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How would you rebalance Lunatic Mode?

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Well independent of the mounted unit question I would like if the AI would also try to preserve their units on harder difficulties. To use tank units to block your way to the archers and mages, so you have to utilize flyers and teleport skills to get into their backline.

It would also be fair if dismounting/mounting would cost a turn - meaning you couldnot attack in the same turn you dismount.

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Id say do things like how conquest did, adding more skills to regular enemies. Some skills for archers that will lower whoever they hit with a penalty. I forgot the skills and amount while typing this. 

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Quicker class mastery could help armor units like Dedue and Raphael since they can get quick reposte earlier and actually be relevant late game. Ofc this wouldn't help Mortal savant though.

Buffing classes could work. I doubt they will nerf a class because that could cause backlash from fans or maybe include more better non mounted classes(hopefully it isn't dlc locked) since there is no good sword master class(mortal savant is pretty mediocre even without the movement issue).

I didn't see anybody bring this up but buff weapons. Swords and gauntlets are pretty bad. Gauntlets are only good until brave weapons come in play. Swords are one range locked. Buffing them could give more of a reason for people wanna use respective master classes, mortal savant and war master. 

Probably not the best choice but...

Make adjutant more like pair up, but only have it work with move. Like if I pair my war master with a flier, my war master will have 8 move like the flier, no stat buffs. This could allow more variety of classes since it fixes the movement problem.

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But nerf are required, because as thing are now, they can give us a gauntlet whit 99 might and people would still not using them because WL can kill everything anyway. The only way i can fathom is a super stride that give 10 mov to foot units.

Edited by Flere210

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If were talking Nerfs and Brave Weapons back to back, allow me to suggest this: Maybe Brave Weapons should be nerfed.

That a Weapon that only requires B rank allows you to hit twice on player phase without any conditions is quite something.

And I really not sure that their 12-14 WT is enough to balance it out.

I'm not sure how I would go about doing it, but many times I think they shouldn't be allowed to double at all on enemy phase.

 

Edited by Hyper L

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Also introduce Dex based weapons, Bows specifically.

Actually it would just be better if bows in general were based on Dex period. It makes so much more sense than basing them on Str.

I know that won't happen this game but at least I can still wish for a Dex Bow to be added into the game.

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2 hours ago, BakanGin said:

Id say do things like how conquest did, adding more skills to regular enemies. Some skills for archers that will lower whoever they hit with a penalty. I forgot the skills and amount while typing this. 

Is Lunatic not already available on hacked Switches? Among other things, I read that most enemies get Breakers from the very beginning, Archers get Poison Strike, Thieves get Pass, only your fastest units will double enemies...

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52 minutes ago, Flere210 said:

But nerf are required, because as thing are now, they can give us a gauntlet whit 99 might and people would still not using them because WL can kill everything anyway. The only way i can fathom is a super stride that give 10 mov to foot units.

Currently wyverns can kill anything, but in lunatic it might be a different story. 

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Sniper gets Bowrange +2, Bow Knight gets nerfed back to Bowrange +1 (or no Bowrange +, let's be real, it didn't need the range increase.)

Actually, bonus range effects from skills and staves should be disabled when on a horse. Even with this, a player could just dismount after moving full range with lol Dark Knight Lysithea with her 5 range dark magic Thyrsus wombo combo.

Dark Bishop and Mortal Savant get Reason range +1.

As for fliers, as others said, all I can really see is more threatening archers. Maybe some Excalibur mages in the lategame too idk. Fliers are always a hard beast to balance.

Remove Stride from the game, or nerf it to +2 move for nonmounted/no effect for mounted.

Make stair/wasteland tiles more prevalent.

I was thinking that having a "Strong Winds" kind of terrain effect that slows down fliers and lowers their evasion would be something good for the series, but I highly doubt we'll ever get something like that.

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49 minutes ago, Jakkun said:

I was thinking that having a "Strong Winds" kind of terrain effect that slows down fliers and lowers their evasion would be something good for the series, but I highly doubt we'll ever get something like that. 

There was a map in fates that did this (I know it was birthright because it's Reina's join map), it largely only helped you since you were on a ship with fliers coming at you but they have done it before.

And then of course there was Hinoka's map in CQ that took your idea to another level lol.

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5 minutes ago, Boomhauer007 said:

There was a map in fates that did this (I know it was birthright because it's Reina's join map), it largely only helped you since you were on a ship with fliers coming at you but they have done it before.

And then of course there was Hinoka's map in CQ that took your idea to another level lol.

Oh yeah that's right, idk how I forgot about Hinoka's map since that one's also one of my favorite maps, though iirc most people just abuse Hinoka's version of the DV letting them zoom through the whole thing with Camilla.

I didn't know that Birthright had that though, that was the one route I never played. If that is truly the case I hope they revisit those anti-flier effects in the future.

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I don't think they will change anything in the game. They won't nerf/buff anything, they will keep this game the same.

