Best Classes of your Students (and Faculty) Encore: Edelgard, Dimitri and Claude

[Jakkun]

Mercedes: Dark Knight if you can muscle past that stupid Lance weakness, Gremory if you don't want to deal with the headache.

Ignatz: I dunno what to do with Ignatz myself but he seems like one of the most reliable units to hit things from 5 range so maybe Bow Knight.

Flayn: She makes a serviceable dancer if you don't have one in mind, but I would suggest making someone with Riding proficiency your dancer. Gremory otherwise.

[Wuzzy]

Mercedes - Bishop is her best class. Alternatively you could make her a Gremory but, since she does have access to Physic, I'd prefer the +10 Heal boost from Bishop to ensure she gets a stronger Physic heal along with the  Heal Staff equipped. Dark Knight is also another option (the Lance bane isn't too big of a deal since you only need her to get C rank Lances which isn't too difficult to achieve) since her Reason list is decent but, it's still a lot more effort (and  you won't be able to focus on her Faith since you'll most likely be focusing on Reason/Riding the entire time). Holy Knight is a big noob trap since she doesn't have any skills that benefit from White Tomefaire and, she loses White Magic x2 and Healing +10.

Ignatz - Bow Knight is his best class but, he can also make a pretty decent Dancer as well with his Reason budding talent. While Ignatz is generally overshadowed by Claude and Leonie, he still has a niche of having the +2 range from Bow Knight with a lot of Hit and Dex to make him a crit archer (Claude doesn't get extra range in his personal class, while Leonie has hit issues if you go the Cavalier -> Bow Knight route. Alternatively due to his high Dex growth, he can be an Assassin that relies on Lethality too (though I don't really like him as an Assassin tbh).

Flayn - Ideally, Gremory is the way to go for the extra move for more Rescue strats but, Flayn's Reason pool isn't that good and she almost never sees combat anyways so she'll almost always fall behind in exp with the lack of combat exp. With that in mind, her best class is Bishop since it requires the least investment overall. Rescue is really nice in this game when used along Stride even though Rescue has been nerfed compared to other games (I mean it refreshes use after every battle so obviously they will have to nerf it). Once again, Holy Knight is a noob trap class, while the extra move is nice for Rescue, she gets less Rescue uses and doesn't have any spells that benefit from White Tomefaire (not that any of the offensive Faith spells are any good). The bane is Riding is also harsh due to the A rank requirement for Holy Knights. Also Dancer Flayn is a waste since it forces you to decide between Rescue and Dancing.

Edited September 9, 2019 by Lunarly

[Technoweirdo]

20 minutes ago, Shadow Mir said:

Are we all forgetting Rescue got nerfed to hell in this game? That Mag/4 range pretty much means you'd need an assload of magic to have any range worth noting - good luck with that.

Not that I know of. And frankly, I'm not sold on Bolt Axe Annette being good - that 15 weight is too damn much for me to ignore. Combine that with that deplorable 60 base accuracy (which forging doesn't help with), and I'd be better off with her as a mage.

Re: Rescue
Yes, Rescue got a range nerf as did Warp.
But they're also spammable now. Overall much better for general use.
LTC? Much more debatable compared to other games as Rescue's uses there are limited, but that might be all the uses you'd need. Don't know; LTC's not something I really follow.
That said, people will still take any extra movement Rescue would give unless the range is 1, and Flayn starts with 4 range iirc.

Re: Bolt Axe Wyvern Annette
Haven't tried it myself, but the theory behind it is sound as enemies generally don't have a Res stat.
It's the closest you'll get to a flying mage, combining the best movement type with the best damage type.

And to be fair, something like Levin Sword Falcon Knight [character]...
A) Hits softer due to lack of Swordfaire on a flier and Levin Sword being weaker than the Bolt Axe.
B) Isn't even any more accurate once you factor weapon proficiency abilities. Dodgier, yes (especially with Sword Avo +20 if you're willing to give up a Dancer), but not more accurate.

[Flere210]

Rescue and warp were rebalanced not nerfed.

Mag/2 when the cap is 25 is the same as mag/4 when the cap is 50 lol. Flayn has 55% mag growth whitout class mods, hitting at least 40 is not hard at all.

