NFL Season '19/20 (Dan Snyder is the worst owner in professional sports: Change My Mind)

[NoirCore]

1 hour ago, Anacybele said:

EDIT2: Fuck you too, refs. This had no business being OT, we should have won then and there but instead they had to throw a bullshit roughing call when there was NOTHING there! The commentators even said it was bad AND with some emphasis! FUCK YOU REFS.

You need to calm down. Deep breaths.

We got lucky on a couple Baltimore challenges ourselves that were pretty important and looked the opposite of what the final calls were. Commentators themselves said those were bad calls, too, so we're not so victimized ourselves.

Honestly, it was a good game in my opinion, as painful as the loss was after the heartbreaking injury. At least Hodges looked pretty good and Rudolph was able to stay conscious.

Edit: And stop bullying poor Juju for a fumble that got real lucky to stay in bounds. Cut him? Stupid idea.

Edited October 6, 2019 by NoirCore

[Anacybele]

5 minutes ago, NoirCore said:

You need to calm down. Deep breaths.

We got lucky on a couple Baltimore challenges ourselves that were pretty important and looked the opposite of what the final calls were. Commentators themselves said those were bad calls, too, so we're not so victimized ourselves.

Honestly, it was a good game in my opinion, as painful as the loss was after the heartbreaking injury. At least Hodges looked pretty good and Rudolph was able to stay conscious.

Okay on calming down, you're probably right. That call was still the worst though, because it basically directly let to an OT in which the Ravens of course won. Those other calls came much earlier, even if they weren't great. That roughing call hit the hardest.

It was a good game overall and I'm pleasantly surprised that we appear to be deep at QB. But Juju still has to go. That's two seasons in a row he's literally fumbled away and that's unacceptable. Also, he overall hasn't proven that he can be a no. 1 WR in general since his performance hasn't been much like AB or Hines Ward at all. He's had a decent play here and there, but not enough. He isn't putting up many big numbers at all. Time to move on and find someone else. Steelers have a history of drafting and crafting great WRs, but they didn't get lucky this time.

Edited October 6, 2019 by Anacybele

[NoirCore]

9 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

That call was still the worst though, because it basically directly let to an OT in which the Ravens of course won. Those other calls came much earlier, even if they weren't great. That roughing call hit the hardest.

It was a good game overall and I'm pleasantly surprised that we appear to be deep at QB. But Juju still has to go. That's two seasons in a row he's literally fumbled away and that's unacceptable. Also, he overall hasn't proven that he can be a no. 1 WR in general since his performance hasn't been much like AB or Hines Ward at all. He's had a decent play here and there, but not enough. He isn't putting up many big numbers at all. Time to move on and find someone else. Steelers have a history of drafting and crafting great WRs, but they didn't get lucky this time.

No, the THOUGHT of cutting him is ridiculous, and I do not apologize for being blunt as hell when I say that's a stupid idea. And over an unlucky fumble that was fortunate to stay in-bounds? Reminder that Juju has the most recieving yards of all WRs on the team, best average and is a class act who will admit his mistakes unlike a previous circus clown you tried to defend before he went to Oakland. Oh, he's not putting up godly numbers his first 3 seasons! What a bust! ...give me a break.

And I don't care how early those calls were, they were still important.

Edited October 6, 2019 by NoirCore

[Anacybele]

1 minute ago, NoirCore said:

No, the THOUGHT of cutting him is ridiculous, and I do not apologize for being blunt as hell when I say that's a stupid idea. And over an unlucky fumble that was fortunate to stay in-bounds? Reminder that Juju has the most recieving yards of all WRs on the team, best average and is a class act who will admit his mistakes unlike a previous circus clown you tried to defend before he went to Oakland.

And I don't care how early those calls were, they were still important.

