byleth (Alois and Gilbert, I think Alois is 40 years old and a wife and children, while I know that Gilbert is 63 years old and I surely know that he has a wife and a daughter), while most of the female options are about the same age as F!Byleth (with the exception of Rhea).

Having seen this, I decided to start a petition to demand equality. We deserve, at least, two more male characters for M!Byleth to marry, I don't care if they introduce them as DLC or whatever, what I want is equality between options, because I think it's a bit shameful for men to have three characters (two of them being old people), while women have five options, one of them being a protagonist and having only one of these options as an old person. I drive this initiative because I want to believe that these options were really created to give visibility to the different sexual orientations, and not just to please some fans (as we've already seen with so many characters in Fire Emblem Heroes).

 

So, if you feel like you can lend a hand, I humbly request you to sign the petition:

Click here!

 

Thank you very much for reading!

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It actually pleases me that there are no more of these options in this game.

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Signed.

I doubt it'll make a difference but it'll at least be nice to get the message across and hope that they address this in the next FE game.

Edited by Hekselka

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Signed.  I don't think it'll do anything for this game, but maybe for the next one it'll help.

Though, the only male character I can think of off the top of my head who should be S-Supportable by Male!Byleth, but isn't, is Claude.

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It really depends on how its done. 

I've always believed you should never write gay characters but only characters who just happen to be gay. First give them established personalities and bonds to other characters and only later decide which gender they sleep with. So it can be said I find a character's sexual interest fairly low on my priorities. That said retroactively making a character gay that wasn't written to be one isn't exactly an ideal way to write gay characters either. 

They could expand romance options for male Bayleth to include something like Caspar who has a paired ending about ''settling down'' with Linhardt. That wouldn't retroactively change anything about Caspar and increase the support options for male Byleth. Or they can include more gay characters in the new routes they got planned as DLC.

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I'll let this topic stay up as long as the conversation doesn't dive southward. 

However I don't think a change.org petition is really going to do anything 

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49 minutes ago, Etrurian emperor said:

It really depends on how its done. 

I've always believed you should never write gay characters but only characters who just happen to be gay. First give them established personalities and bonds to other characters and only later decide which gender they sleep with. So it can be said I find a character's sexual interest fairly low on my priorities. That said retroactively making a character gay that wasn't written to be one isn't exactly an ideal way to write gay characters either. 

They could expand romance options for male Bayleth to include something like Caspar who has a paired ending about ''settling down'' with Linhardt. That wouldn't retroactively change anything about Caspar and increase the support options for male Byleth. Or they can include more gay characters in the new routes they got planned as DLC.

Precisely! That was my point, it's not to force any character, but to create an option that should be already in the game.

Your example of Caspar was a very good one, and I can also say that there are other characters that could follow the same path. I've only played Blue Lions, however, I can say that Dimitri is a viable option, because of how he talks to Byleth or some gestures he makes towards him. And Felix and Sylvain, in their A support say to each other that they will die together. Things like that, that already exist in the game, and could make other options perfectly possible.

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Fun fact (and spoiler I assume):

Spoiler

Alois' and Gilbert's S-supports are platonic and Byleth ends up marrying a random villager GIRL when the game ends. Hence we actually only have one gay option: Linhardt. At least he isn't a sadist, yay?

 

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6 minutes ago, Kyn said:

Fun fact (and spoiler I assume):

  Reveal hidden contents

Alois' and Gilbert's S-supports are platonic and Byleth ends up marrying a random villager GIRL when the game ends. Hence we actually only have one gay option: Linhardt. At least he isn't a sadist, yay?

 

Spoiler

Then why are they even S supports and not just A?

 

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2 minutes ago, Rezzy said:
  Hide contents

Then why are they even S supports and not just A?

 

Spoiler

Well, to be fair, you do marry! Not them, not anyone you've ever seen and will see, not even a man, but you marry someone! :)

 

Edit: Not to start any conspiracy theories or anything, but I assume to make it look like there is more than just one gay option.

