Voting Gauntlet: Brave Rivalries! (August 29th)

[Ottservia]

If there’s one thing this topic has taught me is that you really should be careful with how you use your words. They can be powerful things and if used incorrectly can be used to give off impressions that you didn’t quite intend. 

[Anacybele]

7 minutes ago, NoirCore said:

When you say "Ike should've won", you imply that he wasn't supposed to lose, at least with your words. What says Ike "should've" won? Your admiration for him? Your belief that he deserves more notoriety than Micaiah? If Ike had less points in the end, then he should've lost. Simple as that.

Bringing up Takumi vs. Shanna like it still is unfair is also not really doing you favors, especially when you once claimed IS rigged it for Shanna to win despite no evidence supporting such an idea. 

That doesn't mean I think him losing is unfair. Just that I would've liked him to win instead.

I don't remember making a claim like that. And if I did, I don't know why I did. There's no reason for IS to want to rig a gauntlet. lol

8 minutes ago, NoirCore said:

I know you like RD Ike a lot, but to mostly everyone else, he's another Ike alt and it'd be less refreshing to see him win over Micaiah, and we can't sympathize. You wouldn't be happy with another Camilla winning, would you? Despite it essentially being the same logic over why you want Ike's buffer self to win to compliment his younger self's win? Like, whoever wins in the end should have won and will have won, but still.

RD Ike and PoR Ike are different game versions of Ike. No one version of Camilla is from a different game other than Fates. PoR Ike and RD Ike are more different from the various Camillas in that regard. And I mean, a lot of people like PoR Ike but also dislike his RD self because his writing wasn't as good or they don't care for muscles. And whoever likes one Camilla more or less likes them all because of lesser differences. So yeah.

[Diovani Bressan]

1 hour ago, Anacybele said:

That doesn't mean I think him losing is unfair. Just that I would've liked him to win instead.

I don't remember making a claim like that. And if I did, I don't know why I did. There's no reason for IS to want to rig a gauntlet. lol

I understand your point of view, and I believe that your words are true. But maybe the way you phrase your opinion is what make people see you in a different way.

"I would've liked him to win instead" is totally different from "I feel Ike should've won"

With "I feel Ike should've won", this words mean you are saying that he deserves more than the others, which is totally not true and unfair with the others 7 characters. And also, "I feel Ike should've won" sounds a little rude...

Maybe "I would prefer him to win"  or "I would like if Ike had won" would be a better reaction than "I feel him should've won".

[Anacybele]

Just now, Diovani Bressan said:

I understand your point of view, and I believe that your words are true. But maybe the way you phrase your opinion is what make people see you in a different way.

"I would've liked him to win instead" is totally different from "I feel Ike should've won"

With "I feel Ike should've won", this words mean you are saying that he deserves more than the others, which is totally not true and unfair with the others 7 characters. And also, "I feel Ike should've won" sounds a little rude...

Maybe "I would prefer him to win"  or "I would like if Ike had won" would be a better reaction than "I feel him should've won".

Well, I'm sorry if people take what I say the wrong way sometimes, but I can't do anything about that. I don't make them take it the wrong way.

[SockPuppet]

4 hours ago, Dark Holy Elf said:

I love this VG.

Also nothing against Alm (I actually kinda like him) but him doing so badly in this kinda reveals that his CYL3 results were a bit of a fraud, which is what I had already strong suspected.

I feel like a lot of Alm’s support kind of whithered away from the moment he won. At the time, he had 0 alts in the game and so many of us (such as myself) wanted him to win so he could finally have his theoretical first alt. Celica had 2, and I know many of us myself felt SoV was being underrated as a game at the time. Now, I personally have kind of forgotten all about Alm due to 3H being the “it” game. I also had 0 interest in choosing him as my free pick, despite campaigning so hard for him to win CYL3, because of his mundane weapon typing and his more interesting legendary form.

 

I also agree that showcasing the midway results kind of throw the rest of the ballot for a loop. Not that it is necessarily a bad thing, but I know I switched to voting for Anna once I saw how close she was last go-round. 

[Diovani Bressan]

1 minute ago, SockPuppet said:

I also agree that showcasing the midway results kind of throw the rest of the ballot for a loop. Not that it is necessarily a bad thing, but I know I switched to voting for Anna once I saw how close she was last go-round. 

I switched my votes for Veronica in CYL 2, so... yeah... I wonder how many slots Three Houses will take from CYL 4 next year...

[Jave]

For 3H in CYL4, I fully expect Edelgard and Claude to score Top 2 in their respective gender polls. Not sure on Dimitri and the Byleths. 

I could see Dorothea and Lysethia being Top 10. 

[Diovani Bressan]

3 minutes ago, Jave said:

For 3H in CYL4, I fully expect Edelgard and Claude to score Top 2 in their respective gender polls. Not sure on Dimitri and the Byleths. 

I could see Dorothea and Lysethia being Top 10. 

I can see both Claude and Dimitri in Top 2... I wouldn't be surprised... What about the Gatekeeper?

Edelgard in 1st place... that's easy to see, while Anna, Robin and Eirika kill themselves for the 2nd place, alongside with some 3H female characters.