[Technoweirdo]

11 minutes ago, Flere210 said:

Rescue and warp were rebalanced not nerfed.

Mag/2 when the cap is 25 is the same as mag/4 when the cap is 50 lol. Flayn has 55% mag growth whitout class mods, hitting at least 40 is not hard at all.

Some games have a fixed range of 10, some games have all the range.
Some have Mag/2 opposed to Mag/4 -- but I'm sure the mages in those games have more than half of Flayn's Mag growth.
In that sense? Nerfed. I don't think it's drastic, but it did get nerfed.

Worst thing about the nerf might be Spirit Dust's range-boosting value. From +1 to +0.5. Hard nerf.
Can be compensated for with gardening which other games don't have, buuuut I don't know how that works.

[Shadow Mir]

22 minutes ago, Flere210 said:

Rescue and warp were rebalanced not nerfed.

Mag/2 when the cap is 25 is the same as mag/4 when the cap is 50 lol. Flayn has 55% mag growth whitout class mods, hitting at least 40 is not hard at all.

Which ignores that a 25 cap is infinitely easier to hit than a 50 cap. And sure, she might be able to get 40 magic... around endgame, that is.

24 minutes ago, Technoweirdo said:

Re: Bolt Axe Wyvern Annette
 Haven't tried it myself, but the theory behind it is sound as enemies generally don't have a Res stat.
It's the closest you'll get to a flying mage, combining the best movement type with the best damage type.

And to be fair, something like Levin Sword Falcon Knight [character]...
A) Hits softer due to lack of Swordfaire on a flier and Levin Sword being weaker than the Bolt Axe.
 B) Isn't even any more accurate once you factor weapon proficiency abilities. Dodgier, yes (especially with Sword Avo +20 if you're willing to give up a Dancer), but not more accurate.

The theory is sound, yes, but how it works in actual practice is another matter altogether. And I dew nut have high hopes for that whatsoever.

Sure, the Levin Sword is weaker, but it also isn't so heavy that it murders your AS and makes a meal out of its remains.

Edited September 9, 2019 by Shadow Mir

[dragontamer]

10 minutes ago, Shadow Mir said:

Sure, the Levin Sword is weaker, but it also isn't so heavy that it murders your AS and makes a meal out of its remains. 

 

I only use Bolt Axe / Levin Sword on endgame Fortress Knights / Great Knights, which have extremely low AS. I'm not sure if AS is an issue.

 

EDIT: Ah, you mean a hypothetical Annette Build? Hmm... I agree with you. Mages want to use magic, not heavy weapons like Bolt Axe or even Levin Sword. Excalibur  is 11 Might 8 Weight, which basically means +7 speed over a Bolt Axe. While its +2 Might / +1 Weight over the Levin Sword.

Edited September 9, 2019 by dragontamer

[Technoweirdo]

1 minute ago, Shadow Mir said:

The theory is sound, yes, but how it works in actual practice is another matter altogether. And I dew nut have high hopes for that whatsoever.

Sure, the Levin Sword is weaker, but it also isn't so heavy that it murders your AS and makes a meal out of its remains.

That's the thing: You don't need a double or to worry about getting doubled if you hit hard enough.
And, at the moment, enemies really are that crap at taking hits. >_>
I've had a Lysithea with worse Spd than Raphael. Trust me when I say that she didn't care.

[Flere210]

Most caster want to oneshot not to trade blows, so in general you are better off whit 70 power and 0 as that whit 50 power and competitive as.

[Jakkun]

35 minutes ago, Flere210 said:

Most caster want to oneshot not to trade blows, so in general you are better off whit 70 power and 0 as that whit 50 power and competitive as.

Yeah i'm pretty sure that WL Annette with Fiendish and Axefaire will nab many OHKOs with Bolt Axe, and even agaisnt the bulkier targets she can still secure OHKOs with her relic weapon's combat art which is Lightning Axe on steroids.

[Shadow Mir]

1 hour ago, Technoweirdo said:

That's the thing: You don't need a double or to worry about getting doubled if you hit hard enough.
And, at the moment, enemies really are that crap at taking hits. >_>
I've had a Lysithea with worse Spd than Raphael. Trust me when I say that she didn't care.

