Complaints about Edelgard's Route are Overhyped

[CyberNinja]

10 minutes ago, dragonlordsd said:

Please do not enact these feelings in real life. 😉

Personally I quite enjoyed Edlgards ability to speak candidly with Dimitry of her intent to burn his country to the ground and his dogged refusal to pick up on it or at least get she was serious.

[dragonlordsd]

2 minutes ago, CyberNinja said:

Personally I quite enjoyed Edlgards ability to speak candidly with Dimitry of her intent to burn his country to the ground and his dogged refusal to pick up on it or at least get she was serious.

Lol, yup.

You never think it will be you... until the fire nation flame emperor attacks.

[Sigruts]

Only problem I have with the black Eagle campaign is that they cut part of it out

Spoiler

Where you destroy the underground faction

I went this route the first play through and thoroughly enjoyed it, rhea seemed like the villain to me from the get go falling into a fel-dragon type category ( insanity, manipulation, etc) 

[DragonFlames]

4 hours ago, dragonlordsd said:

Please do not enact these feelings in real life. 😉

Of course! I'm raising an army as we speak! Lol

Nah, I'd never do the stuff she does irl. I never said I agree with her methods either. Just that some of her points make sense to me.
Same with everyone else, really.
All things considered, Three Houses is an extremely well written game. Discussions such as these are proof of that. In my opinion, at least.

@TimlugiaI have seen that you replied to me, but I'll hold off on reading the spoiler as I haven't played the Church Route yet (which I'm assuming the spoilers are for).

[Snack]

Their spoiler was for Golden Deer actually; I don't think it comes up on the church route although GD is the only one I've played fully myself so far.

Anyway, I think that for the most part people's concerns about Edelgard's route being overemphasized were about pre-release information; Edelgard and the Black Eagles in general were the most heavily pushed of the three in most of the preview videos that Nintendo put out and most of the reviews/previews seemed to be from their route. At least for me though, after having finishing Golden Deer and hearing about most of the major events on the other routes, I don't really believe they showed favoritism towards Edelgard's route; if anything it does sound like it got a little shortchanged compared to the others, and it makes me wonder if the Black Eagles route may have at some point been intended to be a bait-and-switch one. Though I still kinda suspect that if they do any more set in Fodlan Edelgard's route will be the one that gets treated as canon to be honest.

[Etrurian emperor]

If anything I'd say Edelgard's route suffers from a lack of favoritism rather than an abundance of it. The story and characters are all great but due to being given less chapters its not given the time and attention it deserves. Claude and the Alliance only last two chapters and the fights against Dimitri lasts only barely longer than that. 

[MrPerson0]

On 8/13/2019 at 3:01 AM, Tharne said:

If I develop a game where a fairly big portion of the game is about talking to your students/exploring the monastery, I intend for people to at least talk to each student every month and build a basic relationship with them, especially the Lord of their House. 

The issue is people might not support her/give her gifts to increase supports. Doesn't help that in battles, because Byleth can give gifts, it takes much longer to reach a certain support rank than other students getting a support with each other. This is basically Kaze living or dying in Fates all over again, and I don't think anyone liked that.

On 8/13/2019 at 7:26 AM, DragonFlames said:

abolish the system where people with crests are only revered because of their crests and not because of their qualities, and people without crests are treated worse than trash, especially if they're noble - a system that was deliberately created by the church from the looks of it

The funny thing is, the Church actually was actively treating everyone equally in Garreg Mach (Seteth says this on the first day you leave your room). Edelgard blames the church for this, but the blame actually lies on the humans because they will always try to find a way to discriminate each other through power.

Edited August 14, 2019 by MrPerson0

[Tharne]

15 minutes ago, MrPerson0 said:

The issue is people might not support her/give her gifts to increase supports. Doesn't help that in battles, because Byleth can give gifts, it takes much longer to reach a certain support rank than other students getting a support with each other.

To instruct you have to raise Motivation, when you raise Motivation you raise support. If people don't get the requirement before month 11, they are rushing/not paying attention and have only themselves to blame, imo. (Comparing Kaze to the most important unit in your roster is not valid in my opinion, and again by just playing the game how it's intended to be played, you will obtain the necessary requirement) 

 

Also agree with your second point about the Church.

Edited August 14, 2019 by Tharne

[Loki Laufeyson]

On August 13, 2019 at 12:21 AM, Crysta said:

I mean, I kind of liked that they put emphasis on the female lord in the promotional content? AND they made her the more morally gray of the three. I thought it was pretty ballsy lol.

 

Absolutely. 

But the reason i think BE route was pushed commercially, was that it leads to the Church route which is rather Byleth-centric in its narrative. You are likely more interested in why your self insert is basically scooped up by the fucking pope of this world and treated like Christ. But Edelgard being a rather attractive lord with a no nonsense attitude being in front of all of that suited Nintendo  Lets face it, folx are kinda tired of main protags that are hyper visible being dudes :v:

 

[Strullemia]

49 minutes ago, MrPerson0 said:

The funny thing is, the Church actually was actively treating everyone equally in Garreg Mach (Seteth says this on the first day you leave your room). Edelgard blames the church for this, but the blame actually lies on the humans because they will always try to find a way to discriminate each other through power.