 

Edited by Kyn

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23 minutes ago, Kyn said:

Fun fact (and spoiler I assume):

  Hide contents

Alois' and Gilbert's S-supports are platonic and Byleth ends up marrying a random villager GIRL when the game ends. Hence we actually only have one gay option: Linhardt. At least he isn't a sadist, yay?

 

Spoiler

Yes, I also made the petition because I knew this fact, and therefore, the only gay option available is Linhardt, against the five other options, something that I do think that is veeeeeeery unfair. Not that I would marry them though, maybe Alois (?).

 

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3 hours ago, Timberland said:

I want to believe that these options were really created to give visibility to the different sexual orientations, and not just to please some fans

I mean you have your answer, you just don't want to accept it.

I, for one, am happy as it is and feel like it makes sense to not force these things. Actually I think they should even restrict more the heterosexual options (romancing someone like Hanneman is NOT okay even for anime, the guy could be Byleth's grandfather).

The one thing I agree with in this whole thing is that showing Alois and Gilbert on S instead of A+ is a bad idea, even just from a UI point of view really.

Edited by timon

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I am genuinely so annoyed by the male options? I still don't understand why everyone can't just be bi if they're going to keep the voice lines identical between genders anyway - as for the "oh it's not realistic tho" sweetie the game has dragons and magic in it, not to mention that every male character wants to get with female Byleth/every female character wants to get with male Byleth, we threw "realism" out the window a long time ago.

 

I think for me what hurts more than Alois and Gilbert being described as gay options despite you marrying a woman in their endings, is the fact that Sothis, Rhea, and Edelgard are all extremely story important characters regardless of route, and Edelgard, Dorothea, and Mercedes are generally pretty popular. Meanwhile the male option (yes, option, I refuse to acknowledge Alois or Gilbert they AREN'T options) is Linhardt, who A lot of people seem to adore as a character, but has zero story relevance as far as I am aware. Why can we not gay marry Dimitri and Claude at LEAST, both because they're story inportant (meaning each gender has three story relevant options) and, while I haven't played Claude's route from what we've been shown even from before release he's REALLY bi. And having played Blue Lions, Dimitri is SO gay for male Byleth. Then you've got cases like Sylvain and Felix, and Caspar and Linhardt, which are so gay, and yet three of the four aren't gay options, and it's never explicitly stated. I am tired of subtext at this point.

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I got a paired ending with Hubert and Ferdinand this was also kind of interesting. I could imagine Hubert being something like "pan".

Spoiler

He would marry a guy if Edelgard would order it.

I was just wondering about how we have more female options. Which I all like but in this case it was limited. A bit of a shame, at the end the players can choose themselves what kind of ship they want anyway. As long as it is not totally out of place. And I like Etrurians idea, its better to build the character first to prevent some unlucky stereotypes there. That there are limitations I kind of get.

I think the changes for this are long past. We can just see what they have in store for later. And we will get some DLC characters, so there is at least some hope.

I still think that FE is one of the more progressive games in this case. Even Persona 5 which you could think being more free with it is still a hesitant game there. This is still something we should not ignore. 

Edited by Stroud

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I'll reserve judgment until I play the game, but I have my suspicions as to why. . .and I want to confirm them before shooting my mouth off.  It's the kind of thing that sparks all sorts of ugly arguments.

Edited by eclipse

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3 hours ago, Etrurian emperor said:

It really depends on how its done. 

I've always believed you should never write gay characters but only characters who just happen to be gay. First give them established personalities and bonds to other characters and only later decide which gender they sleep with. So it can be said I find a character's sexual interest fairly low on my priorities. That said retroactively making a character gay that wasn't written to be one isn't exactly an ideal way to write gay characters either. 

They could expand romance options for male Bayleth to include something like Caspar who has a paired ending about ''settling down'' with Linhardt. That wouldn't retroactively change anything about Caspar and increase the support options for male Byleth. Or they can include more gay characters in the new routes they got planned as DLC.