As I see it, though, using a Bolt Axe over Excalibur reeks very heavily of being a flat-out losing trade... >_< You shit away 7 AS for what, 4 might, aka not enough to make up for it (and this is ignoring any potential magic gains from being in a mage-type class, so this might be even less than that)? Yeah, no. I think that's about as smart as robbing a police station.

1 hour ago, Flere210 said:

Most caster want to oneshot not to trade blows, so in general you are better off whit 70 power and 0 as that whit 50 power and competitive as.

Yeah, until Murphy's Law comes and bites you in the ass. Then you have a liability.

[dragontamer]

Endgame monsters are 100+ HP  (at least, on their final life on normal mode). They may have magic-immunity when their barriers are up, but its still useful to "nuke" a life and one-shot them when their barrier goes down. They seem to have low speed however, so maybe its still possible to 2x hit them even with -10 or so speed.

 

Have endgame monsters been data-mined yet? Their stats (especially per-life HP statistics) would be very helpful in this discussion.

[LegendOfLoog]

Mercedes: Bishop. Gremory is not really that great of a class for her because Mercedes isn't really a primary attacker. She has Physic and Fortify, making her pretty much the best healer in the game. Both Bishop and Gremory give White Magic Uses x2, but Bishop also gives +10 on all healing. Movement is important, but +1 Move doesn't matter much for a Physic bot. 

Ignatz: He's kind of like the other members of the Archer Trio. He desperately needs Death Blow, but Bow Knight is still his best option. 8 Move and 4 range is just too good to pass up. Assassin is also ok but suboptimal in comparison.

Flayn: Flayn is terrible. She joins at Level 11, comparatively underleveled at that point, with around 14-15 Mag iirc and 8-9 Speed. She also only has Nosferatu at base, one of the heaviest and weakest tomes in the game. To even make her semi-usable as a combat unit, you have to spoonfeed her kills. Even then, she's can never be a Dark Knight, so her offense will suck regardless. And Rescue being Mag/4 is bad as well because that means you have to give her those kills to properly use the only unique utility that she has which sucks in the meantime. If you're going to use her, it's best that she's either a Bishop or a Dancer. Otherwise, she's terrible. 

Since we're bringing up Annette, Bolt Axe is kind of ok, but not great. You physically cannot have one in NG until the 12th month, and that's only assuming you abused the Fistfuls of Fish event. Assuming you have the Arcane Crystals, the only real benefit of it over using Lightning Axe is that it's 2 range. You won't gain 3 range until the Dark Merchant comes, and even then, it weighs her down by 9 AS on the final map on average, so she's only doubling with Darting Blow usually. Lightning Axe and Crusher are the real reasons magical Wyvern Lord Annette works, and Bolt Axe is just occasionally useful.

Whether you're going Dark Knight or Wyvern Lord Annette (please don't make her a Gremory), she's going to want Fiendish and Darting Blow for sure. I tested out how reasonable it would be to get a C+ in Axes for Lightning Axe, and a C in lances with a D in flying to become a Pegasus Knight before focusing on Reason and Riding to become a Dark Knight. I ended up with all the required ranks for Dark Knight just in time, so it should be easy enough to have Darting Blow and Fiendish Blow regardless of her endgame class. It took me around 6 levels in each, but that's pretty much the best case scenario. For Dark Knight, the strategy is Monk -> Mage -> Pegasus Knight. At Level 20, cheese a Paladin or Wyvern Rider certification for the extra Strength that will come in handy later. Once Pegasus Knight is mastered, she can go Warlock until Dark Knight. Her relevant offensive stats should be around 26.55 Str, 36.7 Mag, and 22.65 Speed dismounted. Compare this to Wyvern Lord's 31.65 Str, 31.55 Mag, and 29.85 Spd when going through Monk -> Pegasus Knight -> Mage -> Wyvern. 

If we're just talking Weight here, Bolt Axe weighs WL down by 9 while Excalibur weighs DK down by 3. But since DK has much worse Speed, WL still has higher AS despite the weight difference. I don't really understand why the discussion is so heavily focused on Bolt Axe though because that's not even the reason WL Annette is good. WL Annette is good because it has strong mixed offenses, flight, and higher AS generally. It's undeniably stronger through all of pre-skip and some of post-skip, and there's only really an argument in DK's favor later on since it has a higher effective attack range and the final map doesn't benefit fliers. 

