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virtu333

Battalions Analysis

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Spent some time analyzing the various battalions (used Serenes Forest initial stats+level up gains, as there aren't Level 5 stats), here's my summary:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1m-LozIAm-_BwzrAb8TkG92bi3LAgFZo2oyslisNZYeI/edit#gid=0

One of the main takeaways is that most of the endgame battalions are in B - A gets access to a few better ones, but that's it. Meanwhile, the lord battalions at C are crazy strong and come extremely early. 

Battalions are huge stat sticks - stats like 8 physical attack or 5 prot/7 res amount to 20% or more of your natural level ups, which makes getting to B authority very worth it. They are incredibly strong. 

What it also means is that characters with good proficiencies (who can hit their class requirements faster) are better, because they can hit their authority ranks faster and get the best battalions sooner. Also relevant because bows are really strong.

Even for support units, it's relevant since some of the best gambits like stride/retribution are authority rank locked.

How I ranked:

Physical Rating Phys+Prot+Res+Hit/20+Crit/5+Avo/5

Magical Rating Mag+Prot+Res+Hit/20+Crit/5+Avo/5

Basically saying 20 points of hit, 5 points of crit, or 5 points of avoid = 1 stat point otherwise. Mostly ignored charm. I may want to re-evaluate, as crit/avoid scale well late game (e.g., 10 points of avoid=2 stats if you're about to take 20 damage, or 5 points of crit=15+ damage if you hit a crit) and are non-linear in some ways (e.g., going from 80 to 90 dodge is bigger than 0-10 since you can more much confidently dodge tank - this is even due to hit formulas (90 hit is significantly better than 20 hit due to how it's calculated)

Stride Gambits

First calling out these, as stride is damn good

Seiros Holy Monks, Kingdom Calvary, Gautier Knights - notable here that Kingdom Calvary is for BL and Gautier Knights requires the Sylvain paralogue, if you want more.

E Authority

*These are pretty bare bones - however, you can usually get some decent stats out of them, and Jeralt's Mercenaries are low key really strong

Jeralt's Mercs: 3 attack, 10 crit, 15 avoid. *f you don't rank up authority, this is really good. Endgame, 10 crit and 15 avoid is worth *a lot* and it just becomes a cichol wyvern or other A/B level battalion without as many stats

Alliance Duelist: 9 crit, 10 avoid. outclassed version of Jeralt's mercs

Kingdom Calvary: 4 atk, 5 hit, 4 prot decent starter stat stick

Alliance Mag Corp: 3 mag, 10 avoid, 4 res

D Authority

The ones here aren't super spicy and most are pretty similar, but a few stand out because they pack both Prot and Res. Also the first flying battalions for peg knights/wyverns

Kingdom Pegasus Co.: 4 atk, 5 hit,5 avoid, 3 prot, 4 res

Alliance Peg Co: 4 atk, 5 hit, 10 avoid, 2 prot, 3 res imo the strongest choice with 10 avoid

Empire Peg Co: 4 atk, 15 hit, 3 prot, 4 res

Empire/Kingdom calvary: 4 atk, 4 defense, some hit/avoid

Alliance Magic Corp: 3 mag, 10 avoid, 4 res

C Authority

Where it gets spicy. The Lord battalions are busted and comparable/better to most A and B rank, but a few others stick out as solid (Holst, Vestra). Lord battalions also get 12+ might gambits, which when paired with high strength, can deal some insane damage

King of Lions Corp: 10 phys, 5 hit, 15 crit, -5 avoid, 5 protect Probably the ultimate C battalion in terms of offense, and one of the strongest offensive battalions period

Holst's Chosen: 7 atk, 5 hit, 5 crit, 7 prot Arguably the best non-lord C battalion for physical

Immortal Corp: 8 atk, 15 avoid, 4 prot Might even be stronger than King of Lions late game thanks to the avoid - also easily the strongest flying C battalion

Supreme Armored Co: 7 atk, 6 mag, 5 hit, -10 avoid, 6 prot, 5 res The worst lord battalion because of that -10 avo - in general, kind of eh because of it. I rarely run it.

