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Can we talk about how terrible Those Who Slither in the Dark are as villains? (Spoilers Obviously)


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On another note, Kronya's a terrible annoying character. It's a blessing that she wasn't given spotlight throughout the entire game. She did her role and got used as the intentional tool she was. Hell, Jeralt's death was never intended, it was just Kronya acting out of plan and killing Jeralt herself for getting in the way.

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imo if the Flame Emperor showed up to kill Jeralt and you had to fight him in that chapter, that would've been much more meaningful for both Byleth and Edelgard, but proooobably if that were the case much less people would've been ok to side with her, kinda mining her route's meaning

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2 minutes ago, Yexin said:

imo if the Flame Emperor showed up to kill Jeralt and you had to fight him in that chapter, that would've been much more meaningful for both Byleth and Edelgard, but proooobably if that were the case much less people would've been ok to side with her, kinda mining her route's meaning

That would be lame. "Oh boy another dad lost to the BIG BAD" At least Jeralt's death was never meant to happen: Edelgard and Thales' squad never intended that. It was just Kronya being a clown and getting him while his back was turned.

Edited by Seazas
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10 minutes ago, Yexin said:

imo if the Flame Emperor showed up to kill Jeralt and you had to fight him in that chapter, that would've been much more meaningful for both Byleth and Edelgard, but proooobably if that were the case much less people would've been ok to side with her, kinda mining her route's meaning

That doesn't go in line with Edelgard's character. Even as the Flame Emperor, she wouldn't kill anyone that didn't pose a potential threat to her dream.

Edited by Hyper L
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If Edelgard killed Jeralt than it would be much harder to make her grey.

 

Really since they had no intention of making him grey, and he does literally nothing at the moment, Thales should've been the one to kill him.

Edited by Killer Kronya
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1 minute ago, Seazas said:

That would be lame. "Oh boy another dad lost to the BIG BAD" At least Jeralt's death was never meant to happen: Edelgard and Thales' squad never intended that. It was just Kronya being a clown and getting him while his back was turned.

I’m actually gonna agree with Yexin here. Would it be Cliche? Probably, but that’s cause it works. 

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42 minutes ago, Etheus said:

They really don't add anything of value. The plot of the game would actually work better if Rhea were the one who ordered the experiments on Edelgard (in an attempt to create potential hosts for Sothis through the Crest of Flames). Edelgard's motivation would make more sense, Rhea would make a more interesting and sympathetic villain, and Jeralt wouldn't have died a pathetic death to Peri-bot 2.0 - now with underboob.

That could actually potentially remove Byleth's relevance from the plot(which could be beneficial for the plot). If Rhea did the experiments on Edelgard and her siblings that would allow the whole Progenitor God storyline to play out with Edelgard; allowing her eventual betrayal to hit Rhea harder; and allow history to sort of repeat itself with the bearer of the Crest Stone of Sothis wanting to put an end to the Children of the Goddess(first with Nemesis; then with Edelgard).

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About Thales. The pre-skip does a good job hyping him. 

First he manage to prevent you from using the divine pulse to save Jeralt, then he almost kill you. The game make a good job in making him feel like a threat  an setting up a confrontation. But he never take central stage and this setup go to waste.

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6 minutes ago, Hyper L said:

1. What are they, an ant species? We know WHY they went underground but that's not directly correlated with them refering to themselves as Agarthans. Surely they called themselves that BEFORE going underground, right?

2. Being underground could explain their pale white skin but doesn't explain some of the other disturbing features some of them have i.e. Thales pupiless eyes or Solon's 5Head.

3. If it's dragon-tech then why doesn't Rhea bring it back to the world? Also Rhea refers to some of that technology (magic missle) as evil so is less likely it has to do with their kind.

1. It could be that all humans of the old society were agarthans, part of this could lead into their perception of being both saviors and the only true humans, essentially fire emblem enclave.

2. Actually underground would explain pupiless eyes as they are implied to be living in a near lightless environment and their ravaged bodies is explained by the toxic environment they live in created by poor ventilation and their technology having lots of waste. They also overuse and abuse dark magic which fire emblem consistently has as mutagenic or adverse to sanity. In sort they're blind or near blind toxic ravage subterranean mutant humans.

3. Simply dragontech and magic that greedy humans repurposed for their own ends creating dark and evil weapons. Rhea would likely prefer to keep such events from happening again and thus work to limit tech growth by humanity. Thus while fodlan might have been the most tech advanced they are now behind and thus reliant on artifacts and crests when at war with outsiders.