[Azure the Scale Tipper]

Mercedes: It is difficult to choose between Bishop and Gremory. Either you take the one that provides better healing or the one that provides better movement. In the end, I just decided on Gremory. Her magic effectiveness and range can be boosted by the class’s growths and magic-boosting items.

Ignatz: Ignatz is pretty tricky, but he is suited to do well in the Archer class. It’s just that he is outclassed by the likes of Leonie and Claude in his house. That said, you can simply have him go down the Archer route to Bow Knight while you focus on making Leonie a Cavalier-turned-Bow Knight and Claude as a Wyvern Rider, then a Wyvern Master.

Flayn: I chose Gremory simply because the class’s movement + Stride makes her good with Rescue, as nerfed as it is. Dancer is the next best option, but it may not work on certain paths.

Spoiler

Namely Black Eagles, if you side with Edelgard.

Voted for Raphael, Catherine, and Cyril for next round.

[Jakkun]

1 hour ago, dragontamer said:

Endgame monsters are 100+ HP  (at least, on their final life on normal mode). They may have magic-immunity when their barriers are up, but its still useful to "nuke" a life and one-shot them when their barrier goes down. They seem to have low speed however, so maybe its still possible to 2x hit them even with -10 or so speed.

 

Have endgame monsters been data-mined yet? Their stats (especially per-life HP statistics) would be very helpful in this discussion.

I know for a fact that the Giant Demonic Beasts in GD chapter 20 have like 5 speed and no magic immunity. I believe the Titanus after that are also extremely slow, since they're the demonic beast equivalent of fortress knights.

[Shadow Mir]

1 hour ago, LegendOfLoog said:

Mercedes: Bishop. Gremory is not really that great of a class for her because Mercedes isn't really a primary attacker. She has Physic and Fortify, making her pretty much the best healer in the game. Both Bishop and Gremory give White Magic Uses x2, but Bishop also gives +10 on all healing. Movement is important, but +1 Move doesn't matter much for a Physic bot. 

Ignatz: He's kind of like the other members of the Archer Trio. He desperately needs Death Blow, but Bow Knight is still his best option. 8 Move and 4 range is just too good to pass up. Assassin is also ok but suboptimal in comparison.

Flayn: Flayn is terrible. She joins at Level 11, comparatively underleveled at that point, with around 14-15 Mag iirc and 8-9 Speed. She also only has Nosferatu at base, one of the heaviest and weakest tomes in the game. To even make her semi-usable as a combat unit, you have to spoonfeed her kills. Even then, she's can never be a Dark Knight, so her offense will suck regardless. And Rescue being Mag/4 is bad as well because that means you have to give her those kills to properly use the only unique utility that she has which sucks in the meantime. If you're going to use her, it's best that she's either a Bishop or a Dancer. Otherwise, she's terrible. 

Since we're bringing up Annette, Bolt Axe is kind of ok, but not great. You physically cannot have one in NG until the 12th month, and that's only assuming you abused the Fistfuls of Fish event. Assuming you have the Arcane Crystals, the only real benefit of it over using Lightning Axe is that it's 2 range. You won't gain 3 range until the Dark Merchant comes, and even then, it weighs her down by 9 AS on the final map on average, so she's only doubling with Darting Blow usually. Lightning Axe and Crusher are the real reasons magical Wyvern Lord Annette works, and Bolt Axe is just occasionally useful.

Whether you're going Dark Knight or Wyvern Lord Annette (please don't make her a Gremory), she's going to want Fiendish and Darting Blow for sure. I tested out how reasonable it would be to get a C+ in Axes for Lightning Axe, and a C in lances with a D in flying to become a Pegasus Knight before focusing on Reason and Riding to become a Dark Knight. I ended up with all the required ranks for Dark Knight just in time, so it should be easy enough to have Darting Blow and Fiendish Blow regardless of her endgame class. It took me around 6 levels in each, but that's pretty much the best case scenario. For Dark Knight, the strategy is Monk -> Mage -> Pegasus Knight. At Level 20, cheese a Paladin or Wyvern Rider certification for the extra Strength that will come in handy later. Once Pegasus Knight is mastered, she can go Warlock until Dark Knight. Her relevant offensive stats should be around 26.55 Str, 36.7 Mag, and 22.65 Speed dismounted. Compare this to Wyvern Lord's 31.65 Str, 31.55 Mag, and 29.85 Spd when going through Monk -> Pegasus Knight -> Mage -> Wyvern. 

