Jump to content

What is presently the best House/Route? (And Why I think it's Blue Lions/Azure Moon)


Recommended Posts

I've done all the routes except the Church one, and from what I can tell, it is no one's favorite, and I've already put so much time into it I really need to set it down... until all the DLC is out and I will play it a ton again.

No route is perfect, and some have positives that others don't, so I can't declare my take as objective fact, but I will try my best to lay down my thoughts and see how many might agree or disagree.

Blue Lions Pro #1: Strongest White Clouds / Pre-War

The first section of the game is quite identical with each House. However, there are more connections in this House to the shared events of this story than the other two Houses. The first example of this is the battle with Lonato, who is a complete stranger to every playable unit except one who is native to Blue Lions: Ashe. The dialogue added here is slim, for naturally it cannot be pivotal because this bout must be functionally the same with or without him, but it adds a personal layer to the event that doesn't exist elsewhere. Next comes Miklan, whose existence further adds to the themes and plot of the story, but is otherwise just a bandit that needs to be put down. But there's a backstory to him: he is the older brother of Sylvain, natively in the Blue Lion house. Additionally, a man randomly joins the fight here in Golden Deer and Black Eagles, who later adds nothing to the plot. But in Blue Lions, this man, whose name is Gilbert, is related to another member of the Blue Lion's House: Annette, and becomes a part of the plot after the time-skip. Then we are introduced to the Death Knight, who is revealed to be Jeritza, who may as well just not exist, but in truth he once was Mercedes's brother, and only in this route do we get a moment where she laments his death. Other NPCs like Tomas and Monica are strangers here, but that is also the case in the other routes.

Blue Lions Pro #2: Best interactions between the main lords

In Crimson Flower, you have the option of killing Claude or chasing him off when you encounter him, and when you encounter Dimitri you kill him and the only words that can be exchanged about their opposition to one another is him lamenting her methods and her chiding him for fighting back; there is only one hint of meaningful dialogue where he calls her El, but it is never addressed other than Edel requesting in a Support with Byleth that people closest to her call her El. In Claude's route, Dimitri "dies" in the time skip, comes back for one battle, then immediately dies pathetically off-screen for real. Edelgard is run off and when fought again, she is killed, and the only meaningful line here is one for Byleth where she requests that they kill her quickly so the chaos can officially be over. But in Azure Moon, Claude isn't chased off, he leaves of his own accord to achieve his dream, but not before helping Dimitri and believing in his innate goodness, along with the professor's. They depart as friends who respect each other. Dimitri in this route is discovered to be "related" to Edelgard, and having known her as a child, which is never mentioned in the other routes. They actually meet each other, along with Hubert and Byleth, and debate the merits of the war and their feelings concerning the sacrifices being made, a great exchange concerning the conflict of Three Houses that isn't to be had anywhere else. When next they meet, Edelgard gives up even herself to her cause, and goes down bitterly resisting to the very end.

Blue Lions Pro #3: Best narrative and emotional arc

Dimitri's ideals of peace and honor deteriorate over the time skip as the bottled up demon inside him becomes dominant. Encountering him alone, so disheveled and angry, really sets the shift in tone and world following the time skip better than the other Houses, especially in Crimson Flower where the skip is incredibly sudden and the reunion just as much. Dedue is said to have died for His Highness, Dimitri's protector gone, and he cannot be interacted with. He is lost. Edel and Claude more or less are the same; less so for Claude in that despite his lackadaisical reputation, he's proven himself to be an incredibly adept leader that thrives in the chaos off the noble houses, keeping the balance precariously in check so one side doesn't get the other killed. Despite Edel's attack in the Holy Tomb and starting the war that causes so much bloodshed, she never apologizes to anyone or pulls her iron fist in any development. The students of the Black Eagles never have any investment in their cause: they didn't start the war and they don't want to kill. But the Blue Lions are acting out of defense, and many of the students are childhood friends with one another and the main lord; they are invested in their heir and have every reason to fight back.

Then Dedue returns, causing Dimitri to show the first sign of emotion other than anger since the war. His father figure Rodrigue, Felix's father, comes in despite warnings that leaving his territory as unsafe, because he hopes to find salvation in the fallen prince. At another point, a random girl requests to join the war, begging for a chance at revenge. Obviously she seems ill-equipped to join something so bloody, but Dimitri empathizes with her desire, and obsessed with his own, cannot be bothered to feel protective over her life. Then when she reveals that she really meant revenge against Dimitri for his savage actions against a band of thieves during the time skip, Rodrigue sacrifices himself to protect His Highness, and in one fell swoop he loses his father figure due to the actions of someone consumed with revenge, his dearest desire, which is all allowed to happen due to his own desire blinding him. He runs away, not knowing how to process and grieve, and Byleth chases after him and extends their hand and despite not wanting to be touched, he feels the warmth of someone alive and not the cold loneliness of the dead. This sequence of the story, for me personally, was far and away the most emotional in all of Three Houses. Only the ending of Crimson Flower with Byleth collapsing and Edelgard checking for his heartbeat, even comes anywhere close. Afterwards he returns to his friends, apologizes, and vows to repent for his behavior.

