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Jotari

Haha. She's a recluse. Wait, that's kind of messed up.

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4 minutes ago, Timlugia said:

I just wonder how Bernie was even accepted in the academy to begin with (I know her mother enrolled her)

You would assume sonmeone of her personality wouldn't suit to lead soldiers into combat

Well she's noble and her father is the minister of religious affairs or whatnot and it's a military academy run by the church so I would guess she's sorta a shoe in regardless of her ability.

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I do think it valuable to note how none of the other students seem to find Bernadetta's ways particularly funny...except for Hubert, but that's Hubert for ya. I like it even more that a number of students find her to be outright annoying, even if just at first, because that's far more realistic than everyone being a 24/7 Hugbot for her.

SPOILERS, Bernadetta supports (yes, I think they are particularly worth watching):

Bernadetta is presented as a victim of the institutions of her world, fallen to such a pathetic state that at first it might seem all there's left to do is to point and laugh at such a lost cause. However, instead of this, over time we see how the other students try their damnedest to help her: Caspar and Ferdinand's well-intentioned efforts, the subtlety of Sylvain seemingly recognizing her as not just another girl to hit on and dispose of in his usual way, but instead going the extra mile just to make her feel even a tiny bit better about herself. Ingrid finding common ground with her, motivating her. Seteth encouraging her to make more use of one of the talents she's developed. It's all very...sweet, and not as one note as I've seen some people claim. The characters in the game consistently treat the situation with Bernadetta seriously, which tempts the player over time to see Bernie as more than just how she outwardly asserts.More than just a one-note joke. 

Adding to this, throughout these support conversations one can catch little glimmers here and there of how Bernadetta is making an effort to grow, and change herself for the better. What follows is more SPOILERS for Bernadetta supports, as I try to break a few of these examples down, if anyone reading this would care to avoid them:

There's the time when she's seen muttering to herself "tomorrow's got to be just an inside day, Bernie," at the start of the Hubert C support, which at first glance might be seen as a line purely meant for laughs, but I saw as an early indicator of her purposely striving to break out of her old ways. In the Ferdinand B support, she claims some of the blame for hurting him, and admits she should talk to more people at least sometimes. With Leonie, she pushes past her usual anxieties when she recognizes a clear use for one of her gifts in a way that could help someone. She apologizes to Raphael, then makes more of an effort to overcome her anxiety around him. She finds the courage to open up to FELIX of all people, the most bristly MF in the whole game. Even if all this is just baby steps, it's hopeful. However, there's never any singular moment in which "Yay! Bernie's all better now!" which would have been a total stinker. The world effectively chewed her up then spat her out, but she's still alive and kicking, still . Trying her best despite her insecurities, and practically tossed by the wayside by her parents. Willingly returning to lay her life on the line for Byleth's cause post-timeskip, even though she'd surely much rather just remain shut away.

Gradually, after seeing enough of Bernie within these contexts, more than just hearing her troubled backstory, I think you're meant to stop laughing as you come to realize she isn't just a mere comic relief but representative of an actual, fleshed out human being. However, that's not to say her behavior should be expected to change in any way as It's like...a person who goes around screaming fish all the time (Flayn), at all hours of the day, might seem funny at first to some, but that's not to say they don't still have some very serious, deep underlying psychological issues.

There may be something inherently funny about the outward behaviors of this hypothetical fish guy, or Bernadetta's paranoia, but in the latter's case there is much more to them than just that one aspect of their personality, which I think the game's writing respectfully illustrates quite well, and just knowing why they act the way they do isn't going to magically change them, even if it does alter your perception a bit.

I think eventually you're really meant to stop laughing and instead start rooting for Bernie, just as many of the students do.

