Best final classes for all units, regardless of house?

[UltimateOtaku]

As I tend to recruit every unit that I can (Right now I have every student in a BL playthrough), I was wondering what you guys think are the best classes for units. So far from what I've seen, it goes something like this. (There are very few, mind you)

Lysithea - Gremory

Lorenz - Dark Knight (Probably)

Raph - Probably War Master?

Doro - Dancer or Gremory?

Marianne - Holy Knight

Bernadette/Any Archer - Bow Knight (Leonie too)

Catherine -  I personally love her as an Assassin

 

Not sure what else, honestly. I struggle, a lot. 

[Flere210]

Playing blue lions

Felix: war master or swordmaster. 

Dedue: the absolute best would be great knight whit quick riposte, but Straight GK or WM would both work whitout getting 300 skill ranks.

Sylvain: i heard Wyvern lord a lot, but that class is broken. Dark knight seems a good alternative.

Annette: dancer or dark knight.

Mercedes: Gremory

Ashe: bow knight, whit death blow if possible

Ingrid: Falcon knight

[Vitezen]

I don't think anyone is optimal as a dancer. Dancer functions by sacrificing their turn to give a better unit another turn. Dancer should be reserved for the unit that got the most RNG screwed, in order to minimize opportunity cost. If all of your units somehow turned out perfect, then maybe you might want to decide who is the best fit in terms of stats. But at that point, if all of your units are perfect, why do you need a dancer?

Edited August 12, 2019 by Vitezen

[Chaotix]

1 hour ago, Vitezen said:

I don't think anyone is optimal as a dancer. Dancer functions by sacrificing their turn to give a better unit another turn. Dancer should be reserved for the unit that got the most RNG screwed, in order to minimize opportunity cost. If all of your units somehow turned out perfect, then maybe you might want to decide who is the best fit in terms of stats. But at that point, if all of your units are perfect, why do you need a dancer?

Dancer is not just useful for their Dance ability, it's one of the only non-mounted magic using classes to get 6 move (the other being Mortal Savant). So for some mages it might be preferable to Dark Knight or Gremory, either because you don't want to invest the time into ranking up Riding skill, or because the class isn't available. They also have high charm, so you can pull off some very powerful gambits with them.  

You could feasibly run a Dancer that never uses the Dance ability (or more likely, that only uses it occasionally) and have it work better than Gremory or Dark Knight or Mortal Savant.

[Vorena]

6 hours ago, Flere210 said:

Sylvain: i heard Wyvern lord a lot, but that class is broken. Dark knight seems a good alternative.

I like this one. A class is so broken one cannot recommend it as the best class for a unit.

[Silly]

The best class for pretty much every unit is whichever "OP" class they can access the easiest.

For physical units the two best classes currently are Wyvern Lord and Bow Knight. Falcon Knight is slightly worse than Wyvern Lord but is also pretty good. These classes just have way too many advantages over the others for it to be "best" to pick something else most of the time.

For magic units, Dark Knight is the best all-around class, and for the most part is better than Holy Knight. If you really need x2 uses on your magic, Gremory is also good. If you're a male warper (AKA Lindhart), Bishop is acceptable as well.

1 hour ago, Vitezen said:

I don't think anyone is optimal as a dancer. Dancer functions by sacrificing their turn to give a better unit another turn. Dancer should be reserved for the unit that got the most RNG screwed, in order to minimize opportunity cost. If all of your units somehow turned out perfect, then maybe you might want to decide who is the best fit in terms of stats. But at that point, if all of your units are perfect, why do you need a dancer?

Having one dancer is optimal, as there are things that an extra turn can do that makes it better than even your best unit. For example, a dancer can boost the movement of one of your units significantly (move, dance, then move again, allowing someone super long reach in one turn), which is not something you can do if you only have regular units. Plus, after mastery, dancing someone gives them +4 speed for the turn, which is really good. Who your dancer ends up being is mostly irrelevant though, as 99% of the strength of a dancer comes from being able to dance, which you can do regardless of what your stats are. You should really just make whoever your 10th best unit is into a dancer, because their stats are irrelevant.

