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Alastor15243
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7 minutes ago, Alastor15243 said:

That's not the part you bolded last time. You bolded the "he seems to genuinely believe what he does, and very strongly", which I said in defense of him, in response to people saying he says what he does to get a rise out of people and not because he really believes it. And then you reply as if I'm criticizing him for having a strong opinion, saying I need to have more respect for other people's opinions. And, keep in mind, you say this after he spent several pages rudely talking down to anyone who disagreed with him without actually providing any real arguments for why what anyone else was saying was wrong.

Tell me what this sounds like, because to me, it doesn't sound like your "defending" him at all.

On ‎8‎/‎21‎/‎2019 at 10:58 AM, Alastor15243 said:

Don't tell me you still don't think guard stance is useful.

He could be right, he could be wrong, I don't care at this point. Being rude doesn't go one way is more on point here, what makes it "right", for those others to say what they do? Because they "know better"?

 

On ‎8‎/‎21‎/‎2019 at 1:48 PM, joshcja said:

I don't see guard stance as a reason to guard stance. Levant-2019

At this point I'm becoming increasingly certain Levant is still on ch7. Holding a tea party. Because combat with the units available is something he's never done. Which is genuinely impressive in terms of turn count.

This is clearly an insult, obviously. I don't think there's a reason for this kind of attitude, that's all i'm saying here, I don't care who does it. It's an opinion! Why bother with something like this?

Edited by lightcosmo
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Just now, lightcosmo said:

Tell me what this sounds like, because to me, it doesn't sound like your "defending" him at all.

I didn't say I was defending him the whole time, I said I was defending him from accusations that he was a troll after the argument ended. That comment you quoted was referring to a debate I got into with him about two years ago regarding Guard stance where I showed him math conclusively proving that dual guard cuts the damage you take to a third (he insisted it was overrated and not worth using while repeatedly complaining that almost nobody can handle enemy phase), and he started making excuses that the hypothetical situation I was using as the backdrop for the proof was retarded and that I was an idiot for thinking that scenario would ever happen (when what I described happens literally all the time). I was expressing shock that it sounded like he still hadn't accepted he was wrong after two years.

Seriously, I don't know why you're getting on my case for this. He was way, way ruder to everyone involved in this than I was to him, and I suspect the other people involved simply lost their tempers by the end, and even then, they were more civil than he was.

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10 hours ago, joshcja said:

"You can describe all colours to a blind man, but an obstinate/ fool one insists that the sky missed and got crit once by a ninja for 4 damage and forced a soft reset so the blue in the sky is suboptimal and should not be used" (I do not know the saying in English but, hopefully, you get the idea.)

He, he, he. Exactly!

 

1 hour ago, lightcosmo said:

Is this actually wrong? Maybe in some arguments, yes, but is it really a negative thing to believe strongly in something?

 

28 minutes ago, lightcosmo said:

Don't give me that one-liner like what your saying is justified. What makes you "right" on all accounts anyways? He can believe what he wants, no need to be so rude about it

The thing is that you are missing the context. Check the message history and you will easily see the pattern.

A one-liner is enough here because every single argument with him ends the same way: talking to a wall.

I did not use the word “trolling” in a strict sense. If that is what troubles you.

Everyone is entitled to have strong opinions about everything. Yet when every single thing that comes out of your mouth is negative and critical, you cannot expect everyone else to deal with you or your issues.

Anyway, if you want discuss anything about Conquest, I will gladly do it.

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9 minutes ago, starburst said:

He, he, he. Exactly!

 

 

The thing is that you are missing the context. Check the message history and you will easily see the pattern.

A one-liner is enough here because every single argument with him ends the same way: talking to a wall.

I did not use the word “trolling” in a strict sense. If that is what troubles you.

Everyone is entitled to have strong opinions about everything. Yet when every single thing that comes out of your mouth is negative and critical, you cannot expect everyone else to deal with you or your issues.

Anyway, if you want discuss anything about Conquest, I will gladly do it.

I've had discussions with him before, I understand he comes off as aggressive, obviously. But that doesn't mean his opinion doesn't matter. Not everyone is the same, just cause i'm mellow doesn't mean everyone is. 