Blue Lions Con #1: No Confrontation with Those Who Slither in the Dark

This is odd because in Golden Deer's route Verdant Winds, Claude gets a post-humous letter from Hubert after defeating the Empire about the location of their base, and they fight Thales and even get a unique (and rather epic) battle with Nemesis. For what reason could Dimitri not have gotten the same info in the same manner? The fact of the matter is, it doesn't happen, and thus it is a point in Golden Deer's favor. Not Crimson Flower, which is pretty bad, because as many have noted, they are tied quite a bit with Those Who Slither, and we know Hubert is eventually aware of their HQ. Their route is even the shortest, so what is their excuse for not encountering them? Azure Moon is tied as having the most, and perhaps that might be why it isn't added onto theirs. But at least Azure Moon gets to kill Arundel, something unique to them, a character connected to Edel. He is clearly on her hit list, but he never goes down in their route. Very conspicuous.

Blue Lions Con #2: No resolution with Rhea

Rhea is brought up multiple times as someone with critical info and a strong motivation for invading the Empire. Yet, when Edelgard is defeated, she never shows up. It's so much like they forgot about her existence that even I had went a while after its completion without realizing that she just never showed up. It is a very baffling, incomplete aspect that is definitely worth mentioning, and worth putting forth as a strength in Golden Deer's route. Some info on the world and her are given in Verdant Winds, so that is a point in their favor for sure.

 

So that's about it. I think Blue Lions has strong positives that outweigh its faults (opinion), and Golden Deer is a close second, for they have lack cons that Azure Moon has, and they lack the cons Crimson Flower has, overall making it a well-rounded experience.

Anyone else with experience of multiple routes have any thoughts on how they compare to one another?

Edited by Holder of the Heel
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 121
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

4 minutes ago, Holder of the Heel said:

I've done all the routes except the Church one, and from what I can tell, it is no one's favorite, and I've already put so much time into it I really need to set it down... until all the DLC is out and I will play it a ton again.

No route is perfect, and some have positives that others don't, so I can't declare my take as objective fact, but I will try my best to lay down my thoughts and see how many might agree or disagree.

Blue Lions Pro #1: Strongest White Clouds / Pre-War

The first section of the game is quite identical with each House. However, there are more connections in this House to the shared events of this story than the other two Houses. The first example of this is the battle with Lonato, who is a complete stranger to every playable unit except one who is native to Blue Lions: Ashe. The dialogue added here is slim, for naturally it cannot be pivotal because this bout must be functionally the same with or without him, but it adds a personal layer to the event that doesn't exist without him. Next comes Miklan, whose existence further adds to the themes and plot of the story, but is otherwise just a bandit that needs to be put down. But there's a backstory to him: he is the older brother of Sylvain, natively in the Blue Lion house. Additionally, a man randomly joins the fight here in Golden Deer and Black Eagles, who later add nothing to the plot. But in Blue Lions, this man, whose name is Gilbert, is related to another member of the Blue Lion's House: Annette, and becomes a part of the plot after the time-skip. Then we are introduced to the Death Knight, who is revealed to be Jeritza, who may as well just not exist, but in truth he once was Mercedes's brother, and only in this route do we get a moment where she laments his death.Other NPCs like Tomos and Monica are strangers here, but that is also the case in the other routes.

Blue Lions Pro #2: Best interactions between the main lords

In Crimson Flower, you have the option of killing Claude or chasing him off when you encounter him, and when you encounter Dimitri you kill him and the only words that can be exchanged about their opposition to one another is him lamenting her methods and her chiding him for fighting back; there is only one hint of meaningful dialogue where he calls her El, but it is never addressed other than Edel requesting in a Support with Byleth that people closest to her call her El. In Claude's route, Dimitri "dies" in the time skip, comes back for one battle, then immediately dies pathetically off-screen for real. Edelgard is run off and when fought again, she is killed, and the only meaningful line here is one for Byleth where she requests that they kill her quickly so the chaos can officially be over. But in Azure Moon, Claude isn't chased off, he leaves of his own accord to achieve his dream, but not before helping Dimitri and believing in his innate goodness, along with the professor's. They depart as friends who respect each other. Dimitri in this route is discovered to be "related" to Edelgard, and having known her as a child, which is never mentioned in the other routes. They actually meet each other, along with Hubert and Byleth, and debate the merits of the war and their feelings concerning the sacrifices being made, a great exchange concerning the conflict of Three Houses that isn't to be had anywhere else. When next they meet, Edelgard gives up even herself to her cause, and goes down bitterly resisting to the very end.

