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Gwyn

What classes does the game need the most right now?

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I think a common consensus currently is that the class progression is very unsmooth for a lot of characters and while that could also be solved just by patching the requirements I think most people are looking forward to having more master class options in general.

So I'm curious what class niches does everyone feel we're lacking? What classes would fill those niches? Or do you think everything is fine and people just need to disregard the tiering system for final classes. 😉

Personally the two things that hurt me the most are just gendered classing and the odd class requirements otherwise I'm coming around to feeling the classes we have are fine even if it doesn't feel as awesome to stay as a warlock and not have that master tier prestige feeling.

Other than that if there is a niche I would like to be filled is an archer class that can also cast a limited amount of spells. If you unlock stuff through ng+ and such you can get that by giving a dark knight a bow but it just doesn't feel quite right. Also in general I really don't like how low the penalties for dismounting seems to be.

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The Dark Mage/Bishop class needs to not be gender-locked; I really don't see the point of that. Either make a Dark Mage version for females as well or get rid of the genderlock. 

There also needs to be an additional Master Class for Sword users because there was no way for me to easily swap to a different sword-based class after Assassin unless I built up my reason for Mortal Savant. 

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1. Flying mages, altought they would be OP, so maybe give them spell access but not great Mag stat

2. Something after Pegasus and before Falcon, I know Peg has the stats of an advanced class, but it's just not fun to stay in the same class for 20 levels. I'd make Falcon advanced and then make Dark Flyer a Master class (with magic access)

3. Most importantly, and biggest hole in the classes: Halberdier/Sentinel, I use a Lance, doesn't mean I want a (flying) horse. We need dedicated Lance infantry, I mean it's like the most common warrior archetype in history.

That said I do like the way the system work, with Master Classes being optional, but the game should make it more clear, if a new person comes into the game they'll expect to have to have everyone in a Master tier at some point, and it can screw your units over, especially if you're going with swords and feel like you have no way of progressing (when in fact Assassin/Swordmaster is already progressed to the max).

Wyvern Lord could use a nerf, they're stupidly good. I'm also of the opinion that Sniper should have longer range than Bow Knight, doesn't make sense that a dedicated archer shoots worse than a horseman, and it just makes Sniper outclassed and BK too good.

Gender locks are fine by me, the Pegasus and Brawler lines that is, female should be able to get into Dark Mage and male should have a dedicated mage class (yes, you can stay as Warlock, but it's just crippling in Mov).

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To be honest all the Master classes are a bit weird. Mage classes on advanced classes are a bit demanding, you probably only reach A level on time when you set your goals to one magic and one magic only. 

Master classes most of the time demand 2 type of weapons - like most of the horses ask for lances, a pretty weird choice of weapon for bow knights. Even Nomads used swords instead of lances in older titles. For example while I think Ignatz could be a great bow knight, I don't think he'll ever use the lances, so it kinda moves him out of his usual direction. Great Knights are even higher in cost, you need to train 2 movement type and axes - a high demand for such a small reward in my opinion.

Also, I think Dark Seals should be more useful. Dark Mage and Dark Bishop has little difference, and the only dark magic most unit could ever use is Miasma - clearly the least useful Dark spell. Mages can also learn Fiendish Blow, so I'd rather hunt the Dark Knights for the challenge rather than the reward.

@timon I just want a flying healer if possible.

Edited by Garlyle

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Gendered classes are one of the few sanity checks in the game. I don't want to make it more broken than it is.

Gauntlets could use more classes(and a relic or two). An obvoius one would be a faith gauntlet "monk". 

Armors need something better than fortress knight because that thing is really terrible. Just give them a master class with bold or vengenful dighter if you want to keep their LOL speed. Also, mounted classes feel really limited to lance and could use some alternative intermediate or advanced classes. Think genealogy "weapon" knights.

I get why people want a lance infranty class but i feel it does not have really a niche in a game were every class can use every weapon. What would be their class skills?