Not one "unlucky" fumble that cost us the game. Two. Remember last year against the Saints? Juju had the exact same thing happen at the end of the game and the Saints went on to score easily. That's two seasons in a row, and Juju's fumbled other times besides this too. We need a no. 1 WR that will actually hold onto the damn ball. Even before he lost the ball today, every time he'd get it I was somewhat afraid he'd fumble it again. And sure enough, my fears were realized. I gave him a chance after what happened in that Saints game and all, but now? I'm going to be terrified of him ever being thrown the ball.

I'm not defending AB anymore. He doesn't deserve it. He had actual talent and almost never fumbled though. Shame he's just a circus clown now as you describe.

[NoirCore]

1 minute ago, Anacybele said:

Not one "unlucky" fumble that cost us the game. Two. Remember last year against the Saints? Juju had the exact same thing happen at the end of the game and the Saints went on to score easily. That's two seasons in a row, and Juju's fumbled other times besides this too. We need a no. 1 WR that will actually hold onto the damn ball. Even before he lost the ball today, every time he'd get it I was somewhat afraid he'd fumble it again. And sure enough, my fears were realized. I gave him a chance after what happened in that Saints game and all, but now? I'm going to be terrified of him ever being thrown the ball.

I'm not defending AB anymore. He doesn't deserve it. He had actual talent and almost never fumbled though. Shame he's just a circus clown now as you describe.

Okay, sure! Forget him leading the team in yards and yards per game and outperforming all the others on the team, we need to focus on how he fumbled once last year and this time with the help of physics luckily keeping the ball in, not to mention pretend that Juju fumbled more in the past when he's only done that twice his NFL career now! Time to move on to a new WR and pretend he's the worst WR on the team despite his stats saying otherwise!

Please, that's ridiculous. You're talking from anger and rage and overreacting, and claiming he's fumbled more than that despite the truth being the opposite is proof of that.

Juju stays. He's the best WR the Steelers have right now, is still performing well, and cutting him over the first fumble of the season because he fumbled once last season is an overreaction.

[Anacybele]

1 minute ago, NoirCore said:

Okay, sure! Forget him leading the team in yards and yards per game and outperforming all the others on the team, we need to focus on how he fumbled once last year and this time with the help of physics luckily keeping the ball in, not to mention pretend that Juju fumbled more in the past when he's only done that twice his NFL career now! Time to move on to a new WR and pretend he's the worst WR on the team despite his stats saying otherwise!

Please, that's ridiculous. You're talking from anger and rage and overreacting, and claiming he's fumbled more than that despite the truth being the opposite is proof of that.

Juju stays. He's the best WR the Steelers have right now, is still performing well, and cutting him over the first fumble of the season because he fumbled once last season is an overreaction.

Um, I'm not lying when I say he's fumbled more than twice. He's only cost us two games so far with those fumbles, but there WERE others. I wouldn't have been afraid of him having the ball otherwise.

But looks like we won't agree here in any case.

[Moblin Major General]

@LifeNot one word

[NoirCore]

35 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

Um, I'm not lying when I say he's fumbled more than twice. He's only cost us two games so far with those fumbles, but there WERE others. I wouldn't have been afraid of him having the ball otherwise.

But looks like we won't agree here in any case.

And the stats also will not agree with you. They say Juju has only 2 fumbles (well, 1, but they haven't updated yet) in 3 years.

Meanwhile, AB fumbled 5 times his first 3 years and Hines fumbled 3 times his first 3, the same two you lament his performance "not being like [them] at all". Yet we should cut our best WR on the team right now? Makes sense!

In fact, you can see for yourself.

Edited October 6, 2019 by NoirCore

[Anacybele]

22 minutes ago, NoirCore said:

And the stats also will not agree with you. They say Juju has only 2 fumbles (well, 1, but they haven't updated yet) in 3 years.

Meanwhile, AB fumbled 5 times his first 3 years and Hines fumbled 3 times his first 3, the same two you lament his performance "not being like [them] at all". Yet we should cut our best WR on the team right now? Makes sense!

In fact, you can see for yourself.

That link says page not found though? Whatever the case, my point about him still not putting up numbers akin to those guys stands. I'm not saying he has to be exactly like them, as it's hard to find talent like that (and AB's level is probably once in a life time honestly), but he could still be putting up better numbers than he is.