Blue Lions Pro #3: Best narrative and emotional arc

Dimitri's ideals of peace and honor deteriorate over the time skip as the bottled up demon inside him becomes dominant. Encountering him alone, so disheveled and angry, really sets the shift in tone and world following the time skip better than the other Houses, especially in Crimson Flower where the skip is incredibly sudden and the reunion just as much. Dedue is said to have died for His Highness, Dimitri's protector gone, and he cannot be interacted with. He is lost. Edel and Claude more or less are the same; less so for Claude in that despite his lackadaisical reputation, he's proven himself to be an incredibly adept leader that thrives in the chaos off the noble houses, keeping the balance precariously in check so one side doesn't get the other killed. Despite Edel's attack in the Holy Tomb and starting the war that causes so much bloodshed, she never apologizes to anyone or pulls her iron fist in any development. The students of the Black Eagles never have any investment in their cause: they didn't start the war and they don't want to kill. But the Blue Lions are acting out of defense, and many of the students are childhood friends with one another and the main lord; they are invested in their heir and have every reason to fight back.

Then Dedue returns, causing Dimitri to show the first sign of emotion other than anger since the war. His father figure Rodrigue, Felix's father, comes in despite warnings that leaving his territory as unsafe, because he hopes to find salvation in the fallen prince. At another point, a random girl requests to join the war, begging for a chance at revenge. Obviously she seems ill-equipped to join something so bloody, but Dimitri empathizes with her desire, and obsessed with his own, cannot be bothered to feel protective over her life. Then when she reveals that she really meant revenge against Dimitri for his savage actions against a band of thieves during the time skip, Rodrigue sacrifices himself to protect His Highness, and in one fell swoop he loses his father figure due to the actions of someone consumed with revenge, his dearest desire. He runs away, not knowing how to process and grieve, and Byleth chases after him and extends their hand and despite not wanting to be touched, he feels the warmth of someone alive and not the cold loneliness of the dead. This sequence of the story, for me personally, was far and away the most emotional in all of Three Houses, only the ending of Crimson Flower with Byleth collapsing and Edelgard checking for his heartbeat, even coming anywhere close. Afterwards he returns to his friends and apologizes, and vows to repent for his behavior.

Blue Lions Con #1: No Confrontation with Those Who Slither in the Dark

This is odd because in Golden Deer's route Verdant Winds, Claude gets a post-humous letter from Hubert after defeating the Empire about the location of their base, and they fight Thales and even get a unique (and rather epic) battle with Nemesis. For what reason could Dimitri not have gotten the same info in the same manner? The fact of the matter is, it doesn't happen, and thus it is a point in Golden Deer's favor. Not Crimson Flower, which is pretty bad, because as many have noted, they are tied quite a bit with Those Who Slither, and we know Hubert is eventually aware of their HQ. Their route is even the shortest, so what is their excuse for not encountering them? At least Azure Moon is tied as having the most, and perhaps that might be why it isn't added onto theirs. But at least Azure Moon gets to kill Arundel, something unique to them, a character connected to Edel. He is clearly on her hit list, but he never goes down in their route. Very conspicuous.

Blue Lions Con #2: No resolution with Rhea

Rhea is brought up multiple times as someone with critical info and a strong motivation for invading the Empire. Yet, when Edelgard is defeated, she never shows up. It's so much like they forgot about her existence that even I had went a while after its completion without realizing that she just never showed up. It is a very baffling, incomplete aspect that is definitely worth mentioning, and worth putting forth as a strength in Golden Deer's route. Some info on the world and her are given in Verdant Winds, so that is a point in their favor for sure.

 

So that's about it. I think Blue Lions is great, and Golden Deer is a close second.

Anyone else with experience of multiple routes have any thoughts on how they compare to one another?

I agree, BL is a better route for the first time around

Flame Emperor reveal cinematic: BL>>>>>GD

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think the BL definitely has the deeper story connections and had the most work put into it, but Dimitri's evolution didn't really... impress me all that much. I played GD first, and thought it was dumb that he died offscreen, but now that I've played 3/4ths through his route it seems like that was going to be the natural conclusion if Byleth and Revenge Girl didn't happen.

Prior to Revenge Girl, it was clear Dimitri was fine with using us and leading us all to die if it meant potentially getting Edelgard's head (just potentially, because his hate and impatience certainly were working against him). Rodrigue admits that they need to scold him like the adults they are if they want to have any hope of actually accomplishing their goal, but gets upset when Felix does just that lol. It's a group of individuals who clearly see the problem but are afraid of upsetting the monarch, so in the GD route they all happily march to their demise without a second thought.

Then the inevitable happens and someone he does care about dies and I GUESS it finally strikes home? I know anger and hate tend to make people irrational but it's like he stayed an angry murderbeast teenager throughout the timeskip, without any real self-reflection or plan. 

Glad my warm hands were the final touch to put him on his path of redemption. It kind of sucks that Revenge Girl didn't get the same second or third chance but hey if you're gonna shoot for the king you better not miss.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 minutes ago, Crysta said:

Then the inevitable happens and someone he does care about dies and I GUESS it finally strikes home? I know anger and hate tend to make people irrational but it's like he stayed an angry murderbeast teenager throughout the timeskip, without any real self-reflection or plan. 

