New Heroes Arrive: Brave Echoes (August 16th)

[GrandeRampel]

4 hours ago, shiningpikablu252 said:

Still haven't decided who out of Alm, Micaiah, or Eliwood's going to be my free pick.  All I know for sure is I'm not picking Camilla; for one, I picked Veronica for my CYL2 pick, and Camilla's skillpool doesn't look to warrant serious merit.

Furthermore, I'm a proud American straight male who takes the game seriously, and at times get ticked off when new updates add disproportionately more females than males without good reason (you'd expect that with bridal banners, but not so much elsewhere--I'd've gladly taken a hot-spring Xander over a hot-spring Camilla, and keep in mind hot-spring Elise has become one of my go-tos with hot-spring Ryoma also seeing frequent use despite the fact that Elise was technically a party crasher in what was looking to be a Hoshidan-themed banner), showing that Heroes caters primarily to the game's majority player base of females (and it clearly shows in Voting Gauntlets), and puts Japan first and foremost when it comes to catering to specific niches (if the developers thought on a more global scope, we wouldn't have nearly as many Camilla alternates, and we'd probably have had at least one all-Hoshidan special banner without a Nohrian crashing the party, which Camilla's been a crasher on at least two occasions).  Camilla is basically the Fire Emblem equivalent of Tingle--massively popular in Japan, massively hated outside Japan, even moreso with a huge glut of Heroes alternates which I'm 100% certain has completely destroyed any fanbase she may have had outside Japan by this point.  The only reason why we're even getting brave Camilla is because of the Japanese fanbase--I'm sure at minimum 95% of Camilla's votes were from the Japan and east Asia region, and the rest of Camilla's votes came from trolls wanting to tick off the international fanbase.  You can count how many non-troll votes Camilla got from outside the Japan and east Asia region on one hand, and you'd still have four fingers and a thumb left over...

HahahahahahahahahahaHahahahahahahahahahaHahahahahahahahahahaHahahahahahahahahahaHahahahahahahahahahaHahahahahahahahahaha

Sure, my man. Japan by itself, a small country, managed to pull out 95% of the votes necessary to get Camilla in 1st place during midterms and the entire rest of the world who, as you said, HATES Camilla did not manage to overtrow her even with all the people who switched votes to the girls right below Camilla.

In an internet poll that is translated in every language and isn't any harder to partecipate in other nations outside of Japan. And we are talking about a franchise that sells more outside Japan that it does in Japan (check the sale numbers) which logically means there are more FE fans outside Japan.

Which should be obvious since we are not pitting Japan against another country (let's say Italy, my country) which would be an easy victory for Japan. We are pitting it against every other nations combined. That's a TON more people and gamers than just japan. This is some conspiracy level sh't to think Japan alone holds that much power.

I could talk about the many players in Japan that dislike Camilla and alts but Yexin already explained that part perfectly.

Finally, if you seriously think almost no one likes Camilla outside of Japan you clearly did not pay attention to all the flame wars about her. In order to have a flame WAR there is a need for two opposing sides. And the side of ENGLISH SPEAKING people ready to defend Camilla every time there is an argument is more populated than you think.

 

I would suggest you do a bit of research and check the hard numbers and facts before you make such bold claims again.

Edited August 15, 2019 by GrandeRampel

[Hilda]

4 hours ago, shiningpikablu252 said:

Still haven't decided who out of Alm, Micaiah, or Eliwood's going to be my free pick.  All I know for sure is I'm not picking Camilla; for one, I picked Veronica for my CYL2 pick, and Camilla's skillpool doesn't look to warrant serious merit.

