Petition to claim parity between homosexual options in FE:TH

[De Geso]

1 minute ago, Hekselka said:

It is insulting. By having Alois and Gilbert not even reach a romantic ending the implication seems to be that Lesbians >>> Gay men because of the difference between the amount of the romantic S supports.

I think you are overthinking it.

Most Fire Emblem fans are men. Men like lesbians, they do not like gay men.

I don't think there is a pro-lesbian agenda at IS, where some regime of suits is determined to make gay men feel badly about how there is yuri.

[dragonlordsd]

1 minute ago, De Geso said:

I think you are overthinking it.

Most Fire Emblem fans are men. Men like lesbians, they do not like gay men.

I don't think there is a pro-lesbian agenda at IS, where some regime of suits is determined to make gay men feel badly about how there is yuri.

Agreed. Or at least, corporate executives assume most fire emblem fans are men, because most video game fans are men.

I think that De Geso is right in that there is not a grand conspiracy or bias. Again, I'd like to point out that this is not an American game, this is a Japanese game. The social dialogues and issues we have currently are not necessarily reflected in their decisions.

One of the major issues in today's society is the assumption that there is a conspiracy or hostility behind bad decisions, when there often is a very simple explanation. This does not make it a "good" decision objectively, just understand that they are not intentionally attacking you.

[Ottservia]

I mean it’s clear someone on the dev team had a yuri fetish that much is certain and that’s whatever honestly.

[dragonlordsd]

4 minutes ago, Ottservia said:

I mean it’s clear someone on the dev team had a yuri fetish that much is certain and that’s whatever honestly.

Also possible. I don't know how IntSys's teams are set up, but I would assume that only one or two people would have been put in charge of deciding which supports would be available during the pre-production. Based on how most video game companies operate, it's unlikely that the rest of the dev team would have had any input.

[RasaelKunn]

1 hour ago, Rose482 said:

It's a bit funny seeing people overreact to something so simple really, it's as if it would KILL them if more gay choices were in this game. 

And don't even let me start on the "You aren't the target audience, so you don't get the right to complain" argument that I see whenever this topic gets brought up. 

The other side could present their argument using the same line of attack.

The gay community is overreacting to something so simple, as if it would KILL them if fewer or no gay choices were in this game.

[Rose482]

3 minutes ago, RasaelKunn said:

The other side could present their argument using the same line of attack.

The gay community is overreacting to something so simple, as if it would KILL them if fewer or no gay choices were in this game.

Well, that is a stupid argument that I could totally see "the other side" using : )

[Shrimpica]

Honestly, even though i hate this whole S-support thing and the reaction people had with the limited options, i gotta admit that the whole Alois & Gilbert thing is pretty damn insulting. Baiting people like that isn't really fun.

 

[Strullemia]

30 minutes ago, De Geso said:

I think you are overthinking it.

Most Fire Emblem fans are men. Men like lesbians, they do not like gay men.

I don't think there is a pro-lesbian agenda at IS, where some regime of suits is determined to make gay men feel badly about how there is yuri.

Eh, I actually think there's quite a lot of women in the FE fanbase. We might even almost be balanced.

I also think gaming in general isn't as overly male as it used to be. 

17 minutes ago, RasaelKunn said:

The other side could present their argument using the same line of attack.

The gay community is overreacting to something so simple, as if it would KILL them if fewer or no gay choices were in this game.

In this example the ones that are overreacting are also the ones that have romances everywhere in gaming and have an abundance of choice. They don't need to complain about something they already have.

Gay men are a minority and don't have that luxury.

[Interdimensional Observer]

6 hours ago, Parrhesia said:

Adequate female representation? Not for the most part, but it's been distinctly improving over time.

Specifically for FE, the percentage of women in the female playable roster deviated between roughly 25-33%. Then came Awakening, where because of marriage and not wanting to leave a slew of dudes unwed (which Genealogy was fine with doing), gender parity of 50-50 was achieved. Fates kept to that parity. SoV didn't have it due to being a remake of an older game and not changing the sex of people. Not sure if 3H has gender parity not having it yet, but I'd hope it'd stick to parity even without babymaking around anymore.

 

1 hour ago, Flere210 said:

Very few people complained about Black Panther, because it was clearly an intended part of the MCU that was made by people that wanted to make it like that. It was not the result of SJW complaining that there were not enought black people. This is the kind of representstion that work. There are people that want to write diverse characters. Enable them to do so and give them a platform.

Asking for fair representation imo means asking for a world were Black Panther and Into the Spiderverse can exist and be succesful, not asking for replacing Tony Stark whit Riri Williams. And in case of Fire Embem, it seems more the latter than the former.

Saying "I want the next FE to be written/directed/produced by someone who is naturally of their own free will be more creatively inclusive" is a nice sentiment.

The problem is, how much further can one go than saying this? Maybe you can talk about how you would hire, if you knew enough about that? Maybe you could outline some ideas of what you'd personally want in a more diverse FE? An FE that isn't made one can't talk alot about.

FE16 on the other hand exists, we know everything about it that isn't future DLC. There is more to comment and criticize on, since we actually have something.

Edited August 13, 2019 by Interdimensional Observer
Flubbed a little on SoV

[De Geso]

26 minutes ago, Hekselka said:

Eh, I actually think there's quite a lot of women in the FE fanbase. We might even almost be balanced.

I also think gaming in general isn't as overly male as it used to be. 

In this example the ones that are overreacting are also the ones that have romances everywhere in gaming and have an abundance of choice. They don't need to complain about something they already have.

Gay men are a minority and don't have that luxury.

