Greil (FE9) or Jeralt (FE16)

[omegaxis1]

 

 

 

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3 hours ago, Anacybele said:

 And I don't think it was well executed either. Greil at least died in an epic clash and went down fighting, and then we had Ike crying "don't leave me! Fatherrrr!" to add to the emotion. Jeralt? He simply got stabbed all of a sudden and because Byleth has to be silent in cutscenes for some reason, could not say anything to him, only cry. I won't say this is the worst character death I've seen in the series (definitely not since Fates and Awakening exist), but it still could've been better compared to Greil's death.

Hard disagree there. Characters giving a cry of anguish is typical when the parent dies. But Byleth, being the stone-cold emotionless guy, actually shedding tears and being upset over Jeralt dying, and how he actually DID try to stop his death from happening by reversing time and still failing, it shows a lot more of how much Byleth loved his father. The way Jeralt says that the first time he sees his child cry is for him, it really shows much he loved Byleth as his child. 

Also, I'm glad they didn't go with the epic clash here. Instead, it shows how Jeralt simply lowered his guard and Monica took advantage of that. And the way that it shows Byleth trying to reverse time and still failing, which I am thankful for cause my god, if he just forgot that he could reverse time, I would absolutely hate how stupid the game was being. But Byleth tried and still failed.

Also, you kidding? Sure, I doubt many would be moved by Emmeryn's death by how it was, but anyone that likes Chrom and Lissa would be utterly heartbroken by how they reacted to Emmeryn's death, and then how the sad song that continued even afterward. I would say that Emmeryn's death is incredibly well done. It would be even better if we had chances to like Emmeryn even more. 

Fates, though, definitely bad. 

[Fabulously Olivier]

I like Jeralt and all, but he never achieved the level of connection with the protagonist that Ike did, and his post-mortem legacy isn't on par with Greil's.

 

After Greil's death, you could see how it effects everyone - Ike, Mist, Titania, etc. It breaks everyone and causes two party members to leave the mercenaries.

 

Furthermore, Greil is connected with the plot in a way that Jeralt isn't. He is the motivation of the Black Knight - arguably the best villain in franchise history. He showed the danger of Lehran's medallion. He destroyed his own family and abandoned his country, contributing to a power vacuum that allowed a madman to take charge. 

 

Even Greil's death was better. He died in an epic CGI cutscene fight against an impossible foe. Jeralt got stabbed in the back by one of the worst throwaway villains in franchise history - Peri v2.

Edited August 16, 2019 by Etheus

[Anacybele]

@omegaxis1 Then I guess we disagree. Btw, I can't quote you...again.

[omegaxis1]

 

 

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3 hours ago, Etheus said:

I like Jeralt and all, but he never achieved the level of connection with the protagonist that Ike did, and his post-mortem legacy isn't on par with Greil's.

  

After Greil's death, you could see how it effects everyone - Ike, Mist, Titania, etc. It breaks everyone and causes two party members to leave the mercenaries.

 

Furthermore, Greil is connected with the plot in a way that Jeralt isn't. He is the motivation of the Black Knight - arguably the best villain in franchise history. He showed the danger of Lehran's medallion. He destroyed his own family and abandoned his country, contributing to a power vacuum that allowed a madman to take charge. 

 

Even Greil's death was better. He died in an epic CGI cutscene fight against an impossible foe. Jeralt got stabbed in the back by one of the worst throwaway villains in franchise history - Peri v2.

Dude, did you listen to how everyone reacted to Jeralt's death? Byleth wasn't the only one affected. Every student had a line, teachers even said things, and freaking NPCs had things to say. If anything, there's a much higher level of mourning for Jeralt than Greil. So I don't know what you mean by how you can see the effects of Greil when you see how it affected Byleth and the others. Hell, Byleth is slumped over the entire time for the 10th month.

The Black Knight really isn't the best. Not even close. He's literally just a guy that either is fight obsessed or just obeying orders. One of the most threatening, but the Black Knight really wasn't that great. I would even say that his being Zelgius actually ruined a lot of him in the end. 

And Jeralt's death is actually not meant to be the same as Greil's. Him being killed is cause he lowered his guard. But the point of his death is how it is impossible to stop, despite Byleth's ability to turn back time. 

[Alastor15243]

29 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

@omegaxis1 Then I guess we disagree. Btw, I can't quote you...again.

Weird, neither can I. EDIT: Looks like multiquote works.

Edited August 16, 2019 by Alastor15243

[Icelerate]

12 hours ago, Lysithea said:

Thanks to OP for the spoiler in the title. 😕

Now I know like everything about Jeralt just for reading the title.

 

In general: I really wished people would be more cautious with their thread titles because there are still people like me who have NOT played the game yet.

My title has no spoiler unless the name of a character is a spoiler.

[MisterIceTeaPeach]

8 hours ago, Icelerate said:

My title has no spoiler unless the name of a character is a spoiler.