Also, there are 2 things that imo should never exist even if many people want them. Flying mage and armored mage.

The former would be the best class in the game even whit a -10 mag and the latter would remove the main weakness of certain characters, making them gods in less efficient playtroughs

 

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Halberdier

Advanced

A rank lance

 

Sentinel

Master

A rank lance and A rank gauntlet

 

Trueblade

Master

A rank swords and A rank gauntlets

 

Inquisitor

Master

Alternative canon class for Byleth that uses his Commoner outfit. But can be used by any character.

A rank swords and B rank Faith magic

Steal

Locktouch

Can use magic

 

Fell Star

Byleth only.

Requires Black Eagles empire route, but freely unlocked for subsequent New Game + playthroughs.

Alternative canon class for Byleth with a new outfit.

Strengths in Sword, Reason Magic, and Brawling

Can use dark magic. Comes with Miasma and Black/Dark Magic Avo when equipped and grants Mire and Hades when mastered.

Edited by Etheus

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I personally think spells shouldn't be limited to being added as a class skill but rather each character and class having a set list if spells per skill rank. That way all dark bishops would have say Luna or death rather than the freeby fiendish blow that most mages would have already.

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The mentions of swords and gauntlets kind of resonate. When I think about it master classes push the concept of hybridization as it's key characteristic. But hybridization in FE3h feels really odd anyway with your given set off characters often not being able to make great use out of the hybridization and sometimes actually just trading away their specialized strength for it.

I don't think that on a core design level this has worked out great for the fantasy of progressing through the class system but also for the flexibility in class progression. Ideally you want all the pre master classes to open up after the philosophy of pick any two skills to focus on and at the end we ask you to specialize in 1 and that will open the master class instead of pick any 2 skills and at the end we ask you to have A proficiency in this totally unrelated skill you never touched.

In short I think the key concept behind master classes should have been specialization instead of hybridization. So as mentioned before really any class that pushes a specialization angle of any single weapon with gauntlets and swords being the most limited right now would be nice.

Edited by Gwyn

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1 hour ago, Flere210 said:

I get why people want a lance infranty class but i feel it does not have really a niche in a game were every class can use every weapon. What would be their class skills?

I get your point, in theory you can just give a Lance to a Hero, but in the practical sense you can't actually focus someone on Lance, you have to get Sword/Axe up and then you're stuck with Swordfaire. Meanwhile, every single other skill level has a class going for it, Swordmaster, Warrior, Sniper, Grappler, Warlock, Bishop. There's a specialized way for everyone except for Lances. Yes, every single cavalry class needs Lance and there's a lot of them, and yes Paladin is a very good class, but that still doesn't fill the niche of someone who focuses down exclusively on Lance.

As for skills, tbh whatever, just give them Lancefaire and Lance crit like with Swordmaster.

btw in my post I forgot something, we need General, Fortress is the worst class in the game by a long shot (I'm pretty sure you're better of staying Knight if you're armored), and Great Knight is a pain with those requirements.

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This game need lunatic mode the most right now. I want to NG+, I want to take part in the numerous different activities made available to me by the game and I want to not trivialize the difficulty of this game at the same time. Give me an option to play your game IS.

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Moreso than any other FE game before it (at least those I've played), 3H could have done away with the concept of classes altogether. Mounts and Heavy Armour could simply be equipment that reduces your stats/skills on a sliding scale depending on your corresponding skill.

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13 minutes ago, Humanoid said:

Moreso than any other FE game before it (at least those I've played), 3H could have done away with the concept of classes altogether. Mounts and Heavy Armour could simply be equipment that reduces your stats/skills on a sliding scale depending on your corresponding skill.

I could see that going either way. 

 

I understand why the kept classes. They provide a sense of achievement or culmination. Unlocking that advanced or master class on a character feels like a genuine milestone in your playthrough (perhaps even moreso than promoting in previous games). 

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Just now, Etheus said:

I could see that going either way. 