Empire/Golden Deer/Kingdom Wyvern Co: 5 atk, 5-15 hit, 5-10 crit, 4 defense Solid stat sticks for C

Vestra Sorcery Engineers: 7 mag, 10 avoid, 4 prot, 6 res The single best mage battalion, but also the tankiest C battalion

Morfis Magic Corp: 5 mag, 2 prot, 5 res Alt mage battalion but you're better off running stride on the rest of the mages

B Authority

Endgame quality battalions really start at B, and actually make up most of the best ones. Many are better than A rank battalions

Goneril Valkyries: 8 atk, 20 hit, 15 crit, 6 prot, 1 res second highest rated battalion, but 20 hit is probably not as good as some avoid (see A rank Cichol Wyvern)

Galata Pegasus Co: 7 atk, 5 hit, 10 avoid, 5 prot, 6 res 2nd tankiest battalion, available at B

Brigid Hunters: 4 atk, 10 crit, 20 avoid - might be the best for dodge tanks - 20 avoid, 10 crit

Fraldarius Soldiers: 7 atk, 20 crit, 6 prot crit monster, although probably outclassed by Black Peg or Cichol wyvern

Gautier: 6 atk, 20 avoid, 5 prot strong avoid option, but Brigid hunters trades 5 prot for 10 crit, which is probably worth it if dodge tanking

Empire Elite Wyvern: 8 atk, 10 crit, 6 prot standard stats, probably the best buyable B

Holy Knights of Seiros: 7 atk, 5 prot, 7 res Another very good one to buy at B, very tanky

Duscur Heavy Soldiers: 8 atk, 5 hit, -15 avoid, 10 prot 

Golden Deer Calvary: 8 atk, 5 hit, -5 avoid, 7 prot, 2 res

Leicester Mercs: 7 atk, 20 hit, 15 crit, 4 prot solid offensive choice

Alliance Master Archers: 4 atk, 15 crit, 10 avoid,4 prot 

Gloucester Knights: 6 phys, 6 mag, 15 hit, 5 prot, 5 res A very well rounded choice

Empire Holy Mag: 6 mag, 4 prot, 7 res probably the second strongest mage choice

Hervring Prayer Troops: 7 mag, -10 avoid, 4 prot, 6 res 

Macuil Evil Repelling: 7 mag, 30 hit, 1 prot, 6 res

A Authority

Once you get to A, you actually don't pick up that many super strong ones 

Black Eagle Pegasus Co: 7 atk, 10 crit, 10 avoid, 5 prot, 7 res the highest rated battalion by my equation, thanks to the mix of offense and defense

Cichol Wyvern Co: 7 atk, 15 hit, 15 crit, 5 avoid, 6 prot, 1 res similar to Goneril but trades some hit for avoid - probably a bit better

Black Eagle Heavy Axes: 7 atk, 10 crit, -10 avoid, 8 prot, 2 res

Golden Deer Calvary: 8 atk, 5 hit, -5 avoid, 7 prot, 2 res

Indech Sword Fighters: 8 atk, 20 hit, 10 crit, 4 prot decent offensive choice but not super amazing 

Blue Lion mag: 7 mag, 5 hit, -10 avoid, 5 prot, 7 res outclassed by Empire Holy Mag at C

To be honest, the rest of the A's, including Indech sword Fighters really, are not particularly standouts.

Edited by virtu333

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Fantastic write up and information. I can't believe this isn't getting enough attention. I would like to make a video on battalion mechanics and would love to cite/credit you and your work. DM me if that's ok!

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Nice!
I agree with a majority of this, although I wish you mentioned gambits as well. A few things I'd add outside of those:

D rank pegasus battalions have higher Cha for their rank, really helpful to have reliable gambits early on even though they don't get the best ones

Victor private militia is an amazing C rank battalion. It gives +6 Atk, +15 hit, +2 Prt, +4 Rsl, and can actually be obtained at a time where C-rank is relevant, while Holst's chosens is locked to Edelgard's route midway through the timeskip. Vestra also suffers from this, unfortunately, though you do get it a bit earlier at least.

