Voting Gauntlet: Brave Rivalries! (August 29th)

[Diovani Bressan]

Nice! Micaiah wins!

Berkut got the 11.8x, so Micaiah will get the 12x multipliers and defeat Berkut!

Micaiah is on Round 3, guys!

[Ginko]

Prepare to die!! That final hour will be very huge.

Like the effective damage she can deal to Berkut.

Edited September 2, 2019 by Ginko

[Diovani Bressan]

42 minutes ago, Ginko said:

Prepare to die!! That final hour will be very huge.

Like the effective damage she can deal to Berkut.

Effective against Cavalry and being a green unit, Warding Stance 4 will not protect Berkut from defeat!

My flags are ready, my friend.

[Ginko]

13 minutes ago, Diovani Bressan said:

Effective against Cavalry and being a green unit, Warding Stance 4 will not protect Berkut from defeat!

My flags are ready, my friend.

Claude: My moment have arrived!

Lysithea: It's done! (800 flags gone)

[XRay]

2 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:

This isn't a popularity contest. It's a game of hot potato where your team works together to try to push a giant potato into the other team's court and have time run out when it's there, and the multiplier exists to help keep the potato near the middle of the field.

 Imagine a court that's sloped on either side so that gravity pushes the potato back towards the middle (and the slope increases as the match continues). The slope is there to make sure the bigger team can't just bulldoze their way through the smaller team, but they can still get the potato out of their own court faster than the smaller team.

 

If it doesn't function like a popularity contest, then it isn't a popularity contest. Simple as that. As far as I'm aware, there no recent verbiage in Japanese insinuating that it's a popularity contest, so if they're still implying it's a popularity contest in English, that's the localization team's fault.

But the Voting Gauntlet as it was first conceived was practically a popularity contest. Characters who got more fans win, no exceptions. A lot of players prefer the original element of the event were popular characters always win. A lot of players do not like the hot potato element that was introduced and we want that removed. We know it is not a true popularity contest in the normal sense anymore, and that is why we dislike it.

I do not think what players are arguing over is whether or not Voting Gauntlet is a traditional popularity contest. Players talked about the hot potato element, but I do not think that was the main focus. What the argument I think boils down to is whether characters who won deserved their win. I think all characters who won deserve their win, no matter what the Voting Gauntlet's rules were at the time, and I think this is what Vax and others are arguing. Ana thinks otherwise, and she gives the impression that only characters she likes deserve to win, even if such characters have less fans. She probably does not mean to, but her actions and words often unintentionally rub other players the wrong way. Complaining about modes being difficult while refusing free critical resources and bashing on other players' favorite characters is not exactly great for optics.

[MisterIceTeaPeach]

Got up with the first multiplayer I have seen since Saturday. 

Good way to start this week.

 

 

Quote

Lysithea: It's done! (800 flags gone) 

Yup, I am a good subordinate!

Edited September 2, 2019 by Lysithea

[Ice Dragon]

3 minutes ago, XRay said:

But the Voting Gauntlet as it was first conceived was practically a popularity contest. Characters who got more fans win, no exceptions. A lot of players prefer the original element of the event were popular characters always win. A lot of players do not like the hot potato element that was introduced and we want that removed. We know it is not a true popularity contest in the normal sense anymore, and that is why we dislike it.

I do not think what players are arguing over is whether or not Voting Gauntlet is a traditional popularity contest. Players talked about the hot potato element, but I do not think that was the main focus. What the argument I think boils down to is whether characters who won deserved their win. I think all characters who won deserve their win, no matter what the Voting Gauntlet's rules were at the time, and I think this is what Vax and others are arguing. Ana thinks otherwise, and she gives the impression that only characters she likes deserve to win, even if such characters have less fans. She probably does not mean to, but her actions and words often unintentionally rub other players the wrong way. Complaining about modes being difficult while refusing free critical resources and bashing on other players' favorite characters is not exactly great for optics.

I still feel like most of the players who are unsatisfied with this game mode are so because they want it to be a popularity contest and won't settle for anything else despite the fact that a straight popularity contest fails spectacularly at being a game mode. It's simply not engaging to have a 45-hour long validation that one character (or version of a character) is more popular than another.

Whether or not characters "deserve their win" is a direct result of the wish that the game mode is a straight popularity contest where the team with more support is guaranteed or nearly guaranteed a win (except in close matches). Otherwise, how else would a character "deserve" a win as opposed to simply "achieving" a win?