What you need to understand is that unlike the others who died in the tragedy of Duscur being countless soldiers, Glen, his stepmother and his father they all died full of despair and rage as shown in the flashback of a young Dimitri around countless dead/dying people engulfed by flames especially when his own father cries out shouting "avenge us!" so much wrapped in his emotions not realizing his son would be cursed by his final words, words in which Dimitri took to heart and mind making his sanity lapse in the process and Rodrigue's final words weren't a scar for him but what were instead his path to healing.

 

What completely sums up Dimitri's tragic descent is this very line that he speaks which Byleth after touches them. "As the sole survivor of that day, do I... Do I have the right to live for myself?" when any normal person would say "Do I have the right to live WITH myself?" and there's a huge difference right there. He doesn't view his life to be his own and instead be the dead's avenger, their salvation as he tells Randolph in carrying out their screams so that they don't go unheard of which he most certainly has carried out their, his father's wishes and is something he criticizes Edelgard on in their meeting when he's brought back on the right path.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think it boils down to I think they intended blue lions to be the "canon" route, which is why there is much more work put into the route. Something that I hope dlc or updates address, but doing the other routes just feels like... Idk, something was missing.

Also the fact that dimitri's classes all say "lord" in them, and he uses lances and sword (swords being the canon fe lord weapon and lances being a weapon cavalry use, which many FE lords either start as or promote to).

 

But whatever still ain't my fave 😉

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hmm I disagree with you. I think the 2 "major" plot points of 3H are about Rhea and TWISTD, so these 2 cons outweigh the 3 pros you mentioned imo. I have yet to finish Church route, but so far, BL is my least favorite. The lack of confrontation with TWISTD in Crimson Flower makes me think that GD route is the normal/best route since all of the questions are answered and Rhea is exposed. Crimson Flower is my personal favorite, but as for a completed route, I think GD is the best.

Edited by Spectrum
Link to comment
Share on other sites

17 minutes ago, AbsoluteZer0Nova said:

What you need to understand is that unlike the others who died in the tragedy of Duscur being countless soldiers, Glen, his stepmother and his father they all died full of despair and rage as shown in the flashback of a young Dimitri around countless dead/dying people engulfed by flames especially when his own father cries out shouting "avenge us!" so much wrapped in his emotions not realizing his son would be cursed by his final words, words in which Dimitri took to heart and mind making his sanity lapse in the process and Rodrigue's final words weren't a scar for him but what were instead his path to healing.

 

What completely sums up Dimitri's tragic descent is this very line that he speaks which Byleth after touches them. "As the sole survivor of that day, do I... Do I have the right to live for myself?" when any normal person would say "Do I have the right to live WITH myself?" and there's a huge difference right there. He doesn't view his life to be his own and instead be the dead's avenger, their salvation as he tells Randolph in carrying out their screams so that they don't go unheard of which he most certainly has carried out their, his father's wishes and is something he criticizes Edelgard on in their meeting when he's brought back on the right path.

Yeah, I'm aware that it was likely more traumatic for him than usual, but that doesn't really change the situation - only how he feels about it. Nor is it a unique situation. I know he's living for the dead, but the 'hero hellbent on revenge for the dead' trope is not new: how he actually goes about trying to enact this revenge is selfish, reckless and ultimately self-defeating. He hasn't really grown up in those five years.

I think it would have been a better and much more convincing scene if he was directly responsible for someone he cared about dying - which was something likely to occur during one of his death marches to confront Edelgard personally - and we had a What the Hell, Hero? moment. He is lucky that he got the Revenge Girl plot device thrown in and we didn't need to openly defy the Boar Prince.

Edited by Crysta
Link to comment
Share on other sites

34 minutes ago, Spectrum said:

Hmm I disagree with you. I think the 2 "major" plot points of 3H are about Rhea and TWISTD, so these 2 cons outweigh the 3 pros you mentioned imo. I have yet to finish Church route, but so far, BL is my least favorite. The lack of confrontation with TWISTD in Crimson Flower makes me think that GD route is the normal/best route since all of the questions are answered and Rhea is exposed. Crimson Flower is my personal favorite, but as for a completed route, I think GD is the best. Well, mainly in Crimson Flower and Azure Moon, and most of Verdant Winds.

I'd say Edelgard's ambitions would be classified as a third plot point, for it is the main focus of the second half of each route. That's a weird quirk in this game. White Clouds is obsessed with the Church and Those Who Slither in the Dark are connected to everything. Then the second half happens and it becomes all about the Kingdom and Alliance defending themselves against the Empire. This game is great, but definitely not perfect.

That being said, the fact that the pre-war major points are just gone, thinking the Blue Lion cons outweigh its pros is a really understandable stance to take.

Edited by Holder of the Heel
Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, Crysta said:

Yeah, I'm aware that it was likely more traumatic for him than usual, but that doesn't really change the situation - only how he feels about it. Nor is it a unique situation. I know he's living for the dead, but the 'hero hellbent on revenge for the dead' trope is not new: how he actually goes about trying to enact this revenge is selfish, reckless and ultimately self-defeating.

I think it would have been a better and much more convincing scene if he was directly responsible for someone he cared about dying - which was something likely to occur during one of his death marches to confront Edelgard personally - and we had a What the Hell, Hero? moment. He is lucky that he got the Revenge Girl plot device thrown in.