Almyra mercs is probably the best E rank, at +5 Atk and with the Fusillade gambit.

Characters with a strength in authority are also at a big advantage since you get B rank battalions fairly early all things considered. Those are all the lords, Lysithea, Annette, Hubert, and a bit randomly but it actually helps him quite a bit, Ignatz.

Also Seteth has the big advantage of coming with cavalier unlocked and a high authority base, so he can typically be slotted in to make use of A rank dance battalions even if he never got deployed.

Edit: Oh, didn't see this was bumped. Yeah, ditto, this deserves more attention for sure.

Edited by Cysx

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Nice work! Pair with gambit ratings based on what you need (utility bot won't need stats as much as a PP or EP unit) and we've got a great start for tiering battalions.

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The idea of tiering is interesting, especially with something like Seiros Holy Monks. It's very realistic that this is the only stride gambit you get in non BL routes, which automatically makes it incredible despite its tiny stat increases. Similarly, Indech Sword Fighters are statiscally eh for A rank, but when retribution is relevant it trivializes siege tome maps.

Along the same line, availability will be a big consideration. Some B ranks are available very early, giving you huge early game stat boosts. Meanwhile, some of the great gambits (can't remember which BL battalion gives retribution at D) are single route only which imo knock them down.

This write-up is an excellent starting point, thanks for throwing it together.

Edited by Boomhauer007

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I basically agree with your rankings, especially when it comes to evaluating them on a statistical level. HOWEVER, I think "Retribution" should be looked at with almost the same level of importance as Stride. Which more or less means that Kingdom Archers should make the cut for D rank, Indech Sword Fighters should be looked at more highly at A rank, and the already very strong Black Eagle Pegasus Co. should probably be looked at as the strongest A rank.

As far as smaller nit picking comments, you put some decent comparisons between Cichol Wyvern Co and Goneril Valkyries without pointing out that Goneril Valkyries cant be used by fliers.

I also think Royal Guard should make the cut for B rank ones based on how strong offensively the gambit is. Two use 2x3 that does effective damage on cavs is approaching the same level of goodness the lord C rank ones offer.

Edited by Burklight

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I think retribution is a strange one since it is such a good gambit, and statistically it provides great boosts, but it is totally redundant to equip it on more than one unit since the effect is so long lasting and has two charges. highly doubtful youre going to be making use of more than 1 charge so in a way i do understand why it's not viewed in the same light as stride.

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10 minutes ago, NOTchazbc24 said:

I think retribution is a strange one since it is such a good gambit, and statistically it provides great boosts, but it is totally redundant to equip it on more than one unit since the effect is so long lasting and has two charges. highly doubtful youre going to be making use of more than 1 charge so in a way i do understand why it's not viewed in the same light as stride.

Totally agree that you only need one, but you still REALLY need the one. And there's only three battalions in the entire game that give it to you. So those battalions should be looked at for more than just mediocre stat bonuses.

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2 hours ago, NOTchazbc24 said:

I think retribution is a strange one since it is such a good gambit, and statistically it provides great boosts, but it is totally redundant to equip it on more than one unit since the effect is so long lasting and has two charges. highly doubtful youre going to be making use of more than 1 charge so in a way i do understand why it's not viewed in the same light as stride.

Wait, how many turns does Battalion last? I thought it was just the one!

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7 minutes ago, DefyingFates said:

Wait, how many turns does Battalion last? I thought it was just the one!

It's 5 turns

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41 minutes ago, SpiceMan said:

It's 5 turns

That changes everything! Here I thought it was only one turn like Stride...

On topic, I remember seeing this on Reddit last month, glad to see it get some attention here too! There's a ton of variety in Battalions, so it's getting a community together to sort through them all is wonderful in my book!

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On 8/16/2019 at 3:40 PM, virtu333 said:

Spent some time analyzing the various battalions (used Serenes Forest initial stats+level up gains, as there aren't Level 5 stats), here's my summary:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1m-LozIAm-_BwzrAb8TkG92bi3LAgFZo2oyslisNZYeI/edit#gid=0

One of the main takeaways is that most of the endgame battalions are in B - A gets access to a few better ones, but that's it. Meanwhile, the lord battalions at C are crazy strong and come extremely early. 