I don't exactly disagree but if we go in with this mindset we'll almost never get gay representation. Too many people operate under the assumption that a character is straight unless confirmed otherwise, and writers likewise won't just make a character gay out of the blue. LGBT characters in FE will be few to none if we're okay with characters who just "happen to be gay," and they'll always be stereotypes like Heather and Leon.

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I never really said anything in the original thread talking about the LGBT options.

I think the way IS handles this was pretty bad. They gave 5 FxF options while only giving 1MxM option. To me that makes it almost feel like they only wanted to pander mostly to straight guys because they probably thought that straight guys think lesbians are hot while gays not so much.

I mean I'm happy for the people who wanted FxF romance of course but I'm not 100% sure if I can trust IS intentions after learning what happens in Alois and Gilbert's endings.

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23 minutes ago, Yukiizura said:

I am genuinely so annoyed by the male options? I still don't understand why everyone can't just be bi if they're going to keep the voice lines identical between genders anyway - as for the "oh it's not realistic tho" sweetie the game has dragons and magic in it, not to mention that every male character wants to get with female Byleth/every female character wants to get with male Byleth, we threw "realism" out the window a long time ago.

i fail to see how dragons and magic  would affect the characters' sexual preferences

as far as i know, the "fantasy" genre refers to, as you said, dragons, magic, pegasi and so on, it does not imply or require that every character is bisex only so that players can marry whoever they want

i agree that homosexual romances should be equal in number (i'm not signin the petition though, that's honestly just a waste of time, no offense), but i don't agree that every character should be bi, that would be downright stupid

unless the main character is explained to be a magnet that specifically attracts bi people, that is

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30 minutes ago, Florete said:

I don't exactly disagree but if we go in with this mindset we'll almost never get gay representation. Too many people operate under the assumption that a character is straight unless confirmed otherwise, and writers likewise won't just make a character gay out of the blue. LGBT characters in FE will be few to none if we're okay with characters who just "happen to be gay," and they'll always be stereotypes like Heather and Leon.

It takes some damn good writing to make non-cis a part of a character without making it a primary character trait.  Possible, but very hard.

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6 minutes ago, Yexin said:

i'm not signin the petition though, that's honestly just a waste of time, no offense

I don't think it's ever really going to matter, it's not a heavy mainstream controversy, and everyone is talking about that OTHER thing right now.

It'll end up like the other 99% of change.org petions and end up forgotten or will just be ignored.

41 minutes ago, Florete said:

I don't exactly disagree but if we go in with this mindset we'll almost never get gay representation. Too many people operate under the assumption that a character is straight unless confirmed otherwise, and writers likewise won't just make a character gay out of the blue. LGBT characters in FE will be few to none if we're okay with characters who just "happen to be gay," and they'll always be stereotypes like Heather and Leon.

Ditto on what Eclipse said.

Though think that's just how people default when they see someone they haven't met, we just assume things from their outward appearance until we get to know them. I think it's one of those things that's just a part of being human, I don't think we'll ever be able to not do that.

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20 minutes ago, Yexin said:

i fail to see how dragons and magic  would affect the characters' sexual preferences

as far as i know, the "fantasy" genre refers to, as you said, dragons, magic, pegasi and so on, it does not imply or require that every character is bisex only so that players can marry whoever they want

i agree that homosexual romances should be equal in number (i'm not signin the petition though, that's honestly just a waste of time, no offense), but i don't agree that every character should be bi, that would be downright stupid

unless the main character is explained to be a magnet that specifically attracts bi people, that is

You say every character being bi would be "downright stupid" but...why though? Because it "wouldn't be realistic"? That's my point, if "realism" is a concern for someone regarding a game with magic and dragons, and where everyone of the opposite sex wants to get with the Avatar, how is every character being a bi option extreme? Its a way to make everyone gunning for anyone happy, since there's no restrictions - a lesbian can get with Bernadetta if she wants, or a bi guy can get with Caspar, both without having to play as an Avatar that's not their gender.