Not new in general yes but is certainly new for this series which gotta tell you it's about time they did it. I like seeing not only a character's arc and how they develop but how well they execute it and they hit the mark as last I can recall but correct me if I'm wrong but Dimitri is the 1st character if not lord in the series with ptsd which they show us in a scene with him talking to Glen and his stepmother and father about bringing Edelgard's head to them. Dimitri has a negative change arc to a positive change arc and is why gotta say he's my favorite main lord in the entire series now with his being a deconstruction of the Marth archetype. 

In regards to you further on about it being nothing new. This guy here in this video summarizes it at 3:50 to 5:42 to why there's nothing wrong with tropes. Edelgard herself is a part of the same trope to this series has been known for with it's Hardin/Arvis/Walhart archetype just that she can possibly be one that wins should you do her route but at the end of it all she's still the same trope this series has once before done so surely you view her the same as Dimitri in that case though like I said earlier having tropes isn't a bad thing.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well, I'm hella biased but I also agree that Blue Lions is the Best Route, but I say this not having played BE or the Church Path yet. I've just started BE. Let me be clear and say I'm not saying it's the most "canon" route, but it is the best for me.

Whereas Golden Deer focuses on Lore (which is perfectly fine), Blue Lions focuses on characters and that's why I think it's so strong for me. I fully agree with your first point because all of those early fights meant something to my students as a Blue Lion and made sense for a lot of the decisions later on in the War Phase. It was a bit strange in GD to go through them because none of them have any connection to my house and Gilbert not only has no relation to my house, but is never seen again. And the Flame Emperor reveal was so played down in GD, it definitely had much more impact in BL.

As for interactions between the lords, while I don't know how this is done in BE, GD felt underwhelming to me. Dimitri dies offscreen after being seen for all of 2 seconds total in the entirely of the time skip and Edelgard is really only being stopped because it seems to just be the morally just thing to do, not because of any emotional reasoning like in Dimitri's case, which makes her feel a bit like she's on the back-burner as the villain (mainly because GD really just wants to find Rhea for answers). BL I feel does a really good job of incorperating all of them since Claude makes several appearances in BL and we actually speak to him on screen. 

I do agree with your cons though; for all their talk of Rhea, she really does amount to nothing in BL after she is rescued. We also have no idea what happened with TWSITD. I don't mind that since our main enemy is Edelgard, but it would have at least been nice to speak to Rhea after everything that happened.

But, as a whole, I definitely find BL to be the strongest in terms of story and character arc and the weak points are definitely on leaving a lot of unanswered questions regarding everything else.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, AbsoluteZer0Nova said:

Not new in general yes but is certainly new for this series which gotta tell you it's about time they did it.

No it isn't. Raven from FE7 has the same sort of deal going on, but he isn't a main character, so...

I'm fine with the PTSD and how he ultimately turns out, but the arc itself is... clumsy and resolves itself in a single chapter. And Good Dimitri is suddenly back and showing he's capable of the self-reflection that has apparently evaded him all these years.

Also never said there was anything wrong with tropes. Hell, I linked one wishing they did that one instead.

tl;dr, Dimitri's redemption arc might actually be the weakest part of the BL route, writing-wise.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I find BL very nice for how deeply and well it explores the characters, but the story is not the best for me. I've come around to consider it a good "spinoff" to look more into your characters, because from a story perspective I feel bad the moment I side with Dimitri. It just doesn't make sense for me to follow blindly a mad king.

I haven't played GD but I'm looking forward to it, it seems like the only path where we're actively trying to understand what's going on.

As of now, I take Crimson Flower as my canon, I look at it as the best course of action and ending for Byleth and Fodlan all.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The only issue I actually had with the BL route is that TWSITD wasn't clearly dealt with and how quickly Dimitri turned around. They could have stood to have another chapter where he was processing things and in the middle of being conflicted. I quickly got over the Dimitri thing though because quite frankly, he's precious and I was just relieved to have him back lol.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, timon said:

I find BL very nice for how deeply and well it explores the characters, but the story is not the best for me. I've come around to consider it a good "spinoff" to look more into your characters, because from a story perspective I feel bad the moment I side with Dimitri. It just doesn't make sense for me to follow blindly a mad king.

I haven't played GD but I'm looking forward to it, it seems like the only path where we're actively trying to understand what's going on.

As of now, I take Crimson Flower as my canon, I look at it as the best course of action and ending for Byleth and Fodlan all.

I see it less as following a mad king blindly, but trying to defend against the empire with the kingdom while also trying to save Dimitri from himself along with the aid of his classmates and childhood friends. Although I don't entirely disagree with your take. It seems like we would have charged right into the Empire, before helping his own Kingdom, based on his orders. They make it sound like there is at least a little strategic benefit to that in the sense that getting Rhea and stopping the Emperor would end conflict everywhere else so it's like obtaining victory across the land. I'd be afraid though if this was real life where if we were about to defeat the empire but she threatens to use those back in the Kingdom as hostages.