If we're just talking Weight here, Bolt Axe weighs WL down by 9 while Excalibur weighs DK down by 3. But since DK has much worse Speed, WL still has higher AS despite the weight difference. I don't really understand why the discussion is so heavily focused on Bolt Axe though because that's not even the reason WL Annette is good. WL Annette is good because it has strong mixed offenses, flight, and higher AS generally. It's undeniably stronger through all of pre-skip and some of post-skip, and there's only really an argument in DK's favor later on since it has a higher effective attack range and the final map doesn't benefit fliers. 

 

Bold: Isn't the result of certification exams fixed? Ergo, if you have a 60% pass chance and the game deems you to fail, won't you always fail until you increase your chance of passing?

[LegendOfLoog]

11 minutes ago, Shadow Mir said:

Bold: Isn't the result of certification exams fixed? Ergo, if you have a 60% pass chance and the game deems you to fail, won't you always fail until you increase your chance of passing?

I don't think so. On the day that you decide to certify for a class, it is fixed, so you can't savescum to get a certification on that day. On the next certification day, you can try again, and sometime, the unit will pass instead without increasing their ranks significantly. It's apparently all decided beforehand which days are successes and which are failures, I guess. 

[dragontamer]

16 minutes ago, Shadow Mir said:

Bold: Isn't the result of certification exams fixed? Ergo, if you have a 60% pass chance and the game deems you to fail, won't you always fail until you increase your chance of passing? 

Not quite.

The results to pass are fixed per week. You get a new chance per week. I definitely kept doing a 30% pass rate until it worked (took me only two weeks actually, got lucky there). I got unlucky and had to take a 70% pass rate 4x however with another character...

Save-scumming will allow you to save the master-seal. But otherwise you can't "Try again" until next week.

Edited September 9, 2019 by dragontamer

[The Black Pot]

Poor Raphael. The least favorite of all the students.

 

Mercedes is the best healer in the game, between her spell list, her personal, and her crest. Getting Physic and Fortify means that she doesn't need to be anywhere near the group, so Bishop to maximize her healing ability and double the chances to trigger her crest with Fortify.

 

Can healing adjutant be an option? Ignatz doesn't have anything particularly special, specializing in bows in a house with Claude ad Leonie with worse stats and a poor personal. If you want to actually use him, Bow Knight lets him at least use the personal for extra long range attacks. Otherwise, make him an Assassin and just have him run around opening chests and stealing.

 

Rescue is really cool, and she's the better user of it due to her existent magic stat. Fortify is also really neat. Holy Knight if you want her to be a better Rescuer, though Nosferatu is her only spell that would benefit from Tomefaire. Bishop improves Fortify and lets you use more Rescues, but at severely reduced mobility.

[dragontamer]

Ignatz has awful stats, but has Rally Speed (Authority D), Rally Dex (Authority C+) , and Rally Strength (Authority S).

 

Ignatz himself is awful, but the character who gets +4 / +4 / +4 Speed / Dex / Strength at endgame is going to love him. The question is which class does this the best? It suggests that someone else should be the dancer, but a "Rally-bot" on Dancer gives Ignatz more ways to support your team. Wyvern Lord is tough with his penalties on Flying.

 

Hmm... give my vote for Ignatz == Paladin. Dancer might be good too though. Maybe Assassin, depending on how "Stealth" really works.

Edited September 9, 2019 by dragontamer

[Shadow Mir]

21 minutes ago, The Black Pot said:

Poor Raphael. The least favorite of all the students.

Given that he sucks, that's not surprising.

43 minutes ago, dragontamer said:

Not quite.

