Jump to content

New Heroes Arrive: Brave Echoes (August 16th)


Fire Emblem Fan
 Share

Recommended Posts

27 minutes ago, XRay said:

I am not a huge fan of the Spd+12 because you can only rely on it once. Once she eats a counterattack, her nuking ability drops like a rock.

The only enemies that should be able to dent her that much are bow/dagger units (which she shouldn’t be attacking anyway unless they’re on a horse or are armored) and distant counter users/dragons (which apart from dragons are uncommon outside of Arena/Aether Raids) and the horse and cavalry ones she should be one shotting apart from a few high resistance reds. Personally my priority isn’t Arena/AR, so distant countering is less of an issue in general (and even in AR my speedy blue Micaiah is very useful on defense because no one expects her to be fast enough to double them), but I still think “you can only rely on it once” is a stretch.

Edit because I forgot that dagger units existed for second

Edited by kirauza343
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 81
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

25 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

You clearly have never faced all-beast teams. They're extremely dangerous and difficult to counter, even if they might be weak to bows or cavalry/armor effective weapons. I'm not even FTP and like I said, I struggle against them. And when I used a laguz team in arena, they mopped the floor with everything easily. Eliwood brings a way to counter them on top of also being a counter to the also extremely dangerous fallen Corrin and fallen Tiki, who can often defeat even Falchion users. Mine have died to them. Oh yeah, didn't think to mention this before, but just as IS eventually added generic enemy dragons to the game, generic enemy beasts will probably eventually be there too.

Alm will probably be the least picked since he's the millionth infantry sword wielder.

Camilla will probably not be picked as much because most FTP people picked Veronica last year who offers similar stuff and is used in a ton of FTP videos, including the abyssal maps you mention.

Micaiah might be picked a fair bit due to what you're saying, though. She does have more to offer than the two I mentioned above. But Eliwood's anti-beast weapon is just more valuable.

The problem with your argument is that the playerbase covers a much wider spectrum of player types than you may think. Eliwood may be more valuable for players like you and me who have not only been playing a long while but are playing in the upper tiers of Arena/AA/AR where beasts are more prevalent, but Micaiah will be far more valuable for overall content which applies to virtually any player below us. That's new players, players at the halfway point and players that are just starting to tackle the tougher content. That's actually a far bigger group of players believe it or not.

Camilla is best for the newest players, Eliwood is best for the elite/veterans and Micaiah is best for pretty much everyone in between (and some of the vets/newbies too).

She's definitely the most valuable pick. And I don't even like her.

Edited by Zeo
Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 minutes ago, Zeo said:

Micaiah will be far more valuable for overall content

How so? Maybe she'd technically be more valuable for abyssal maps. But to me, Eliwood looks more useful for just about any other mode/content besides that. And I'd rather have someone who's better in a lot of modes rather than just one mode.

13 minutes ago, Zeo said:

She's definitely the most valuable pick. And I don't even like her.

I don't like her either, yeah. But I'm not trying to be biased against her, just saying. I'm not even a huge fan of Eliwood either, I like Alm more than him. But I know Alm stands out the least of these four.

Edited by Anacybele
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Micaiah will obviously be the F2P pick. Armor and Cavalry Effectiveness is infinitely more useful than Dragons and Beasts. We have plenty of Dragonslayers and there's only a handful of beasts in the game, with there being 0 in PVE content like GHB and LHBs. Micaiah is the easy winner. B!Camilla will be a popular choice as well, but it's clearly between those two. Eliwood offers nothing for a F2P player that any other Lance Cav won't give them~

Really don't like Hidari's art but Dong's coming home~

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, JSND Alter Dragon Boner said:

Micaiah might be unique or some shit but Camilla is such a clear cut by far the best unit of this batch its not even funny to think about. I seriously doubt Brave Eliwood is even half as good as his borderline gamebreaking Legendary Version even if he's admitedly pretty solid. Still would pick him since i'm probbaly wrong but eh

I feel like IS finally got the formula down - to make a unit broken you don't have to give them flashy skills or unique movement type or stupid shit like that. Just make them a Healer because who fucking knew an uncounterable nuclear bomb is basically broken

BE!Camilla is nice, but as a healer, she got mobility issues without access to movement Assists. Even with Sanngriðr/Gravity, it is not enough fully offset the loss of Reposition in my opinion.