 

I like to bring up the analogy of sports where there is much less vilification of an underdog for winning. Why is it okay for an underdog to win in sports, but not in Voting Gauntlet?

People also then like to use the multiplier mechanic as a counterargument, usually on the grounds that professional sports don't have such kinds of mechanics that give the underdog a chance beyond their own skill and luck. But such a mechanic does exist, but not at a professional level.

In professional sports, almost all games are, relatively speaking, "close matches". A catch-up mechanic is not necessary.

But Voting Gauntlet is a game where the little leagues can be pitted directly against the professionals where some matches will be complete blowouts and at a far larger extent than the "blowouts" at the professional level. And a mechanic to make such a match a "fair fight" does exist. It's called a "handicap". In most games (sports or otherwise), handicaps are determined before the match begins based on the fact that the contestants have a reasonably good idea how well they will fare against each other and can therefore select a suitable handicap to ensure that the game is still engaging to the audience and the players alike.

However, Voting Gauntlet doesn't have a good way of determining these handicaps on the fly since it has no idea what the relative strengths of contestants is, and it most certainly cannot trust the participants to agree on a handicap before matches begin. The multiplier mechanic therefore serves as a dynamic handicap that evens the playing field enough for an engaging match. The most notable feature of this handicap is that it physically cannot be overtuned by a faulty initial estimate to allow the weaker team to steamroll a stronger team. The stronger team always has the upper hand (up until the last few hours when it becomes clear whether or not a team can take the winning point, but many games are like that), and the weaker team always still has a fighting chance (again, up until the same last few hours).

 

 

I need to stop writing essays.

[Xenomata]

Surprising... maybe, like, some rocks or something, Micaiah moves on to the final round.

[Ginko]

It's Micaiah vs Camilla, right?

Anyone from Eliwood or Camilla can confirm this?

[Anacybele]

...Now only Micaiah and Camilla are left? 😕 (I can confirm Eliwood lost.)

Sigh... No thanks. I can't stand either of these two. This gauntlet wasn't much fun for me anyway.

 

Edited September 2, 2019 by Anacybele

[0 Def Cleric]

I don't mind Brave!Camilla, so I'll not be too pissed if she wins. The victory feathers for Micaiah would be nice, though. Plus she's not won a gauntlet before. 

Just glad that all of the cardboard men (Eliwood, Alm, RD!Ike) have been eliminated. 

Edited September 2, 2019 by 0 Def Cleric

[Jave]

Wow, Micaiah on a Gauntlet final. Her days of being the most hated FE character really are gone.

Here's hoping for an interesting final match. Not surprised if we get a lot of Same Hell.

[Sunwoo]

Hey, Eliwood is NOT cardboard.

No opinion on the other two, PoR!Ike is better.

[SockPuppet]

Alm is a precious good noodle, not a piece of cardboard!

Going Micaiah for the win!

[XRay]

12 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

I still feel like most of the players who are unsatisfied with this game mode are so because they want it to be a popularity contest and won't settle for anything else despite the fact that a straight popularity contest fails spectacularly at being a game mode. It's simply not engaging to have a 45-hour long validation that one character (or version of a character) is more popular than another.

Whether or not characters "deserve their win" is a direct result of the wish that the game mode is a straight popularity contest where the team with more support is guaranteed or nearly guaranteed a win (except in close matches). Otherwise, how else would a character "deserve" a win as opposed to simply "achieving" a win?

Many of us do like a 45-hour long self validation, but many of us also do not go bashing on characters we did not support. We are unsatisfied with the pseudo-popularity contest, but that does not mean we did not think characters who won with the new rule did not deserve it. We have a problem with the new rule, not the winners. There is different between saying a rule sucks and a winner sucks.

We know this is not a straightforward popularity contest. The original popularity contest Voting Gauntlet has sailed long ago and it is not coming back. Whether we like the rules or not, we know all winners deserve their win given the new rules, because they won it fair and square.

For Ana, the impression she gives to many players is fuck the rules, it is my-way-or-the-highway sense of entitlement. Whether or not the hot potato element exists honestly does not matter. The only thing that matters is that her favorite characters win. If her favorite characters win, then it is fair; if her favorite character did not win, then it is not fair. If the game is presenting a challenge, the default response is complaining that the objective is too hard instead of approaching it from a different angle that is often times much easier. Switching strategies, using other characters, taking advantage of free and critical resources, etc. are unacceptable alternatives that she would only consider until the game practically forces her to do so.

