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MegaGax

Best Weapon Usage?

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So now that the game has been out for a spell and people have gotten to have a couple of play-throughs, I'd like to see some opinions on something: weapons.

In general, what has been your mainstay weapons for your units in each weapon category, do you forge at all, if so, which weapons are worth forging?

Did you make conservative usage of hero relics (due to the pain required to repair them), or did you spam them out of the gate?

For my own play-throughs so far, I've mostly used forged iron weapons as my units main attacking weapon simply due to the low weight, decent durability, and decent might. I've also sprinkled in some of the brave weapons too. Notably, I haven't really used the hero's relics at all (minus the sword of the creator, and accessories that you can equip, like the Aegis Shield.)

Edited by MegaGax

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I haven’t messed around too much with forging, but I like the mechanic.

i think one of my biggest balance criticisms of this game is that you get access to brave weapons way too early.

I mostly use a combination of brave weapons + iron weapons, with any of the Zoltan weapons and divine weapons handed out to those who have too low strength to effectively use brave weapons.

Apparently you can have the blacksmith repair divine weapons for umbrellas steel, have not confirmed this.

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Iron, and forged Iron, have been my bread and butter on most characters. Including the cost of buying the smithing stones needed to repair, and factoring in they have higher durability, Iron forges are barely more expensive than just buying basic iron weapons (e.g. Iron Swords are 40 uses for 520G, so 13G each. Repairing an Iron+ forge costs 3 stones + 310G, so 610G in total, and has 45 uses - 13.6G per use). But in exchange you get +1 might and +10 hit (and for bows -1 weight) which helps a lot with both reliability, and the extra damage is nice sometimes.

 

Asides from that, I tend to carry around a smattering of other strong weapons for when you need more power. Silver(+), Killer, relics etc. Generally everyone has at least one high power option for when it's needed.

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28 minutes ago, Tables said:

Iron, and forged Iron, have been my bread and butter on most characters. Including the cost of buying the smithing stones needed to repair, and factoring in they have higher durability, Iron forges are barely more expensive than just buying basic iron weapons (e.g. Iron Swords are 40 uses for 520G, so 13G each. Repairing an Iron+ forge costs 3 stones + 310G, so 610G in total, and has 45 uses - 13.6G per use). But in exchange you get +1 might and +10 hit (and for bows -1 weight) which helps a lot with both reliability, and the extra damage is nice sometimes.

 

Asides from that, I tend to carry around a smattering of other strong weapons for when you need more power. Silver(+), Killer, relics etc. Generally everyone has at least one high power option for when it's needed.

This seems like a pretty good strategy to me. Forged iron for the fodder, and carrying around some extra power for when you need it. Do you ever find yourself using Steel weapons at all?

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I mostly use steel+ for arts because it often get into OHKO range, but evetually i am going to upgrade to silver.

I also tend to use gauntlet on everyone eho does not use magic,horses or bows, because they double dip on every damage boost, and i alway love the combo of stacking damage boost on a multihit attacks. Brave weapons are better but i am not sure if i can get the material to constantly repair them. Also, horsies can use them.

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2 hours ago, MegaGax said:

This seems like a pretty good strategy to me. Forged iron for the fodder, and carrying around some extra power for when you need it. Do you ever find yourself using Steel weapons at all?

Sometimes, yeah, but not a huge amount. They're heavy which limits doubling - but on the other hand they're pretty expendable for arts when you need a bit more power, but not enough to justify busting 1/4 of a relic in a single attack.

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My Fortress Knight Hilda is practically joined at the hip to her Steel Axe Plus, it has an absurd 65 uses and can one-round basically anyone. In general, though, I've relied on Iron Weapons Plus, and Training Weapons Plus, with a few odd extras (Levin Sword, Mini Bow Plus, Rapier) thrown in. Oh, and using Magic over weapons whenever they do just as well, because you don't have to buy or repair spells (taps forehead).