On another note, gonna say fuck Earl Thomas for smashing Rudolph. At first glance the hit didn't look like anything huge, but Rudolph was laid on the ground out cold for several minutes and now we've probably lost him for several weeks. I hope Earl Thomas gets fined and suspended for this! Apparently some fans were chanting "Throw him out!" too. Also, another guy had hit Rudolph from behind at the same time. Is this what the Ravens' defense whom I had respect for has become now? Dirty MFers? I certainly hope not, I don't want to hate them like I hate the Bengals. I never liked the Ravens at all, but I at least found the rivalry with them enjoyable.

 

Edited October 6, 2019 by Anacybele

[NoirCore]

16 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

That link says page not found though? Whatever the case, my point about him still not putting up numbers akin to those guys stands. I'm not saying he has to be exactly like them, as it's hard to find talent like that (and AB's level is probably once in a life time honestly), but he could still be putting up better numbers than he is.

Okay, well you can easily look the stats up if that link fails.

But let's check out Juju's stats his first TWO seasons compared to AB's and Hines's first THREE seasons.

Juju had 2,343 yards, 14 TDs and 169 receptions in 30 games.

AB had 2,062 yards, 7 TDs and 151 receptions in 38 games. More games, less results.

Hines Ward had 1,556 yards, 11 TDs and 124 receptions in 48 games. More games, even less results.

Juju has contributed more his first two years than either AB or Hines did in their own first three individually.

[Anacybele]

8 minutes ago, NoirCore said:

Okay, well you can easily look the stats up if that link fails.

But let's check out Juju's stats his first TWO seasons compared to AB's and Hines's first THREE seasons.

Juju had 2,343 yards, 14 TDs and 169 receptions in 30 games.

AB had 2,062 yards, 7 TDs and 151 receptions in 38 games. More games, less results.

Hines Ward had 1,556 yards, 11 TDs and 124 receptions in 48 games. More games, even less results.

Juju has contributed more his first two years than either AB or Hines did in their own first three individually.

Maybe I stand corrected on his overall stats. But to be fair, much of that came when AB was there and drawing more attention from DBs. Now that AB's not there, Juju's production has dwindled quite a bit.

[NoirCore]

36 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

Maybe I stand corrected on his overall stats. But to be fair, much of that came when AB was there and drawing more attention from DBs. Now that AB's not there, Juju's production has dwindled quite a bit.

AB was targeted more than Juju each season, so it's clearly not an issue of attention.

2017, AB was targeted 162 times compared to Juju's 80. They both played 14 games.

2018, AB was targeted 168 times against Juju's 166. Juju played one extra game.

This year, Juju's still on pace to break 1,000 recieving yards with at least 6 TDs or more despite the issue at the QB position.

"Quite a bit" is definitely exaggerating. Maybe he's not getting his 2018 numbers, but considering the QB situation and the fact that he's starting off better than AB and Hines did in terms of yardage, catches, TDs and keeping the ball secure in a smaller amount of years, that just only goes to show he's still more helpful than he is a hindrance just because of two unlucky freak fumbles, the 2nd one being more of an impressive play by the defensive player.

If the Steelers GM operated on your logic, AB and Hines would have been cut, and that's why I can say with confidence that the mere thought of the Steelers cutting their top WR outperforming the other WRs is unfathomable and only fueled by paranoia and anger instead of rational thought. I'm not apologizing for how blunt I say that, either.

Juju stands as an important key in the Steelers' future right now, and paranoia over two unlucky fumbles and unproven accounts of "more fumbles" come nowhere near close as a good reason to even consider cutting him.

[Anacybele]

1 hour ago, NoirCore said:

AB was targeted more than Juju each season, so it's clearly not an issue of attention.

2017, AB was targeted 162 times compared to Juju's 80. They both played 14 games.

2018, AB was targeted 168 times against Juju's 166. Juju played one extra game.