[Sunwoo]

Honestly ... why don't you guys just ignore her at this point? Like, this same song and dance has been done so many times before and all it does is clog up the thread. Not replying to her seems like the best option for everyone involved.

Edited September 2, 2019 by Sunwoo

[mampfoid]

Too bad Eliwood is out. I'm with Camilla this time. 

[GrandeRampel]

Wow, a Micaiah vs Camilla grand final.

Talk about a win-win scenario. Both of them really deserve to win.

Camilla deserves to win just to get back to the people who were suspicious of her popularity not being legit. That she stole a Brave alt because of meme votes, or cheating, or fake accounts etc.

Sure Bill, Camilla has so few actual fans that actually play the game that in the first round she had more support than fricking IKE and in the end she won the whole thing.

But on the other hand, Micaiah deserves to win because she was hated and bashed for way longer than Camilla and even in this game she was added after Ike and Elincia, she was the penultimate lord, only beaten by poor Leif.

She deserves her moment of glory.

If a tie mechanic existed this would be the match I would like to see end in a tie.

Both the queen of Daein and the queen of Nohr are winners in my book. I will continue to support Camilla while wishing good luck to all of you on team Micaiah.

Edited September 2, 2019 by GrandeRampel

[Dark Holy Elf]

I love this VG.

Also nothing against Alm (I actually kinda like him) but him doing so badly in this kinda reveals that his CYL3 results were a bit of a fraud, which is what I had already strong suspected.

[Diovani Bressan]

41 minutes ago, Dark Holy Elf said:

I love this VG.

Also nothing against Alm (I actually kinda like him) but him doing so badly in this kinda reveals that his CYL3 results were a bit of a fraud, which is what I had already strong suspected.

I don't believe the CYL 3 results was a fraud. He did pretty well in CYL 2. However, I still believe the CYL votes should be inside the game and not in a website. For CYL 1, there game wasn't release yet, so that's ok. But for the others year, only FEH players should vote for the characters...

One thing that I don't like about CYL is when they show us the mid-event results... This change the real final results. I feel that both Veronica and Eliwood only won because of it.

He being a boring infantry sword unit didn't help him, though...

[Interdimensional Observer]

50 minutes ago, Dark Holy Elf said:

I love this VG.

Also nothing against Alm (I actually kinda like him) but him doing so badly in this kinda reveals that his CYL3 results were a bit of a fraud, which is what I had already strong suspected.

Or, it might have something to do with how his Brave turned out vis a vis the others. Sword Infantry are extremely numerous in this game. Camilla and Micaiah are much rarer unit types and were more likely to be have been picked as the free unit, or something people actively wanted to try summoning.

[Humanoid]

Yep, just as likely that people genuinely voted for Alm in CYL but when it came to picking their free unit took the pragmatic option choosing of the best available unit, and thus also went that way in VG for scoring reasons.

I'm fairly indifferent to all four winners this time around, but even if Alm was my favourite of the bunch, there was zero chance of me choosing him the moment the reveal happened. If I had my choice of any red CYL unit, I'd take a single merge to Roy over either Alm or Celica even though I have neither.

Maybe it's better to be in Marth's shoes at the moment because being made into a boring CYL unit means you're boring forever.

Edited September 2, 2019 by Humanoid

[Thinks Their Own Way]

1 hour ago, GrandeRampel said:

Camilla deserves to win just to get back to the people who were suspicious of her popularity not being legit. That she stole a Brave alt because of meme votes, or cheating, or fake accounts etc.

Character that consistently does well in popularity polls does when in... a "popularity poll". It's really not hard at all to connect the dots and anyone who ignores that willfully ignorant and only want conformation bias.

 

33 minutes ago, Dark Holy Elf said:

Also nothing against Alm (I actually kinda like him) but him doing so badly in this kinda reveals that his CYL3 results were a bit of a fraud, which is what I had already strong suspected.

I wouldn't say fraud, but more so people were really insistent that he should have an alt and now that said alt is here (I would argue is less impressive than his legendary alt)... less hype about him. Look at Leif in comparison from CYL 2 to CYL 3.