Not really since the church manipulated the truth.

Spoiler

Crests would never have been revered or valued if people knew that their "elite ancestors" were monsters that committed genocide.

 

[MrPerson0]

5 minutes ago, Hekselka said:

Spoiler

Crests would never have been revered or valued if people knew that their "elite ancestors" were monsters that committed genocide.

 

Spoiler

How do you know this? In FE history (and our history), humans will always turn to weapons that give them an edge over others for power/discrimination. Do people honestly believe that Ingrid, Mercedes', etc. situation would be any different if crests weren't around? There would still be discrimination through money, land, and weapons, along with TWSitD still handing around performing experiments on people.

 

Edited August 14, 2019 by MrPerson0

[Strullemia]

1 minute ago, MrPerson0 said:

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How do you know this? In FE history (and our history), humans will always turn to weapons that give them an edge over others for power/discrimination. Do people honestly believe that Ingrid, Mercedes', etc. situation would be any different if crests weren't around?

 

Spoiler

Modern times and middle ages aren't really the same thing. If Rhea didn't held back info about the crests and their history then crests wouldn't have been glorified and wouldn't have been much of a status symbol...because who wants to be known as one of the descendants that served the guy that committed genocide? 

In the context of this game? Yes. The reason Ingrid had so much political power despite being born in a failing house is that she has a crest. If she was a noble without a crest no noble would want her. Same for Mercedes, she got adopted by a merchant who sought out to have more status by marrying of because she has a crest. If she didn't have one she could have stayed at the church which she seemed happy at.

 

[MrPerson0]

15 minutes ago, Hekselka said:

  Hide contents

Spoiler

Modern times and middle ages aren't really the same thing. If Rhea didn't held back info about the crests and their history then crests wouldn't have been glorified and wouldn't have been much of a status symbol...because who wants to be known as one of the descendants that served the guy that committed genocide? 

In the context of this game? Yes. The reason Ingrid had so much political power despite being born in a failing house is that she has a crest. If she was a noble without a crest no noble would want her. Same for Mercedes, she got adopted by a merchant who sought out to have more status by marrying of because she has a crest. If she didn't have one she could have stayed at the church which she seemed happy at.

 

 

Spoiler

 

I agree about modern times and middle ages not being the same thing, which is  why I also reference other FE history as well. Also, everyone knows that Nemesis committed genocide, but they still revere him. It's not farfetched to believe that humans would hold up the crests and hero relics as symbols of power.

For Ingrid, all the blame lies on her father for trying to push her to other nobles. This is a terrible attitude which is normally seen among nobles in general anyway. In the case of Mercedes, guess that is true, but it seems she truly cared for her half-brother that came out of it.

 

 

Edited August 14, 2019 by MrPerson0

[Strullemia]

2 minutes ago, MrPerson0 said:

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I agree about modern times and middle ages not being the same thing, which is  why I also reference other FE history as well. Also, everyone knows that Nemesis committed genocide, but they still revere him. It's not farfetched to believe that humans would hold up the crests and hero relics as symbols of power.

For Ingrid, all the blame lies on her father for trying to push her to other nobles. This is a terrible attitude which is normally seen among nobles in general anyway. In the case of Mercedes, guess that is true, but it seems she truly cared for her half-brother that came out of it.

 

 

Spoiler

In FE4 people with Loptyr blood get hunted down, they are the descendant of Gele, the emperor who made a blood pact with a really evil dragon so that he could forcefully make an empire.

12 other dragons ended up giving their blood to 12 human holy knights to fight the emperor Gele. They ended up defeating him and bringing peace.

After the holy warriors won they made efforts to get rid of those who worship Loptyr or/and have his blood.

If we're to use other FE History I believe crest bearers would be treated much much worse had the truth about their origin been known

-----------------------------

Yes, it's the fault of her father, that's true but if crests didn't exist her father would never even have had that bargaining chip to begin with.

 

[DragonFlames]

15 hours ago, MrPerson0 said:

The funny thing is, the Church actually was actively treating everyone equally in Garreg Mach (Seteth says this on the first day you leave your room). Edelgard blames the church for this, but the blame actually lies on the humans because they will always try to find a way to discriminate each other through power.

That is true.
I've finished the Golden Deer and I have to revise my opinion of the Edelgard route a bit. I still like it (because being the villain for once is fun), but... uh, maybe I should have reserved judgement until I knew the full story.

[GamerX51]

18 hours ago, MrPerson0 said:

The funny thing is, the Church actually was actively treating everyone equally in Garreg Mach (Seteth says this on the first day you leave your room). Edelgard blames the church for this, but the blame actually lies on the humans because they will always try to find a way to discriminate each other through power.

The church may have been treating everyone equally in the Monastery, but they sure weren't doing much to address the root cause of the discrimination either.  In fact, they were taking advantage of it to provide Rhea/Seiros with human guinea pigs for her "get mommy back" experiments, of which Edelgard and her entire family were victims.