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11 minutes ago, Landmaster said:

1. Lon'qu doesn't "let her die". She was murdered, he wasn't able to stop it.

2. He's harsh to women because he's afraid of getting too close to one and losing her in the same way as Ke'Ri. I don't know any female in the game Lon'qu treats "like crap". The worst he does is just tell them to keep their distance. And he's also clearly capable of suppressing it in serious situations and some women don't even affect him at all by like Support B, so I really don't get how you reached the conclusion that he treats all women like crap.

1. The point is he doesn't have a reason for the contempt of "womankind" he expresses all the time.

2. He refers to women as "your kind" in Tharja's support.
He mocks the idea of a woman picking up sword fighting in Robin's support.
And my personal favorite: He refers to her as a "mere woman" right after he proposes to her. So much about that whole "getting too close" excuse.
 

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6 minutes ago, BrightBow said:

1. The point is he doesn't have a reason for the contempt of "womankind" he expresses all the time.

2. He refers to women as "your kind" in Tharja's support.
He mocks the idea of a woman picking up sword fighting in Robin's support.
And my personal favorite: He refers to her as a "mere woman" right after he proposes to her. So much about that whole "getting too close" excuse.
 

But it's not contempt. He's afraid of losing another woman who was close to him. He doesn't hate women, it's fear.

And yeah, he's definitely harsh in his word choices but that's just his character in general, he's that way with men, too~ I personally don't see these as "treating women like crap". By this logic, he treats most of the cast like crap~

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1 minute ago, Landmaster said:

But it's not contempt. He's afraid of losing another woman who was close to him. He doesn't hate women, it's fear.

And yeah, he's definitely harsh in his word choices but that's just his character in general, he's that way with men, too~ I personally don't see these as "treating women like crap". By this logic, he treats most of the cast like crap~

Oh, so when a man wants to spar with him, he tells him that swordsplay is a woman's pursuit? Or how surprised he is that he would do something for a "mere man"?
 

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Just now, BrightBow said:

Oh, so when a man wants to spar with him, he tells him that swordsplay is a woman's pursuit? Or how surprised he is that he would do something for a "mere man"?
 

Nope, but he generally doesn't show too much interest in the men either~ He's the the loner archetype, he doesn't bother much with anyone~ Like I said, he's generally harsh to most characters he interacts with~ It's just more so to women because of Ke'Ri, it's not due to hatred~ 

That's all, if you still think he hates women and treats them like crap, do so by all means~ I don't mean to take the thread off topic~

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I didn't really see Bernadetta's gimmick being treated for the sake of being funny. Yes, some of her goofing around is funny, but that's how we avaliate her reactions to be, instead of how they really are intended to be. That's something I realized on hindsight, actually.

The thing is that, at least until where I'm playing (part 2's beginning), we don't really see the characters progressing in their issues. So Bernie will always be the shut-in girl who makes no progress despite gradually developing her support conversations, Marianne will always be depressed and anxious, Hilda will always be faux-lazy etc. The game comes up with real, serious issues,  but doesn't bother treating them in a serious way, hence why they feel like "somewhat more complex" personality gimmicks.

Edited by Rapier

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19 minutes ago, Landmaster said:

Nope, but he generally doesn't show too much interest in the men either~ He's the the loner archetype, he doesn't bother much with anyone~ Like I said, he's generally harsh to most characters he interacts with~ It's just more so to women because of Ke'Ri, it's not due to hatred~ 

That's all, if you still think he hates women and treats them like crap, do so by all means~ I don't mean to take the thread off topic~

Do you not see the difference between saying "You suck!" and "Women suck!"?

In any case, I did list some moments where he expressed open contempt for the larger half of humanity. If he is portrayed differently in other supports, that would just emphasize what I said earlier, that IS simply exploits these kind of issues for superficial fetish appeal.
Which is why they don't care if their current intern writes Lon'qu as being simply afraid of women or that he has contempt for women. His hat is that he doesn't want women to get close and that's cute and funny because he is this big, tough, stoic guy and women are these fragile, delicate things. The specifics in which this behavior manifests does not matter because the characters themselves no longer matter as actual characters.

