Cyril's "Bad Start" -- Not That Bad?

[Technoweirdo]

So, I just recently made it to Ch. 5 of my Lions playthrough.
As part of that playthrough, I'm trying to get all the supports which means recruiting everyone. (NG+ made it very easy to recruit all the Deer, heheh)
Cyril, of course, would have to be recruited too, and Ch. 5 is the earliest he can be recruited.
Didn't think Cyril was all that bad even in my Deer playthrough where I recruited him somewhat late.
Here though, frankly, he's looking even better.

First surprise to me: He starts with a C-and-a-half in Bows -- 80 points away from C+.
All he'd need is 32 wexp in one tutoring session. The other 48 can come from weekly studies if he focuses solely on Bows.
This is doable with one Perfect even without statues.
Can also wait one week if the missing wexp from that one week really bothers you.

C+ is very special to him because it unlocks Point-Blank Volley - a Brave-like Combat Art that doesn't require a Brave weapon.
Other units that learn Brave-likes (Ferdinand, Sylvain, Leonie, Seteth) learn theirs at A -- 860 points away from C+. No way you're getting there by Ch. 5.
It's an absurd attack option that lets him hit well above his weight class using weapons people above his weight class wouldn't use.
Can also play lame when necessary, of course.

Second surprise: His stats could be a lot worse for a 'Villager'.

Spoiler

Doesn't look that bad, honestly. Heck, it's actually surprisingly close to the other de facto archers of the three houses.
Factoring Fighter's growths for 4 levels and hoping I didn't botch the calcs...

Bernie 28.2 HP | 11 Str | 6.6 Mag | 11.4 Dex | 11 Spd | 7 Lck | 5.6 Def | 4.2 Res | 9 Cha
Ashe 26.2 HP | 11 Str | 7 Mag | 12.4 Dex | 13 Spd | 9.2 Lck | 6.6 Def | 8.6 Res | 7.2 Cha
Ignatz 28.2 HP | 11 Str | 7.4 Mag | 11 Dex | 12 Spd | 12.4 Lck | 6 Def | 8.6 Res | 6.2 Cha

-1 Str compared to all three, -2 Spd compared to Ashe, maybe being one or two levels below them because they can be used from Ch. 1...
Supports, maybe 2 more Str from Fighter mastery (never got that on my NG playthrough >.>), a lack of a "real" personal ability (though I don't think anyone thinks much of Ashe's and Ignatz's)...
All that for one of the game's strongest Combat Arts, better growths, and class freedom.

Wouldn't use him for a low-turn-count run where you'd want the best start possible for pegasi / cavalry as early as possible,
But for a more general playthrough? Maybe Lunatic where enemies might be faster and bulkier? Kid doesn't look half-bad.

[Wolfen09]

I honestly got him away from bows and ran him toward wyvern Lord, he's so over powered for me I have to bench him from time to time.

[Tamanoir]

2 hours ago, Wolfen09 said:

I honestly got him away from bows and ran him toward wyvern Lord, he's so over powered for me I have to bench him from time to time.

Wyvern Lord is overpowered in general.

He has easy access to both of the best classes in the game, so if you use him, he won't be truly bad. His Speed and Dex will always be pretty good as well.

[Humanoid]

Quick comparison of my current Wyvern Riders or those eligible or near-eligible for certification, since Cyril just gained eligibility for it. Reckon it places him either 4th or 5th best unit of those listed, and since I have 5 flying battalions, it means he does have a place in my main team. Cyril is slightly better-placed than the raw numbers indicate because he's the only one who's learned Death Blow.

(Asterisk indicates stat is boosted by a skill)

Name	Level	HP	Str	Mag	Dex	Spd	Lck	Def	Res	Cha
Claude	24	36	27*	11	22	21	16	16	10	24
Raphael	24	53*	26*	8	14	18	14	18	8	15
Hilda	22	44	24*	8	14	23	14	20	8	24
Petra	24	41	22	8	24	31	15	15	8	16
Ashe	21	33	21	10	22	22	16	14	13	12
Cyril	21	39	21	10	16	24	15	14	8	11
Ingrid	23	40	21	12	18	30	15	14	21	21

Edited August 23, 2019 by Humanoid

[XeKr]

Cyril is pretty solid because all fliers are good but bases are still questionable. Look at Catherine/Shamir who can be recruited lvl 9 or 11 with minimum personal 17 str, 14 spd, 12 def, (that’s 19 str, 18 spd, 13 def on the initial stat screen for Catherine compared to Cyril’s 10/11/7) A weapon rank and they’re not even the best characters in the game. Sylvain can be crossrecruited at lvl 3 with 10 str and 10 spd, and some other autolevel'd students also seem to outpace their averages. Cyril also lacks the growths of other FE villagers, so while his bases are higher due to autolevel, he’s really just another unit/student (and there’s tons of flier options).  

Edited August 23, 2019 by XeKr

[Kiran_]

5 hours ago, Wolfen09 said:

I honestly got him away from bows and ran him toward wyvern Lord, he's so over powered for me I have to bench him from time to time.