Battalions are huge stat sticks - stats like 8 physical attack or 5 prot/7 res amount to 20% or more of your natural level ups, which makes getting to B authority very worth it. They are incredibly strong. 

What it also means is that characters with good proficiencies (who can hit their class requirements faster) are better, because they can hit their authority ranks faster and get the best battalions sooner. Also relevant because bows are really strong.

Even for support units, it's relevant since some of the best gambits like stride/retribution are authority rank locked.

How I ranked:

Physical Rating Phys+Prot+Res+Hit/20+Crit/5+Avo/5

Magical Rating Mag+Prot+Res+Hit/20+Crit/5+Avo/5

Basically saying 20 points of hit, 5 points of crit, or 5 points of avoid = 1 stat point otherwise. Mostly ignored charm. I may want to re-evaluate, as crit/avoid scale well late game (e.g., 10 points of avoid=2 stats if you're about to take 20 damage, or 5 points of crit=15+ damage if you hit a crit) and are non-linear in some ways (e.g., going from 80 to 90 dodge is bigger than 0-10 since you can more much confidently dodge tank - this is even due to hit formulas (90 hit is significantly better than 20 hit due to how it's calculated)

Stride Gambits

First calling out these, as stride is damn good

Seiros Holy Monks, Kingdom Calvary, Gautier Knights - notable here that Kingdom Calvary is for BL and Gautier Knights requires the Sylvain paralogue, if you want more.

E Authority

*These are pretty bare bones - however, you can usually get some decent stats out of them, and Jeralt's Mercenaries are low key really strong

Jeralt's Mercs: 3 attack, 10 crit, 15 avoid. *f you don't rank up authority, this is really good. Endgame, 10 crit and 15 avoid is worth *a lot* and it just becomes a cichol wyvern or other A/B level battalion without as many stats

Alliance Duelist: 9 crit, 10 avoid. outclassed version of Jeralt's mercs

Kingdom Calvary: 4 atk, 5 hit, 4 prot decent starter stat stick

Alliance Mag Corp: 3 mag, 10 avoid, 4 res

D Authority

The ones here aren't super spicy and most are pretty similar, but a few stand out because they pack both Prot and Res. Also the first flying battalions for peg knights/wyverns

Kingdom Pegasus Co.: 4 atk, 5 hit,5 avoid, 3 prot, 4 res

Alliance Peg Co: 4 atk, 5 hit, 10 avoid, 2 prot, 3 res imo the strongest choice with 10 avoid

Empire Peg Co: 4 atk, 15 hit, 3 prot, 4 res

Empire/Kingdom calvary: 4 atk, 4 defense, some hit/avoid

Alliance Magic Corp: 3 mag, 10 avoid, 4 res

C Authority

Where it gets spicy. The Lord battalions are busted and comparable/better to most A and B rank, but a few others stick out as solid (Holst, Vestra). Lord battalions also get 12+ might gambits, which when paired with high strength, can deal some insane damage

King of Lions Corp: 10 phys, 5 hit, 15 crit, -5 avoid, 5 protect Probably the ultimate C battalion in terms of offense, and one of the strongest offensive battalions period

Holst's Chosen: 7 atk, 5 hit, 5 crit, 7 prot Arguably the best non-lord C battalion for physical

Immortal Corp: 8 atk, 15 avoid, 4 prot Might even be stronger than King of Lions late game thanks to the avoid - also easily the strongest flying C battalion

Supreme Armored Co: 7 atk, 6 mag, 5 hit, -10 avoid, 6 prot, 5 res The worst lord battalion because of that -10 avo - in general, kind of eh because of it. I rarely run it.