1 hour ago, Anacybele said:

Going with Alm for the free pick and I'll pull for Eliwood since I want to pull blues right now anyway for other reasons. But why do people think Micaiah will be the most common free pick here? I think it'll clearly be Eliwood, that dragon + beast effective damage is extremely valuable because beast-effective weapons are super rare right now. And FTP people will need something good against beast teams which can be pretty damn threatening. I know I could use it, I have trouble against all beast teams, especially when Reyson or Leanne are in the mix.

Melee infantry units without Distant Counter are kind of crap, and sword infantry in particular are just garbage. They are not garbage because of their performance, they are garbage because we already have so much of them already that do the same stuff. As @kirauza343 mentioned, beast effectiveness does not matter in FTP guides because there are no generic beast enemies yet, so that is why BE!Alm BE!Eliwood would not be picked for FTP reasons. For similar reasons, BE!Eliwood BE!Alm brings nothing valuable to the table. Strong combat performance is a dime a dozen. Blade mages and Reinhardt got that covered.

For FTP guides, I suspect the pick will either be BE!Micaiah or BE!Camilla. The former can debuff units via Sabotage. The latter have map control via Gravity and superior combat sustainability due to Firesweep. I think the pick will be BE!Camilla because she brings map control, since the only free or cheap Gravity unit is Lissa. Yune's Whisper overlaps with Aversa and AOTB!Veronica.

50 minutes ago, kirauza343 said:

The only enemies that should be able to dent her that much are bow units (which she shouldn’t be attacking anyway unless they’re on a horse or are armored) and distant counter users/dragons (which apart from dragons are uncommon outside of Arena/Aether Raids) and the horse and cavalry ones she should be one shotting apart from a few high resistance reds. Personally my priority isn’t Arena/AR, so distant countering is less of an issue in general (and even in AR my speedy blue Micaiah is very useful on defense because no one expects her to be fast enough to double them), but I still think “you can only rely on it once” is a stretch.

You can only rely on it once is not a stretch for Aether Raids. That is where the most difficult content is at and that is generally where a unit's performance will be judged.

For PvE, a lot of more strategies are viable because the difficulty curve is generally much lower. Enemies rarely have obnoxious skill sets, there is little to no penalty to retry, and you can always just copy strategy videos.

Edited by XRay
Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

How so? Maybe she'd technically be more valuable for abyssal maps. But to me, Eliwood looks more useful for just about any other mode/content besides that. And I'd rather have someone who's better in a lot of modes rather than just one mode.

I don't like her either, yeah. But I'm not trying to be biased against her, just saying. I'm not even a huge fan of Eliwood either, I like Alm more than him. But I know Alm stands out the least of these four.

 

The thing about that is Staffbot is generally speaking the strongest unit type in the entire game. Theres a reason why one of the common tips for Arena Assault is "raise a Staffbot" because they really broke Arena format that badly.

 

Camilla is THE premium standard when it comes to Staffbot power level atm and thats what makes her so good. IS really didn't need to do anything outlandish to make a busted Staff, they just have to make one of the better Staff effect and crank up their stats and they'd immediately become OP. For Melee they have to make ridiculous shit before they broke the thereshold to be good

 

Its kinda similar to how in year 1 the game is pretty much ruled by Horse Tome Cavalier. Olwen might be a worse unit relative to her class than say.... Ryoma but Ryoma didnt attack you with 80 Attack

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, XRay said:

Melee infantry units without Distant Counter are kind of crap, and sword infantry in particular are just garbage. They are not garbage because of their performance, they are garbage because we already have so much of them already that do the same stuff. As @kirauza343 mentioned, beast effectiveness does not matter in FTP guides because there are no generic beast enemies yet, so that is why BE!Alm would not be picked for FTP reasons. For similar reasons, BE!Eliwood brings nothing valuable to the table. Strong combat performance is a dime a dozen. Blade mages and Reinhardt got that covered.