Why do that? I made him a Wyvern Lord with Bows and honestly he kills everything. Also his Speed in my BL playthrough was insane. Like way higher than anyone, he doubled the SwordMasters/etc it was crazy. 

I'm not using him in my GD playthrough because I already have too many characters, but I'll bring him back again later. But yeah, I got really blessed with Cyril, because I never got a level-up that was less than 3 stats. And usually it was around 5-6. It was actually insane, he reached Byleth/Dimitri level tier by the end. Like he was in my front-line team doing damage against the final boss in the BL route. 

[Technoweirdo]

12 minutes ago, XeKr said:

Cyril is pretty solid because all fliers are good but bases are still questionable. Look at Catherine/Shamir who can be recruited lvl 9 or 11 with minimum personal 17 str, 14 spd, 12 def, (that’s 19 str, 18 spd, 13 def on the initial stat screen for Catherine compared to Cyril’s 10/11/7) A weapon rank and they’re not even the best characters in the game. Sylvain can be crossrecruited at lvl 3 with 10 str and 10 spd, and some other autolevel'd students also seem to outpace their averages. Cyril also lacks the growths of other FE villagers, so while his bases are higher due to autolevel, he’s really just another unit/student (and there’s tons of flier options).  

While I haven't looked at every student's averages -- wouldn't normally think of comparing to Sylvain because of his Bow weakness --
Not sure I'd call Cyril's bases questionable, at least in the context of students. (Catherine cheats by having Swordmaster bases at Lv. 9)
Curious how students grow through auto-levelling to beat their averages though.
...Besides Sylvain. I can almost guess why in his case. lol

[XeKr]

4 hours ago, Technoweirdo said:

While I haven't looked at every student's averages -- wouldn't normally think of comparing to Sylvain because of his Bow weakness --
Not sure I'd call Cyril's bases questionable, at least in the context of students. (Catherine cheats by having Swordmaster bases at Lv. 9)
Curious how students grow through auto-levelling to beat their averages though.
...Besides Sylvain. I can almost guess why in his case. lol

I only brought up Sylvain because he’s a free crossrecruit and one of the best wyvern candidates because that +1 str +2 spd over his normal bases actually helps a nice bit in terms of certain early kills. This allows him to snowball earlier and more than many other units. 

You’re very right that Cyril Bow rank gives a nice niche, perhaps I dismissed that too much. Shamir seems to be the obvious choice for a Bow flier, given her bases and very easy Pegasus access, but there aren’t too many others. Cyril seems pretty comparable to Ashe, though quite notably it seems most don’t think Ashe is very good? There are some others like BL Felix (crossrecruit levels sword/brawl which is not great) that also make excellent Bow users. Felix matches Cyril lvl 9 str at lvl 1, and has 15% more growth and has his major crest. He’s also quite fast. That said, Cyril does fly which is a nice advantage and Point-Blank is good (though he’s fast enough that he may be doubling anyways). Another factor though is Cyril only flies in advanced tier, and a lot of the routs where the Bow advantage is best are earlier in the game. By the skip (and earlier in BL iirc) you can use stuff like Retribution to let anyone counterattack all ranges. 

To my knowledge, no one has figured out exactly how cross-recruit works. It does seem to be consistent, for example, the speedrun gets Sylvain as the dancer who seems to always have 14 charm. And there’s been some anecdotal reports of unit doing better than average, such as that Sylvain example and I think Petra/Ingrid. Something to figure out for sure. 

Edited August 23, 2019 by XeKr

[Wolfen09]

On 8/23/2019 at 12:42 PM, Kiran_ said:

Why do that? I made him a Wyvern Lord with Bows and honestly he kills everything. Also his Speed in my BL playthrough was insane. Like way higher than anyone, he doubled the SwordMasters/etc it was crazy. 

I'm not using him in my GD playthrough because I already have too many characters, but I'll bring him back again later. But yeah, I got really blessed with Cyril, because I never got a level-up that was less than 3 stats. And usually it was around 5-6. It was actually insane, he reached Byleth/Dimitri level tier by the end. Like he was in my front-line team doing damage against the final boss in the BL route. 

Honestly I have a half assed rule set, I don't use weapons that those classes in other games can't use, meaning wyvern Lord is lances and axes though the old gba games gave them swords and lances.  The only real exception is paladin in which I do bow kinght style on some with swords and bows with just schooling in lances to get bow knight cert.

[iavasechui]

I am just enjoying breaking weapon restrictions XD my Ingrid is rocking a killer bow on her Pegasus and she’s good with swords and lances 🙂

[Anathaco]

Something else to add in regards to skill levels: He starts with a C+ in axes, meaning he can take the Brigand exam pretty much straight away and get Death Blow (once mastered, of course) All he needs is one level (though I seem to recall mine starting at level 10 for some reason, despite recruiting him in time for chapter 5)

That said, I’m currently using him as a War Master, and he’s honestly hilarious. Training flying on the side to get him Alert Stance+, but even with the normal version he still dodges everything. Not to mention the crits. There are quite a lot of those.