Furthermore, I'm a proud American straight male who takes the game seriously, and at times get ticked off when new updates add disproportionately more females than males without good reason (you'd expect that with bridal banners, but not so much elsewhere--I'd've gladly taken a hot-spring Xander over a hot-spring Camilla, and keep in mind hot-spring Elise has become one of my go-tos with hot-spring Ryoma also seeing frequent use despite the fact that Elise was technically a party crasher in what was looking to be a Hoshidan-themed banner), showing that Heroes caters primarily to the game's majority player base of females (and it clearly shows in Voting Gauntlets), and puts Japan first and foremost when it comes to catering to specific niches (if the developers thought on a more global scope, we wouldn't have nearly as many Camilla alternates, and we'd probably have had at least one all-Hoshidan special banner without a Nohrian crashing the party, which Camilla's been a crasher on at least two occasions).  Camilla is basically the Fire Emblem equivalent of Tingle--massively popular in Japan, massively hated outside Japan, even moreso with a huge glut of Heroes alternates which I'm 100% certain has completely destroyed any fanbase she may have had outside Japan by this point.  The only reason why we're even getting brave Camilla is because of the Japanese fanbase--I'm sure at minimum 95% of Camilla's votes were from the Japan and east Asia region, and the rest of Camilla's votes came from trolls wanting to tick off the international fanbase.  You can count how many non-troll votes Camilla got from outside the Japan and east Asia region on one hand, and you'd still have four fingers and a thumb left over...

you clearly have no clue what happening during the voting for CYL 3 on youtube and why Camilla got so many votes.
Let me fill you in: some Youtube/Reddit/whaever trolls mobilized people to vote for Camilla just to troll the feh/fire emblem community.

[GrandeRampel]

1 minute ago, Hilda said:

you clearly have no clue what happening during the voting for CYL 3 on youtube and why Camilla got so many votes.
Let me fill you in: some Youtube/Reddit/whaever trolls mobilized people to vote for Camilla just to troll the feh/fire emblem community.

Sure that's the reason. Makes sense. How she got to 4th place the first time around is still a mystery tho. Nevermind CYL2 where she got second place during the midterms for some unexplicable miracle, before being knocked out by the new bandwagon Veronica.

 

Or... she is just popular, in the west and in the east. She always was and will always be. Hated by many and loved by many. Except you can't use negative votes in CYL which helps her a lot.

That's another explanation that people often dismiss.

[Hilda]

7 minutes ago, GrandeRampel said:

Sure that's the reason. Makes sense. How she got to 4th place the first time around is still a mystery tho. Nevermind CYL2 where she got second place during the midterms for some unexplicable miracle, before being knocked out by the new bandwagon Veronica.

 

Or... she is just popular, in the west and in the east. She always was and will always be. Hated by many and loved by many. Except you can't use negative votes in CYL which helps her a lot.

That's another explanation that people often dismiss.

did you ignore the impact of the Adrift banner on her popularity during the voting time or did your brain just kinda lock it down somewhere in a corner. Camilla isnt as popular as you believe her to be. At this moment i can only think of 3 persons in this forums that are Camilla fans and are vocal on here, thats not alot.

She was lucky that the Anna votes werent combined are she woulnt have been a CYL unit.

 

Edited August 15, 2019 by Hilda

[Interdimensional Observer]

5 hours ago, Tybrosion said:

Ash’s original English voice actor was a woman as Mercakete said, Veronica Taylor to be specific. Aside from Micaiah in FEH, Taylor is now also Manuela in Three Houses.

Were I a person who liked memes, I would care to see what this has spawn. But I thankfully am not that kind of person. Though the first movie's ending would be less dramatic since Micaiah can't be stoned.

 

 

2 hours ago, Yexin said:

you know, it's funny that a part of japanese fe fans consider the "camilla pandering" as western pandering

in general, fates was received in japan pretty much the same as in the west: high sales but very controversial and diverse opinions

 

So Camilla is like syphilis, countries used to blame other countries for giving them the disease and would nickname after them. Nobody would live up to the truth and admit they're to blame. But on the bright side, Camilla doesn't inflict insanity, or leave scarring which you might want to cover with a pubic wig.

I kid. I've no opinion on Camilla. Just making a slight weird funny, no offense to her.