This year, Juju's still on pace to break 1,000 recieving yards with at least 6 TDs or more despite the issue at the QB position.

"Quite a bit" is definitely exaggerating. Maybe he's not getting his 2018 numbers, but considering the QB situation and the fact that he's starting off better than AB and Hines did in terms of yardage, catches, TDs and keeping the ball secure in a smaller amount of years, that just only goes to show he's still more helpful than he is a hindrance just because of two unlucky freak fumbles, the 2nd one being more of an impressive play by the defensive player.

If the Steelers GM operated on your logic, AB and Hines would have been cut, and that's why I can say with confidence that the mere thought of the Steelers cutting their top WR outperforming the other WRs is unfathomable and only fueled by paranoia and anger instead of rational thought. I'm not apologizing for how blunt I say that, either.

Juju stands as an important key in the Steelers' future right now, and paranoia over two unlucky fumbles and unproven accounts of "more fumbles" come nowhere near close as a good reason to even consider cutting him.

I don't think you're being rude, so you don't need to apologize, no. Bluntness isn't the same as being rude.

Maybe it was going too far to say to cut Juju then. Dunno what else to say there. But I'm still going to be scared whenever he's targeted now...

[NoirCore]

1 hour ago, Anacybele said:

I don't think you're being rude, so you don't need to apologize, no. Bluntness isn't the same as being rude.

Maybe it was going too far to say to cut Juju then. Dunno what else to say there. But I'm still going to be scared whenever he's targeted now...

Like I said, AB and Hines Ward had more fumbles in their first 3 seasons, and other names like Lynn Swann (9), Santonio Holmes (11) and Randle El (14) fumbled more in their own 3 years.

Anyone is susceptible to fumbling the ball, no matter the moment and no matter how much they try to hold on.

Also, Patrick Mahomes seems to be limping, possibly continuing the tradition of the Madden Curse.

[Life]

6 hours ago, Hylian Air Force said:

@LifeNot one word

If that forward pass wasn't called back, I would have been pissed to hell.

Man, your D is rough. Tough luck that you went up against the best D in the league.

Weird explanation for that indeed, but you never know. I don't see why Ben would lie about that anyway, a fine of 5k is nothing for someone like him who makes a ton of money.

Ben's willing to lie about raping a woman; you don't think he's capable of lying about who dressed him?

Your worship of that man is creepy.

Edited October 7, 2019 by Life

[Anacybele]

2 hours ago, Life said:

Ben's willing to lie about raping a woman; you don't think he's capable of lying about who dressed him?

Your worship of that man is creepy.

1. I don't worship him and I have zero idea where I've said anything to indicate that I do.

2. Got any proof he lied?

Edited October 7, 2019 by Anacybele

[Moblin Major General]

10 hours ago, Life said:

If that forward pass wasn't called back, I would have been pissed to hell.

Man, your D is rough. Tough luck that you went up against the best D in the league.

It also doesn't help that we missed 4 FGs.

[NoirCore]

12 hours ago, Life said:

Ben's willing to lie about raping a woman; you don't think he's capable of lying about who dressed him?

Your worship of that man is creepy.

I think the more notable thing is that Ben's more so possibly lying about not knowing he had an Apple Watch put on him. You should know what the hell is being put on you if someone else is dressing you, especially if it's a mobile watch.

Given he's done cruddy stuff in the recent past like blame his teammates publicly for failures among other things, I wouldn't put it past him.

9 hours ago, Anacybele said:

Got any proof he lied?

Well, two women accused him, and while the first accusation didn't go anywhere, the second one had supporting statements from her friends who witnessed the incident, and testimony IS evidence. The woman also was worried about being put in the public spotlight for a long amount of time and (if I'm correct) her name possibly getting exposed by proceeding with a lawsuit due to Ben being a popular figure, and considering the heavy amounts of harassment women are shown to get for speaking out WITH evidence (Antonio Brown's two accusers being harassed and demanded to be put in jail (for a civil suit that wouldn't put AB in jail) on Twitter being proof of this, then there's the whole anime VA situation with Vic Mignogna which is even more of a mess of harassment and threats at multiple accusers and their big-name supporters despite overwhelming evidence), there's at least plenty reason to be suspicious of the man. And if he did do it, keeping it hidden is not doing him any favors for when the beans spill.