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Primarily used forged Steel weapons. Last few maps, though, I was abusing Brave Weapons and Levin Sword+ on Felix. Caspar loved his silver gauntlets a little too much, ended up breaking those a couple times, but considering he was critting every 2-3 hits? It was worth it. Cyril was also a major MVP, gave him Hauteclare and Brave Axe+ to murder things with. His resistance for a Wyvern Rider was insane as well, most mages would do only 10 damage to him.

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I've only beat Blue Lions so far, but here's my initial thoughts.

I've mainly used Forged Iron weapons for everyone. Then I typically gave one Steel weapon to use for Combat Arts (Cause higher durability). 
Some people with high enough Spd got Steel+ Weapons to use normally (Looking at you Felix). Late game probably could/should of moved everyone over to Steel.
Never used Silver. Not worth the cost for me.

Levin Sword+ was probably my best investment. 1-3 range is insane, especially when most spells are 1-2. Gave one to Ingrid as a Pegasus, and on some maps she could fly around behind walls sniping enemies.

I barely used the Heroes Relics, except when dealing with strong demonic beasts. Though it wasn't often because my magic users tore them to shreds.
Ingrid made use of a Brave Lance + Stride Gambit to rush across the map and kill a boss if the reinforcements got too intense.

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Into chapter 8, I've spent all my gold on gifts and bait so all I can afford are plain iron weapons, with a few forged ones here and there. Spent a fair bit on battalions too. All my Steel weapons so far have come from swirilies. Despite knowing you get free recharges at certain story points, I haven't used my relic weapon (nor Catherine's) a single time.

There's a bit of pot luck involved early on with whether the auxiliary battles you do award gold or ...meat.

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The game throws so much money at you and quite a lot of free resources. Twice now on normal and hard mode I have had >100,000g by the time I hit time skip and the game still manages to throw money at you with the rare beast fight maps that can net you like 5000-10,000 gold along with the bullions and regular funds such as quest completion and the monthly tournaments (which also get you free plus weapons). I usually run out of resource before anything.

The real reason to forge is for increased weapon usage and some minor accuracy gain imo (and repairs at the same time). The forge gains are so small.

Anyway, iron+ will easily work for any unit for a super long time. Sometimes you need that silver for getting into that ORKO range. Steel is too heavy. Way, way too heavy. I have not experimented with brave weapons. Might be more efficient and ltc, but not needed otherwise. I barely even have ever needed to use the unique weapons like Lance of Ruin since even on hard mode you have strong units and enough speed to ORKO most enemies. 

Edited by Vorena

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playing on Normal mode and having over leveled characters, I've been able to get by just fine with steel and iron weapons because of how easy the combat is and my units damage output being so powerful most of the time. I've barely used the Hero weapons, although I recently just fixed Catherine's Thunderbrand sword because I had her fight with it a bunch after I first recruited her without realizing I would eventually break it.

Got the spear from Sylvain's Paralogue and gave it to Lorenz, but I've hardly had Lorenz need to use it. same with Byleth's Sword of the Creator. I'd say on Normal mode, you only need to use these weapons on the monsters to break their shields easier? I guess Or bosses too. If the Hero relic weapons weren't such a pain to repair I'd probably use them more. I know you can rest to replenish Byleth's sword, but that just seems like such a waste of your free day, esp. pre-time skip mode when you wanna be using your free days for monastery exploration or auxiliary battles/Paralogues.

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23 minutes ago, xchickengirlx said:

Got the spear from Sylvain's Paralogue and gave it to Lorenz, but I've hardly had Lorenz need to use it. same with Byleth's Sword of the Creator. I'd say on Normal mode, you only need to use these weapons on the monsters to break their shields easier?

I have not fully tested the demonic beast shields, but the general thing is that they have routinely broken after any 2 rounds of combat. If there are no cracks, then an attack of any kind will crack it. If its not cracked, then you need 2 attacks to fully dislodge it. 