 

I understand why the kept classes. They provide a sense of achievement or culmination. Unlocking that advanced or master class on a character feels like a genuine milestone in your playthrough (perhaps even moreso than promoting in previous games). 

You could still have some sort of promotion system I guess, but instead of revolving around specific roles, they'd be more of a measure of aptitude level, say the final promotion would be a Ph.D. 😛

Note that I don't have the slightest expectation of any of this ever being realistically considered, it's just a reflection of my own preferences in CRPGs.

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Here's my list, let me know what you guys think:

Beginner:

Trainee Flier - Lance, Flying

Trainee Rider - Sword, Lance, Riding

Trainee Armor - Axe, armor

Advanced Classes:

Falcon Knight - move from Master to Advanced

Sentinel

Berseker - Replace warrior for Axes

Master Classes:

Warrior - Move up from Advanced

Kinshi (or Gryphon) Knight - Replace Falcon Knight

Gold Knight - Give paladins something to move to

Dread Fighter - I don't feel like trueblade adds anything, so let's use this instead.

Baron - Final promote for armors. Can use brawling.

Druid - Male alternative to Gremory

 

DLC wishes:

Witch - Classic. Bring it back.

OG Emperor - Give Edel her magic back.

Summoner - Completely broken, tons of fun. I know it ruins the balance, but I freaking loved this class in Sacred Stones.

Pirate - Now that everything can move on water, this isn't as unique, but I still loved these guys.

 

Edited by dragonlordsd

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the game needs at least one class of every tier for every branch

for example:

thief -> assassin -> evolution of assassin

myrmidon -> mercenary -> hero -> dread fighter

and NO, great knight is NOT an evolution for the paladin class: golden knight would be

great knight should be AN ALTERNATIVE to either gold knight and marshall (possible master version of the fortress knight line)

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1 minute ago, Yexin said:

the game needs at least one class of every tier for every branch

for example:

thief -> assassin -> evolution of assassin

myrmidon -> mercenary -> hero -> dread fighter

and NO, great knight is NOT an evolution for the paladin class: golden knight would be

great knight should be AN ALTERNATIVE to either gold knight and marshall (possible master version of the fortress knight line)

Agreed. Several lines just have no end.

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Hoping for each class path to get a masterclass is probably unrealistic. Feels like that ship has sailed which is why I'm settling for classes that patch up the worst gameplay gaps. Many a times have I lamented the fact that sniper class lines don't have a class to turn into that can cast. It's even more strange given that Mercedes, Felix and even Hanneman to an extent like to use bows.

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Drop the master class title and add them to the advanced list and drop the requirements on them to match advanced.  This way you can say that oh great knight isn't a supped up paladin it's an alternative, cause the term master class makes me think it's an upgrade when in fact it's an alternative.

Also wouldn't mind falco knights getting healing magic

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22 minutes ago, Wolfen09 said:

Drop the master class title and add them to the advanced list and drop the requirements on them to match advanced.  This way you can say that oh great knight isn't a supped up paladin it's an alternative, cause the term master class makes me think it's an upgrade when in fact it's an alternative.

Also wouldn't mind falco knights getting healing magic

Depends on the Class.

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2 hours ago, Loki Laufeyson said:

Flying tome users pls

I would like if Falcon Knight were dropped to Advanced, and we got two new Master Classes. Malig Knights (flying, reason, axes, rides wyvern) and Sky Knights (flying, faith, lances, rides pegasus).

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20 minutes ago, Gwyn said:

Hoping for each class path to get a masterclass is probably unrealistic. Feels like that ship has sailed which is why I'm settling for classes that patch up the worst gameplay gaps. Many a times have I lamented the fact that sniper class lines don't have a class to turn into that can cast. It's even more strange given that Mercedes, Felix and even Hanneman to an extent like to use bows.

What would a class like that add considering  magic bows are a thing? To give mages a long ranged option to hit def? To get an attack option to physics users? 

Imo we don't need a combination of every weapon with every other weapon and every movement type. Every class should have a clear role and purpose. Otherwise is just bloating.

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