And therefore, as I said coming in here, IS does not deserve the benefit of the doubt with the way they treat Bernadetta.

Edited by BrightBow

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3 minutes ago, BrightBow said:

Do you not see the difference between saying "You suck!" and "Women suck!"?

In any case, I did list some moments where he expressed open contempt for the larger half of humanity. If he is portrayed differently in other supports, that would just emphasize what I said earlier, that IS simply exploits these kind of issues for superficial fetish appeal.
Which is why they don't care if their current intern writes Lon'qu as being simply afraid of women or that he actually hates women. His hat is that he doesn't want women to get close and that's cute and funny because he is this big, tough, stoic guy and women are these fragile, delicate things. The specifics in which this behavior manifests does not matter because the characters themselves no longer matter as actual characters.

And therefore, as I said coming in here, IS does not deserve the benefit of the doubt with the way they treat Bernadetta.

You keep going back to saying "xxx sucks!" He doesn't hate women, again, he has a fear of them and I can see that it can come across as hatred if you don't realize he talks that way to most people~ There's legitimately very few people Lon'qu has a flat out normal conversation with (which is made even harder to see because most characters only have like 2-3 Supports with the same gender in Awakening)~ OFC it's easier to see him "hating women" than "generally being cold to everyone".

But I get the point you're trying to make in that the jokes are more important than the actual characters from your perspective. I don't totally agree and I don't particularly think Bernadetta was done that badly. I honestly think they tried to have two gags with her at once and it doesn't come across well how it's implemented. She clearly doesn't like to leave her room and she clearly doesn't like to interact with other people and that in itself is fine as a gag. But the whole "being afraid that normal students will literally kill her" because her father could have legitimately killed her, does objectively not mix well.

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45 minutes ago, Rapier said:

The thing is that, at least until where I'm playing (part 2's beginning), we don't really see the characters progressing in their issues. So Bernie will always be the shut-in girl who makes no progress despite gradually developing her support conversations,

In the case of Bernadetta, in Part Two, you actually can spot her in various parts of the monastery, showing that she's at least able to work up the courage and actually walk around. However, this is only in the Crimson Flower route. In literally any other route, Bernadetta will remain a shut-in (if you recruited her), which genuinely kinda bothers me.

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A lot of these posts seem kind of unfair, like people only saw her monastery dialogue and Byleth supports and drew conclusions too fast. Other characters don't laugh at her and while you could say the game occasionally treats her anxiety like a joke, it was never tasteless.

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1 hour ago, TrueNoble said:

I do think it valuable to note how none of the other students seem to find Bernadetta's ways particularly funny...except for Hubert, but that's Hubert for ya. I like it even more that a number of students find her to be outright annoying, even if just at first, because that's far more realistic than everyone being a 24/7 Hugbot for her.

SPOILERS, Bernadetta supports (yes, I think they are particularly worth watching):

Bernadetta is presented as a victim of the institutions of her world, fallen to such a pathetic state that at first it might seem all there's left to do is to point and laugh at such a lost cause. However, instead of this, over time we see how the other students try their damnedest to help her: Caspar and Ferdinand's well-intentioned efforts, the subtlety of Sylvain seemingly recognizing her as not just another girl to hit on and dispose of in his usual way, but instead going the extra mile just to make her feel even a tiny bit better about herself. Ingrid finding common ground with her, motivating her. Seteth encouraging her to make more use of one of the talents she's developed. It's all very...sweet, and not as one note as I've seen some people claim. The characters in the game consistently treat the situation with Bernadetta seriously, which tempts the player over time to see Bernie as more than just how she outwardly asserts.More than just a one-note joke. 