Granted, I am not sure how a 0 dmg move against it would work or if there are other ways to fully shatter it more quickly. However, that's what I have done is leave the heavy hitters alone and leave the light hitters to shield destruction. Doubling seems to have no effect on shield strength.

AoE gambits are pretty busted as they can attack more than one tile shattering multiple early game beast shields in one go as well as avoid counter attack.

Edited by Vorena

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Unless I am specifically desiring a particular weapon "right now," I use up the weapon and then head to the Forge to upgrade it when it gets low on uses. I tend to make great use of Iron weapons and Killer weapons. Late-game I may even delve into Silver Weapons, and currently I'm experimenting with a Spear for Dimitri. I haven't bothered with Brave Weapons yet (outside of Catherine's Thunderbrand).

One weapon I recommend using at all times is the Levin Sword+. The 1-3 range is insane, and if you equip a battalion that patches up the hit rate (such as the Macuil Evil Repelling Co.at Rank A Authority), it will serve you well. My Byleth soloed enemies on my first playthrough, and now my Dancer Lysithea is annihilating foes on my 2nd playthrough.

As for Relics and similar weapons, I tend to conserve uses. However, once they start piling up and I am entering the late-game, I begin to use them somewhat regularly in conjunction with my "normal weapons." I also abuse the fact that weapons will auto-repair during the timeskip (and the Sword of the Creator auto-repairs in certain parts of the story). If not for their low durability, I would probably use them more.

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Your units should almost always have a weapon that minimizes their AS loss, just so they have the option of hitting their maximum speed when they need to. The one exception is super fast units, who might find it acceptable to be permanently weighed down. Early in the game this will generally be Training+ (the upgrade gives -2 weight, so it's essential that you upgrade these ASAP), but later on you might be able to use Iron/Iron+ or possibly even Silver/Silver+ (if you have a weight reduction skill) as your primary weapon.

After that, fill the remaining slots with other weapons that are situationally useful. Early on this will probably just be things like Iron and Steel weapons for additional might, maybe a ranged weapon (though Hand Axes and Javelins in this game are real bad, so I don't even give them out most of the time, having a bow as a backup is fine though), or effective weaponry on chapters where it is relevant (no point in carrying a Mace around if there are no armors, but if there are, give your unit one in preps if they need it).

Later on, I find that the most useful supplemental weapons to my light weapon are Killer+ (if nothing is going to ORKO, at the very least you can roll for a 50% crit), Silver+ (all purpose high might), Brave/Brave+ (you don't want to spam these because Wootz Steel is quite valuable, but they're nice to have on hand for when the situation calls for it), and maybe a relic weapon. Of these, your light weapon (probably Iron+ at this point), Silver+, and Killer+ are your bread and butter weapons, as their materials are purchasable in infinite quantities. Your Brave and Relic weapons are your backups for when you need their damage output to get a kill. Don't spam them but don't worry about using them either.

Magic weapons are highly overrated. If your unit already has access to magic, then you already have a way to target res. Instead of using a Levin Sword you could have just cast a spell. In fact, your primary spellcasters will do better just casting spells than trying to attack with magic weaponry, as spells benefit from any Reason/Faith ranks that you might have achieved (as a spellcaster, Reason/Faith is probably one of your highest ranks) and can be boosted by Thrysus or Caduceus Staff. Magic weapons should primarily be used by physical units (who actually benefit from the ability to hit res, because they couldn't before) with an acceptably high magic growth that do not have access to spells. The list of units this applies to is... not that many.

Edited by Silly

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3 hours ago, Silly said:

Your units should almost always have a weapon that minimizes their AS loss, just so they have the option of hitting their maximum speed when they need to. The one exception is super fast units, who might find it acceptable to be permanently weighed down. Early in the game this will generally be Training+ (the upgrade gives -2 weight, so it's essential that you upgrade these ASAP), but later on you might be able to use Iron/Iron+ or possibly even Silver/Silver+ (if you have a weight reduction skill) as your primary weapon.

