Someone explain this plot point involving Rhea. (Major spoilers, obviously)

[CyberNinja]

48 minutes ago, MrPerson0 said:

Which paralogue? IIRC, the Alois and Shamir one takes place before the timeskip, and the Hilda and Cyril one can only be done on a non-Edelgard path.

It's the paralogue that comes literally after you conquer the alliance, Nader or Nardel the undefeated comes with a huge army and dies to Empire forces. Alois and Shamir didn't fight Almyrans, they were fakes and Hilda's has nothing to do with Nardel/Nader.

As for the argument on judicial system, its been shown that many of the students have a problem with Rhea's actions I.E. they see her response as out of the ordinary, we the viewer with no context will then take her actions as unjustified, the only ones who back her are basically those that appeal to authority (she's the archbishop I guess she knows best) or explicitly devotedly religious/fanatics and anything Rhea does is automatically just. Byleth as a character was sheltered form most of this and thus may not find these sufficient and the player would as mentioned find it reinforcing the negative view implanted in them from Jeralt's suspicions and question how justified her actions are in universe.

The game plays with player expectations as Rhea fits both the bill for the friendly Manakete guide as well as the insane dark dragon final boss, taking one or the other depending on route. Thus those playing Edelgard's route first are unlikely to ever come to a form of agreement with those that didn't. Its like how having done GD and CF with Felix recruited both times, I find it increasingly difficult not to see Dimitry as actively malevolent, never mind a Japanese trailer showing him with one hell of a slasher smile.

[MrPerson0]

1 hour ago, SHEmperor said:

It's a Edelgard paralogue but it's mostly to ward off Almyran invasion.  You can assume that they invaded either to avenge Claude or Claude lives and he tries to take back the alliance using Almyran forces.

Thanks for that info and video, must have missed it.

1 hour ago, CyberNinja said:

As for the argument on judicial system, its been shown that many of the students have a problem with Rhea's actions I.E. they see her response as out of the ordinary, we the viewer with no context will then take her actions as unjustified, the only ones who back her are basically those that appeal to authority (she's the archbishop I guess she knows best) or explicitly devotedly religious/fanatics and anything Rhea does is automatically just. Byleth as a character was sheltered form most of this and thus may not find these sufficient and the player would as mentioned find it reinforcing the negative view implanted in them from Jeralt's suspicions and question how justified her actions are in universe.

Guess that is true, though some of their objections are odd, such as Bernadetta's (asking if they tried to kill Rhea, would Rhea punish them in a similar manner), and Ashe questioning it means he still has bias towards his foster father attempting to do this. Though, the students were convinced that the members didn't want to assassinate Rhea even though it was already mentioned, and confirmed again in a paralogue.

 

[Heir of Dragons and Beasts]

On 8/16/2019 at 12:46 PM, dragonlordsd said:

So, having finished my second playthrough of the game, I'm a little lost on how exactly Rhea is evil, and why it's so necessary to kill her.

Especially why Edelgard is so driven to the whole "she must die" thing.

As far as I can see (and remember, I haven't done all the routes), the only "evil" things she does is:

1. Going all Silent Hill on you as a baby:

On the surface, this one sounds bad, but your mother explicitly asked her to do this for you. I get why Jeralt blames her, but at the end of the day, she only did what your mom asked, and it did work. You survived with not really any negative side effects (I think?)

2. Ordering you to wipe out the Western Church:

Ok, so this isn't morally upstanding, but they were attacking you guys, and most governments would respond the same way? I don't quite see how the western church is exactly innocent.

3. She's a Dragon?

But so are Seteh and Flayn. So, by that logic, shouldn't murdering Flayn be just as important? I mean, to be fair, that's exactly what Edelgard does (which is pretty f-ed up. I thought she got away at first, but Edie had her hunted down, that's super cold)

Anyway, I'm a bit lost, so can someone with a more complete picture of the lore help me out here?

Does she tell you she killed Flayn or when does this happen 

[CyberNinja]

54 minutes ago, EdelgardHresvelgTargaryen said:

Does she tell you she killed Flayn or when does this happen 

I don't recall it ever being said that happens, you get a cutscene of Rhea reading a letter from Seteth and its never mentioned again. I think it might just be some misinformation that people keep spreading without checking, or I forgot. It's been a while since I played the route and I'm usually pretty busy otherwise.

[Timlugia]

I remember Edelgard talks about how they must wipe out the dragons.

[dragonlordsd]

5 hours ago, EdelgardHresvelgTargaryen said:

Does she tell you she killed Flayn or when does this happen 

What Timlugia said. There's this scene where she's like "we must hunt down all the dragons and eradicate their kind from the world, starting with those two."

One thing I'm really quickly realizing is that there are a TON of scenes that you only get under very specific conditions, so a lot of people are disagreeing over things that happened.

[SHEmperor]

17 hours ago, dragonlordsd said:

What Timlugia said. There's this scene where she's like "we must hunt down all the dragons and eradicate their kind from the world, starting with those two."

One thing I'm really quickly realizing is that there are a TON of scenes that you only get under very specific conditions, so a lot of people are disagreeing over things that happened.

I actually do want to see where she says this because I never seen her state this ever. Does she do this if she kills Flayn or Seteth in their last fight? Plus, it seems contradictory to when Edelgard

Spoiler

simply asks Rhea to step down from the Church in the final chapter

How do you procc this dialogue? Also, if this actually has happened, this definitely looks alot worse for her even if Slithers lied to her. There's no real defense for this besides slithers tricking her with false info.