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6 minutes ago, Ottservia said:

I’m actually gonna agree with Yexin here. Would it be Cliche? Probably, but that’s cause it works. 

I'm not. Jeralt got a lot of criticism for being Greil 2.0 now here we are. Him getting complaints because he doesn't go out exactly like Greil. lol no thanks.

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4 minutes ago, Seazas said:

That would be lame. "Oh boy another dad lost to the BIG BAD" At least Jeralt's death was never meant to happen: Edelgard and Thales' squad never intended that. It was just Kronya being a clown and getting him while his back is turned.

can't say i agree, but hey if a character being like "lmao derp imma kill your father because why the hell not" is fine by you, i'm ok with that

3 minutes ago, Hyper L said:

That doesn't go in line With Edelgard's characters. Even as the Flame Emperor, she wouldn't kill anyone that didn't pose a potential threat to her dream.

as much as jeralt doesn't trust rhea, he seems quite a reasonable man

i doubt tHe StRoNgEsT mAn In FóDlAn would've stayed quiet with edelgard breaking out a continental war

5 minutes ago, Killer Kronya said:

If Edelgard killed Jeralt than it would be much harder to make her grey.

 

Really since they had no intention of making him grey, and he does literally nothing at the moment, Thales should've been the one to kill him.

yeah that's the problem i expressed myself, that would've been too much even for edelgard, but only because killing the avatar's father would've been a direct attack to the player

not that everything else she does is less cruel, for example acting defenseless with a brigand she herself made a contract with in order to kill both claude and dimitri

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2 minutes ago, Yexin said:

can't say i agree, but hey if a character being like "lmao derp imma kill your father because why the hell not" is fine by you, i'm ok with that

as much as jeralt doesn't trust rhea, he seems quite a reasonable man

i doubt tHe StRoNgEsT mAn In FóDlAn would've stayed quiet with edelgard breaking out a continental war

yeah that's the problem i expressed myself, that would've been too much even for edelgard, but only because killing the avatar's father would've been a direct attack to the player

not that everything else she does is less cruel, for example acting defenseless with a brigand she herself made a contract with in order to kill both claude and dimitri

It's different for a change. Hell, Kronya doesn't do it because "why the hell not" it's because he interfered and the tragic part is that no one intended for his death and it was just Kronya being terrible. That attempt to try to make it worse than what it actually is did not work for you.

Edited by Seazas
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8 minutes ago, Killer Kronya said:

If Edelgard killed Jeralt than it would be much harder to make her grey.

actually if anything it would make her more gray. Morality in it of itself is gray and mostly subjective. Fictional morality is special in the sense that it is inherently black and white cause the morality in fiction is based on the morals and beliefs of the culture or society it was born from. I mean yeah it would've made us less likely to root for her and join her side based on or own moral values but that's what Moral gray in stories means. It's meant to shatter our pre-conceived black and white notions of what is truly right or wrong and bring to light how truly gray the world really is.

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1 minute ago, Yexin said:

can't say i agree, but hey if a character being like "lmao derp imma kill your father because why the hell not" is fine by you, i'm ok with that

as much as jeralt doesn't trust rhea, he seems quite a reasonable man

i doubt tHe StRoNgEsT mAn In FóDlAn would've stayed quiet with edelgard breaking out a continental war

yeah that's the problem i expressed myself, that would've been too much even for edelgard, but only because killing the avatar's father would've been a direct attack to the player

not that everything else she does is less cruel, for example acting defenseless with a brigand she herself made a contract with in order to kill both claude and dimitri

Problem for Edelgard killing Byleth dad is her specific motivation not to make an enemy of Byleth until she feels it's inevitable when Byleth ascends and his father is killed by her allies.

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4 minutes ago, CyberNinja said:

1. It could be that all humans of the old society were agarthans, part of this could lead into their perception of being both saviors and the only true humans, essentially fire emblem enclave.

2. Actually underground would explain pupiless eyes as they are implied to be living in a near lightless environment and their ravaged bodies is explained by the toxic environment they live in created by poor ventilation and their technology having lots of waste. They also overuse and abuse dark magic which fire emblem consistently has as mutagenic or adverse to sanity. In sort they're blind or near blind toxic ravage subterranean mutant humans.

3. Simply dragontech and magic that greedy humans repurposed for their own ends creating dark and evil weapons. Rhea would likely prefer to keep such events from happening again and thus work to limit tech growth by humanity. Thus while fodlan might have been the most tech advanced they are now behind and thus reliant on artifacts and crests when at war with outsiders.

I could see that being it. But honestly speculation is not enough.