[UltimateOtaku]

Exactly what makes Wyvern Lord as broken as it is? 

[Flere210]

40 minutes ago, Vorena said:

I like this one. A class is so broken one cannot recommend it as the best class for a unit.

This is mostly me having an axe(pun unintended) to grind with intsys terrible class balance. They just need terrains to give a good def bonus to balance flight, and yet we are 16 games in and they stillhave 1 def in forest and noting on plain.

[Silly]

1 hour ago, UltimateOtaku said:

Exactly what makes Wyvern Lord as broken as it is? 

8 move and canto, plus no terrain penalties makes Wyvern Lord the most mobile class in the game (tied with Falcon Knight).

Very, very strong, since axes have high might and the class comes with Axefaire as well as an innate +4 strength bonus. The only class with higher strength than it is War Master, with a +5 bonus. But War Masters aren't as fast, and don't have nearly the same range of movement as Wyvern Lord does.

Very fast. For some reason Wyvern Lord is the second fastest class in the game (behind Falcon Knight) with an innate +4 speed bonus. It also has a base speed of 20, so anybody who is really slow (looking at your Raphael) can fix their speed by promoting to Wyvern Lord, which bumps their minimum speed up to 20+4. And unlike Falcon Knights, Wyvern Lords are stronger and bulkier (though Falcon Knight is a pretty good class itself).

Fairly bulky. +2 HP and +3 Def as innate bonuses helps the class take hits fairly well, and while dedicated tank classes take hits better than Wyverns, they don't do anything else nearly as well. Great Knight has +5 Def over Wyvern Lord, but Wyvern Lord has +8 Spd on the Great Knight, which means that you will double and ORKO a lot more often than you would as a Great Knight.

Basically, you have a class that is fast and strong enough to reliably ORKO the vast majority of enemies you come across, bulky enough to fight multiple enemies on enemy phase without dying, and with high enough mobility to basically always position itself where you need it to be.

And you don't even really have a bow weakness, because if you can't just murder the archer on player phase, you can always choose to dismount in this game to remove your bow weakness.

Edited August 12, 2019 by Silly

[virtu333]

37 minutes ago, Silly said:

8 move and canto, plus no terrain penalties makes Wyvern Lord the most mobile class in the game (tied with Falcon Knight).

Very, very strong, since axes have high might and the class comes with Axefaire as well as an innate +4 strength bonus. The only class with higher strength than it is War Master, with a +5 bonus. But War Masters aren't as fast, and don't have nearly the same range of movement as Wyvern Lord does.

Very fast. For some reason Wyvern Lord is the second fastest class in the game (behind Falcon Knight) with an innate +4 speed bonus. It also has a base speed of 20, so anybody who is really slow (looking at your Raphael) can fix their speed by promoting to Wyvern Lord, which bumps their minimum speed up to 20+4. And unlike Falcon Knights, Wyvern Lords are stronger and bulkier (though Falcon Knight is a pretty good class itself).

Fairly bulky. +2 HP and +3 Def as innate bonuses helps the class take hits fairly well, and while dedicated tank classes take hits better than Wyverns, they don't do anything else nearly as well. Great Knight has +5 Def over Wyvern Lord, but Wyvern Lord has +8 Spd on the Great Knight, which means that you will double and ORKO a lot more often than you would as a Great Knight.

Basically, you have a class that is fast and strong enough to reliably ORKO the vast majority of enemies you come across, bulky enough to fight multiple enemies on enemy phase without dying, and with high enough mobility to basically always position itself where you need it to be.

And you don't even really have a bow weakness, because if you can't just murder the archer on player phase, you can always choose to dismount in this game to remove your bow weakness.

Aaaand one more thing - Alert Stance+

Right now, on hard, generic enemy hit rates top out at 115 or so. With endgame speed (37+), alert stance 3, endgame battalion (10-15), evasion ring, and an A support or 2, you easily hit 100+ avoid and can dodge tank everything.

Tack on flying and dismounting onto a defensive terrain tile and you've got a recipe for a crazy strong class.