In my mind, Rhea lost any claim she had to the moral high ground the moment she decided that it was okay for her to sacrifice innocent people. Nemesis' actions in regards to the genocide of Zanado in no way justifies her response in sacrificing Edelgard's family, not to mention her attempt to sacrifice Byleth as well.

[MrPerson0]

7 minutes ago, GamerX51 said:

In fact, they were taking advantage of it to provide Rhea/Seiros with human guinea pigs for her "get mommy back" experiments, of which Edelgard and her entire family were victims.

 

Spoiler

TWSitD were the ones who experimented on Edelgard and her family (Arundel has been Thales for a while apparently). They were the ones who created the crests and hero relics, and they were the ones who kept on experimenting on people. Rhea was doing her own thing by creating clones using the Crest of Flames she procured from Nemesis. AFAIK, she didn't sacrifice innocent people. Also, we only have her word in terms of what happened during Byleth's birth, so we can only assume that they were truly stillborn, and their mother (the 12th clone) wanted Byleth to live, which is when Rhea transplanted the Crest of Flames onto Byleth, which was conveniently the best way to get the proper vessel for Byleth (due to Jeralt having Rhea's blood).

 

Edited August 15, 2019 by MrPerson0

[GamerX51]

20 minutes ago, MrPerson0 said:

 

  Hide contents

TWSitD were the ones who experimented on Edelgard and her family (Arundel has been Thales for a while apparently). They were the ones who created the crests and hero relics, and they were the ones who kept on experimenting on people. Rhea was doing her own thing by creating clones using the Crest of Flames she procured from Nemesis. AFAIK, she didn't sacrifice innocent people. Also, we only have her word in terms of what happened during Byleth's birth, so we can only assume that they were truly stillborn, and their mother (the 12th clone) wanted Byleth to live, which is when Rhea transplanted the Crest of Flames onto Byleth, which was conveniently the best way to get the proper vessel for Byleth (due to Jeralt having Rhea's blood).

 

None of that matters in the long run; Thales (as Arundel ) performed those experiments AS PART OF RHEA'S PLAN to resurrect Sothis. Rhea just didn't know that "Arundel" had other motives; none of this excuses her actions.

Edited August 15, 2019 by GamerX51

[Book Bro]

I loved choosing this as my first route, but it definitely feels like it's missing content. The Alliance was dealt with far too quickly and both Claude and Dimitri barely show up. TWSITD/Arundel were built up and were dealt with in the epilogue, when they should've been part of the story. We should've seen more of Edelgard wrestling with her guilt over needing them to achieve her goals and finally being able to take them down after assuring her victory over Rhea. It's odd to me that this route feels so incomplete. Still had a blast and it's a huge step up from recent games.

[Tharne]

40 minutes ago, GamerX51 said:

None of that matters in the long run; Thales (as Arundel ) performed those experiments AS PART OF RHEA'S PLAN to resurrect Sothis. Rhea just didn't know that "Arundel" had other motives; none of this excuses her actions.

What are you talking about ??? TWSITD don't work with rhea at all.

Edited August 15, 2019 by Tharne

[MrPerson0]

1 hour ago, GamerX51 said:

Thales (as Arundel ) performed those experiments AS PART OF RHEA'S PLAN to resurrect Sothis.

Er, what? TWSitD were against Rhea and the Church. Why would they want to resurrect Sothis even though they were the ones to kill her in the first place? They simply wanted to destroy the church/all dragon kind.

[GamerX51]

Rhea didn't know about TWSITD's involvement, but they WERE operating under the auspices of Rhea's secret crest research project, which involved church personnel in many different countries, not just in Garragh Mach. Her ignorance of their presence is not an adequate defense for all the harm they caused.

[Tharne]

2 minutes ago, GamerX51 said:

Rhea didn't know about TWSITD's involvement, but they WERE operating under the auspices of Rhea's secret crest research project, which involved church personnel in many different countries, not just in Garragh Mach. Her ignorance of their presence is not an adequate defense for all the harm they caused.

I think you misunderstood something with the game's plot and lore here.

[GamerX51]

2 hours ago, MrPerson0 said:

Er, what? TWSitD were against Rhea and the Church. Why would they want to resurrect Sothis even though they were the ones to kill her in the first place? They simply wanted to destroy the church/all dragon kind.

You misunderstand; TWSitD wasn't trying to resurrect Sothis..... Rhea was, and they simply used her secret project as a means to turn the Imperial Family against the church. Thales was playing a long game of 4D chess here, and Rhea was too obsessed with her mommy issues to notice.

Edited August 15, 2019 by GamerX51

[Tharne]

33 minutes ago, GamerX51 said:

Rhea's secret crest research project, which involved church personnel in many different countries, not just in Garragh Mach.

 

27 minutes ago, GamerX51 said:

they simply used her secret project 

This is stated nowhere in the game. (If so point me to it.)

What we know is that Rhea created 12 bodies (throughout the ages most probably) which she implanted with the Crest Stone of Sothis, that's it. She never did anything with Crests themselves. (Crest Stone =/= Crest)

The Crest research to gift people two crests is entirely on TWSITD, since they were the one to create them for Humans to begin with.

Edited August 15, 2019 by Tharne