The plot needs confirmations and I still bet they'll come via DLC.

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6 minutes ago, Ottservia said:

actually if anything it would make her more gray. Morality in it of itself is gray and mostly subjective. Fictional morality is special in the sense that it is inherently black and white cause the morality in fiction is based on the morals and beliefs of the culture or society it was born from. I mean yeah it would've made us less likely to root for her and join her side based on or own moral values but that's what Moral gray in stories means. It's meant to shatter our pre-conceived black and white notions of what is truly right or wrong and bring to light how truly gray the world really is.

Now that's a lie. She's already placed in an antagonistic role, she's gray enough. You can justify everything she does. That'd just be completely wrong to kill Jeralt and would be shit writing to force Byleth to join her. Hell her entire goal was to never make an enemy of Byleth unless absolutely necessary. And he shows complete hostility against Kronya and Slithers for killing his dad. There is no excuses for a hostile Byleth against Edelgard to allow himself to work with her. Ever.

Edited by Seazas
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10 minutes ago, Yexin said:

not that everything else she does is less cruel, for example acting defenseless with a brigand she herself made a contract with in order to kill both claude and dimitri 

The game NEVER says her plan was to kill Claude and Dimitri. Especially since said brigand would have killed HER too. Would be a stupid plan. Why do people think her plan was to kill Claude and Dimitri? Especially for Dimitri it makes no sense for her to kill him, at least not at this point. She isn't heartless toward him.

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5 minutes ago, CyberNinja said:

Problem for Edelgard killing Byleth dad is her specific motivation not to make an enemy of Byleth until she feels it's inevitable when Byleth ascends and his father is killed by her allies.

well to be honest edelgard revealing herself as the flame emperor so soon, in the holy tomb (don't know its english name), doesn't make much sense either

she could've just been like "hey i don't like the church so i'm your enemy now, but you can still join me if you don't like the church as well", and maybe reveal herself as the flame emperor later on in another route, while fighting her post timeskip, while not revealing it if you join her

i mean, the game's already full of things you can't understand if you don't play the right path, and honestly edelgad being the flame emperor is not that important compared to byleth's very same origins

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2 minutes ago, Yexin said:

well to be honest edelgard revealing herself as the flame emperor so soon, in the holy tomb (don't know its english name), doesn't make much sense either

she could've just been like "hey i don't like the church so i'm your enemy now, but you can still join me if you don't like the church as well", and maybe reveal herself as the flame emperor later on in another route, while fighting her post timeskip, while not revealing it if you join her

i mean, the game's already full of things you can't understand if you don't play the right path, and honestly edelgad being the flame emperor is not that important compared to byleth's very same origins

Edelgard doesn't deliberately reveal herself as the Flame Emperor. The mask is damaged in the fight. It's explicitly shown in the BL route, and implied in the others.

EDIT: Wait, BE route. Right.

Edited by Slumber
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1 minute ago, Slumber said:

Edelgard doesn't deliberately reveal herself as the Flame Emperor. The mask is damaged in the fight. It's explicitly shown in the BL route, and implied in the others.

She stupidly reveals it on her own before the fight in Black Eagles actually.

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1 minute ago, Hauke said:

The game NEVER says her plan was to kill Claude and Dimitri. Especially since said brigand would have killed HER too. Would be a stupid plan. Why do people think her plan was to kill Claude and Dimitri? Especially for Dimitri it makes no sense for her to kill him, at least not at this point. She isn't heartless toward him.

It was the Flame Emperor even said he was supposed to kill lordIngs. Cluade screwed it up by running away forcing Edelgard and Dimitri to follow him. Before Byelth saves her pay close attention to the weapon she brings out. It was pretty obvious she had no actual axe skills till the academy.

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9 minutes ago, Hauke said:

The game NEVER says her plan was to kill Claude and Dimitri. Especially since said brigand would have killed HER too. Would be a stupid plan. Why do people think her plan was to kill Claude and Dimitri? Especially for Dimitri it makes no sense for her to kill him, at least not at this point. She isn't heartless toward him.

that's simply wrong

they openly say her plan was to kill claude and dimitri

also by playing blue lions you find out that edelgard remembers about that child who gave her a dagger as a present just like 2 chapters before the end of the route, so no, pre-timeskip edelgard doesn't feel anything towards dimitri

EDIT: not that feeling anything towards dimitri would stop her anyway

Edited by Yexin
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Morality being ultimately subjective doesn't mean there isn't any sort of logic you can apply to the situation.

Joining with the one person that killed the father that you (the character Byleth) cared for doesn't seem very logical.

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