Edited October 7, 2019 by NoirCore

[Anacybele]

9 minutes ago, NoirCore said:

Given he's done cruddy stuff in the recent past like blame his teammates publicly for failures among other things, I wouldn't put it past him.

He's not allowed to criticize teammates for mistakes? Why? He's not the only one that can make them, you know. And he is a team leader, so it's part of his job to help his teammates stay in line.

9 minutes ago, NoirCore said:

Well, two women accused him, and while the first accusation didn't go anywhere, the second one had supporting statements from her friends who witnessed the incident, and testimony IS evidence. The woman also was worried about being put in the public spotlight for a long amount of time and (if I'm correct) her name possibly getting exposed by proceeding with a lawsuit due to Ben being a popular figure, and considering the heavy amounts of harassment women are shown to get for speaking out WITH evidence (Antonio Brown's two accusers being harassed and demanded to be put in jail (for a civil suit that wouldn't put AB in jail) on Twitter being proof of this, then there's the whole anime VA situation with Vic Mignogna which is even more of a mess of harassment and threats at multiple accusers and their big-name supporters despite overwhelming evidence), there's at least plenty reason to be suspicious of the man. And if he did do it, keeping it hidden is not doing him any favors for when the beans spill.

She could've easily asked her friends to lie to defend her since they're her friends. Testimony alone, especially from someone with reason to lie, is not proof at all which is likely why Ben was never charged. Real evidence would've been found in a rape kit or at the scene and nothing was there.

I'm not going to defend Ben if he really did commit this crime, but I also do not accuse someone without proof and I have no proof he did anything. What happened to innocent until proven guilty?

Edited October 7, 2019 by Anacybele

[NoirCore]

1 hour ago, Anacybele said:

He's not allowed to criticize teammates for mistakes? Why? He's not the only one that can make them, you know. And he is a team leader, so it's part of his job to help his teammates stay in line.

She could've easily asked her friends to lie to defend her since they're her friends. Testimony alone, especially from someone with reason to lie, is not proof at all which is likely why Ben was never charged. Real evidence would've been found in a rape kit or at the scene and nothing was there.

I'm not going to defend Ben if he really did commit this crime, but I also do not accuse someone without proof and I have no proof he did anything. What happened to innocent until proven guilty?

1) Publicly is the key word, and Kevin Colbert enabled that. He embarassed his teammates publicly with criticisms, stuff that should have been kept internal.

2) Roethlisberger is not in a criminal trial, so the classic "innocent until proven guilty" excuse people also made for AB being sued in civil court to harass his accusers doesn't apply.

And what is her motive for her and her friends to lie yet not pursue a lawsuit out of fear of being harassed by Ben's fans? Why did this happen twice in a few years? Why was the woman physically hurt? Was the DNA really unidentifiable because there was "not enough"?

I won't jump to the conclusion that it's definitive, but "innocent until proven guilty" is a weak excuse to shoot down anger against him.

[Anacybele]

11 minutes ago, NoirCore said:

1) Publicly is the key word, and Kevin Colbert enabled that. He embarassed his teammates publicly with criticisms, stuff that should have been kept internal.

2) Roethlisberger is not in a criminal trial, so the classic "innocent until proven guilty" excuse people also made for AB being sued in civil court to harass his accusers doesn't apply.

And what is her motive for her and her friends to lie yet not pursue a lawsuit out of fear of being harassed by Ben's fans? Why did this happen twice in a few years? Why was the woman physically hurt? Was the DNA really unidentifiable because there was "not enough"?

I won't jump to the conclusion that it's definitive, but "innocent until proven guilty" is a weak excuse to shoot down anger against him.