Adding to this, throughout these support conversations one can catch little glimmers here and there of how Bernadetta is making an effort to grow, and change herself for the better. What follows is more SPOILERS for Bernadetta supports, as I try to break a few of these examples down, if anyone reading this would care to avoid them:

There's the time when she's seen muttering to herself "tomorrow's got to be just an inside day, Bernie," at the start of the Hubert C support, which at first glance might be seen as a line purely meant for laughs, but I saw as an early indicator of her purposely striving to break out of her old ways. In the Ferdinand B support, she claims some of the blame for hurting him, and admits she should talk to more people at least sometimes. With Leonie, she pushes past her usual anxieties when she recognizes a clear use for one of her gifts in a way that could help someone. She apologizes to Raphael, then makes more of an effort to overcome her anxiety around him. She finds the courage to open up to FELIX of all people, the most bristly MF in the whole game. Even if all this is just baby steps, it's hopeful. However, there's never any singular moment in which "Yay! Bernie's all better now!" which would have been a total stinker. The world effectively chewed her up then spat her out, but she's still alive and kicking, still . Trying her best despite her insecurities, and practically tossed by the wayside by her parents. Willingly returning to lay her life on the line for Byleth's cause post-timeskip, even though she'd surely much rather just remain shut away.

Gradually, after seeing enough of Bernie within these contexts, more than just hearing her troubled backstory, I think you're meant to stop laughing as you come to realize she isn't just a mere comic relief but representative of an actual, fleshed out human being. However, that's not to say her behavior should be expected to change in any way as It's like...a person who goes around screaming fish all the time (Flayn), at all hours of the day, might seem funny at first to some, but that's not to say they don't still have some very serious, deep underlying psychological issues.

There may be something inherently funny about the outward behaviors of this hypothetical fish guy, or Bernadetta's paranoia, but in the latter's case there is much more to them than just that one aspect of their personality, which I think the game's writing respectfully illustrates quite well, and just knowing why they act the way they do isn't going to magically change them, even if it does alter your perception a bit.

I think eventually you're really meant to stop laughing and instead start rooting for Bernie, just as many of the students do.

Hey, a dissenting opinion. I like it. But I still disagree. If Bernie just had anxiety because, well some people just do for no great reason, then I could see all that working. It's an approach to a character trait, like Hilda. Using humor to be series to some degree. But that isn't the case with Bernadetta. Her anxiety comes from really serious, fucking horrendous abuse, and that is not played lightheartedly at all. It's not tragicomedy because that part isn't meant to be comedic at all. But then, a lot of the rest of it is (or rather, I think endearing is probably a better word than comedic, as this is fetish Emblem and I doubt many people actually find it funny). When I first got to a scene detailing their history, my reaction wasn't "Gee I feel bad about the way I saw her before," it was, "Are you serious game? You're going to drop that on me and you've been treating her like a joke the entire time?" It'd be like if Olivia's shyness stemmed directly from being raped, or Kellam revealing he's tried to commit suicide on multiple occasions because his life is a living hell. It's how I reacted at any rate. Maybe what you described is their intention and it just didn't work on me (and others) because her brand of humor/fetishism just doesn't appeal to me to fall into the "trap" so to speak.

5 hours ago, redlight said:

From what I heard she's sounds more psychotic in JP. Might be why I found her to be cringey as the voice direction for her was made to be cutesy even though she was a disturbed individual with the end result of Bernadetta coming off as grating to me. Whether or not they still try to play her experiences off as comic relief in JP is unknown to me. I'll try playing BE with JP voices once I get the chance after GD. While I do appreciate writers exploring things outside of the boundaries they're usually used to, sometimes they really don't know what they're doing.

You want to write someone in a way that makes the readers go "mush protecc"? Make them like Marianne

Maybe it comes more from the voice acting than the writing. Tone is important after all and the flustered, slightly shouty voice they gave Bernadetta isn't helping matters (do you ever get the feeling that this girl is actually, genuinely afraid? Her tone is more a perpetual startled). It could be that they misinterpreted the nuance of the character and depicted her more comedic than she was actually intended to be. And just had no choice but to play it straight for the serious parts because most of the work had been done already.

