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Gwyn

What classes does the game need the most right now?

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I just want a specialized magical class for the guys and a good physical infantry for gals that isn't mortal savant. A flying mage would be neat too. Oh and a master class that has locktouch utility. Master classes are just severely lacking in variety.

Edit: a good end goal for armors that isn't great knight would be good too. They really got the shaft with having to train up in both armor and cavalry to reach the mediocre outcome that is great knight

Edited by NegativeExponents-

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12 minutes ago, Flere210 said:

What would a class like that add considering  magic bows are a thing? To give mages a long ranged option to hit def? To get an attack option to physics users? 

Imo we don't need a combination of every weapon with every other weapon and every movement type. Every class should have a clear role and purpose. Otherwise is just bloating.

It's filling a more evasive mage niche basically what I have in mind is probably similar to people asking for flyers that can cast. Just not quite as op since you don't fly over obstacles and won't have access to canto. It also fills the niche that some characters seem to be set up for but currently won't really make use off. I haven't really seen people work  out utilizing the bow talents of someone like Mercedes since it's just straight up better to stick to the faith class progression with her.

If I can get fancy the gimmick of magic archers would be shooting magic arrows at a tile and transforming it's property. Like the tile is burning for 2 phases etc.

Also I don't think this design paradigm of every class should have a clear role applies or works in fire emblem. The current class list is already really noisy while also feeling lacking. Fire emblem should be more concerned about giving classes that enable new playstyles in my opinion.

I already said if you work towards the skills and gather them together on ng+ through renown buying you can probably build what I have in mind already but that's just awkward vs having a clear class path to progress on.

 

Edited by Gwyn

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I'm going to second a class that combines magic and bows. It would be an Alchemist and require Bow level B in addition to either Reason Level A or Faith Level A.

 

It would come with the talents Bow Range +1, Reinvigorate (Consumable items buff unit's stats for 2 turns and restore 1 use to each spell), and Alchemy (Chance to not consume a use a consumable on use, based on luck). 

 

Mastering the class gives you the combat arts Elixir Arrow, heals allies around the target foe, and Arcane Arrow, which deals magical damage based on your Resistance.

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It's extremely jarring that there is only one advanced class with a lance requirement (paladin)  while half the master classes require a high lance rank, there should be a halbadier class or something in advanced so your Pegasus knights aren't forced to sit in Pegasus knight for 25 levels and Atleast have a switch out option 

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9 hours ago, Garlyle said:

To be honest all the Master classes are a bit weird. Mage classes on advanced classes are a bit demanding, you probably only reach A level on time when you set your goals to one magic and one magic only. 

Master classes most of the time demand 2 type of weapons - like most of the horses ask for lances, a pretty weird choice of weapon for bow knights. Even Nomads used swords instead of lances in older titles. For example while I think Ignatz could be a great bow knight, I don't think he'll ever use the lances, so it kinda moves him out of his usual direction. Great Knights are even higher in cost, you need to train 2 movement type and axes - a high demand for such a small reward in my opinion.

Also, I think Dark Seals should be more useful. Dark Mage and Dark Bishop has little difference, and the only dark magic most unit could ever use is Miasma - clearly the least useful Dark spell. Mages can also learn Fiendish Blow, so I'd rather hunt the Dark Knights for the challenge rather than the reward.

@timon I just want a flying healer if possible.

Dark seals are just free gold lol

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For one thing, Falcon Knight has no business being master class. That should have been advanced with some new flyer class in master.

Also, more hybrid options. Characters with mixed skillsets are screwed the most here. For example, let's take Lorenz. He's good in riding classes like Cavalier and Paladin, but you have to wait all the way to Dark Knight to take advantage of both it and his magic talent.

So, perhaps something like Mage Knight to add as an Intermediate or Advanced class to serve as a precursor of sorts.

Annette is another example of where her axe and magic talents don't really work in tandem.

Edited by Sentinel07

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  • An Authority-focused class that isn't limited to Lords. Give them more Gambit uses per battle or the ability to switch battalions mid-battle.
  • A better melee/magic infantry hybrid than Mortal Savant. Give them something that makes mixed physical + magical stats worth having.
  • A jack-of-all-trades class that requires something like C Rank in a bunch of different skills. Give them stronger weapon-triangle effects or something like that to encourage switching between different weapons or between weapons and spells frequently.