Yes, it is. 

 Everyone who played FE9 knows that Greil is one of the most iconic and memorable (side) characters in FE. 

Spoiler

He is father one of the most famous lords in FE and failed while trying to protect him against one of the greatest warriors. 

So from the title I can gather from that Jeralt died (spoiler enough for me), probably against a big enemy like Death Knight (would be so fitting because the name is so similar to a lack Knight) while protect his (adoptive) child (still unknown for me). 

Each kind of thread which leads to a character's death, must be handled very cautiously regarding spoilers, and only spreading out the name Greil is one. 

Same goes for this.

 

There are still people who have not finished a route yet (like me) and I would like to enjoy discovering the story without getting spoilered by reading titles like that in the five latest threads.

I might react more sensible than other people, but seriously this kills the fun because I am feeling Three Houses has a senseful story unlike the majority of the other parts of this series.

 

Edit: I reached the plot twist point. 

Honestly I have not seen any similarities yet to each other because 

Spoiler

Jeralt's death was not really expecting at this point. 

 

Edited August 17, 2019 by Lysithea

[Dylan Corona]

I like Jeralt a bit more, I guess I just felt more emotionally attached to him. Seeing him every time I went around the Church, fighting with him. I like Greil a lot too, and to each their own, but to me Jeralt wins by a bit. Someone said it earlier, but that "seeing you cry line" got me a bit.

[Alastor15243]

12 hours ago, omegaxis1 said:

Hell, Byleth is slumped over the entire time for the 10th month.

I know, and it was hilarious.

Edited August 17, 2019 by Alastor15243

[Light Strategist]

If I'm honest, I feel like the difference between Greil and Jeralt was that they had Greil's information fully written and  otherwise finalized before they properly started the game's development. Almost like Greil was originally intended to be a powerful character with story significance that joins you later on but he was instead switched to being Ike's and Mist's father because it'd have been more well-rounded to writing the story.

[omegaxis1]

1 hour ago, Light Strategist said:

If I'm honest, I feel like the difference between Greil and Jeralt was that they had Greil's information fully written and  otherwise finalized before they properly started the game's development. Almost like Greil was originally intended to be a powerful character with story significance that joins you later on but he was instead switched to being Ike's and Mist's father because it'd have been more well-rounded to writing the story.

Jeralt had support points and even indications of being able to have Tea Time as well. Meaning that Jeralt is also someone that was considered to be a character that can join.

[Vince777]

Never understood the cold shoulder that Byleth kept giving Jeralt.

Pissed me off, in fact.

Not going to rate who is best between Jeralt or Greil but Byleth is definitely the shittiest of the two kids. 

[Gregster101]

While Jeralt has more screen time than Greil, I do prefer Greil at the end of the day. You got to see how things were like when he was still alive and leader of the Greil Mercenaries, and he also has I feel like more significance to the lore of Tellius games than Jeralt does in Three Houses. I also thought his death was more impactful in the long run, cuz it's a driving motivation of Ike's character arc and it also shows how emotionally broken the mercenaries were at that point. In Three Houses, everyone at the monastery does mourn over Jeralt's death and feel sorry for Byleth's loss, but they get over it rather quickly after that month, and Byleth, being a silent avatar, couldn't really emote much over Jeralt's death like Ike and Mist did over Greil's death. Furthermore, Greil's death was also meant to showcase how powerful and intimidating of a villain the Black Knight is, whereas Jeralt dies to what is essentially a one chapter mini boss in the form of Kronya. I do like Jeralt quite a bit, but between him and Greil, I do prefer Greil.

[wonchwonch]

I liked jeralt as a character more, but the villain (BK vs Kronya) and post death plot around greil was MUCH better written. Pretty close either way 🤷‍♀️

[omegaxis1]

On 8/17/2019 at 2:01 PM, Vince777 said:

Never understood the cold shoulder that Byleth kept giving Jeralt.

Pissed me off, in fact.

Not going to rate who is best between Jeralt or Greil but Byleth is definitely the shittiest of the two kids. 

Well, Byleth was revealed to have had NO emotions. It wasn't that he was being cold, it's that he didn't have any emotions to display. Because of the circumstances of his birth and what happened. Byleth's personal journey is developing his emotions. 

[eclipse]

Jeralt's no. 1 fan is Leonie.  Greil's no. 1. fan is the guy who killed him.  No contest IMO.

But seriously. . .

Spoiler

Jeralt feels like a cross between ToS Kratos and Greil, with their redeeming features stripped away.  It also doesn't help that Byleth is far less of a character than Ike.

 

[redlight]

36 minutes ago, eclipse said:

Jeralt's no. 1 fan is Leonie.  Greil's no. 1. fan is the guy who killed him.  No contest IMO.

But seriously. . .