After that, fill the remaining slots with other weapons that are situationally useful. Early on this will probably just be things like Iron and Steel weapons for additional might, maybe a ranged weapon (though Hand Axes and Javelins in this game are real bad, so I don't even give them out most of the time, having a bow as a backup is fine though), or effective weaponry on chapters where it is relevant (no point in carrying a Mace around if there are no armors, but if there are, give your unit one in preps if they need it).

Later on, I find that the most useful supplemental weapons to my light weapon are Killer+ (if nothing is going to ORKO, at the very least you can roll for a 50% crit), Silver+ (all purpose high might), Brave/Brave+ (you don't want to spam these because Wootz Steel is quite valuable, but they're nice to have on hand for when the situation calls for it), and maybe a relic weapon. Of these, your light weapon (probably Iron+ at this point), Silver+, and Killer+ are your bread and butter weapons, as their materials are purchasable in infinite quantities. Your Brave and Relic weapons are your backups for when you need their damage output to get a kill. Don't spam them but don't worry about using them either.

Magic weapons are highly overrated. If your unit already has access to magic, then you already have a way to target res. Instead of using a Levin Sword you could have just cast a spell. In fact, your primary spellcasters will do better just casting spells than trying to attack with magic weaponry, as spells benefit from any Reason/Faith ranks that you might have achieved (as a spellcaster, Reason/Faith is probably one of your highest ranks) and can be boosted by Thrysus or Caduceus Staff. Magic weapons should primarily be used by physical units (who actually benefit from the ability to hit res, because they couldn't before) with an acceptably high magic growth that do not have access to spells. The list of units this applies to is... not that many.

Quite the informative post. Lots of helpful advice to be found here. Admittedly I hadn't even really delved into the killer weapons at all, but I may give them more of a shot. I was a bit disappointed about Javelins and Hand axes being so horrid, but their higher-level counterparts are at least somewhat respectable.

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Once Silvers have become readily available I find myself using them quite often. Killer Weapons are probably at their worst in 3H. Silvers, being lighter and stronger than steels and available early on, are very good all-purpose weapons. The only advantage irons and forged irons have over them is the ability to double with more characters.

Obviously Brave Weapons are good.

I tend to forge Irons early, once they become low enough on uses for the forge to make sense economically.

I don't plan on using hand axes or javelins in future playthroughs, but may use the Short Axe/Short Spear.

The Mace gets outclassed pretty quickly by the Hammer, and other than a few early armors (against which you'll likely have the Helm Splitter combat art...) I don't see what use the former has. It is really light, though.

Edited by De Geso

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49 minutes ago, De Geso said:

Once Silvers have become readily available I find myself using them quite often. Killer Weapons are probably at their worst in 3H. Silvers, being lighter and stronger than steels and available early on, are very good all-purpose weapons. The only advantage irons and forged irons have over them is the ability to double with more characters.

Obviously Brave Weapons are good.

I tend to forge Irons early, once they become low enough on uses for the forge to make sense economically.

I don't plan on using hand axes or javelins in future playthroughs, but may use the Short Axe/Short Spear.

The Mace gets outclassed pretty quickly by the Hammer, and other than a few early armors (against which you'll likely have the Helm Splitter combat art...) I don't see what use the former has. It is really light, though.

While I dislike using Killers myself, this is arguably one of their better games.
Killer+ has 35 crit and they're repairable with materials you can buy in bulk.
That's the highest in the series to my knowledge, and they're more readily available than ever.

Main drawback is that they're on par with Steel weight-wise and do slightly less damage.
That is...actually a first. I recall them being lighter while dealing as much damage in other games with weapon weight.

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4 minutes ago, Technoweirdo said:

While I dislike using Killers myself, this is arguably one of their better games.
Killer+ has 35 crit and they're repairable with materials you can buy in bulk.
That's the highest in the series to my knowledge, and they're more readily available than ever.

Main drawback is that they're on par with Steel weight-wise and do slightly less damage.
That is...actually a first. I recall them being lighter while dealing as much damage in other games with weapon weight.