A one liner doesn't really tell me why i'm wrong on what I said, though. He disagreed with no reason why, what am I supposed to say?

Bolded: Now I agree with this, it's not ideal to be so negative, but that applies to all parties, not just him. I guess what i'm trying to say is, shouldn't people want to have fun discussing it, not want to tear their hair out trying to convince someone else?

Discussing Conquest... Personally, I am not a fan of fates, so I never bother. I could throw ideas out, but they don't mean much as I don't particularly care about the game. Also, last time I've played Vanilla Fates... gosh, who knows.

 

Edited by lightcosmo
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1 hour ago, lightcosmo said:

This response is so useful, maybe next time, you might actually contribute something! Don't give me that one-liner like what your saying is justified. What makes you "right" on all accounts anyways? He can believe what he wants, no need to be so rude about it. Also, I never said he was right or wrong, just that believing in something isn't a bad.

It's 100% truthful, accurate, and correct yes. Defend a posters viewpoints from a position of logic/math/whatever and I'll listen, defend the years long tirade of crap based on vague emotional appeal and I'll react with the emotion inspired...

Apathy.

------------

Believing in things is absolutely horrifying as often as it is good. The value of belief is weighted by the value of the belief.

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21 minutes ago, lightcosmo said:

This is clearly an insult, obviously. I don't think there's a reason for this kind of attitude, that's all i'm saying here, I don't care who does it. It's an opinion! Why bother with something like this?

I am sorry to disappoint you, but you simply could not get the joke.

Chapter 7 fields the very same units that he criticises and derides on every single thread, regardless of the topic being discussed (just check the message history, it is all there.) Which brings the question: How did he ever manage to complete that chapter? He, he.

 

2 minutes ago, lightcosmo said:

Now I agree with this, it's not ideal to be so negative, but that applies to all parties, not just him. I guess what i'm trying to say is, shouldn't people want to have fun discussing it, not want to tear their hair out trying to convince someone else?

Ideal? It is a basic civil value!

Just for the record: we do have fun discussing Fates. But some of us try to warn others before getting into an alley that will inevitably scare the fun away.

 

24 minutes ago, joshcja said:

Defend a posters viewpoints from a position of logic/math/whatever and I'll listen, defend the years long tirade of crap based on vague emotional appeal and I'll react with the emotion inspired...

Apathy.

And I wholeheartedly agree, mate.

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9 hours ago, lightcosmo said:

I didn't say it was, just wondering why it's such a huge deal, is all. A lot of people seem to take an opinion very seriously, when it's usually just that. Again, i'm not saying he's right or wrong, since I sure don't know. Just that people should give him a chance before calling him out on trolling and such.

Why are you getting involved in this when you have no idea about the situation you're looking at?

Levant (Shadow Mir) has been doing this for years, lightcosmo. Since Fates first came out he has been outright ignoring proven facts and irrefutable data in favor of "well one time I missed a 78 that I shouldn't have gone for so Niles is bad." "One time Arthur took a 5% crit and I had to reset so Arthur is the worst unit in the game." He is either an idiot to such a degree that he truly believes these things (read: poor tactics) make a unit bad, or he is a troll. Tell me, which one do you think would interject with their opinion about the subject every single time it's brought up, even in other boards that have nothing to do with Fates?

But I'll let you see for yourself - use Fates as a frame of reference in another thread (for example: "Three Houses has some good offensive units but nothing as crazy as Fates Berserkers") and if it's a thread he would have read normally he will likely quote you about how he needs to be frank that Berserkers aren't very good, and he'll specifically name Arthur and Charlotte - and that will be all there is to his post.

We've tried giving him a chance for a long time. It just isn't worth it.

Edited by De Geso
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1 hour ago, De Geso said:

Why are you getting involved in this when you have no idea about the situation you're looking at?

Levant (Shadow Mir) has been doing this for years, lightcosmo. Since Fates first came out he has been outright ignoring proven facts and irrefutable data in favor of "well one time I missed a 78 that I shouldn't have gone for so Niles is bad." "One time Arthur took a 5% crit and I had to reset so Arthur is the worst unit in the game." He is either an idiot to such a degree that he truly believes these things (read: poor tactics) make a unit bad, or he is a troll. Tell me, which one do you think would interject with their opinion about the subject every single time it's brought up, even in other boards that have nothing to do with Fates?