If you watched as many crime shows as I have, you'd be surprised at the lengths some people are willing to go to make people believe a lie. And I'm not talking about fake crime shows either, I've watched a few real ones as well. I like some of them for the mystery aspect, really. I love a good mystery.

But anyway, motive there is simple: to protect a friend. And some people will go to crazy lengths to protect someone too, even if that someone doesn't deserve it. Still, fair enough, I suppose.

So on the subject of Mason Rudolph's injury again.

https://brobible.com/sports/article/steelers-qb-mason-rudolph-medical-cart-nfl/?fbclid=IwAR0bc9sdFsKmyz5olE3WtQ7YCIvbiqSkNppbVA0jLmefX4EWFvOgUeKHt_I

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000001063295/article/earl-thomas-not-expected-to-be-suspended-for-hit

Absolutely bullshit, both of these. You'd think the NFL could make sure they have working medical carts at all times and their excuse of "Rudolph didn't need one" is more bullshit. He clearly was not in his right mind and very wobbly after that hit, he should've been carried on a stretcher at the very least! Even if he said he wanted to walk, would you really listen to the guy after he just got knocked out cold for several minutes?

Earl Thomas can claim he meant no harm all he wants, he was still fucking reckless and had no business hitting Rudolph that hard. He should be suspended at least one game. Can't believe the NFL still can't be consistent enough with their punishment decisions.

Good news is though, Rudolph's out of the hospital and at home. But it worries me that he had to be there at all, I don't remember ever hearing about someone having to go to the hospital after a concussion. I could just not have seen those particular situations though. And I also worry about how this is going to affect his playing in the future. Tommy Maddox was never the same after he got hit so hard and wasn't playing well anymore. Luke Kuechly from the Panthers isn't playing as well as he used to either after he got hit in the noggin several times.

Edited October 7, 2019 by Anacybele

[De Geso]

17 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

Earl Thomas can claim he meant no harm all he wants, he was still fucking reckless and had no business hitting Rudolph that hard. He should be suspended at least one game. Can't believe the NFL still can't be consistent enough with their punishment decisions. 

The modern NFL is candy-assed enough as it is. Are we going to start suspending and ejecting players every time they make a big hit against somebody and the latter is hurt? Eventually we will get to a point where the players just play catch up-and-down the field all game because the defense is too afraid to actually tackle the ball carrier with any degree of force at all.

[Anacybele]

10 minutes ago, De Geso said:

The modern NFL is candy-assed enough as it is. Are we going to start suspending and ejecting players every time they make a big hit against somebody and the latter is hurt? Eventually we will get to a point where the players just play catch up-and-down the field all game because the defense is too afraid to actually tackle the ball carrier with any degree of force at all.

That's kind of exaggerating here, don't you think? I'm not saying any hit that winds up injuring a player should be punishable. Just those that are reckless and really serious like this one. And those don't happen THAT much.

Unless Vontaze Burfict is involved, I guess. But he's been canned for the season.

Edited October 7, 2019 by Anacybele

[De Geso]

16 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

That's kind of exaggerating here, don't you think? I'm not saying any hit that winds up injuring a player should be punishable. Just those that are reckless and really serious like this one. And those don't happen THAT much.

Unless Vontaze Burfict is involved, I guess. But he's been canned for the season.

Would you think of this one as "reckless and really serious" if it happened to another player? Why is this hit in particular so egregious?

I'm not trying to antagonize you specifically - it's the position that injuring players should be a punishable offense to the degree that you've suggested.

Edited October 7, 2019 by De Geso

[Anacybele]

7 minutes ago, De Geso said:

Would you think of this one as "reckless and really serious" if it happened to another player? Why is this hit in particular so egregious?

I'm not trying to antagonize you specifically - it's the position that injuring players should be a punishable offense to the degree that you've suggested.

Yeah, I would. For example, when Joe Flacco got his helmet knocked off from a similar kind of hit as he was sliding last year. Kiko Alonso got fined and suspended for it, I believe. And Flacco remained conscious! Mason Rudolph did not here. But Alonso deserved the punishment he got, that hit was just as reckless and potentially serious.