Edited by Jotari

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3 hours ago, Florete said:

A lot of these posts seem kind of unfair, like people only saw her monastery dialogue and Byleth supports and drew conclusions too fast. Other characters don't laugh at her and while you could say the game occasionally treats her anxiety like a joke, it was never tasteless.

I think there's some confusion on people laughing at Bernie vs. people laughing at her gimmick.

I can't think of many characters within the story who actually make fun of Bernie. Obviously characters aren't cornering her and pointing at her and chanting "LOOK AT THE RECLUSE!" But her condition, which is a result of abuse, is absolutely played for laughs. Almost every single one of her support chains is comical in nature, and most revolve around people dealing with her reclusiveness and skittishness. Ingrid is very forceful with her and keeps muscling her way into Bernie's life, Felix keeps pestering her because he admires her form when she's scared out of her mind, Hubert scares her so much that his mere presence is enough for her to lose consciousness... it's not a trait that's handled with much care or respect. You could definitely argue that it's tasteless, since Bernie's upbringing, which led to her condition, is incredibly traumatic for her.

Especially when put next to Marianne, who again, also has major social anxiety brought upon by a traumatic upbringing, but is played for laughs way less, and her supports have a much more neutral tone.

Edited by Slumber

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I liked both Bernadetta's and Marianne's characters and really didn't find them that different in quality. I felt sympathy and laughed in equal measure for both of them. Yes Bernie goes more over the top in her reactions, and the music and voice acting choices are different. But the substance of what the characters say, other characters' reactions to them, and their backstories all seemed consistent to me, and I had Bernie recruited in a Golden Deer run so I was seeing them in the closest contrast possible.

Characters don't have to be 100% serious or 100% comedic, and revealing a tragic backstory doesn't mean their behaviour or the world's reaction to them is suddenly going to flip. They're maybe not textbook character arcs, but the game did a good job with the formula of character gimmick + serious backstory for most of its cast. It's a videogame that emphasizes player freedom and has 30+ characters, so I thought it did well given that much.

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Just now, Lynsanity said:

Characters don't have to be 100% serious or 100% comedic, and revealing a tragic backstory doesn't mean their behaviour or the world's reaction to them is suddenly going to flip.

Yes, precisely this! The fact of the matter is that most characters in the game...most people in the world...have faced some degree of abuse, tragedy, suffering, all that bad stuff throughout their life, that's shaped them into the person they are now. It doesn't follow that just because we're clued into Bernadetta's particular circumstances that the entire tone of the character should shift for everyone. It can be assumed that most of the students never even gain this knowledge, but regardless must still come up with their own unique strategies for dealing with her...let's say eccentric personality, which as I detailed previously just as often leads to humorous moments in the supports as it does some actually quite sweet and tender ones (Ferdinand B, Dorothea B, Sylvain B come to mind).

The tragic backstory is really only one part of the Bernie cake! Her particular eccentricities would remain the same whether or not you were ever made aware of it. Adversely, whether or not we still laugh can be changed, once we're provided with this context. Our perspective can change.

I do believe that "oh shit, I shouldn't be laughing at this character anymore" reaction people here are describing was wholly intended by the writers. Just think of how many persons you might know inrl whose odd quirks and behaviors might actually that, although you might find amusing now, could have a basis in some as of yet unknown childhood trauma, or psychological disorder. Obviously Bernie's own quirks are a bit extreme, but that's what makes her a character. Many of the students in the game that aren't named Ignatz are extreme in some regard, and sure you can argue that it's insensitive to have one character's extreme traits be literally their anxiety and constant state of paranoia, but as I detailed in my previous response you can see from support conversations that these aren't even her sole defining traits.

Taking all this into account, is the Bernie cake not just a reflection of humanity as valid and meaningful as any other? If not more so?

(Also yes, I do see fit to give the writers within the confines of their work on Three Houses that much credit.) 

 

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My first impression of her: 😆

But I am highly sure she will have a reason for that. 