But I'll let you see for yourself - use Fates as a frame of reference in another thread (for example: "Three Houses has some good offensive units but nothing as crazy as Fates Berserkers") and if it's a thread he would have read normally he will likely quote you about how he needs to be frank that Berserkers aren't very good, and he'll specifically name Arthur and Charlotte - and that will be all there is to his post.

We've tried giving him a chance for a long time. It just isn't worth it.

As I stated before, I've argued with him before in the FE4 thread, this isn't unknown to me. He's one of the few that says in every FE4 thread: "the maps are large which makes the game terrible" every time the game is brought up, but I certainly didn't use statements like the one bolded, I actually tried to have a reasonable conversation to get my point across, not just throw insults back and forth like kids, what does that accomplish? You aren't going to change his views, obviously, so why get so upset over it?

As far as luck goes... this is Fire Emblem, what else can you expect? Getting angry about it is silly, since it's going to happen eventually, and I agree that it doesn't make something terrible, cause gosh, even Sigurd can miss, it certainly doesn't make him awful. But I think there's a better way to prove a point than name-calling.

Cognitive bias certainly is a problem here. I don't know much about Fates, and I can say I've missed a fair amount of times in clutch situations too but that's what you get for playing Fire Emblem, really.  How does Fates relate to Three Houses, they aren't the same game, and don't have the same mechanics?

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44 minutes ago, lightcosmo said:

As I stated before, I've argued with him before in the FE4 thread, this isn't unknown to me. He's one of the few that says in every FE4 thread: "the maps are large which makes the game terrible" every time the game is brought up, but I certainly didn't use statements like the one bolded, I actually tried to have a reasonable conversation to get my point across, not just throw insults back and forth like kids, what does that accomplish? You aren't going to change his views, obviously, so why get so upset over it?

Wait. The FE4 subforum discusses anything but mapsize? This is bloody pandemonium, cats and dogs living together, madness. That would be like the FE7 board taking a day off from discussing how viable Nino is.

Given the long, long walls of text you're using to say the equivilant of "plz no bully" it's fair to say that... nobody here is angry, you just don't get the joke.

Quote

As far as luck goes... this is Fire Emblem, what else can you expect? Getting angry about it is silly, since it's going to happen eventually, and I agree that it doesn't make something terrible, cause gosh, even Sigurd can miss, it certainly doesn't make him awful. But I think there's a better way to prove a point than name-calling.

Cognitive bias certainly is a problem here. I don't know much about Fates, and I can say I've missed a fair amount of times in clutch situations too but that's what you get for playing Fire Emblem, really.  How does Fates relate to Three Houses, they aren't the same game, and don't have the same mechanics?

To break this down into very simple terms...

The Fates forum is entirely composed of bored shiptoasters and Levant is a meme.

(I'm suspicious that this may be a LevAlt)

Edited by joshcja
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3 hours ago, lightcosmo said:

As I stated before, I've argued with him before in the FE4 thread, this isn't unknown to me. He's one of the few that says in every FE4 thread: "the maps are large which makes the game terrible" every time the game is brought up, but I certainly didn't use statements like the one bolded, I actually tried to have a reasonable conversation to get my point across, not just throw insults back and forth like kids, what does that accomplish? You aren't going to change his views, obviously, so why get so upset over it?

As far as luck goes... this is Fire Emblem, what else can you expect? Getting angry about it is silly, since it's going to happen eventually, and I agree that it doesn't make something terrible, cause gosh, even Sigurd can miss, it certainly doesn't make him awful. But I think there's a better way to prove a point than name-calling.

Cognitive bias certainly is a problem here. I don't know much about Fates, and I can say I've missed a fair amount of times in clutch situations too but that's what you get for playing Fire Emblem, really.  How does Fates relate to Three Houses, they aren't the same game, and don't have the same mechanics?

I'm not upset. Getting upset over Levant is a fool's game. I'm also not trying to change his views - but when someone outright denies facts, they are to be either refuted, mocked or ignored, and refutation has run its course.

I don't think you even needed to write out your second paragraph.

Using one FE game as a frame of reference to another has been done for a long time (among Japanese fans, probably since FE2 came out). You serious?