[NoirCore]

1 hour ago, Anacybele said:

Well, I'm sorry if people take what I say the wrong way sometimes, but I can't do anything about that. I don't make them take it the wrong way.

You CAN do something about that, though. As Diovani said, watch your words. How you phrase things is an important part of how people react, so contrary to what you day, you DO have influence on how people take what you say.

"Man, sad to see that Ike lost" helps people take what you said the right way compared to "Ike should've won", which got you the reaction you did not desire of people thinking you believe characters deserve wins more than others in the past and earlier this thread.

Words and their implications are important, especially in writing.

[XRay]

3 hours ago, Anacybele said:

I don't mean to drag this out or anything, and forgive me for being blunt, but...that is honestly a really really close-minded and childish view of me. And I just want to explain why as politely as I can.

I know you do not mean to annoy and irritate other players, but you also need to realize your actions and words are often dismissive, hostile, and uncompromising. You might not think it offends other players, but that is how a lot of players feel when they perceive your actions and words. If you extend the same care and politeness you just showed towards me in countless other situations that were not favorable to you, it would not have ruffled other people's feathers.

It is okay to be disappointed that Ike lost. It is okay to voice your dislike of Micaiah once in while. It is not okay to put Ike on a pedestal at the expense of other characters and it is not okay to constantly bash favorite characters of other players.

How would you feel if players constantly talk trash about Ike the same way they talk about Camilla or Loki?

3 hours ago, Anacybele said:

As for when I say a challenge is too hard, you clearly must miss other posts I've made where I said I gave these maps multiple attempts with different team setups and strategies. When I'm trying a bunch of stuff and still coming up with no results, then yeah, I'm going to want to give up and say it's too hard. 

It took me about two dozen tries (probably more) to complete Abyssal using Celica with three Dancers/Singers. The first dozen or so tries involved me hammering the north as hard as I can and I tried to hold on to it. I realized it is not going to work out after over a dozen attempts, so instead of holding on to the north after I nuke it to oblivion, I went down south to secure and hold that area instead, and that took me about another dozen or so tries. If I was not so adamant about holding the north for some reason, it would have slashed my attempts by at least half. You have to accept that you are going to need to spend more effort and time on some maps than others.

Additionally, Enemy Phase teams are far trickier to use and they generally take a lot more attempts, at least in my opinion. You have to juggle HP management, make sure your units do not die from engaging multiple enemies when enemy range overlaps, worm your way out of tricky situations without Dancers/Singers, etc. If you are adamant about using Enemy Phase units, then you also have to accept that it is probably going to take far more work than a player using Player Phase units.

Even with a Player Phase team, it will take about a dozen or so tries once you figure out the general strategy unless you are really lucky and happen to stumble on the right process in the first few tries. After you figure out the general idea of tackling the map, you still have to find the right kill order and unit positions to manipulate the enemy to go a certain way.

3 hours ago, Anacybele said:

Also, I shouldn't be forced to use characters I don't want to use. Would you want to be forced like that?

I actually do not care about what my units look like. They are all just stats and skill to me. Sure, I still pull for waifus, but that is few and far between. I have no qualms about associating with characters I dislike either; I had no hesitation joining Surtr when he appeared in the Voting Gauntlet some time ago. However, I do have a preference for using Player Phase units.

This is where you need to learn to compromise or at least know what your ultimate priorities are. You need to learn to balance the following three things in Heroes, in games similar to Heroes, and probably in life in general too:

1) Getting the rewards/feeling accomplished/completing the game, etc.

2) Spend minimal time, effort, money, and/or whatever resource.

3) Do things your own way.

Out of the above three things, you can only pick two. The vast majority of players can only pick two. If you insist on doing things your way while still trying to get all the rewards, be prepared to sink a lot of time and effort because it will not be easy, especially you are also giving up on critical resources time to time. The only way you can potentially have all three is if you are a complete casual (so you do not care about rewards, ranking, etc.), if you are whale for whom resource is of no concern, if you have no preferred way of playing the game, etc.

If I can Player Phase my way through every mode using Firesweep archers, you bet I would Firesweep my way through every mode. However, that is not practical nor realistic. For slog fests like Rival Domains and Grand Conquest, it is far easier to just run an Enemy Phase dragon Brigade and have them bulldoze and devour the enemy. For Røkkr Sieges, it is far easier to use melee nukes instead of ranged nukes. For Aether Raids, I have to learn and incorporate Counter-Vantage, Galeforce, and super tank strategies into my repertoire of skills. For Arena Assault, I could have spent a lot less if I was not so adamant about incorporating at least 3 Firesweep nukes for every Blessing teams. In all these modes, I cannot solely rely on ranged Player Phase, and when I do want to use Firesweep, I had to spend quite a lot of Orbs.

[SockPuppet]

1 hour ago, Diovani Bressan said:

I can see both Claude and Dimitri in Top 2... I wouldn't be surprised... What about the Gatekeeper?

Edelgard in 1st place... that's easy to see, while Anna, Robin and Eirika kill themselves for the 2nd place, alongside with some 3H female characters.