Alternatively, in Crimson Flower, the students follow Edelgard despite her attacking them because either A) they are from the Empire and figure they should just follow it, B) they want to follow the professor, or C) they just don't want to deal with the Empire as an enemy (Linhardt). The decision to protect Edelgard as the professor itself was hard for me to justify, especially in the moment. Rhea is... well, Rhea. But we've been privy to scenes where the Flame Emperor is engaging in some shady behavior, and we just had to fight her and some oddly bloodthirsty subordinate of hers. Deciding to follow her after that is quite the heel turn for our course at that point. "Protecting Edelgard" isn't a crazy choice if that was purely what it was, she was your student after all, but it leads to following her as well, entirely vindicating everything she has done up to that point.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 hours ago, Chocolate Kitty said:

I think it boils down to I think they intended blue lions to be the "canon" route, which is why there is much more work put into the route. Something that I hope dlc or updates address, but doing the other routes just feels like... Idk, something was missing.

Also the fact that dimitri's classes all say "lord" in them, and he uses lances and sword (swords being the canon fe lord weapon and lances being a weapon cavalry use, which many FE lords either start as or promote to).

 

But whatever still ain't my fave 😉

Something I noticed during the Battle at Gronder is that the typical colors for player, enemy, and third-party units lined up well for Dimitri’s perspective in terms of the primary color for each nation 

Blue for Dimitri (“hero party”)

Red for Edelgard (“primary enemy party”)

Yellow for Claude (“third party not really directly involved in the conflict”)

So now it feels weird for the red or yellow party to be the blue player units, the colors don’t line up!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 hours ago, Crysta said:

No it isn't. Raven from FE7 has the same sort of deal going on, but he isn't a main character, so...

I'm fine with the PTSD and how he ultimately turns out, but the arc itself is... clumsy and resolves itself in a single chapter. And Good Dimitri is suddenly back and showing he's capable of the self-reflection that has apparently evaded him all these years.

Also never said there was anything wrong with tropes. Hell, I linked one wishing they did that one instead.

tl;dr, Dimitri's redemption arc might actually be the weakest part of the BL route, writing-wise.

I don't entirely disagree with what you're saying, although I think the issue of resolving things very quickly is a bit of trend in this game in general. Endings, the time skip, deaths, it all can pass in the span of a chapter or even less. I feel as though more work was put into Dimitri's "return" than just about any other major event in this game, or at least just as much work.

I definitely would say that Dimitri's change could have been better, easily. This goes for his reveal in the Holy Tomb, where he loses it, that also could have been transitioned a bit better. Unfortunately, Three Houses is a bit break-neck when it comes to things. Transitioning from fighting against the Flame Emperor and dissidents of the Empire--to fighting with the Emperor and against the Church, Nemesis arriving, etc. Major changes and events just kind of happen with a snap in all routes.

Edited by Holder of the Heel
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I disagree. I completed BE, BL and GD and I think that if I try put my own feeling aside as much as I can I'd rate GD as the best route with BE second and BL last.

The only interesting (and mind you it is really interesting) that BL does is deconstructing a marth like lord in Dimitri but aside from that there's a lot that doesn't make that much sense (the kingdom never should have been able to send reinforcements) and some of the maps are straight up worse versions of the same maps in the GD route. The BL route also doesn't deal with TWSITD, not in game or in the ending slides.

 

Edited by Hekselka
Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 hours ago, Crysta said:

Dimitri's redemption arc might actually be the weakest part of the BL route, writing-wise.

I would take that one step further and say it's one of the weakest parts of the entire game. 

On paper the idea is fine. I like that a main character has mental traumas from something horrible having happened and it warping them and affecting them negatively, giving them something deeply personal to overcome. Pushing away friends and family on the way to recovery is also good in theory.

However, the execution is simply not there. Dimitri's post-timeskip self is too over the top to be believable and is treated so awkwardly. He goes from thinking only of vengeance and hallucinating about the dead judging him back to his pre-timeskip self within ONE chapter. Everyone kind of awkwardly ignores how seriously far gone Dimitri seems, and it's a wonder there's not some kind of max desertion from the army considering how he acts. Gilbert, Rodrigue and the other students kind of shrug it off and immediately start talking about something else whenever he goes off on his rants.

What bothers me with this on another level is how this is ALL tied to the Tragedy of Duscur. He doesn't think about his country being torn to pieces during this time at all. Why isn't that a part of his arc? Dimitri's mental state getting worse (though without going full cartoon caricature on us) as he fails to protect the kingdom his father left him would make more sense to me than him snapping over the Tragedy of Duscur. Yes, Edelgard was his friend, but since the Tragedy isn't even fully explored or explained, we don't even know why Dimitri is so convinced she had something to do with it. 

It feels as though Dimitri has two character development whiplashes over the course of the game, and it's so awkward to read his supports after he has come to his senses post timeskip; it's like nothing happened. 

Edited by Thane
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Because I’ve had so little time to play 3H, I’m still on my first play through, GD run. Just got to ch.14.