-But let's not make this thread toxic. Pleeeeeeeaaaaasssssssseeee?🙂

[GrandeRampel]

3 minutes ago, Hilda said:

did you ignore the impact of the Adrift banner on her popularity during the voting time or did your brain just kinda lock it down somewhere in a corner. Camilla isnt as popular as you believe her to be. At this moment i can only think of 3 persons in this forums that are Camilla fans and are vocal on here, thats not alot.

I will admit that had an impact and she probably lost a lot of votes. But probably not as many as you think. She was in FIRST place before we knew the mid results. Numero UNO, higher than numero DOS. That can not be explained with just one country liking her as ShiningPikablu suggested and can not be explained with just some trolls on reddit who wanted to pull a prank on FE for sh'ts and giggles.

The most plausible explanation is that it was a combination of things, with no single element being the most prevalent to the point of saying "it was because of THAT ONE reason".

I honestly think the Camilla hate is overestimated. If the entire community really came together as one to vote Micaiah, Anna and F!Robin like people think it did then Camilla would have been kicked out of the top 2, of the top 5 even. A community coming together for one goal is something extremely powerful and no amount of external influence can defeat it.

But it didn't come together. The community was split on the matter. There were even people like me who didn't vote Camilla the other times but did now because the witch hunt against Camilla fans was getting cancerous.

There were people resigned that simply decided to get Brave Camilla out of the way this year instead of the next one.

There were peole that simply did not join the argument, and they maybe did not even check the midterms. They just checked the site once a day to vote their fave which could have been Camilla. The ever infamous "silent majority" or "silent plurality" that gets trown around often.

And as much as it pains me to agree with the people that say: "Camilla fans are just selfish, they want new alts for her and don't care for who gets shafted" it is true that there are also people like that who would genuinely vote for Camilla again next year if it was permitted by the rules. Who knows how many selfish fans there are out there. It's not like they want to be recognized.

The point is that this isn't a question with a clear-cut answer.

It's more like a huge confusing mess, and nobody can claim to know the whole truth.

 

To quote JoJo's Bizarre Adventures:

"The only thing that remains is the result, that Camilla won"

[Ottservia]

Can we all just stop arguing about Camilla it’s getting very tiresome. Some people like her some people don’t let’s just leave it at that. The devs clearly have a hard on for her(both literally and figuratively) which is probably why she has so many alts. Geez why can’t we all just let people enjoy and vote for the characters they love? Why must people be shamed for liking a popular yet divisive character? Like what you like and no one should be able to tell you otherwise.

[Midnox]

5 hours ago, Tybrosion said:

Ash’s original English voice actor was a woman as Mercakete said, Veronica Taylor to be specific. Aside from Micaiah in FEH, Taylor is now also Manuela in Three Houses.

 

9 hours ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

?

Does he and Alm share a VA? Or is Ash voiced by a woman and actually shares one with Micaiah, or waaaaay worse Camilla?

Yep, Micaiah, voiced by Veronica Tailor, Ash’s original VA. Yep, I’m picking her

[Yexin]

back on topic

every artwork is absolutely amazing this time, but yeah kita remains my favorite fe artist (damn you old lady)

and yeah eliwood's lance is good, but not amazing: legendary marth's been around since like a year, and beast units are not that common in competitive modes, and IntSys hasn't created generic beast enemies so eliwood's not that useful in pve either, but being a dragon/beast killer on a horse is a nice nieche nevertheless

Edited August 15, 2019 by Yexin

[Midnox]

1 minute ago, Yexin said:

back on topic

every artwork is absolutely amazing this time, but yeah kita remains my favorite fe artist (damn you old lady)

and yeah eliwood's lance is good, but not amazing: legendary marth's been around since like a year, and beast unit are not that common in competitive modes, and yeah they haven't created beast generic enemies so eliwood's not that useful in pve either, but being a dragon/beast killer on a horse is a nice nieche nevertheless

Indeed, pretty nice, and the look of both Eliwood and the lance are easy on the eyes, but I think, for now, it’s not as versatile as Brace Micaiah. She can rip apart two common and oftentimes bothersome units, she can tank magic, has absurd might, and can tank magic, pretty deadly weapons quite often

[MisterIceTeaPeach]

I take my Micky and will go on a Veronica hunt after that. 