Lunatic mode will feature more powerful ennemies, maybe weapon triangle ? Nothing more i believe.

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Fliers are broken, remove Canto from fliers, reduce 1 mov of all fliers, Increase Res penalty of Wyverns and Give a Def penalty for Pegasus/Falcon. They would still probably be the best classes anyway, but at least, it would make me think twice.

I feel Horses are very well balanced in this game, they suffer growth penalties and big mov penalties from terrain, if anything they need a buff. But they are ok.

Bow Knights on the other hand, are broken, but i think the problem are bows, not the class, they should add a line on close counter that removes the ability to double on enemy phase, if attacked from melee range.

Remove mov penalties from terrain (bar desert) from all advanced and master footlock classes.

Said that, I don't think it is a problem that all my endgame classes are mounted, I think it is nice, but fliers are too strong.

I cannot believe that free dismount/mount isn't just an oversight, it is stupid, they should fix that.

They should buff javelins and hand axes, removing 3 wt, maybe. They would still be worse than bows at range, all enemies have 3~4 range anyway, but it would benefit from Prowess and stoping me from putting a bow in every character.  (On a similar note, I think they did a great job with magic weapons this time, they are great.)

They should decrease the weight of all swords, they are bad, the classes that use/need it as primary weapons are bad, they would still be bad, but at least it would be a little bit easier to double with it.

As for enemies, give one tile barriers and more Health Bars (like certain boss in a specific route) for all bosses where the condition is to kill commander. I love LTC runs, but being able to one turn 50% (maybe more) of the maps in this game is just absurd. Maybe give more than one health bar (but no barriers) to key enemies well positioned on the map.

At this point, it is easier to make the next game already, hehe. But i'd like to see that.

Ps.: Armors will always be bad in fire emblem (Love you Benny! xD)!

 

Edited by Haarom

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Mounting/Dismounting taking an action to do, or half an action so they can attack but not move after mounting/dismounting. Wyrmslayers and more archers, as well as a few more beastslayers.

 

They need to change the enemy to really balance the game, give them more skills make us think more before taking actions.

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Bosses need to be more protected. Currently, the majority of them are in the open waiting to be attacked by a flier or siege tome. Also leads to bosses needs to be tougher in general. They don't feel that different compared to normal enemies. Some dragonskin Esque move to make them bulkier can help.

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the way they could balance the mounted / dismounted situation is mounted units on foot having less move range than non mounted foot units on foot . I also think dismounting should have more of a penalty than it does like taking the turn to dismount / mount as removing your penalty’s is a huge game changer and almost makes worries of archers and such on a flying unit non exsistant . The last thing I think could help would be auto dismount in indoors parts of a map or indoors maps . This then gives foot units advantage on indoor maps and mounted units a advantage on outdoor maps 

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On 8/20/2019 at 11:39 PM, Humanoid said:

Only just noticed Wary Fighter isn't in the game. Seems a pretty big omission in making armoured units play to their potential, on both sides. Having a counter to DK other than Lysethia would have been nice.

On 8/21/2019 at 5:00 AM, Flere210 said:

Imo armors need quick riposte or vengenful fighters, not wary fighter. Also aother coubter to DK is Sylvain because lance of ruin+knightkeeler either oneshot him or leave him whit 1 or 2 hp.

17 hours ago, Skell_ said:

1. Wary Fighter: High speed units just tearing your baddies apart? Negate their ability to double. Keep it so it still it still breaks at 50% so they're immune to ORKO from lighter units but can still be realistically beaten by one.

Wary Fighter is actually in the game. They, uh, just merged it with Quick Riposte (or screwed up QR's implementation horribly). >.>

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You guys talk a lot about the imbalanced classes and lack of weapon variety of the enemies, but not much on the general economy of the game. Weapon durability is brought back but the fact items can be repaired or reforged for full uses I think needs to be seriously addressed that makes weapon durability pointless for high grade weapons. Iron+ weapons are just too cost effective and deal with most normal enemies. Stat buffs would solve this for sure to encourage using more expensive items. Though this leads to another problem. You are given a lot of really strong weapons too easily. The fact brave weapons can be made bought or even found in some level is pretty insane. Part 1 giving you legendary items as sometimes as early as chapter 6 is pretty insane. Even the legendary items are easily repairable with umbral steel in random battles or various story enemies dropping 2-5 of them. A simple change would be to reduce the amount of money or reduce the amount of material items obtainable. 

Another thing that I think could fix some problems is bringing back the weapon triangle or have enemies have breaker skills. Fliers might have to use a different weapon type and lose their faire skills just to survive a group of enemies like falcon knights might need to use their swords against the numerous warriors/ fortress knights. Right now enemies are extremely inaccurate and breakers basically only exist for your benefit. 

One question that's on everyone's mind is do you think IS would balance 3 Houses with patches? Patching games have made games last longer but those were also multiplayer focused. Doing it in a single player game would be interesting to see.  