  Hide contents

Jeralt feels like a cross between ToS Kratos and Greil, with their redeeming features stripped away.  It also doesn't help that Byleth is far less of a character than Ike.

 

And that's saying something considering the uninteresting void that Ike is in his side of supports. Wish they'd stop it with the self-inserts or at least downplay their glorification.

I honestly wish the dude was our Jagen and he'd stay for the entire game.

[eclipse]

Just now, redlight said:

And that's saying something considering the uninteresting void that Ike is in his side of supports. Wish they'd stop it with the self-inserts or at least downplay their glorification.

I honestly wish the dude was our Jagen and he'd stay for the entire game.

Ike has Actual Dialogue, so he has to have some sort of personality.  Hence why he'll auto-win over Byleth in the character department.

[Roc]

Neither were particularly interesting characters on their own.  They're both plot devices, first and foremost.  They exist to elicit rare emotional responses from stoic, unemotional main characters.  The most impactful thing either of them do is die.  

I could quibble about details - Greil had a better death sequence, while Jeralt was marginally more interesting while he was alive, mostly due to the better cast of characters around him in 3H - but honestly I don't see the point in picking one over the other.  They both serve their purpose.  

[Luckenzio]

The most interesting thing about Greil is that his death is used as a base to develop the cast. I barely even remember him from when he wasnt already a corpse.

Jeralt's death was way shittier but he actually felt like a character while he was alive.

[Rapier]

Greil works as a plot device. Jeralt works as a character.

We see very little of the former, and when we learn things about him, it's all about characters talking about who he was, and how his legacy influences others even after his death. Meanwhile, we do see the latter having good interactions with other characters, showing a more humane side and overall Jeralt has much more presence and shows more of his personality.

So I'd say Jeralt, although I'm not much of a fan of how he died. What tarnishes Jeralt imo is how Byleth is as emotionless as the FE12 MC, so he might as well be interacting with a wall.

Greil does earn some extra points because FE9 has a more robust and mature writing. 3H's writing quality comes from flavor and execution, not depth or complexity. So I'd say Greil is a better written character but Jeralt is a better executed one.

Edited August 25, 2019 by Rapier

[Alastor15243]

2 hours ago, Luckenzio said:

The most interesting thing about Greil is that his death is used as a base to develop the cast. I barely even remember him from when he wasnt already a corpse.

Jeralt's death was way shittier but he actually felt like a character while he was alive.

Really? I found Greil a really cool and impressive leader. I really got an understanding for why everyone followed him like they did. Meanwhile nearly everything we know about Jeralt's interactions with everyone but mr miming muppet is told to us, not shown.

 

Also, Jeralt's voice actor isn't very good at all, and he was a terrible choice to be the narrator. He sounds Ben Stein levels of bored narrating the months. Nowhere near as good as the Radiant Dawn narrator.

Edited August 25, 2019 by Alastor15243

[Gregster101]

37 minutes ago, Alastor15243 said:

Really? I found Greil a really cool and impressive leader. I really got an understanding for why everyone followed him like they did. Meanwhile nearly everything we know about Jeralt's interactions with everyone but mr miming muppet is told to us, not shown.

 

Also, Jeralt's voice actor isn't very good at all, and he was a terrible choice to be the narrator. He sounds Ben Stein levels of bored narrating the months. Nowhere near as good as the Radiant Dawn narrator.

Really? I actually kind of like Jeralt's voice actor honestly

[TheTuckingFypo]

Hmmm. I'm not sure. To me, it felt like Jeralt was set up to be Greil intentionally. (and doomed for eternal comparison)

Both lead a bunch of mercs, both are single fathers, etc. 

However that's really all that the same about them (asides from the FE daddy death bed trope, but that isn't exclusive to just them).

I think Greil had more impact with his death because his past was fleshed out more than Jeralt's (face it, we barely know the guy's past), but we don't have enough screen time with him to actually get a good enough feel for him a a character. (Jeralt to me was essentially SoV Saber personality wise with the responsibilities Greil had).

For that, Greil gets my vote, in spite of not actually playing Path of Radiance.

 

[Alastor15243]

53 minutes ago, Gregster101 said:

Really? I actually kind of like Jeralt's voice actor honestly

I honestly don't have a high opinion of the localization in general. It's nowhere near as good as Echoes' localization. In that one a lot more effort was put into giving each character more distinct vocabularies and speech patterns. Here it feels like every actor is trying really hard to bring their character out through dialogue where every single line was written for the same person. Claude's voice actor in particular seems to be heavily held back by the writing he was given, and I wish he was given better because he seems great.

Just go on Youtube, look up Shadows of Valentia supports, and watch Claire's support conversations with... basically anyone lower class in the game. Delthea, Grey, take your pick. Given the number of commoners in this game, a lot of dialogue between characters should feel like that, but the commoners and nobles in Three Houses talk almost exactly the same.

Edited August 25, 2019 by Alastor15243