Empire/Golden Deer/Kingdom Wyvern Co: 5 atk, 5-15 hit, 5-10 crit, 4 defense Solid stat sticks for C

Vestra Sorcery Engineers: 7 mag, 10 avoid, 4 prot, 6 res The single best mage battalion, but also the tankiest C battalion

Morfis Magic Corp: 5 mag, 2 prot, 5 res Alt mage battalion but you're better off running stride on the rest of the mages

B Authority

Endgame quality battalions really start at B, and actually make up most of the best ones. Many are better than A rank battalions

Goneril Valkyries: 8 atk, 20 hit, 15 crit, 6 prot, 1 res second highest rated battalion, but 20 hit is probably not as good as some avoid (see A rank Cichol Wyvern)

Galata Pegasus Co: 7 atk, 5 hit, 10 avoid, 5 prot, 6 res 2nd tankiest battalion, available at B

Brigid Hunters: 4 atk, 10 crit, 20 avoid - might be the best for dodge tanks - 20 avoid, 10 crit

Fraldarius Soldiers: 7 atk, 20 crit, 6 prot crit monster, although probably outclassed by Black Peg or Cichol wyvern

Gautier: 6 atk, 20 avoid, 5 prot strong avoid option, but Brigid hunters trades 5 prot for 10 crit, which is probably worth it if dodge tanking

Empire Elite Wyvern: 8 atk, 10 crit, 6 prot standard stats, probably the best buyable B

Holy Knights of Seiros: 7 atk, 5 prot, 7 res Another very good one to buy at B, very tanky

Duscur Heavy Soldiers: 8 atk, 5 hit, -15 avoid, 10 prot 

Golden Deer Calvary: 8 atk, 5 hit, -5 avoid, 7 prot, 2 res

Leicester Mercs: 7 atk, 20 hit, 15 crit, 4 prot solid offensive choice

Alliance Master Archers: 4 atk, 15 crit, 10 avoid,4 prot 

Gloucester Knights: 6 phys, 6 mag, 15 hit, 5 prot, 5 res A very well rounded choice

Empire Holy Mag: 6 mag, 4 prot, 7 res probably the second strongest mage choice

Hervring Prayer Troops: 7 mag, -10 avoid, 4 prot, 6 res 

Macuil Evil Repelling: 7 mag, 30 hit, 1 prot, 6 res

A Authority

Once you get to A, you actually don't pick up that many super strong ones 

Black Eagle Pegasus Co: 7 atk, 10 crit, 10 avoid, 5 prot, 7 res the highest rated battalion by my equation, thanks to the mix of offense and defense

Cichol Wyvern Co: 7 atk, 15 hit, 15 crit, 5 avoid, 6 prot, 1 res similar to Goneril but trades some hit for avoid - probably a bit better

Black Eagle Heavy Axes: 7 atk, 10 crit, -10 avoid, 8 prot, 2 res

Golden Deer Calvary: 8 atk, 5 hit, -5 avoid, 7 prot, 2 res

Indech Sword Fighters: 8 atk, 20 hit, 10 crit, 4 prot decent offensive choice but not super amazing 

Blue Lion mag: 7 mag, 5 hit, -10 avoid, 5 prot, 7 res outclassed by Empire Holy Mag at C

To be honest, the rest of the A's, including Indech sword Fighters really, are not particularly standouts.

The lord battalions remind me of opening up a rare/legendary card from a pack!

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On 10/3/2019 at 10:46 AM, Cysx said:

Almyra mercs is probably the best E rank, at +5 Atk and with the Fusillade gambit.

Was gonna second this, but with a caveat:

Essar Research Group is absurdly good as well. +5 to both offensive stats, and +30 hit, off of an E-rank batallion? And they give the Blessing gambit, which offers a free 100% miracle, redeemable anytime, for up to 4 allies. I've found myself using it on my mages, even post-skip, over some D and C-rank options.

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Stats are nice, but so is the effect of the battalion itself.  Blue Lion Dancers shank offenses, but having a battalion that makes your entire field move again is damn strong.  Hence why I'd run it even though there's better stats options.

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6 minutes ago, eclipse said:

Stats are nice, but so is the effect of the battalion itself.  Blue Lion Dancers shank offenses, but having a battalion that makes your entire field move again is damn strong.  Hence why I'd run it even though there's better stats options.