Uh... I never said Alm would be the FTP pick. And, uh, he is not effective against beasts. That's Eliwood. And I fully believe generic enemy beasts will be in the game someday. So Eliwood does bring something valuable, or at least will be very valuable.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Micaiah, what a B skill, what art!  Of course Yune will smile, and the people of Daein will be happy, don't you worry!  

I already explained in the other thread why Micaiah is the best and Eliwood is 2nd (Camilla and Alm are good but far below).  The value of a unit isn't just now, but how well it will perform in the future.  This is why the little M is the best choice.  

Who will be most popular?  Well PM had that poll and looking at gamefaqs poll and other places, Micaiah by a landslide.  So why?  Well it also has to do with peoples barracks.  While flying healers are still rare, most people picked Veronica who is a monster of a healer last year on horse.  Infantry sword pool is extremely bloated with many powerful units almost every player likely has one or more excellent ones (Anyone with three houses already has M Byleth).  Lance Cavalry is also a bloated pool, and there are many FTP options that are good.  However Eliwood having dual effectiveness beast/dragon is unique and he has good spread and skills.  Flying mages though, those don't grow on trees.  Sure we've had some seasonal ones, but many people don't have a flying mage in the barracks not even a single one.  Double effectiveness, she will be viable forever.  Like the other Micaiahs. 

2 minutes ago, JSND Alter Dragon Boner said:

 

The thing about that is Staffbot is generally speaking the strongest unit type in the entire game. Theres a reason why one of the common tips for Arena Assault is "raise a Staffbot" because they really broke Arena format that badly.

 

Camilla is THE premium standard when it comes to Staffbot power level atm and thats what makes her so good. IS really didn't need to do anything outlandish to make a busted Staff, they just have to make one of the better Staff effect and crank up their stats and they'd immediately become OP. For Melee they have to make ridiculous shit before they broke the thereshold to be good

 

Its kinda similar to how in year 1 the game is pretty much ruled by Horse Tome Cavalier. Olwen might be a worse unit relative to her class than say.... Ryoma but Ryoma didnt attack you with 80 Attack

Is she the premium standard? Many would argue Veronica is still better cause of that insane staff, and some would argue Fjorm who very valuably makes dancers useless.  If we are not even sure if Camilla is the new standard, and many have Veronica already why is she such a must have?  Besides which it is her stats purely that makes her good, and we all know how IS powercreeps stats like nobodies' business.  Which is why unique great weapons and skills/specials are much more important long term.  

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

Uh... I never said Alm would be the FTP pick. And, uh, he is not effective against beasts. That's Eliwood. And I fully believe generic enemy beasts will be in the game someday. So Eliwood does bring something valuable, or at least will be very valuable.

Sorry, I got BE!Alm and BE!Eliwood a bit confused there, but the rationale is still the same. You were asking why BE!Micaiah might be the FTP pick, and I think that is because she can debuff units. Combat performance honestly is not a huge reason to pick something for FTP guides since we already have lots of cheap heavy hitters. I personally think BE!Camilla to be more useful because she brings map control, which we only have Lissa for so far, and maybe Mercedes if she drops.

Anything that can solved with Effective Weapons can also be solved with Blade tomes and Reinhardt. 1.5 times against specific enemies is nice, but Blade tomes and Dire Thunder is effective against all types of enemies.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

?

Does he and Alm share a VA? Or is Ash voiced by a woman and actually shares one with Micaiah, or waaaaay worse Camilla?

Ash at least used to be voiced by a woman. (I don't remember her name but I remember that her favorite pokemon were Lapras and Pikachu.) Alm's previous renditions are voiced by a man (I'm bad with names, so I don't remember his name) and I don't see why they would change voice actors all of a sudden. The comment confused me, but I didn't even think of voice actors, so you got closer to figuring out what was meant than I did. XD

Link to comment
Share on other sites

21 minutes ago, Lewyn said:

Micaiah, what a B skill, what art!  Of course Yune will smile, and the people of Daein will be happy, don't you worry!  