While it does seem that BL is the least popular route, the most common positive I’ve seen, is how strong the cast of characters are, and their relationships with one another. I’m planning on doing BL next and am looking forward to that the most.

Also, and I’m hoping I’ll change my mind as I get deeper into the GD story, but so far, I’ve felt very little camaraderie between the GD kids? I’ve seen this critique from others, but I’ve also seen how much others have adored the GD kids, so I feel like I must be missing something??

I’ve gotten up to most of the B supports btw the kids, and the only ones I’ve truly enjoyed for far are all the ones involving Claude, Marianne and Lorenz. Hilda and Lysithea are great as individuals, but I can’t say I’ve really enjoyed their supports with the other kids besides Claude and Lorenz.

Also, and this is just my personal opinions, but I just can’t bring myself to like Ignatz, Leonie and Raphael. That’s like half of the GD crew. Idk what it is. I got Ignatz and Raph’s A support soon after starting ch.14, but felt nothing emotionally towards them. I’ve been told Leonie gets better post time skip, I hope I’ll agree, because man, I could not stand her pre time skip and have been pretty “meh” towards her supports with the other kids.

I’ve also recruited a bunch of the BE kids and two BL kids and have liked them a lot more for the most part.

Again, I’m guessing I’ll feel differently once I finish my GD run, but being with the BL crew is what I’m looking forward to the most rn

Edited by xchickengirlx
Link to comment
Share on other sites

33 minutes ago, Thane said:

I would take that one step further and say it's one of the weakest parts of the entire game. 

On paper the idea is fine. I like that a main character has mental traumas from something horrible having happened and it warping them and affecting them negatively, giving them something deeply personal to overcome. Pushing away friends and family on the way to recovery is also good in theory.

However, the execution is simply not there. Dimitri's post-timeskip self is too over the top to be believable and is treated so awkwardly. He goes from thinking only of vengeance and hallucinating about the dead judging him back to his pre-timeskip self within ONE chapter. Everyone kind of awkwardly ignores how seriously far gone Dimitri seems, and it's a wonder there's not some kind of max desertion from the army considering how he acts. Gilbert, Rodrigue and the other students kind of shrug it off and immediately start talking about something else whenever he goes off on his rants.

What bothers me with this on another level is how this is ALL tied to the Tragedy of Duscur. He doesn't think about his country being torn to pieces during this time at all. Why isn't that a part of his arc? Dimitri's mental state getting worse (though without going full cartoon caricature on us) as he fails to protect the kingdom his father left him would make more sense to me than him snapping over the Tragedy of Duscur. Yes, Edelgard was his friend, but since the Tragedy isn't even fully explored or explained, we don't even know why Dimitri is so convinced she had something to do with it. 

It feels as though Dimitri has two character development whiplashes over the course of the game, and it's so awkward to read his supports after he has come to his senses post timeskip; it's like nothing happened. 

He never really switched personalities though? Dimitri admits that his bloodthirstiness is part of his character in one of the supports and I don’t think it’s a result of him going mental. We get a glimpse of his ‘crazy’ pre skip too but he apologised about it. With that, I think that’s why most of BL isn’t bothered by ‘crazy’ Dimitri as most of them (especially Ingrid, Felix, sylvain and Dedue) all knows that they’re not dealing with a different Dimitri. It’s the same Dimitri but he’s no longer suppressing his bloodthirstiness. In their perspective, even though he’s bloodthirsty and violent, it is directed towards the enemies and not everyone.

It wasn’t really a sudden change in personality but more like him caring enough to control his emotions again. IIRC, we see that he ‘turns on’ the ‘crazy’ side of him again near the end of his route. 

Also his anger/actions isn’t all connected to the Tragedy of Duscur though? This is more of my own interpretation than the game’s explanation but I think it’s more of him not wanting the living to carry the burden of the dead again. He was almost executed by people that defected to the Empire and he thought Dedue died for him. I think that caused his PTSD of Tragedy of Duscur to surface again because he thought he lost someone that’s arguably the closest and most important to him again. He sees Edelgard as the person responsible for the war and directed all his anger and the state of his country (past and present) towards her. 

I haven’t played any of Edelgard’s route so maybe it will explain more about the tragedy of Duscur.

If anything, what made the least sense to me was why Edelgard declared war on the church and then proceeded to invade the other two countries forcing them to side against the Empire. Her unwillingness for dialogue also confuses me. Maybe playing her route would explain that though.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, zuibangde said:

He never really switched personalities though?

No matter what the characters say, this simply isn't true. Yes, he had to hold back a bit of a violent side before which was harder to hold back later, but he's very clearly also a good person at heart with many more facets to him than being obsessed with the deceased. The fact that you can't support him or do anything with him in general until he snaps back to his pre-timeskip self underlines that.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 hours ago, Holder of the Heel said:

I definitely would say that Dimitri's change could have been better, easily. This goes for his reveal in the Holy Tomb, where he loses it, that also could have been transitioned a bit better. Unfortunately, Three Houses is a bit break-neck when it comes to things. Transitioning from fighting against the Flame Emperor and dissidents of the Empire--to fighting with the Emperor and against the Church, Nemesis arriving, etc. Major changes and events just kind of happen with a snap in all routes.