Again, why are you here to defend Levant if you know nothing about Fates nor the situation you're inserting yourself into? What is to be gained by you doing this? Your post history shows you are probably not an alt (unless you are that insane and dedicated), so what is it? Are you the fun police?

Edited by De Geso
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4 hours ago, joshcja said:

To break this down into very simple terms...

The Fates forum is entirely composed of bored shiptoasters and Levant is a meme.

(I'm suspicious that this may be a LevAlt)

I thought the same after my last message and pre-emptively hid his messages. Ha!

 

4 hours ago, De Geso said:

What is to be gained by you doing this? Your post history shows you are probably not an alt (unless you are that insane and dedicated), so what is it?

He is not? Shit! Too late, mate. Too late. 🙃

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6 minutes ago, starburst said:

I thought the same after my last message and pre-emptively hid his messages. Ha!

 

He is not? Shit! Too late, mate. Too late. 🙃

Hahaha, I don't think you will miss much...

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39 minutes ago, Alastor15243 said:

...Maybe we can bring things back on topic now that it's cooled down?

First off, how would you guys compare the value of enemy-phase weapons versus player phase weapons?

Excluding braves...  aren't they the same thing?

I guess bows and the hand axe are sorta situational on EP with the caveat that the situation comes up constantly.

Edited by joshcja
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6 minutes ago, joshcja said:

Excluding braves...  aren't they the same thing?

I guess bows and the hand axe are sorta situational on EP with the caveat that the situation comes up constantly.

What I mean is, how would we compare a weapon that has good 1-2 range to a weapon with a devastating player phase like a brave weapon or strong bows?

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I value EP weapons way more. My "best" units are enabled by shurikens, Siegfried, Nos, and calamity gate (all arguably EP or both EP/PP weapons). Put nos above S tier.

 

I don't even switch off EP/PP weapons that often. The unit using them determines which kind of weapon they get. Arthur/Camilla/Niles and more are getting PP weapons, while Xander/Silas/Odin/Ophelia are getting EP weapons and PP weapons, though they'll have EP weapons on most of the time (which arguably makes those weapons more important).

Edited by Centh
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54 minutes ago, Alastor15243 said:

What I mean is, how would we compare a weapon that has good 1-2 range to a weapon with a devastating player phase like a brave weapon or strong bows?

We don't? Apples are apples, snozzberries are snozzberries, and of we have the rank for braves we have the rank for EP stuff of the same type.

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I think the brave weapons are pretty terrible in fates. For the most part, they are completely not needed since you should be able to ORKO without them any. There are enough ways to boost your str even for characters with shaky str growths like Kaze and Selena. Unlike other FE games, braves neuter your enemy phase. And that sucks a lot. They can be nice to have on a wary fighter tank and sometimes brave weapons can be useful if you double so you get 4 attacks. Sometimes they can make a difference. But the other big fault is how long it takes to raise weapon ranks. Most of my characters don't reach A rank to use braves.

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16 minutes ago, wissenschaft said:

I think the brave weapons are pretty terrible in fates. For the most part, they are completely not needed since you should be able to ORKO without them any. There are enough ways to boost your str even for characters with shaky str growths like Kaze and Selena. Unlike other FE games, braves neuter your enemy phase. And that sucks a lot. They can be nice to have on a wary fighter tank and sometimes brave weapons can be useful if you double so you get 4 attacks. Sometimes they can make a difference. But the other big fault is how long it takes to raise weapon ranks. Most of my characters don't reach A rank to use braves.

Hitting 4 times with a skillset that adds up to +34 damage per hit makes braves hilarious for killing the unholy shit out of certain things with 0 interaction or chance of failure.

Like stage 28 tacomeat, wary fighters, or just anything you don't want to get a hit in at all.

They're useful.

The default example is brave axe, fullbuff,  +12, 3 statue, Be Camilia vs stage 28 taco holding Be Mu. Click, boom, dead.

Edited by joshcja
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7 minutes ago, wissenschaft said:

oops. I completely forgot Braves still double vs wary fighters. Thats a good point. Would have helped to remember that for ch 26.......

Aura stacking/dual strike is also a thing so just... swapping weapons via makes braves EP pretty not-an-issue.

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