I still need a +Atk or +spd version of her. 

[Ice Dragon]

7 hours ago, Etheus said:

I wonder if we're getting "gen 2" cavalry now. Eliwood's BST is a great deal higher than any current cavalry.

It looks like trainee status to me. His stat total sits 4-6 points higher than existing Gen 2-3 melee cavalry, which coincidentally matches the effect of the trainee status.

 

And I assume you meant "Gen 3" instead of "Gen 2" because Gen 2 cavalry already exist. And technically so do Gen 3 cavalry. Gen 3 melee cavalry simply didn't get any changes compared to Gen 2 melee cavalry.

[Azuni]

Free picking Micaiah probably, most useful unit and interesting fodder to me (Ground Orders, but only if I got a spare).
Eliwood is a close second, the other two don't contribute anything relevant to my barracks.

[Punished Dayni]

The banner's here! I'll just mention the stuff not on the Feh Channel.

Camilla has me afraid she'll go all Caligula on Nohr and has Restore, Wrathful Staff and Atk Tactic on her skills. Frankly she could be a beast thanks to her other skills if her stats add up. Eliwood is the Marquess now and has Rally Atk/Def+, Atk/Spd Ruse (Oh my) and Spd Opening. Michiah comes with a stand and Sacrifice, Yune's Whispers (It's Sabotage Atk/Spd. Okay, that's terrifying with her 40 RES.) and Ground Orders. Alm comes with Draconic Aura, Chill Def and Threaten Atk/Spd 3 (if foes are in range gives him +5 to Atk/Spd and gives -5 to foe's Atk/Spd.) (THE POWERCREEP). I have no idea who to pick, SEND HELP

Also, Sigrun gets in as a regular unit. Surprise. Now when Tanith you cowards?

[Thinks Their Own Way]

CYL 1: I picked Lyn

CYL 2: I picked Hector

CYL 3: I'm picking... Camilla

I voted her into existence and I will reap the rewards of actually remembering the vote was happening. I also really love the wrathful/dazzle combo.

[Fire Emblem Fan]

I'm definitely leaning towards Eliwood for my free pull. I used my free pull for Lyn in CYL 1 and Hector in CYL 2, so it seems only fitting to use it for Eliwood in CYL 3. Micaiah is super tempting, though. She seems like she'd be an incredibly handy unit to have around.

[Roflolxp54]

Yes! Yes! Got CYL Micaiah on my free pull on the regular banner! Her stats are meh (+Spd/-Res) but hey, Summer Lyn's getting Ground Orders!

Also got Micaiah as my CYL gift (I did vote her in and I see her as the most useful of the 4 IMO).

 

[Mercakete]

Hm. That first part of the Y3 Brave Heroes makesme want to challenge these maps with brave heroes from the past. I guess I kind of am since I'm using Brave Ike, but I want to use a full team!

[BoaFerox]

1 hour ago, Mercakete said:

Hm. That first part of the Y3 Brave Heroes makesme want to challenge these maps with brave heroes from the past. I guess I kind of am since I'm using Brave Ike, but I want to use a full team!

I tried doing this, ever since last year when I got all the CYL2 units I have had one team slot dedicated to them. They include sword, axe and lance units so I tend to use them to clear the paralogue and story quests. They couldn't do it without a little help from Light's Blessing this time though, Brave Hector and Brave Ephraim being armor units means Micaiah can do whatever she wants, and my +Def Hector actually died in one round to Alm. 

