Can we talk about how terrible Those Who Slither in the Dark are as villains? (Spoilers Obviously)

[Killer Kronya]

We meet four Slithers throughout the story, and not a single one of them is a good villain.

 

Solon-Token Gharnef Rip-Off. Shows up, does a thing, and dies immediately after. Thrilling

 

Kronya-Token Fanservice Chick As much as I love her design, I must admit that this character is wasted potential. She shows up, KILLS YOUR DAD, and than dies immediately after. If you're going to have a villain do that, they should be a serious enemy that the protagonist and player grow to hate, not a glorified mini-boss who is killed off immediately.

 

Cornelia-Token Fanservice Chick 2.0 since Kronya died prematurely. She's just introduced through exposition halfway through the game. In one route she's partially responsible for the terrible state the protagonist is in, when he reclaims his kingdom from her it's a major turning point, in one route she's just another glorified grunt that you kill, and in the other two she's only mentioned. Ok in one route I guess, nothing in the others.

 

Thales-Mr Evil Warlock Behind it all.   Y'know, for the game'a true villain, he's hardly present, and hardly even memorable. He just makes a few scattered appearances until he's resolved off-screen in one route, sorta and vaguely resolved by you killing his human form in one route, and only actually fought in two routes. We learn absolutely nothing about him other than he wants revenge, which is a common goal among everyone in his group. We also have no reason to care about him, since he doesn't really do anything. Honestly he should've been the one to kill Jeralt since the player would have a reason to care about him.

 

Not a single one of these four is an interesting character in the slightest. Like, they look cool I guess(aside from Cornelia)? The existence of the slither gang brings up so many questions that go unanswered, and they're responsible for the existence of most of the game's plot holes. Do they really add anything? As they are right now I would've preferred the game not have them.

[Ottservia]

While I’ll agree that TWSITD are bad and underdeveloped villains, I’d argue a villain doesn’t need to be an interesting character to be considered good. To say that would be to deny the countless number of great pure evil villains there are in stories. That said, TWSITD can’t even do that right because those types of villains really only work because of their sheer presence and intimidation factor neither of which TWSITD have. They just kinda appear and are killed off just as soon as they arrive meaning really don’t get to understand who they are and what their goals are. 

I mean Grima is similar in that regard but Grima has that intimidation factor and just oozes menacing charm. Like the biggest problem with TWSTD is that they lack any kind of real presence within the narrative so the impact they have on it is negligible but at the same time not. Ugh it’s weird I’ll tell you.

[Fabulously Olivier]

They really don't add anything of value. The plot of the game would actually work better if Rhea were the one who ordered the experiments on Edelgard (in an attempt to create potential hosts for Sothis through the Crest of Flames). Edelgard's motivation would make more sense, Rhea would make a more interesting and sympathetic villain, and Jeralt wouldn't have died a pathetic death to Peri-bot 2.0 - now with underboob.

Edited August 23, 2019 by Etheus

[Slumber]

14 minutes ago, Ottservia said:

Grima just oozes menacing charm.

I wish you'd stop saying this. Grima really only has charm from FEH.

Within Awakening, Grima really just says shit Validar would say, only Grima actually has power to back up his overt taunts and threats. His screen time as an actual character(And not a force of nature) is also incredibly brief.

Anyway... yes, TWSITD are lame. They feel like an afterthought, like IS felt that they needed an external force to get Edelgard on her path, and an obvious villain group for part 1.

Edited August 23, 2019 by Slumber

[Hyper L]

Now slow down. Chances are we're gonna get some extra insight/backstory for those characters as DLC.

What is the Agarthan race? Why do they look like undead? Why does their ancient technology look so modern?

There's no way they're gonna leave those things unanswered forever. The DLC is comming trust me.

[Ottservia]

5 minutes ago, Slumber said:

I wish you'd stop saying this. Grima really only has charm from FEH.

Within Awakening, Grima really just says shit Validar would say, only Grima actually has power to back up his overt taunts and threats.

I mean that’s just my opinion on Grima. Charm is a subjective thing after all so I’m not gonna argue it. I think Grima is hella charming in awakening cause I love a lot of the smug asshole kinda dialogue he has when interacting with Robin specifically. His dialogue is actually a lot more charming and fun than Validar’s if you ask me. Still if you got a problem with me expressing my love for Grima then I’m sorry man I just find Grima to be really cool. That’s just my opinion.