It's a little more forgivable in those instances because the shift doesn't really include drastic character shifts, but rather story shifts. It may have been less jarring if we spent another chapter fighting Edelgard after her big villain reveal, but ultimately it wouldn't have actually changed much. Dimitri's character arc was hinted at and planned well before the time skip and it still just... flopped.

As for Dimitri's personality - the guy goes from getting mad at you for going "that's the nature of war" when you're talking about civilian losses in one of the early pre-skip missions to implying he wants to torture Randolph when you capture him. He's also informed that the citizens of his capital are suffering when you're discussing what your first move should be, and he insists on marching to Enbarr because it's the most direct route to Edelgard - so he's certainly not concerned about his country at that point and attributing his murder hobo tendencies to him being angry about that isn't really backed up by the story. He snaps back to being a decent person after Fleche/Rodrigue makes him see the light.

 

7 hours ago, xchickengirlx said:

Also, and I’m hoping I’ll change my mind as I get deeper into the GD story, but so far, I’ve felt very little camaraderie between the GD kids? I’ve seen this critique from others, but I’ve also seen how much others have adored the GD kids, so I feel like I must be missing something??

This is because they are just a bunch of kids who have been thrown into a class together. Claude's been there for only a year, and they have the most commoners. The other two houses are comprised of mostly nobles who have been faffing around with the royals/house leaders and each other for years before arriving the monastery. Quite a few of their C supports involve them stepping on toes while trying to get to know each other lol.

If you're looking for touching, background heavy supports then BL has the better batch, imo. Still disappointed that we never get to see Holst.

 

Edited by Crysta
Link to comment
Share on other sites

16 hours ago, Crysta said:

It's a little more forgivable in those instances because the shift doesn't really include drastic character shifts, but rather story shifts. It may have been less jarring if we spent another chapter fighting Edelgard after her big villain reveal, but ultimately it wouldn't have actually changed much. Dimitri's character arc was hinted at and planned well before the time skip and it still just... flopped.

As for Dimitri's personality - the guy goes from getting mad at you for going "that's the nature of war" when you're talking about civilian losses in one of the early pre-skip missions to implying he wants to torture Randolph when you capture him. He's also informed that the citizens of his capital are suffering when you're discussing what your first move should be, and he insists on marching to Enbarr because it's the most direct route to Edelgard - so he's certainly not concerned about his country at that point and attributing his murder hobo tendencies to him being angry about that isn't really backed up by the story. He snaps back to being a decent person after Fleche/Rodrigue makes him see the light.

 

Character shifts, or the conspicuous lack thereof, are rampant in Three Houses. Supports can span any length of time, from one week to the next, or more notably, after five years, everyone comes back as if distilled in a hyperbolic time chamber and things just proceed as if normal. No matter the setting or mood in the monastery, you can invite them to tea and they will always be happy and charming. The game progression and mechanics come first, always, and characters will flimsily justify whatever they must for the sake of it, like when the Black Eagles House awfully explain why they are going along with the Empire's war.

This kind of stuff is in contrast with Dimitri who is the only one to really have a change over the years of being alone, dead to the world, amidst a bloody war. It seems sudden, because for us it IS, we skipped all those years. Plenty of things are done to set up his shift as you say. Sure we can say that more should be there, but I don't think it's a fault of Dimitri and the Blue Lions route being weak writing wise. It may come across that way to some because in this instance, this shift in his characters directly correlates with the direction of the story, whereas everyone else must at all times be expendable and thus superfluous in their changes or lack thereof (and the other main lords that are tied in the main story don't see too much development). The march of the story and gameplay is clearly dominant over characterization everywhere you can see in all routes. So instead of me seeing it as Dimitri being bad, it is relatively exceptional, but because it's on another level than the dynamic of the gameplay that dictates the pace, it might stick out in a way that isn't favorable, but it's not a fault of that story but rather the game itself in my opinion. Dimitri's arc aims higher, and maybe the game doesn't have the bowstring strength to do it the justice it deserves, but I fault the bow, not the arrow.

You say that if we had spent another chapter fighting Edel it wouldn't have changed much... but having another Chapter with Dimitri being in a stage between a "monster" and his chivalrous self, would that have changed much? The end result is still the same. Sure I too would have liked more exploration of it, but it is still arguably the most characterization we have for anyone. It's not even that his difficulties just disappear, he says to Byleth that the "voices" of the dead still haunt him, but he's not going to try and silence them anymore. I don't see them both strictly as contradictions either. I think his vengefulness and hatred is directly born from his weakness and his tendency towards idealism. The world is much harsher than he wants it to be, and there is much suffering, and he could not handle his loss. Edelgard responded to her trauma by hardening her heart, but his own heart in contrast is soft and cannot bear the thought of such actions being done by people, so his sensitivity gives birth to the opposite extreme. Is this deeply, fully explored? No, but like with all characters, main lords or otherwise, I don't always need all of it bit by bit.

Edited by Holder of the Heel
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
 Share

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...