SF is a small sample of the fanbase at large (consider how many bought Awakening/Fates/Echoes versus the number of users here). Don't let what you are seeing here color your perception of the actual proportion.

I think maybe 30% of people who think themselves "big fans" of FE are girls, but of people who just buy the games, play one time, and then put them down? I don't think it's so high a proportion. Generously I would say ten percent, but Fire Emblem does attract women more than other games.

Of course, I also seldom if ever see these girls who play games that people talk about. Once in a while I'll see a casual mobile game player who owns but never plays a recent console, but that's it...girls that actually "game" in the traditional sense are uncommon.

@Interdimensional Observer who besides Faye and Masked Knight was added to Echoes? I don't recall a second male character.

Edited August 13, 2019 by De Geso

[Interdimensional Observer]

3 minutes ago, De Geso said:

@Interdimensional Observer who besides Faye and Masked Knight was added to Echoes? I don't recall a second male character.

Thanks for the correction! I messed up with that actually. Blame Leon being turned gay on that I think, good inclusion, but he made me forget Faye was the actual second addition.

[zuibangde]

34 minutes ago, Garlyle said:

I wouldn't call that insulting, more like disappointing to some people. Would you find a movie or book insulting if it'd not talk about all kind of social topics including gay ones? Don't think so, and why should Fire Emblem be different about this? I did not care to play with Fatesawakening, barely touched Tellius, and before that it wasn't really touched in this game as much as I noticed - not in support conversations at least.

As for your question, I don't know why we need to ask for gay options in FE games as explained above.

I personally find it insulting that when you give a ring to Alois (which the game used the word 'love' to describe) only to end with you marrying a girl...but that's just me. I would maybe understand your question if w/w options were treated the same way and TH is the first FE game to include LGBT characters. However, FE has a history of teasing characters that may or may not be gay so maybe you can direct your question to developers back in the 1990s or early 2000s. Now that they have characters that are explicitly bisexual, it's natural for people to have higher expectations.

 

 

 

1

1 hour ago, De Geso said:

I really don't care.

The production of those films was because asians and blacks are a sizable market...you serious?

First of all, how did producers discover that there's a market for films with a full Asian cast? One reason is that people have complained about the lack of Asian representation in Hollywood films for years. I can assure you that we didn't vote with our wallets. Asians didn't just suddenly appear out of the blue one day and started watching movies en masse to create a market.

Secondly, market size doesn't even make sense as an argument for the situation for FE unless people are not buying the game because there are gay characters in the game.

Finally, if you lack the empathy and is so against fans of the game requesting LGBT characters, I'm not sure why you're making yourself angry by debating with us because we're so 'unreasonable'.

 

 

 

1

1 hour ago, CyberNinja said:

You have the right to complain, not the right to have those complaints validated. I'd accept the argument that you simply want it, don't try to push as if it's an improvement to quality or tapping into a sizable market, I'm sorry but it really isn't. I don't think I can say this any nicer and still maintain my message.

I honestly don't understand the sizeable market argument. Nobody is saying that by making more gay options, FE is gonna focus solely on the LGBT market. Is making more than one gay option going to deter a significant portion of people from buying the game? Are we forcing the developers to choose only one market to please? It certainly feels like it from some comments in this thread.

[Flere210]

5 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Specifically for FE, the percentage of women in the female playable roster deviated between roughly 25-33%. Then came Awakening, where because of marriage and not wanting to leave a slew of dudes unwed (which Genealogy was fine with doing), gender parity of 50-50 was achieved. Fates kept to that parity. SoV didn't have it due to being a remake of an older game and not changing the sex of people, it made it worse actually with both new PCs being male. Not sure if 3H has gender parity not having it yet, but I'd hope it'd stick to parity even without babymaking around anymore.

 

Saying "I want the next FE to be written/directed/produced by someone who is naturally of their own free will be more creatively inclusive" is a nice sentiment.

The problem is, how much further can one go than saying this? Maybe you can talk about how you would hire, if you knew enough about that? Maybe you could outline some ideas of what you'd personally want in a more diverse FE? An FE that isn't made one can't talk alot about.

FE16 on the other hand exists, we know everything about it that isn't future DLC. There is more to comment and criticize on, since we actually have something.

Who said anything about Fire Emblem? I think that options should exist, not that fire emblem has to necessarily be the franchise that provide them. A fair number of rpgs that cater to gay people should exist, but i don't care if fire emblem is one of them or not.

[De Geso]

8 minutes ago, zuibangde said:

First of all, how did producers discover that there's a market for films with a full Asian cast? One reason is that people have complained about the lack of Asian representation in Hollywood films for years. I can assure you that we didn't vote with our wallets. Asians didn't just suddenly appear out of the blue one day and started watching movies en masse to create a market.

Secondly, market size doesn't even make sense as an argument for the situation for FE unless people are not buying the game because there are gay characters in the game.

They looked at China and other Asian countries and said, "Man, that's a lot of people whose money we could be getting more of. Let's make movies with Asian people." It wasn't because Asians complained, it's because they had a sizable wallet that suits wanted into. This is very obvious. Of course, posturing as "listening to the little people" is also a great way to make money - "we're on your side, bro, come spend your money!"

You are thinking that people will buy the game even if gay characters are included, or included more heavily, when I can assure you that there are plenty of people who will not (they'll see it as pandering, forced diversity, etc.)

I'm not angry. I'm just having a discussion. If you are angry, perhaps you ought to distance yourself from the thread.

Edited August 13, 2019 by De Geso

[Parrhesia]

It's kind of impressive how insanely toxic this thread has become, so fast.

[Captain Karnage]

Par you beat me to it

Anyways, I'm going to soft ban this topic for a while. So don't try to start up threads similar to this.