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I had 0 problems getting literally everyone into their Master Class by Lv. 34 (damn you Ashe with your 80% pass rate and failing for 3 weeks in a row), plus mastering like 2-3 Intermediate tier classes in the wait time (Death Blow/Fiendish Blow/Darting Blow combo). That's why I don't get the complaint of having Pegasus knights sit. There's plenty of class mastery skills worth getting, to switch it up. In fact, I completely skipped out on Advanced Classes on most characters in favor of getting some mastery skills out of the Intermediate classes.

And because you can wield almost any weapon in any class, so I don't see the point of a specific Lance class or other specific classes when people can wield anything. Mercedes is a Holy Knight, but she only wields Magic Bows/Magic, and she's never even touched a lance. Cyril is a Wyvern Lord who wields swords and bows.I can dismount Sylvain (if I wanted) to make him a lance wielding, infantry Dark Knight with magic.

So really the only thing missing is a flying/magic user. I honestly just don't understand why they restricted magic to only *some* classes when they could have just played with the growth rates instead to make different focuses. It's the most glaring omission I think, so I hope they add that in. 

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11 minutes ago, EdgeOfDreams said:
  • An Authority-focused class that isn't limited to Lords. Give them more Gambit uses per battle or the ability to switch battalions mid-battle.
  • A better melee/magic infantry hybrid than Mortal Savant. Give them something that makes mixed physical + magical stats worth having.
  • A jack-of-all-trades class that requires something like C Rank in a bunch of different skills. Give them stronger weapon-triangle effects or something like that to encourage switching between different weapons or between weapons and spells frequently.

Those are pretty good suggestions, but the battalion switch can be pretty busted so i'd just give them something else.

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After playing through the game twice thus far and starting a third playthrough, I've found a few missing/imbalanced things, mostly at Master rank:

 

1.) Wyvern Lord and Bow Knight are just way too good.  There's little point in going for any other physical mastery when these two are so strong.

2.) There are no hybrid physical/magical classes until Master rank; as Sentinel07 said, there should be a mage knight or spellblade or SOMETHING at the intermediate/advanced stage.

3.) Mounted/flying units having high movement, Canto and free dismounting makes them better than most other classes.

4.) War Master is the only gauntlet-specific Master class and it's exclusive to males, so female gauntlet users have no real progression path.  A Master rank class available to both sexes that uses gauntlets would be a nice addition.

5.) Far too many Master rank classes require the same 2 skills (Lance and Riding).  This really stifles creativity in building your units.

6.) Heavy Armor is basically useless outside of the C rank skill; Fortress Knight is a terrible class and Great Knight is almost never worth going for.  Adding a Master rank class (and possibly another Advanced rank class) that utilizes Heavy Armor and is actually worth a damn would be appreciated.

 

That's all that's coming to me right now, but I'm sure there's other things.

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One of my biggest qualms was that there was no flying intermediate class for Males. This makes it difficult for Male Units to gain flying experience for Wyvern Rider since Pegasus Knight is female-only. Wyvern Rider should have been intermediate.

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Any class that requires a specific melee weapon proficiency should just accept any melee weapon. You can go into fighter with any of the listed weapons, why not apply the same logic to other classes?

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1. Lance Infantry (Halberdier, Sentinel)
- I love using Lance Infantry in FE games, probably because it is somewhat rare to play as them. I also loved how the Tellius games (Path of Radiance, Radiant Dawn) incorporated Lance Infantry into their class system. In Three Houses, it's basically regulated to a flying or mounted class (or Dimitri).

2. Dark Flier (Magic Pegasus Knight)
- I loved the Dark Flier in Awakening. We already have mounted casters in the form of Holy Knights and Dark Knights, so why not have a flying variant as well?