That will definitely be the case for the men’s division. Poor Marth 😞

[Ice Dragon]

Micaiah v. Camilla is nice. I'm satisfied with either team winning.

 

17 hours ago, XRay said:

Many of us do like a 45-hour long self validation, but many of us also do not go bashing on characters we did not support. We are unsatisfied with the pseudo-popularity contest, but that does not mean we did not think characters who won with the new rule did not deserve it. We have a problem with the new rule, not the winners. There is different between saying a rule sucks and a winner sucks.

Do people like a 45-hour-long pat on the back? Sure. Is it engaging? No.

The problem with saying that the rule sucks is that I've yet to see an argument any better than "it allows undeserving characters to win" or "it turns the competition into a coin toss". The former is predicated on the fact that they want it to be a popularity contest again and turn the game mode back into a 45-hour-long pat on the back, and the latter is blatantly false and stems from ignorance of mathematics and/or statistics (the last time I saw a coin toss not be roughly 50-50, someone was cheating).

If someone can present a better argument, I'm all ears, but I've yet to hear one.

I'm not sure why you keep bringing up Ana because my argument has nothing to do with her.

[Zelgius]

I finally managed to catch a Micaiah multiplier there, that was my first of this VG. 

[XRay]

15 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

Do people like a 45-hour-long pat on the back? Sure. Is it engaging? No.

The problem with saying that the rule sucks is that I've yet to see an argument any better than "it allows undeserving characters to win" or "it turns the competition into a coin toss". The former is predicated on the fact that they want it to be a popularity contest again and turn the game mode back into a 45-hour-long pat on the back, and the latter is blatantly false and stems from ignorance of mathematics and/or statistics (the last time I saw a coin toss not be roughly 50-50, someone was cheating).

 If someone can present a better argument, I'm all ears, but I've yet to hear one.

I'm not sure why you keep bringing up Ana because my argument has nothing to do with her.

The point of Vax's and Ana's argument is ultimately about whether a character deserves to win, regardless of what the rules are. The hot potato element is not really the main point, and it was used as a supporting argument for whether a character deserves a win or not. Regardless of what our feelings about the hot potato element, the main point Vax and others are arguing is that all characters who won deserve their win. It does not matter whether we like the rule or not, what matters is that we acknowledge that all past winners won fair and square.

As for whether a mode needs to be engaging, I am not sure it needs to be. Lost Lore is like the perfect example where an unengaging mode can still be worth playing. You just drop in and leave and you do not even need to battle. For players who do not like rhythm games, Tap Battle is not even remotely engaging when you can just spam taps away. 90% of all quests we receive are also non-engaging as it is either doing really brain dead tasks like Stratum quests or quests that tells us to do something we are already incentivised to do, such as the Arena Assault and Allegiance Battle quests.

[Mercakete]

... Wow. I didn't think it'd come to my least favorites...though I suppose I should've known, heheh. Okay. Joining the lesser of 2 evils: Camilla.

Edit to avoid double posting: Man, everyone I've supported has been fighting Micaiah. I've done what I can. Let's see what happens next!

Edited September 3, 2019 by Mercakete

[Ginko]

Micaiah lead with 10 thousand millions right now?

Geez, I think Micaiah won't get anymore multiplier and may lose...

Edited September 4, 2019 by Ginko

[Venmi]

9 minutes ago, Ginko said:

Micaiah lead with 10 thousand millions right now?

Geez, I think Micaiah won't get anymore multiplier and may lose...

Oh, shoot...  I forgot about that and just dumped my flags on the multiplier.  Still hoping she pulls through!

[Ginko]

1 minute ago, Venmi said:

Oh, shoot...  I forgot about that and just dumped my flags on the multiplier.  Still hoping she pulls through!

Don't sweet it, I knew most of us dump 800 flags last hour so the score soar up.

I only have 820 flags left with 8 ballots.

If we can get at least one more multiplier, I will gladly do it.

[Icelerate]

Anyone who wants Micaiah to win, don't play until the final hour. By not playing until the final hour, we can let Camilla surpass us in score so that we can get the final multiplier or at least prevent Camilla from getting it. 

[Ginko]

Now, I'm pretty sure Camilla will get the final multiplier anyways after seeing current score.

The question is Micaiah have the potential to defend it and brute force win?

Edited September 4, 2019 by Ginko

[Jave]

Yeah, looks like Camilla's winning. Last hour multiplier will work for her.

Still, I don't mind losing to her. She had a big following and the sole fact Miccy made it to the final is good enough for me.

[Xenomata]

Hey I actually remembered to use my flags this time!

I still have 350 left and can't use anymore due to lack of ballots, but I'd rather have 350 left over than 2,000+ because I was working during the final hour, or fell asleep during the final hour, or because I was making dinner during the final hour, etc etc. These are actual reasons I forgot to use my flags before the final hour.

[Troykv]

I'm hearing a sad melody in my mind.

 

I'll soar away (?)

Edited September 4, 2019 by Troykv

[trainer_derp]

Camilla won. Oh well.

[Xenomata]

Oh wow, that score is remarkably close for a VG final round.

Usually the difference is astronomically large.