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Back in fe 1&3 dismounting dropped all your stats significantly and mounting and dismounting also cost your unit a turn.  This would help.

I know this probably won't happen or be popular, but how about giving weapon abilities to enemy units, like grounder or helm splitter etc.  This won't solve the flier issue cause helm splitter is for armors, but I think it would make things interesting from a tactical perspective.

Removal of threat lines in lunatic would make it harder.  More reinforcements/better timing on them, they usually are turn based not location based, they should pop up behind you or near you when you pass a certain point, would make it more interesting.

As far as bosses go, you gotta give them ranged weaponry or the retaliate at any range skill, too many can be range killed without retaliation.

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I think you need to know if the update with lunatic will change mechanics or be like other titles and only change enemies. I'm skeptical lunatic will change how stats work for classes or how dismounting works. Unless it's a confirmed "balance"/"tuning" update, I'd assume you can only think about how maps/enemies can be tuned in order to make the game more difficult.

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28 minutes ago, Centh said:

I think you need to know if the update with lunatic will change mechanics or be like other titles and only change enemies. I'm skeptical lunatic will change how stats work for classes or how dismounting works. Unless it's a confirmed "balance"/"tuning" update, I'd assume you can only think about how maps/enemies can be tuned in order to make the game more difficult.

Well as far as "mechanic changes" go, the Lunatic mode currently coded into the game features Halved Exp. We just don't know if they'll keep that on the final version.

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4 hours ago, Technoweirdo said:

Wary Fighter is actually in the game. They, uh, just merged it with Quick Riposte (or screwed up QR's implementation horribly). >.>

Just read the thread... Let's just give all the enemy Generals quick riposte. Also, this feels more bugged than anything. Maybe they simply change the speed stat but didn't remember to change it back at some point. Seems odd.

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Give more enemies combat arts and better skills.

I agree with the sentiment about nerfing mounted units but it's not going to happen, the changes needed go well beyond the scope of what Lunatic would change. At most you'll have to think twice about overextending.

55 minutes ago, Hyper L said:

Well as far as "mechanic changes" go, the Lunatic mode currently coded into the game features Halved Exp. We just don't know if they'll keep that on the final version.

God I hope not, unless .

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On 8/21/2019 at 12:42 PM, Hyper L said:

The only way to truly fix Flyer Emblem is to balance patch the game.

Definitely agree. The game is optimally played by fliers and a handful of other viable classes not just because of enemy placement/typing and map design but because many classes and their associated abilities are just not good enough. Like you, I think an actual balance patch to accompany Lunatic is needed, although also like you, I doubt we'll see this happen. Assuming, for the sake of discussion, that such a patch is on the table, here's how I think you fix Lunatic:

Changes to Enemies

  • Give all, or nearly all, bow enemies Close Counter and improved physical defense.
  • Create a new ability "Counter Gambit" and stick it on some enemies. It will allow an enemy with an attached battalion to make a follow up attack based on their battalion's might against your character when your character uses a Gambit on them (no more free hits, at least not every time).

Changes to Mechanics

  • Mount/Dismount ends unit's turn on use.
  • Institute a Move hardcap of 8.

Changes to Growth Rates/Stat Modifiers

  • For intermediate classes, improve growths as follows: Mercenary (+5 Dex), Armored Knight (+5 Str, +5 Spd), Archer (+5 Str), Priest (+5 Mag); reduce growth rates as follows: Brigand (-5 HP). Remove the -Spd modifier for Armored Knight. 
  • For advanced classes, improve growths as follows: Hero (+5 Dex), Fortress Knight (+5 Spd); reduce growths as follows: Wyvern Rider (-10 Spd). Remove the -Spd modifier for Fortress Knight.
  • For master classes, improve growths as follows: Mortal Savant (+5 Mag), Great Knight (+5 Def), Holy Knight (+5 Res); reduce growths as follows: Barbarossa (-10 Spd), Falcon Knight (-10 Spd), Wyvern Lord (-5 Str, -10 Spd). Remove the while-mounted -Spd modifier for Great Knight.

Other Changes

  • Sniper to Bow Range +2, Bow Knight to Bow Range +1. 
  • Hero to 6 move, like Assassin, but without the terrain slowdown resist.
  • Give Swordmaster class skill Lunge (will help a bit with movement without being a direct +1 move buff); here, it would work by extending attack range with non-magical swords from 1 to 2, and would move the unit up one space in order to put them in melee range.
  • Astra improved from 5x0.3 to 5x0.4.
  • Priest mastery skill changed from Miracle to something more useful.
  • Mortal Savant mastery skill changed to an Ignis type damage buff.
  • Death Blow and Fiendish Blow changed from +6 Str/Mag to +4 Str/Mag.
  • Great Knight mastery skill changed to Conquest (eliminate effective damage types against this unit).
  • Holy Knight mastery skill to Countermagic.
  • Reduce XP requirements for mastery skill by about 15-20%, or make one or two Knowledge Gems purchasable from very early on. 

 

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