The high crit rate is nice, but normally Killers are so good because, as you said, they're lighter than Steel weapons and have equal if not better might. The crit rate is gravy (outside of corner cases like Fates berserkers where you have 90 crit and one shot anything).

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The main niche of Killer weapons in this game is when your units can't ORKO. If you can grab the ORKO with a different weapon without relying on a crit, then obviously just do that.

Sometimes you run into that sweet spot where if you use a low weight weapon, then you don't have enough enough might to kill the enemy, and if you use a heavier weapon you stop doubling and miss the ORKO. These situations crop up not infrequently, in which case you can try to roll for a 50+% crit with a Killer+ weapon. This becomes more reliable as you stack other sources of crit on top, such as Crit +10 from weapon rank, as well as any potential class skills.

Sometimes it doesn't work, and you're left with a weakened enemy that somebody else can easily finish off. Other times you crit and get the kill, which frees up the action of your second unit so that they can do something else. It's not guaranteed but is better than using a silver weapon, not getting the KO guaranteed, and always needing a second unit to follow up.

----------------------------------

Also, the Mace is a lot better than Helm Splitter. Helm Splitter is pretty bad because it doesn't double, so I've basically never run into a situation where it is the correct move. Later on the Hammer is obviously better, but early in the game the Mace is pretty decent.

Edited by Silly

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10 minutes ago, De Geso said:

The high crit rate is nice, but normally Killers are so good because, as you said, they're lighter than Steel weapons and have equal if not better might. The crit rate is gravy (outside of corner cases like Fates berserkers where you have 90 crit and one shot anything).

Funny you mention Fates, because it was one of the worst games for both killer weapons and Berserkers.

Anyway, I'm still early, so of course I've been using Training and Iron weapons primarily. Byleth does have a Steel Sword+ for when I want to weaken something for someone else or if I need a lot of damage via combat arts.

Edited by Shadow Mir

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I completely benched the Relics because they're terrible. Not terrible in terms of raw power, mind you, but terrible because of how much it costs you to repair them: 20 measly uses + ridiculously rare materials you can only get if you fully break a monster's barrier (with no guarantee you'll even get the right material for the Relic you would want to repair) + a shitload of money = I'm not going to use that. Like ever.

Otherwise, my go to weaponry is the free Steel something+ and later Silver something+ you get from participating in relevant tournaments at the monastery. Repairing those is fairly cheap and they come with more uses and more power than regular Steel or Silver weapons. I like to keep these things simple and efficient; that's the curse of being the son of an accountant.
EDIT: Forgot to mention everyone else who doesn't get a Steel something+ or Silver something+: If I have the materials to spare, I usually forge one of those for them or just use regular weaponry. On some characters, I even like to keep standard Iron weapons, because don't have much weight compared to Steel weapons especially.

Edited by DragonFlames

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8 minutes ago, Shadow Mir said:

Funny you mention Fates, because it was one of the worst games for both killer weapons and Berserkers.

Anyway, I'm still early, so of course I've been using Training and Iron weapons primarily. Byleth does have a Steel Sword+ for when I want to weaken something for someone else or if I need a lot of damage via combat arts.

The might loss on Killers in Fates is more than made up for by being able to actually double.

You are just wrong, and oddly obdurate, about Berserkers in Fates. But I don't want to get into this discussion again, lol.

Also - I misremembered Killers in 3H having less might than Steel Weapons, they have the same might (swords do, anyway). Still, I think they're kind of heavy and would rather use a Silver or Brave weapon. Well, except for Combat Arts - Brave Weapon don't get the doubling effect with Combat Arts, so using Braves with them is usually a bad call.

Edited by De Geso

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Looking at the forge paths. Had anyone really tried to upgrade existing weapons instead of buying the same in the armory?

IE. Hand Axe to Short Axe

Also, has anyone actually needed a longbow?

Do we have decent candidates for magic weapons?

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