Edited August 23, 2019 by Ottservia

[Flere210]

The concept behind them is very interesting, being basically the conspiracy theories Aliens. There is so much that could have been done whit them, but they did nothing. They have all this technology and all they did is a few mecha when they could just destroy your army whit a squad of riflemen(i refuse to believe that they can have ICBM but somehow assault rifles are beyond their capabilities ). They have this replacing power and no Slither ever try to murder you or a lord, and Kronya is so stupid to kill Jeralt in front of you, wich prevent them from replacing him(a replica of jeralt would be in an optimal position to assassinate Rhea, much more than Thomas or Monica).They make Anankos looks intelligent by comparisson. 

I think they have a place in the world, and their lore in the ancient past is important, but holy hell, i rarely seen so much wasted potential.

Edited August 23, 2019 by Flere210

[CyberNinja]

Just now, Hyper L said:

Now slow down. Chances are we're gonna get some extra insight/backstory for those characters as DLC.

What is the Agarthan race? Why do they look like undead? Why does their ancient technology look so modern?

1. Subterranean humans

2. The neet life is harsh 

3. Stolen dragon-tech

Fodlan is a post MAD event world.

[Slumber]

Just now, Ottservia said:

I mean that’s just my opinion on Grima. Charm is a subjective after all so I’m not gonna argue it. I think Grima is hella charming in awakening cause I love a lot of the smug asshole kinda dialogue he has when interacting with Robin specifically. His dialogue is actually a lot more charming and fun than Validar’s if you ask me. Still if you got a problem with expressing my love for Grima then I’m sorry man I just find Grima to be really cool. That’s just my opinion.

I know it's just your opinion. It's fine to like Grima, and I've just been seeing you say it a lot recently when I really don't remember anyone(You included) ever saying Grima was "charming" without referring to FEH.

I just have some sort of gut reaction that you're attributing things from FEH Grima to Awakening Grima, which I'm aware may not be the case.

[CyberNinja]

2 minutes ago, Slumber said:

I know it's just your opinion. It's fine to like Grima, and I've just been seeing you say it a lot recently when I really don't remember anyone(You included) ever saying Grima was "charming" without referring to FEH.

I just have some sort of gut reaction that you're attributing things from FEH Grima to Awakening Grima, which I'm aware may not be the case.

Did Grima even have much dialogue in awakening? 

[Slumber]

Just now, CyberNinja said:

Did Grima even have much dialogue in awakening? 

No. The only scenes I recall are when Grima shows up when Chrom and Robin come to ask Plegia for ships, and the very end of the game.

[Crysta]

They should just do away with the concept of an evil cult behind the scenes and focus on human villains. It's not like politics isn't evil enough.

[Florete]

I agree, but do we really need to talk about it? I don't think there's any debate or disagreement here.

[Slumber]

2 minutes ago, Crysta said:

They should just do away with the concept of an evil cult behind the scenes and focus on human villains. It's not like politics isn't evil enough.

I agree with this, especially if they're going to continue to not develop the evil cult. Even as much as I like Jugdral, 90% of the interesting shit about the Lopto Sect is supplemental material. In the games they're just a bunch of wrinkly old men who basically worship Satan and murder children.

It's like IS doesn't know when to stop in regards to perfectly acceptable normal human villains.

Edited August 23, 2019 by Slumber

[Ottservia]

3 minutes ago, Slumber said:

I know it's just your opinion. It's fine to like Grima, and I've just been seeing you say it a lot recently when I really don't remember anyone(You included) ever saying Grima was "charming" without referring to FEH.

I just have some sort of gut reaction that you're attributing things from FEH Grima to Awakening Grima, which I'm aware may not be the case.

I mean that’s mostly because I hadn’t really paid attention to his dialogue in awakening before that plus I wasn’t as active on the forums back then. I’ve been saying it a lot recently because well I just kinda miss it. I dunno I like villains like that(probably one of the reasons I like Grima so much is because the way he speaks reminds me so much of Madara but *shrug*)

3 minutes ago, CyberNinja said:

Did Grima even have much dialogue in awakening? 

Not really no but I love a lot of the dialogue he does have like when Robin asks who he is and then just kinda responds with 

“Gods I can be so daft sometimes”

Shit like that amuses me greatly and just puts a smile on my face.

[Etrurian emperor]

Yes those that slither in the dark really are quite terrible. They have a very unfortunate combination of being both incredibly generic and possessing incredibly little screentime. They are likely the weakest aspect of Three Houses plot. 