[Hauke]

On 8/19/2019 at 2:40 PM, dragonlordsd said:

What Timlugia said. There's this scene where she's like "we must hunt down all the dragons and eradicate their kind from the world, starting with those two."

One thing I'm really quickly realizing is that there are a TON of scenes that you only get under very specific conditions, so a lot of people are disagreeing over things that happened. 

I never had this scene. And how should Edelgard even know they both are dragons? It's not like it's known publically.

[CyberNinja]

1 hour ago, Hauke said:

I never had this scene. And how should Edelgard even know they both are dragons? It's not like it's known publically.

That is because I just went through every event after and immediately before the attack on the Monastery by the knights of Seiros and she either never says it if Flayn and Steth survive (as I had not killed them) or it was never said at all. The very best they have is Edelgard talking about the Children of the Goddess several chapters later but nothing suggests she knows that Flayn and Seteth are alive nor that she gave any specific order to hunt them down.

Conclusion: people are guessing or lying.

[Timlugia]

I think you are too quick jumping on your conclusion.

In the opening of BE final chapter Edelgard did say again she’s going to free the world from the children of goddess by striking down both Rhea and those around her. 

 

I would need time to review other events and in battle convos. But this one I remember well.

Edited August 20, 2019 by Timlugia

[MrPerson0]

29 minutes ago, Timlugia said:

In the opening of BE final chapter Edelgard did say again she’s going to free the world from the children of goddess by striking down both Rhea and those around her. 

Indeed. Here's what she says:

Quote

As you know, my goal is to free our world from the control of Rhea and the other children of the goddess. I seek to obliterate her, as well as those around her who use the church's power to control Fodlan. I swore to free the people from Rhea by striking her down, whether or not it meant making an enemy of you.

She seems to lump the children of the goddess with those who use the church's power to "control Fodlan", and thus, must obliterate them.

[Julian Solo]

On 8/16/2019 at 9:46 AM, dragonlordsd said:

So, having finished my second playthrough of the game, I'm a little lost on how exactly Rhea is evil, and why it's so necessary to kill her.

Especially why Edelgard is so driven to the whole "she must die" thing.

As far as I can see (and remember, I haven't done all the routes), the only "evil" things she does is:

1. Going all Silent Hill on you as a baby:

On the surface, this one sounds bad, but your mother explicitly asked her to do this for you. I get why Jeralt blames her, but at the end of the day, she only did what your mom asked, and it did work. You survived with not really any negative side effects (I think?)

2. Ordering you to wipe out the Western Church:

Ok, so this isn't morally upstanding, but they were attacking you guys, and most governments would respond the same way? I don't quite see how the western church is exactly innocent.

3. She's a Dragon?

But so are Seteh and Flayn. So, by that logic, shouldn't murdering Flayn be just as important? I mean, to be fair, that's exactly what Edelgard does (which is pretty f-ed up. I thought she got away at first, but Edie had her hunted down, that's super cold)

Anyway, I'm a bit lost, so can someone with a more complete picture of the lore help me out here?

She degenerates at the end of Silver Snow she wasn't crazy till then and you can spare her if you S rank her, so she's not actually evil in that route at all. In Crimson Flower ELs route the five years of war seems to have regressed her back into her mind set as Seiros but this route was rushed story wise without enough to time to explain like how Dimitri didn't have ptsd and implied children.

[CyberNinja]

1 hour ago, Timlugia said:

I think you are too quick jumping on your conclusion.

In the opening of BE final chapter Edelgard did say again she’s going to free the world from the children of goddess by striking down both Rhea and those around her. 

 

I would need time to review other events and in battle convos. But this one I remember well.

In teacher questions (that thing to build professor level) she asks what to do if Rhea were to surrender and the best response is to strip her of power, not kill her. Flayn and Seteth have fled and abandoned Rhea, through the context of the event conversations they're no longer in a position to rule humanity nor are they supporting Rhea and so Edelgard has little care for them. You can say this has the implication she sent assassins but the game tends toward being more heavy handed with such things, like Hubert telling the Deathknight to withdraw in the rescue flayn chapter, Edelgard asking him why he's being evil in Remire, and Edelgard all but saying she's the Flame Emperor directly after Remire (seriously if that reveal was a surprise I don't know what to say.)

In short, Hubert and edelgard seem to prefer enlightened dictatorship to tyrannical despot, they're convinced they are the heroes of the story and Rhea in this route doesn't exactly do much to dissuade them, given she sets an entire city alite with the civilians trapped inside in a fit of religious mania/insanity.

Edited August 20, 2019 by CyberNinja

[Persona fanboy]

First time on here, but yeah, Rheas pretty evil. Also I have not played the game but I have watched videos and read articles, so excuse me if I’m wrong. It’s kinda nice how she helped Byleths mom, but she then used Byleth (excuse me if I say he the playthroughs I have seen is of male Byleth) Rhea falsified history is only to bring back Sothis, who takes Byleths side. Edelgard and Rhea are two sides of the same coin. Rhea is more medieval while Edelgard is more crest hating. Also, question time: what happens if you court Flayn, will Edelgard kill her? Also chances are you court them afterwards but still.

Edited May 15, 2020 by Persona fanboy