I already explained in the other thread why Micaiah is the best and Eliwood is 2nd (Camilla and Alm are good but far below).  The value of a unit isn't just now, but how well it will perform in the future.  This is why the little M is the best choice.  

Who will be most popular?  Well PM had that poll and looking at gamefaqs poll and other places, Micaiah by a landslide.  So why?  Well it also has to do with peoples barracks.  While flying healers are still rare, most people picked Veronica who is a monster of a healer last year on horse.  Infantry sword pool is extremely bloated with many powerful units almost every player likely has one or more excellent ones (Anyone with three houses already has M Byleth).  Lance Cavalry is also a bloated pool, and there are many FTP options that are good.  However Eliwood having dual effectiveness beast/dragon is unique and he has good spread and skills.  Flying mages though, those don't grow on trees.  Sure we've had some seasonal ones, but many people don't have a flying mage in the barracks not even a single one.  Double effectiveness, she will be viable forever.  Like the other Micaiahs. 

Is she the premium standard? Many would argue Veronica is still better cause of that insane staff, and some would argue Fjorm who very valuably makes dancers useless.  If we are not even sure if Camilla is the new standard, and many have Veronica already why is she such a must have?  Besides which it is her stats purely that makes her good, and we all know how IS powercreeps stats like nobodies' business.  Which is why unique great weapons and skills/specials are much more important long term.  

 

I was kinda reffering to her offensive specs so my bad. She get +3/3 and +7/7 from base skillset which make her easy access to the current strongest offense on staff. Fwiw i also rate Gravity very highly so >_>

IS "power creep like nobody business", but the thing about power creep is it doesn't actually magically make the stuff you have atm worse than their "current power level". if they released Camilla + a week after Brave Camilla all that happen is Brave Camilla and Cemilla+ break the game because they still shit on everyone else

 

For what it worth i largely considered FEH one of the tamest game when it comes to power creep. FEH never did a power creep on the level of "lets make a unit that makes every unit 60% bulkier, then 2 month after that make said unit unviable to use" and its kinda what stick on my mind for power creep

Edited by JSND Alter Dragon Boner
Link to comment
Share on other sites

IMO the biggest reason Micaiah would be the best for f2p guides isn’t her weapon or her B skill, but her C skill. Whether I’m following a guide or working it out myself, I’ve found flexibility in positioning to be extremely important, and that skill opens up a lot of strategic possibilities.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well great, I'm still undecided on who to pick as the freebie.

They all look equally good (except Alm, I really don't need another Falchion user...), but I also don't wanna just pick Camilla because she's be the easiest pick when I'm not even that big a fan of her, but then do I want PP Beast killer or Micaiah?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Loki Laufeyson said:

Picking Camilla because: 

  • shes finally wearing pants
  •  Flying healer and i dont have one
  • pulling in colorless hell is no

Colorless is the best color to pull for New Hero Foci since they have the least duds. I am defining duds as any unit that has no valuable skills for Skill Inheritance and has no meta defining performance. I am also including units that can be obtained at lower rarities as duds.

Colorless has 13 (not including Brave Echoes) units in their 5* pool and the only dud is Brady, so he is 7.69% of the colorless pool.
Green has 18 in their pool, but they got Ranulf and Reyson as duds, making up 11.11%.
Blue has 19 in their pool, and they have Mordecai, Thea, Shiro, and Selkie as duds, making up 21.50%.
Red has 24 in their pool, and they have FH!Celica, Siegbert, and Zelgius as duds, making up 12.50%.

Edited by XRay
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Humanoid said:

I'm not following where the Atk+10 comes from. It doesn't debuff the enemy's Def/Res so the user should only get a net +5 Atk after everything - less (or nothing) if they're already Honed anyway.

Yeah, I screwed up on that. Not sure why I thought Atk/Spd+5 and Atk/Spd-5 on foe equals Atk+10. It would be Atk/Def/Res+5 and Spd+10. Maybe I was thinking of Matthew's unique refined Spy Dagger since he would get +10 to his attack through the debuffs, but that also wouldn't make sense since his own attack would be buffed by 5, so it should be +15. Saizo would make more sense because of his Penalty Doubler effect. His attack is buffed by 5 and then the -5 attack debuff on his opponent would add 5 to his attack in combat.