The results to pass are fixed per week. You get a new chance per week. I definitely kept doing a 30% pass rate until it worked (took me only two weeks actually, got lucky there). I got unlucky and had to take a 70% pass rate 4x however with another character...

Save-scumming will allow you to save the master-seal. But otherwise you can't "Try again" until next week.

I see. Thanks for the info.

[Tombstone88]

Mercedes: Mercedes has 3 viable options: Bishop, Gremory and Dark Knight.  Bishop is easy to access and maximizes her utility, but she's stuck on 4 range and loses out on some killing power.  Gremory is easy for her to access and gives her a combination of power and utility without maximizing either.  Dark Knight is a pain to access but maximizes her mobility and killing power.  Overall, I'd say Gremory is best for her.

Ignatz: I've only ever used Ignatz once, mainly because he's just so weak compared to every other archer in the game.  That said, Bow Knight is the obvious best choice, as he gains mobility and bowrange +2.  I haven't tried utility Ignatz, so I can't really comment on how effective it is.

Flayn: I've also only ever used Flayn once, so I can't say I'm very familiar with her.  She just starts off so weak compared to the rest of your units when she joins.  The two best fits seem to be either Gremory for double Rescue/Fortify casts or Dancer for pure utility.  I'd say Gremory is best overall.

[Jayvee94]

The interest in this thread is getting less and less. 😢

The poll closes due to its displacement from the first page.

The Results:

• Mercedes: Gremory
• Ignatz: Bow Knight
• Flayn: Gremory, Dancer
• Poll 8: Raphael, Hanneman, Cyril

The poll has offically started. Here are my thoughts:

• Raphael: He's built for War Master, as suggested by his starting lesson plan. For some strange reason, his other lesson plans are Hero and Fortress Knight, both UU tier classes. (Funny Raphael of all people has the only one with a "Hero" lesson plan).
• Hanneman: This professor stats with Bows and Reason for lesson plan. While his sacred weapon just happens to be a bow, his strength lies of his Reason skill. So Dark Knight.
• Cyril: Axes and Bows. His lesson plans help him toward Wyvern Lord and Bow Knight, both Uber classes. Although to be honest

 

[Jakkun]

Big Raph: Oh no its another episode of the War Master vs Wyvern Lord debacle. Both classes help out his speed in different ways. WM lets him stick with gauntlets, which despite what anyone says, is a godsend for a slow slugger like Raph. Wyvern Lord forces Raph to catch up in actual speed and admittedly is probably a better long term investment for the guy. Despite all of that, i'm gonna vote War Master because its cooler.

James Moriarty: Just like fellow crest scholar Linhardt, Hanneman is a mage that really wishes Gremory wasn't genderlocked. Mr. Peanut's niche is being a Meteor on a stick, but 4 move and the existence of Dorothea kind of invalidate this to a degree. If you're content with one meteor drop per map, Dark Knight is his best class since he actually has Riding proficiency unlike 90% of the mages in this game thank god.

Claude Jr. : Cyril is a blessed boy who has a free pass into the two best classes in the game. Wyvern is Wyvern, and the fact that you can use Bows in the class makes it even stupider. Bow Knight's extra attack range is also somewhat dulled by horses being screwed by all types of terrain in this game. However with all this said, I think both of his options are rather even, as just having 4 attack range gives him a lot more safety for his frail arse. I'm torn between the two but i'm gonna go with BK for now.

Edited September 11, 2019 by Jakkun

[Tombstone88]

Raphael: Raphael really only has 2 viable options: Wyvern Lord and War Master.  War Master is easier to attain and has a really good class mastery, while Wyvern Lord is Wyvern Lord.  Technically Wyvern Lord is best if we're talking LTC/max efficiency play, but I'm gonna vote War Master purely because it's not Wyvern Lord, and I want a bit of diversity.

Hanneman: He has strengths in Reason and Riding, and he's neutral in Lances.  He's geared toward Dark Knight.  Pretty straightforward.

Cyril: Cyril has the aptitudes to be either a Wyvern Lord or a Bow Knight.  His defense growth is really, really bad though, so even with Aptitude's 20% growth increases, he'll be rather frail.  As such, I find that Bow Knight suits him better, so he can capitalize on his strengths without putting himself on the front lines.