It's definitely helpful for 1 turning. Was able to use it on byleth since usually naturally high authority ranking and EO + 1 move and shoes of wind .

 

I think Duscur Battalion has been helpful for tanking as Dedue in BL maddening. Very situational so I wouldn't say that would make a good battalion

 

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2 hours ago, eclipse said:

Stats are nice, but so is the effect of the battalion itself.  Blue Lion Dancers shank offenses, but having a battalion that makes your entire field move again is damn strong.  Hence why I'd run it even though there's better stats options.

This. While not necessarily better than the other lord battalions, Supreme Armored Co. does offer essentially a second Blaze usage.

Dance of the Goddess is awesome but unfortunately limited since you either need A Authority on Blue Lions or B Authority while waiting til near the endgame to finally get it (and it’s easily missable unless you know exactly to do) NG+ not withstanding.

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4 hours ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

Was gonna second this, but with a caveat:

Essar Research Group is absurdly good as well. +5 to both offensive stats, and +30 hit, off of an E-rank batallion? And they give the Blessing gambit, which offers a free 100% miracle, redeemable anytime, for up to 4 allies. I've found myself using it on my mages, even post-skip, over some D and C-rank options.

It is really good but I don't really like to count it, because afaik you can't get it without a Nintendo online subscription, which many won't have. But yes, it's likely even better.

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8 hours ago, Cysx said:

It is really good but I don't really like to count it, because afaik you can't get it without a Nintendo online subscription, which many won't have. But yes, it's likely even better.

Huh, I totally forgot that I got it through "online play". Would be nice to to see a compilation of how to get each batallion.

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1 hour ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

Huh, I totally forgot that I got it through "online play". Would be nice to to see a compilation of how to get each batallion.

Check the Google Doc in the OP. Also as a general rule of thumb, any Battalion named after a noble family is tied to a Paralogue associated with that family. Hope this helps!

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6 hours ago, DefyingFates said:

Check the Google Doc in the OP. Also as a general rule of thumb, any Battalion named after a noble family is tied to a Paralogue associated with that family. Hope this helps!

Thanks, yeah some are obvious, others not so much (I have to move Dorothea or Manuela to a certain tile in Enbarr to get a group dance batallion?).

Also, just a general "thank you" to @virtu333for compiling this, it's a great resource for discussion. I do think some of the low-authority batallions are undersold, in that they have the advantage of being accessible all game, rather than just later on, particularly in raw NG. I'd go so far as calling Jeralt's Mercenaries, Almyra Mercenaries, Essar Research Group, and Seiros Holy Monks all top-10 batallions.

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8 hours ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

Thanks, yeah some are obvious, others not so much (I have to move Dorothea or Manuela to a certain tile in Enbarr to get a group dance batallion?).

Thanks! And yeah, that's a tricky one to get. You can highlight the necessary building when previewing the map to get a hint of what to do, but why would you even think to do that? Same for the Seteth/ Flayn Battalion.

8 hours ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

Also, just a general "thank you" to @virtu333for compiling this, it's a great resource for discussion. I do think some of the low-authority batallions are undersold, in that they have the advantage of being accessible all game, rather than just later on, particularly in raw NG. I'd go so far as calling Jeralt's Mercenaries, Almyra Mercenaries, Essar Research Group, and Seiros Holy Monks all top-10 batallions.

Agreed, thanks OP!

As for the Battalions, yeah: I've gotten some new found respect for them too. Too bad I sold almost all the low-level ones in my last run...

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10 hours ago, dragonlordsd said:

Also the "guaranteed survive one hit" battalions. I'd like to see how those compare in terms of usage.

The Blessing Gambit is generally worse in reducing damage than Sacred Shield or Impenetrable Wall. The former nullifies all ranged attacks including magic for the rest of the turn, despite what the description says. The latter causes your units to deal and receive 1 damage for each attack during the rest of the turn. The main use of the Blessing Gambit that I can see is guaranteeing Wrath+Vantage, but damage reduction is done better by other Gambits.

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