 

 

Also Marianne is a character I can perfectly relate to myself. She is extremly introvert and likes to care for animals as I do. 

Edited by Lysithea

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I found that her supports often reveal flaws in other characters when taken out of a comedic context, and work as tragic scenes. For example, look at Bernadetta's C support with Ingrid. If you don't know about Bernie's past, the support is hilarious! However, once one realises that Bernadetta has genuine reasons for not wanting to interact with others, the support instead reveals a lot of genuine flaws in Ingrid's character. Ingrid is somewhat blinkered in her focus on becoming the perfect knight, and tends to project her own thoughts and desires onto others. She therefore incorrectly relates Bernadetta's reclusive nature to her own past even though, despite having the same symptoms, the two conditions are actually completely different. So, Ingrid misreads Bernadetta's wants and needs, and acts in accordance with what she would want, not what Bernadetta actually wants. Ingrid does the wrong thing because she doesn't know better, and this adds to her character.

I think the main problem here is that the writers failed to account how people remember things. Once players find out about Bernadetta's true nature, we don't look back upon her supports and see them in the new, serious light. Instead, we look back on the supports in an emotive light, thinking they must have been comedic because we laughed. Many of us think "this support is insensitive because it gave me an insensitive reaction" even though the writer cannot be expected to control how the audience perceives things. It's a classic example of how the Cerebus Retcon can often fall flat. The only reason why I noticed this is because my particular version of Asperger's Syndrome helps me view my memories in an emotion-neutral light; 99%+ of the population doesn't have that luxury.

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The thing with Bernadetta is that it's not that they're swinging wildly from "this is seriously messed up" to "lol shut-in problems," they play it both ways, at once.

Look at her C-support with Dorothea, where it's pretty clear. Bernie's hanging out in the garden wishing people were more like plants (because plants aren't threatening). She muses about how cool she thinks Dorothea is, Dorothea walks in, overhears, and shows enthusiasm for Bernadette making friends. Bernadette freaks out, self-deprecates, and flees when Dorothea states that she already considers them friends, screaming something about her dad that confuses Dorothea.

For the audience, assuming this is their first time through, it's played as 'ha ha, social anxiety, freaking out and running for cover, Bernie's so extra!' as a scene.

From the character perspective of Dorothea, it's just frustrating and confusing, where she was trying to have a cute moment with her friend and it derailed confusingly.

From the character perspective of Bernadetta, she goes from comfortable because she's by herself to nervous because someone she finds intimidatingly cool is around and just heard her personal thoughts without her realizing, but she's making a go at socializing with this person despite her anxiety because she likes them. Finding out that Dorothea considers her a friend already, and that she never realized it, brings up her memories of her dad damn near murdering some random commoner for being her friend, which cranks her experience of her issues up way over her ability to process and she flips out and flees. The unexplained reason for her panic isn't just introvert social anxiety, it's the dawning impression of her amazing mental image of this person she likes being replaced by one of her beaten to a bloody pulp, and the realization that she would have been powerless to stop it because she didn't even realize the risk factors had started showing up. So she needs to escape to a situation where she is in control again, and where she can't accidentally set things in motion to spiral horribly out of control. For her, the scene is pretty much entirely dominated by her PTSD. It's dark.

But nobody around her can see that, not even the audience (the first time through) can because  we only get a glimpse into that part of her internal life in scenes that come after this one. And the experience of someone who doesn't understand what they are seeing here is no less real or valid than Bernadette's own. The people around her don't get to follow her to her room and get her to explain immediately, so they're left to process the confusing scene without understanding why things happened as they did, and contradictions between expectations and reality are kind of the underpinning of all comedy, so it's kind of natural that a lot of people will laugh it off.

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13 hours ago, Florete said:

A lot of these posts seem kind of unfair, like people only saw her monastery dialogue and Byleth supports and drew conclusions too fast. Other characters don't laugh at her and while you could say the game occasionally treats her anxiety like a joke, it was never tasteless.