15 minutes ago, Slumber said:

I wish you'd stop saying this. Grima really only has charm from FEH.

Within Awakening, Grima really just says shit Validar would say, only Grima actually has power to back up his overt taunts and threats. His screen time as an actual character(And not a force of nature) is also incredibly brief.

Awakening Grima does have a little bit of wit if I recall. If I remember correctly he made a fairly amusing remark about killing all of Robin's friends before the final battle. He's also quite smug. 

[Julian Solo]

4 minutes ago, CyberNinja said:

Did Grima even have much dialogue in awakening? 

He had some in the dlc where it looked like Robin was fightning back against him.  And some lines where he was trolling near the end of Awakening.. 

[CyberNinja]

1 minute ago, Florete said:

I agree, but do we really need to talk about it? I don't think there's any debate or disagreement here.

One could argue they don't need to be, since Edelgard is the real antagonist of the story. Arguably there should be more interaction with her outside her own rout (which should have been hidden or harder to get) to explain more the relationship between the two (since she obviously cares regardless of route you choose which is odd since the very best she's got is "your strong")

[Killer Kronya]

The evil cult is something that I definitely feel is only in this game because it's in all the other games. This game definitely does a better job at letting Edelgard stand on her own feet than most other games do with their villain that's just being manipulated by the cult, which thankfully allows this game to have a good villain DESPITE the slithers. I do hope that the next game does without a cult.

[Seazas]

33 minutes ago, Etheus said:

They really don't add anything of value. The plot of the game would actually work better if Rhea were the one who ordered the experiments on Edelgard (in an attempt to create potential hosts for Sothis through the Crest of Flames). Edelgard's motivation would make more sense, Rhea would make a more interesting and sympathetic villain, and Jeralt wouldn't have died a pathetic death to Peri-bot 2.0 - now with underboob.

Fuck that shit. Rhea performing experiments on children would be terrible, she's only a villain because of Edelgard being heavily misguided. 

[Hyper L]

Just now, CyberNinja said:

1. Subterranean humans

2. The neet life is harsh 

3. Stolen dragon-tech

Fodlan is a post MAD event world.

1. What are they, an ant species? We know WHY they went underground but that's not directly correlated with them refering to themselves as Agarthans. Surely they called themselves that BEFORE going underground, right?

2. Being underground could explain their pale white skin but doesn't explain some of the other disturbing features some of them have i.e. Thales pupiless eyes or Solon's 5Head.

3. If it's dragon-tech then why doesn't Rhea bring it back to the world? Also Rhea refers to some of that technology (magic missle) as evil so is less likely it has to do with their kind.

[CyberNinja]

Just now, Seazas said:

Fuck that shit. Rhea performing experiments on children would be terrible, she's only a villain because of Edelgard being heavily misguided. 

It would be bad yes, but doing so to save the world (her perspective) would make her misguided rather than evil and yet strengthen Edelgards own motivations playing into gray and gray morality that the rest of the story has.

[Etrurian emperor]

3 minutes ago, CyberNinja said:

One could argue they don't need to be, since Edelgard is the real antagonist of the story. Arguably there should be more interaction with her outside her own rout (which should have been hidden or harder to get) to explain more the relationship between the two (since she obviously cares regardless of route you choose which is odd since the very best she's got is "your strong")

I suspect that's the main reason Those that Slither are so pathetic. The main drama is supposed to come from Edelgard fighting the other lords and their houses getting dragged in the struggle so IS didn't see the need to put much effort in Those that Slither. That's kind of a flawed approach though. The Fates team likely didn't put any effort into team Garon for the exact same reason and I can't say the Three Houses villains are much better than the incredibly low bar that's team Garon. 

[Seazas]

Just now, CyberNinja said:

It would be bad yes, but doing so to save the world (her perspective) would make her misguided rather than evil and yet strengthen Edelgards own motivations playing into gray and gray morality that the rest of the story has.

It's gray enough. Rhea is pretty gray and flawed enough. Killing children would lean toward black for Rhea. The Slithers have motivation but that doesn't excuse their actions, same would apply to Rhea. 

Rhea shouldn't be stuck with the evil actions and experiments of the Slithers just because you guys want a scapegoat to make Edelgard look even better.

[Strullemia]

It would have been better if they were the ones that got exterminated by the church because they didn't care about the goddess anymore. At least then I could have been somewhat sympathetic to them.

Edited August 23, 2019 by Hekselka