Edited by Kaden
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Picking Micaiah.

I am wondering if I should built my Astra Anima Defense Team around Mathew + a panic manor and double shrines for more debuffs. I mean BMicaiaha and Wrys basicly give out -6 Atk / -6 Spd /- 7 Def to any foe that is adjacent, and since Air wont be present on Astra/Anima season the enemys RES will be garbage!

In any case, if anyone thinks that Miciaha should not be the F2P pick, i mean seriously. She synergizes well, slaughters armors and cavs, offers great mobility for the Infantry free to pick units AND provides helpfull debuffs. Punching power like Camilla doesnt mean shit for Abyssal maps with bloated HP stats that usually need a special to kill them or weapon triangle advantage (without a special). And she synergizes well with Veronica.

Lets not talk about Infernal clears, because they are in general piss easy and can be in the most time done without any Skill inheritance from the Askrtrio (or little).

So yeah Camilla is overrated for F2P PVE content and at the moment for Arena because there is no colorless duell flyer A skill.

I can see her work well on Aether Raids, thats the only reason to pick Camilla

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, Etheus said:

I wonder if we're getting "gen 2" cavalry now. Eliwood's BST is a great deal higher than any current cavalry.

give it 6 months - 1 year, then yeah (if there are any new units comeing out by then)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Still haven't decided who out of Alm, Micaiah, or Eliwood's going to be my free pick.  All I know for sure is I'm not picking Camilla; for one, I picked Veronica for my CYL2 pick, and Camilla's skillpool doesn't look to warrant serious merit.

Furthermore, I'm a proud American straight male who takes the game seriously, and at times get ticked off when new updates add disproportionately more females than males without good reason (you'd expect that with bridal banners, but not so much elsewhere--I'd've gladly taken a hot-spring Xander over a hot-spring Camilla, and keep in mind hot-spring Elise has become one of my go-tos with hot-spring Ryoma also seeing frequent use despite the fact that Elise was technically a party crasher in what was looking to be a Hoshidan-themed banner), showing that Heroes caters primarily to the game's majority player base of females (and it clearly shows in Voting Gauntlets), and puts Japan first and foremost when it comes to catering to specific niches (if the developers thought on a more global scope, we wouldn't have nearly as many Camilla alternates, and we'd probably have had at least one all-Hoshidan special banner without a Nohrian crashing the party, which Camilla's been a crasher on at least two occasions).  Camilla is basically the Fire Emblem equivalent of Tingle--massively popular in Japan, massively hated outside Japan, even moreso with a huge glut of Heroes alternates which I'm 100% certain has completely destroyed any fanbase she may have had outside Japan by this point.  The only reason why we're even getting brave Camilla is because of the Japanese fanbase--I'm sure at minimum 95% of Camilla's votes were from the Japan and east Asia region, and the rest of Camilla's votes came from trolls wanting to tick off the international fanbase.  You can count how many non-troll votes Camilla got from outside the Japan and east Asia region on one hand, and you'd still have four fingers and a thumb left over...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

?

Does he and Alm share a VA? Or is Ash voiced by a woman and actually shares one with Micaiah, or waaaaay worse Camilla?

Ash’s original English voice actor was a woman as Mercakete said, Veronica Taylor to be specific. Aside from Micaiah in FEH, Taylor is now also Manuela in Three Houses.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, shiningpikablu252 said:

long story short: "Japanese fans love Camilla"

you know, it's funny that a part of japanese fe fans consider the "camilla pandering" as western pandering

in general, fates was received in japan pretty much the same as in the west: high sales but very controversial and diverse opinions

also, under every japanese feh trailer introducing another camilla alt since the adrift one on twitter, many comments are made by people complaining about camilla

tl;dr the world isn't either completely black or white as you think, so make some research and gather informations before making a statement

 

end of OT

Edited by Yexin
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...