[Rinco]

Spent 180 orbs and got Micaiah almost at the end of the stash. She's -Atk but +Res, so that works out.
Used free summon on Camilla then, and I'll try a little bit with the orbs I can get for Eliwood. Don't care about Alm.

[Fabulously Olivier]

I chose Eliwood. While Camilla will likely be meta defining for the next year, I'd much rather have a great alt for a character I actually care about.

 

Little luck with the regular banner. Pulled a 5 star Reyson, which saves me some feathers, I guess.

[Stroud]

I know that Micaiah might have been better. Still Camilla was worth it. Now its up to make a perfect team with her and the Retainers. I feel like this Camilla can actually be very helpful for Selena and Beruka. Also its finally an Camilla alt which has some style and is not Seasonal. Adrift Camilla would not be such a nice fit with Selena.

I really hope that they will add new Push 4 Skills later. I could imagine working them on Selena. But Fury 4 might be a viable choice thanks to healer Camilla for me. Also intend to add Azura as a back up Dancer for the Team, but only the normal one to not cheese with L!Azura on this team. And lastly Azura can help out with Tactics skills here. Which would be more difficult with 3 fliers. So far my long term project with her retainers finally hits a fine milestone here.

[Zelgius]

I'm not too sure who to pick, I was thinking Micaiah or Camilla. I have a Yune so I don't think green Micaiah would see much use, but I feel I don't really need another healer. I think I'll hold off for now and watch how the units work.

[Lewyn]

On 8/15/2019 at 12:37 AM, JSND Alter Dragon Boner said:

I was kinda reffering to her offensive specs so my bad. She get +3/3 and +7/7 from base skillset which make her easy access to the current strongest offense on staff. Fwiw i also rate Gravity very highly so >_>

IS "power creep like nobody business", but the thing about power creep is it doesn't actually magically make the stuff you have atm worse than their "current power level". if they released Camilla + a week after Brave Camilla all that happen is Brave Camilla and Cemilla+ break the game because they still shit on everyone else

 

For what it worth i largely considered FEH one of the tamest game when it comes to power creep. FEH never did a power creep on the level of "lets make a unit that makes every unit 60% bulkier, then 2 month after that make said unit unviable to use" and its kinda what stick on my mind for power creep

It does make units relatively worse.  Units that were great at launch, well some of them are no longer great.  Units considered top of the heap end of year one, some are no longer there.  I'm not familiar with gacha but considering it is the greediest most profitable model it is loathsome that it is also the model that has the most power creep.  So even if Heroes is tame compared to others I still think it isn't a good thing. 

On Camilla I don't think it is a Japanese fetish thing or whatever.  Camilla is a just a super stacked hot girl with very pandering outfits and actions.  That is popular....well everywhere.  The whole sister fetish thing might be more Japanese (wow wouldn't it be cool if you had this super hot sister who wanted to sleep with you!?  No in actuality it would be super disgusting and probably mess you up for life).  

I had like no orbs so this was going to be a free summon, finish circle and then choose my CYL3 hero.  Free summon got me +spd Brave Micaiah, finished the circle which got me another Brave Micaiah.  So I merged fixing the bane and have just a +Spd.  Allowed me to pick Eliwood which was my 2nd favorite and the only other hero I really wanted.  Really thrilled!  Now just save for Julia.

[Ice Dragon]

So it looks like Eliwood, Micaiah, and Camilla got +1 base and +10% growths compared to Gen 3 units and Alm got +2 base and +5% growths compared to Gen 3 melee infantry.

Sigrun

Spoiler

got +3 base and +5% growths compared to Gen 3 melee fliers.

Not sure what's up with the inconsistent numbers, though. Also not sure if these are CYL-specific bonuses or if they're here to stay (would be strange if the full difference is here to stay since infantry just got a buff).

 

30 minutes ago, Lewyn said:

Units considered top of the heap end of year one, some are no longer there.

That's perfectly normal and nowhere near definitive evidence for power creep.