3. Remove Gender Locks
- While a part of me doesn't mind the Pegasus Knight lock because "tradition," Three Houses really tries to open up new options with its new class system. Having gender-locked classes ruins this "sandbox" aspect of making fun builds for characters.
- So, remove the gender restrictions. Let there be female Dark Mages and Grapplers. Let there be male Pegasus Knights and a male Gremory. I want my build-enabling options!

4. Magic Armor Class
- Honestly, this is just for Edelgard because I honestly thought with her affinity for magic she would be able to use some in her unique classes. She doesn't. Pls fix.

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I would like Gold Knight, Trueblade, and Vanguard to be added in. An armor mage class is something I've always wanted too. Some Master Tier assassin class like Dread Fighter or Whisper would be cool as well. I'll also throw my vote it for a flying caster and/or flying bow class. Lastly, I think a War Monk class that uses Faith with Gauntlets (maybe axes) would be nice.

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15 hours ago, timon said:

1. Flying mages, altought they would be OP, so maybe give them spell access but not great Mag stat

2. Something after Pegasus and before Falcon, I know Peg has the stats of an advanced class, but it's just not fun to stay in the same class for 20 levels. I'd make Falcon advanced and then make Dark Flyer a Master class (with magic access)

3. Most importantly, and biggest hole in the classes: Halberdier/Sentinel, I use a Lance, doesn't mean I want a (flying) horse. We need dedicated Lance infantry, I mean it's like the most common warrior archetype in history.

That said I do like the way the system work, with Master Classes being optional, but the game should make it more clear, if a new person comes into the game they'll expect to have to have everyone in a Master tier at some point, and it can screw your units over, especially if you're going with swords and feel like you have no way of progressing (when in fact Assassin/Swordmaster is already progressed to the max).

Wyvern Lord could use a nerf, they're stupidly good. I'm also of the opinion that Sniper should have longer range than Bow Knight, doesn't make sense that a dedicated archer shoots worse than a horseman, and it just makes Sniper outclassed and BK too good.

Gender locks are fine by me, the Pegasus and Brawler lines that is, female should be able to get into Dark Mage and male should have a dedicated mage class (yes, you can stay as Warlock, but it's just crippling in Mov).

Honestly I agree about the Pegasus Knight thing... since Wyvern Lord is a really really good class... what’s the point of Falcoknight? (More res and sword proficiency versus axe proficiency?) I found it more useful to make my units Wyvern Lords because I like the stat line more... Also it kind of sucks that magic classes are locked on foot until master class...  Another thing is that once you max out Peg Knight you are about ready to promote to Advanced Tier... so why not change over to Wyvern Rider?  I think there should be some advantage for sticking with Peg Knight... It also never made sense to me that both Flayn and Manuela could promote easily to Pegasus Knight even though they are primarily Faith users?  Furthermore, Marianne has a proficiency for flying (it is in line with her character) even though she is primarily a healer?  Her str was never good for me, so why put her in a physical class?  Flying mages and healers would be really op lol

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They should have used the same system that they used for the Fighter class in Beginner (/ = or) :

Intermediate Cavalier = Riding C + Sword/Lance/Bow C 
Advanced : Paladin = Riding B + Sword/Lance/Bow B 
Master : Gold Knight = Riding A + Sword/Lance A  and Bow Knight = Riding A + Bow A (with Bow Range +1)

Can use the same thing for Reason/Faith and Riding.

Then give the Infantry specialists (A in Advanced) a Master Class requiring S rank (and give the Bow Range +2 to the Master Archer)

For the mixed unit you use the same principle with a differentiation at Master Class based on weapons.

Balance the fucking Growths.

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One thing that bothers me about the class certifications is why would you ever use more than 1 weapon type on a character especially once you get to the master classes.

Why would you ever use a lance on a wyvern lord which has axefaire?

I can understand something like having someone like Leonie using bows as a cavalier/paladin to train up to bow knight. Granted you lose the lancefaire bonus. But once she's a bow knight there's no reason to ever use a lance ever again. Since there's no weapon triangle you don't really equip your character to have more than one weapon type. I know some people like giving their units bows but a short axe/short spear does the same thing and probably does more damage with the faire skills. Granted bows are overpowered weapon type as their classes don't really have the downside of not being able to counterattack at melee range since they get close counter at C rank and have the best range. 