But I agree basically that it's do you go bow knight, or wyvern? Based on proficiency, you choose one of the other, then raise Authority to get busted battalions.

Example:

Edelgard - Wyvern (axe prof)

Dimitri - Bow Knight (riding/lance prof)

Claude - Bow Knight (you get a free wyvern upgrade at promotion)

Leonie: Bow Knight (lance/bow/riding prof)

Petra: Wyvern Lord (axe/flying prof, bow prof)

Sylvain: Wyvern Lord (axe/lance prof)

Felix: Bow Knight (Assassin sidegrade - bow prof)

Ingrid: Wyvern Lord (she needs that strength, usually - flying/lance prof)

Byleth is an interesting one - I do think it's easier to pull of Bow Knight and it tends to be the class I prefer on him. Partially because level 10 cav life is really strong.

For mages, it's usually Bishop, Gremory, or Dark Knight.

Edited August 12, 2019 by virtu333

[Shadow Mir]

1 hour ago, Flere210 said:

This is mostly me having an axe(pun unintended) to grind with intsys terrible class balance. They just need terrains to give a good def bonus to balance flight, and yet we are 16 games in and they stillhave 1 def in forest and noting on plain.

Hey, I agree, but my biggest gripe with regard to class balance is that axe infantry, and the units in them, tend to suck. Do they really have to lack everywhere but Strength and HP???

[Jayvee94]

@Von Ithipathachai has compiled his class recommendations on his thread.

It's all in this link.

[Silly]

Those class recommendations are if you wanted to stick to unit "strengths", but if you actually just wanted the best classes then it makes a lot of subpar choices. For example, pretty much every unit with an axe proficiency is actually better off going Wyvern Lord as their endgame class (unless they have a flying weakness), since that class is so much better than the others.

Holy Knight is also generally an inferior endgame class to Dark Knight, so it shouldn't really be recommended except in very specific circumstances.

Edited August 13, 2019 by Silly

[afreaknamedpete]

Avoid attacking on wyvern lords can get pretty insane. 

Dancer gives you a skill that gives a flat 20 avoid just for having a sword equipped. Ferdinand gives 15 avoid for full health.  15 for sword battery. 40 avoid for alert stance. 10 for the ring. 

Provided you have the skills for it that's a flat 100 avoid on Ferdinand if you make him a dancer, then another 20 with the Aegir battalion for a flat 120 with a sword equipped. If you don't leave him as a dancer you can also do the 120 avoid build as a flying unit, with another 10 avoid passive but you can't use the optimal battalion for it.

[wissenschaft]

This is the dream game for me since Wyvern Lord is by far my favorite class. I wish malig knight was an option for mage characters. But having a mount is reason enough to pick dark knight for your mages. Holy Knight suffers from not being able to cast black magic but the alternative is 4 movement mage classes. It can work given the options for long range magic attacks and stride but still annoying. Honestly, cavalry units got nerfed hard in this game because of the -10% speed growth they suffer. I'd avoid the class and instead aim for the classes which boost speed growth such as swordmaster and hero. the advance classes provide a lot of great class mastery skills.

 For mounted units I'd stick with the flying units such as Falcon Knights and Wyvern Lords  but having some intermediate classes such as Swordmasters and Heroes is not a bad option at all. Feel free to forgo a master class since they are often side grades at best.

Edited August 15, 2019 by wissenschaft

[Silly]

I would not recommend sticking with primarily advanced tier classes. Some of them are actually pretty acceptable endgame classes, but a lot of them have significant drawbacks compared to options you could have had in master tier.

Many of the advanced classes are simply just held back by their mobility. For example, Swordmaster seems really cool until you realize that it has 5 move, which means that its going to fall behind your 7-8 move mounts, and even your 6 move foot units.

[wissenschaft]

All in all, being stuck with 5 movement tends to just means I take a turn or two to wait as my foot soldiers catch up. It doesn't really make much of a difference to me. Its not like missions have time limits forcing you to rush. Stride also helps a lot in getting my slower units to keep up which is how I tend to use it.

Edited August 15, 2019 by wissenschaft