 

[Anacybele]

10 hours ago, XRay said:

For Ana, the impression she gives to many players is fuck the rules, it is my-way-or-the-highway sense of entitlement. Whether or not the hot potato element exists honestly does not matter. The only thing that matters is that her favorite characters win. If her favorite characters win, then it is fair; if her favorite character did not win, then it is not fair. If the game is presenting a challenge, the default response is complaining that the objective is too hard instead of approaching it from a different angle that is often times much easier. Switching strategies, using other characters, taking advantage of free and critical resources, etc. are unacceptable alternatives that she would only consider until the game practically forces her to do so.

I don't mean to drag this out or anything, and forgive me for being blunt, but...that is honestly a really really close-minded and childish view of me. And I just want to explain why as politely as I can. My favorite characters don't always have to win. I even said that if RD Ike just won one gauntlet, I'd be satisfied and won't care to have him in another. And I've joined character teams whom I'm not a fan of (like Eliwood in this gauntlet).

The only thing that really matters to me in a gauntlet is being able to join a team I wouldn't mind being on, whether it's a favorite character or not. And if it's a character I'm neutral on or whatever, I just care about the rewards, not winning or losing. I don't go around saying it's unfair if we lost all the time (...well, except for maybe the case of Takumi vs Shanna, because I still have no idea how that one's result happened).

Sure, I'm gonna root for my favorites and support them, and if they lost, I'll be disappointed. I'm disappointed Ike lost to a character I think is bad. Summer Frederick's narrow loss to Summer Gaius way back stung harder. But I'm not going to say it's unfair and that it's only fair if my favorites win. That's selfish. I've never said anything about it only being fair if my favorites win, so I have no idea where you got the idea that I think this way. Ike lost, that's that, even if it's disappointing. He could get another chance another day.

As for when I say a challenge is too hard, you clearly must miss other posts I've made where I said I gave these maps multiple attempts with different team setups and strategies. When I'm trying a bunch of stuff and still coming up with no results, then yeah, I'm going to want to give up and say it's too hard. Also, I shouldn't be forced to use characters I don't want to use. Would you want to be forced like that?

 

Edited September 2, 2019 by Anacybele

[NoirCore]

33 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

I don't mean to drag this out or anything, and forgive me for being blunt, but...that is honestly a really really close-minded and childish view of me. And I just want to explain why as politely as I can. My favorite characters don't always have to win. I even said that if RD Ike just won one gauntlet, I'd be satisfied and won't care to have him in another. And I've joined character teams whom I'm not a fan of (like Eliwood in this gauntlet).

The only thing that really matters to me in a gauntlet is being able to join a team I wouldn't mind being on, whether it's a favorite character or not. And if it's a character I'm neutral on or whatever, I just care about the rewards, not winning or losing. I don't go around saying it's unfair if we lost all the time (...well, except for maybe the case of Takumi vs Shanna, because I still have no idea how that one's result happened).

Sure, I'm gonna root for my favorites and support them, and if they lost, I'll be disappointed. I'm disappointed Ike lost to a character I think is bad. Summer Frederick's narrow loss to Summer Gaius way back stung harder. But I'm not going to say it's unfair and that it's only fair if my favorites win. That's selfish. I've never said anything about it only being fair if my favorites win, so I have no idea where you got the idea that I think this way. Ike lost, that's that, even if it's disappointing. He could get another chance another day.

The thing is that you said this...

On 8/31/2019 at 12:48 AM, Anacybele said:

Should've known better than to get my hopes up, I guess. Still feel Ike should've won, but nothing can change it. Don't know who did win other than Micaiah, so I don't know who to join now. I may not join anyone.

When you say "Ike should've won", you imply that he wasn't supposed to lose, at least with your words. What says Ike "should've" won? Your admiration for him? Your belief that he deserves more notoriety than Micaiah? If Ike had less points in the end, then he should've lost. Simple as that.

Bringing up Takumi vs. Shanna like it still is unfair is also not really doing you favors, especially when you once claimed IS rigged it for Shanna to win despite no evidence supporting such an idea.

I know you like RD Ike a lot, but to mostly everyone else, he's another Ike alt and it'd be less refreshing to see him win over Micaiah, and we can't sympathize. You wouldn't be happy with another Camilla winning, would you? Despite it essentially being the same logic over why you want Ike's buffer self to win to compliment his younger self's win? Like, whoever wins in the end should have won and will have won, but still.