 

Either making everyone a bi option, or doing something like Dragon Age Inquisition did, with several exclusively straight options, several exclusively gay options, and several bi options. The issue a lot of people have is that nothing is even remotely balanced - tons of purely straight options, zero purely gay options, and a very small and very uneven number of bi options.

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3 minutes ago, Yukiizura said:

You say every character being bi would be "downright stupid" but...why though? Because it "wouldn't be realistic"? That's my point, if "realism" is a concern for someone regarding a game with magic and dragons, and where everyone of the opposite sex wants to get with the Avatar, how is every character being a bi option extreme? Its a way to make everyone gunning for anyone happy, since there's no restrictions - a lesbian can get with Bernadetta if she wants, or a bi guy can get with Caspar, both without having to play as an Avatar that's not their gender.

 

Either making everyone a bi option, or doing something like Dragon Age Inquisition did, with several exclusively straight options, several exclusively gay options, and several bi options. The issue a lot of people have is that nothing is even remotely balanced - tons of purely straight options, zero purely gay options, and a very small and very uneven number of bi options.

Non-cis people are a reality, while magic and dragons aren't.  I don't think it's a good idea to lump them into the same category.

But where the video game falls short is where fanfiction takes over.

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2 hours ago, Florete said:

I don't exactly disagree but if we go in with this mindset we'll almost never get gay representation. Too many people operate under the assumption that a character is straight unless confirmed otherwise, and writers likewise won't just make a character gay out of the blue. LGBT characters in FE will be few to none if we're okay with characters who just "happen to be gay," and they'll always be stereotypes like Heather and Leon.

That's not entirely correct. I don't think following what I suggested would decrease the number of LGBT pairings. It would just replace a Heather with a Linhardt. 

Heather is gay and that's kinda all she is. Soleil technically(and strangely) isn't gay and her technically not being gay is all she is. Linhardt is gay but that's not all he is. Its part of him but it gets to join other aspects of his personality like laziness, wasted intellect, a small amount of sass, fear of blood and a carefree attitude. Heather is a gay character, Soleil is technically not a gay character and Linhardt is a character who just happens to be gay.

Its true most people would assume a character is straight until confirmed otherwise. I'm sure most people expected Linhardt to be straight. But that's hardly a bad thing. Me being surprised Linhardt is an LGBT option strikes me as an indication that its better handled than if I would identify him as gay at first glance. Because unless we're talking about people who match all the stereotypical traits you wouldn't identify a real person as gay at first glance either. 

Edited by Etrurian emperor

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I mean, i get the whole representation thing, but would you really want them to shoehorn character designs into being gay just for the sake of it? equality or not, video games are a medium. And it's up to the artists, game designers and character designers to make characters how they want. Just because you want more gay pairings doesn't mean demanding them will get you anywhere. The game designers don't really care about equality, they make stuff that appeals to an audience for sure, but it's still very much their canvas. Demanding they use a different paintbrush isn't going to make a better product. That's not how creativity works

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3 hours ago, Yukiizura said:

I am genuinely so annoyed by the male options? I still don't understand why everyone can't just be bi if they're going to keep the voice lines identical between genders anyway - as for the "oh it's not realistic tho" sweetie the game has dragons and magic in it, not to mention that every male character wants to get with female Byleth/every female character wants to get with male Byleth, we threw "realism" out the window a long time ago.

I agree with this though I will say that it is a false analogy. When you really get right down to it what does a character's sexual preference have to do with anything? like all it really effects is who they can or cannot S-support at least in this game anyway(cause Awakening and fates had child units I can understand why gay relationships would be omitted or severely limited in those titles). It affects literally nothing else at all. I mean what does suddenly making Felix a bi option suddenly change about his character. Not much I'd imagine. All it really means is that he's okay with sucking dick and I don't see why that matters at all. Again why not have everyone be bi? It affects literally nothing about the character, story, or gameplay besides whether Byleth can S-support them or not. So what's the harm?

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