 

 

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26 minutes ago, PPPPPPP270 said:

One thing that bothers me about the class certifications is why would you ever use more than 1 weapon type on a character especially once you get to the master classes.

Why would you ever use a lance on a wyvern lord which has axefaire?

I can understand something like having someone like Leonie using bows as a cavalier/paladin to train up to bow knight. Granted you lose the lancefaire bonus. But once she's a bow knight there's no reason to ever use a lance ever again. Since there's no weapon triangle you don't really equip your character to have more than one weapon type. I know some people like giving their units bows but a short axe/short spear does the same thing and probably does more damage with the faire skills. Granted bows are overpowered weapon type as their classes don't really have the downside of not being able to counterattack at melee range since they get close counter at C rank and have the best range. 

 

The abilities you get for levelling up the various weapons don't increase speed so you might need to change to a lighter weapon type to get a crucial double, or do the opposite and switch to a heavier type to one-hit an enemy that you can't double either way, though the Faire skills make this less likely. The Prowess skills increase hit, the Faire skills increase attack, and the Crit skills increase, well, crit.

You might want access to a particular Combat Art too I suppose. Additionally, having multiple Breaker skills could be viable and that effectively would return the weapon triangle.

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Few of small changes I'd make:

1) Make mages able to pass any terrain like assassins. I found Felix as an Assassin super useful for his ability to move quickly through terrain like a flyer (super useful in BE final chapter). Adding this to mages while keeping the slow movement would balance them without breaking them. There's also historical precedence with mages and sand.

2) Remove the -MAG growths for physical classes. Makes it more viable to switch in between as needed.

4) Scrap lances from knight classes. Balance mage knights by reducing the overall no of spell uses. Then the lack of x2 uses hurts way more.

5) On a similar note allow physical units to use some magic. Perhaps it takes two usages to use magic as a physical unit. So you'd have a hierarchy where advanced mage only get x2 uses, mage knights get normal uses and non mages get half uses. Combine with less overall magic usages and then every unit could heal or use fire 2/3 times a map but no more. That might get unbalanced but I think it's an idea worth exploring vs more magic/physical combo units.

3) Scrap lance requirements from cavalier/paladin and instead allow promotion based on a melee weap type and riding. (I believe PoR did this but never managed to get a copy).

6) Give sniper +2 range . Give bow knight just +1 range. You could also make cavalry unable to use close counter.

 

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16 hours ago, Gwyn said:

Hoping for each class path to get a masterclass is probably unrealistic. Feels like that ship has sailed which is why I'm settling for classes that patch up the worst gameplay gaps. Many a times have I lamented the fact that sniper class lines don't have a class to turn into that can cast. It's even more strange given that Mercedes, Felix and even Hanneman to an extent like to use bows.

In Hanneman's case, he has a crest of Indech which is the same one that Bernadette has. It's also worth pointing out that Indech's statue is wielding a bow. Mercedes' crest of Lamine somewhat corresponds to the Tathlum bow. No clue about Felix.

 

I feel like the master classes weren't well thought out. I mean, really? C in Lances for bow knight despite being traditionally a sword and bow class? I'm actually fine with IS not putting mage fliers in-game since wyvern lords are already broken. It would be fun to use them though.

Mortal Savants are more interesting as an enemy since they're tanking magic users so you can't just rid them immediately.

Since paladins don't have a gold knight promotion, it makes me think that master classes are more like mediocre dlc add-ons rather than a progressing path. But that doesn't explain why traditional classes like falcon knight and wyvern lord is in there...

I think this game needs more specialization classes. For example, a sniper is focused more on skill and strength while bow knights focus more on hit-and-runs. When I look at the stater classes, units have flexible weapon proficiency. I assumed that as the game progresses, your units would grow closer to their niche and drop their other proficiency. The game kinda does that but it also doesn't.

Hopefully, the DLC and future updates will address this.

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I think you are not supposed to ise all your character strenght at the same time, but those are there to allow different build.

Like Felix can go War Master, Swordmaster or Mortal Savant, but is not really supposed to use gauntlets a lot if he go Mortal. 

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