Yeah, that’s what this sort of feels like.

May even apply to other criticisms about the game as well.

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1 hour ago, Kunan said:

The thing with Bernadetta is that it's not that they're swinging wildly from "this is seriously messed up" to "lol shut-in problems," they play it both ways, at once.

Look at her C-support with Dorothea, where it's pretty clear. Bernie's hanging out in the garden wishing people were more like plants (because plants aren't threatening). She muses about how cool she thinks Dorothea is, Dorothea walks in, overhears, and shows enthusiasm for Bernadette making friends. Bernadette freaks out, self-deprecates, and flees when Dorothea states that she already considers them friends, screaming something about her dad that confuses Dorothea.

For the audience, assuming this is their first time through, it's played as 'ha ha, social anxiety, freaking out and running for cover, Bernie's so extra!' as a scene.

From the character perspective of Dorothea, it's just frustrating and confusing, where she was trying to have a cute moment with her friend and it derailed confusingly.

From the character perspective of Bernadetta, she goes from comfortable because she's by herself to nervous because someone she finds intimidatingly cool is around and just heard her personal thoughts without her realizing, but she's making a go at socializing with this person despite her anxiety because she likes them. Finding out that Dorothea considers her a friend already, and that she never realized it, brings up her memories of her dad damn near murdering some random commoner for being her friend, which cranks her experience of her issues up way over her ability to process and she flips out and flees. The unexplained reason for her panic isn't just introvert social anxiety, it's the dawning impression of her amazing mental image of this person she likes being replaced by one of her beaten to a bloody pulp, and the realization that she would have been powerless to stop it because she didn't even realize the risk factors had started showing up. So she needs to escape to a situation where she is in control again, and where she can't accidentally set things in motion to spiral horribly out of control. For her, the scene is pretty much entirely dominated by her PTSD. It's dark.

But nobody around her can see that, not even the audience (the first time through) can because  we only get a glimpse into that part of her internal life in scenes that come after this one. And the experience of someone who doesn't understand what they are seeing here is no less real or valid than Bernadette's own. The people around her don't get to follow her to her room and get her to explain immediately, so they're left to process the confusing scene without understanding why things happened as they did, and contradictions between expectations and reality are kind of the underpinning of all comedy, so it's kind of natural that a lot of people will laugh it off.

Don't know, I agree but Dorothea/Bernie's C support was the first support I got in the game and it gave me the impression there was something severely wrong in her past, its part of why I'm trying to find how others found her supports comedic, at all.

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I personally think truly - Bernadetta is basically how we tend to treat people - we're not very close to (or the social "hey how are you, blah blah."). 

Yes Bernie can be extremely melodramatic, lives in her head way too much, and freaks out as pointed out in several supports. 
but that's because i feel it's very shallow. as most of the supports expand, Bernie explains some of her past, or she grows to trust them-the campy music ends, the freaking out is due to a minimum, she grows as a person and the friendship strengthens. i think it's really well done.

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Here's my thing with Bernie. This isn't really the first time we've had characters like this in FE. Hell her particular archetype is actually a staple of modern anime. I wouldn't say it's supposed to be comedic as it is supposed to be cute and endearing. Cause the thing about Bernie is that her anxiety and paranoia is reasonable with the proper context. The reason why, I believe, it comes as comedic at first is simply because of how extreme she acts. It kind of plays with our expectations a bit. You see her acting calm one minute but the minute another person shows up she completely flips out which is such a harsh contrast from how she was previously that we're just thrown for a loop much like the other character involved in the support. It comes off as funny because of how extreme she reacts to just a simple "hello" cause to us without context her behavior just comes off as flat out ridiculous and way too over the top which is a major factor of comedy. exaggeration and turning relatively normal scenarios into something completely over the top and ridiculous are perfectly normal things in the realm of comedy(If you want an example of what I mean just look at the nichijou anime).

The only reason it is funny is because of the lack of understanding of the other character and the audience. With context however, imo it becomes more endearing than funny. Or rather to me it comes off as more "Bernie calm down he's just trying to help". Like now that I have context I just want to help. And as others have said no character really makes fun of Bernie for her awkwardness hell Hubert actually goes out of his way to avoid her in order to not make her uncomfortable because he knows he scares her. I dunno personally I find no issue with the way Bernedetta is handled.

Though I will admit her character does kind of feel like they thought of the cute shy and funny character first and just kind of retroactively slapped a backstory onto it.

Edited by Ottservia

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I liked Bernadetta. Some comments:

-I don't think the game ever paints her as truly a joke, the way Awakening did; in fact 3H hardly ever paints any character as just a joke (maybe Raphael? Haven't gotten through all his supports yet but he seems the closest to one). Yes, her social anxiety is so extreme as to trigger a bit of type of gallows humour reaction, but for me at least it was immediately obvious that there was some root cause for it and I would feel like garbage for laughing at her.

-I've had multiple friends who suffer from major social anxiety tell me they really like Bernadetta because her internal monologue is, to them, very realistic. (Of course, the difference between them and Bernadetta is that she also has no filter so we know what she's thinking, this makes her more interesting for the audience even though it's an unlikely combination of traits.) Given that, I just can't dislike her character, even if I felt the game treated her badly (which I don't).

-Her support line with Ferdinand is one of the sweetest things in the game. Watching Ferdie, a character I had just assumed would be some arrogant blowhard, try his best to cheer Bernadetta in a way that respected her and her need for space, and her build up the confidence to tell him he shouldn't blame himself for the accident, was absolutely heart-warming.

Unlike other people here I connected much less well with Marianne. While Bernadetta's trauma was based on something I empathized with closely (I've been lucky, but MANY of my friends suffered from abusive parents), Marianne's was based on something I found much less believable/relatable (superstitions about her being cursed).

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On 8/24/2019 at 10:27 PM, Armagon said:

In the case of Bernadetta, in Part Two, you actually can spot her in various parts of the monastery, showing that she's at least able to work up the courage and actually walk around. However, this is only in the Crimson Flower route. In literally any other route, Bernadetta will remain a shut-in (if you recruited her), which genuinely kinda bothers me.

this bugged me a lot too. 
it would have been nice (even if it was (depending on the path) - some chapters you saw her out of her room, that would have been nice. 

3 minutes ago, Dark Holy Elf said:

Marianne's was based on something I found much less believable/relatable (superstitions about her being cursed).

 

for Marianne - it's not a superstition about being cursed - it's the (spoilers just in case)

 

Spoiler

the utter fear of her crest. and what that crest is. basically it's a "cursed" crest. Maurice- the first person to have it turned into this rabid beast for 1000 years. most people who have had it ended up being hurt or killed ultimately because people find out about the crest, and freak out.Marianne's parents (though we know little) died (perhaps as a result of it). Marianne's adoptive father basically shills Marianne out due to her crest - and is basically told not to open her mouth about it, and makes everyone at the monestary swear not to test her/do anything about it - because he feels it's a horrible thing too. (BUT not enough so that he still won't Crestpimp out Marianne). 

So she really feels that she's damaged goods. Linhardt's support is really sweet as he tries to help her explain that is simply not the case. Same with Ferdie. 

 

Edited by daisy jane

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Many of the characters are less happy and generally doing less well on routes that aren't their own (which makes sense, because they're fighting against people they hold dear). In addition to Bernadetta it's highly noticeable with Felix and Dorothea, to pick two off the top of my head, though there were others to varying degrees. I'm okay with that.

I know Marianne's backstory (though it has holes, I don't think the game is going to fill those in) and have completed her paralogue. I agree there's some in-setting justification for it so perhaps "superstition" was too strong a choice of wording, but it's still far less relatable to me.

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