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Who else thinks Sylvain is awesome? (minor spoilers)

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30 minutes ago, Etheus said:

Sylvain may have his reasons, but he's also a grade A douchebag.

He comes off as a douche for the cheating thing, yeah. But it isn't like he doesn't notice that. He knows it's wrong and he even legit says he hates seeing women cry. He doesn't enjoy acting this way. If he did, THAT would really make him a douche. I believe after what I learned in the A support, his "cheating" is a defense mechanism and the only one he knows to use because he's afraid to get serious. When he tried breaking up with a girl, she still felt hurt. No matter what he does, he's hurting someone, all because of his own inner conflict and fear. And another thing, he mentioned that his parents would likely throw him into an arranged marriage that he'll be miserable in. Another reason he's afraid of commitment, because his parents could have a different partner in mind for him when he was picking one himself and that could get really messy.

In short, Sylvain has a complicated issue where he's interested in girls and all, but at the same time, is afraid of commitment to one due to his messy society. It's resulted in this cheating defense mechanism that he uses to cope and is the only way he ever knew how to cope. The A support has Sylvain learn that there are better ways. He literally thanks Byleth for showing him that there are better ways to live and do things. "Thank you, from the bottom of my heart." His words exactly.

Also, at least he learns at all. He also would definitely be a douche if he didn't bother to change that cheating thing.

Oh, I forgot another thing I love about Sylvain! His eyes! I noticed at one point that they're golden and that's one of my favorite eye colors. I can't quit looking into his eyes a lot now, and honestly, his expression in general at the tea table is just so amazing. He's got a really great smile and everything! ^^

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At first I hated him simply because of how they pronounce "Gautier" in the game (where I'm from it's "go-shay", and I cringe when I hear it mispronounced). I mainly recruited him to BE because I wanted him for the Miklan quest; I thought it would be funny to have him fight his brother. In retrospect, man was I wrong. After getting to know him better he's become one of my favorites because...

17 hours ago, eclipse said:

He knows his value is tied to his Crest.  That's why he asks himself whether he's worth anything - it was a literal accident of birth, but he was lucky. . .his brother, not so much.  IMO, he's a reflection of his society, and it's a mess.

16 hours ago, Anacybele said:

Yep, exactly what I saw from him too, and it's why I feel so sorry for him and want to hug him. I thought he might be just a mean serial cheater at first as mentioned above, but then I realized he's not doing it to be an asshat. He just feels that if he tries to stick with one girl, he'll get hurt in the end because she just wants in his pants for his crest and nothing else. In fact, you could say he has low self-esteem because he feels he's only worth anything for his crest. He's worthless otherwise, in his mind. 😞

You're not worthless to me, Sylvain! Screw the crest. xP

I felt sorry for the guy, feeling like he was blessed with a curse. I'm glad I recruited him, even more-so  since I've taken the BE route. Maybe, hopefully, once it's all over he'll realize he's more than just a crest.

I think my only complaint now is I couldn't support him with Ferdinand. I just wanted them to be Cav bros. 😢

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8 minutes ago, Byrdsfly said:

I felt sorry for the guy, feeling like he was blessed with a curse. I'm glad I recruited him, even more-so  since I've taken the BE route. Maybe, hopefully, once it's all over he'll realize he's more than just a crest.

Yeah, I'm so glad I did too! I did because I knew he was a skirt-chaser and I always seem to like them to some degree, and sometimes love them (as with Sain). Little did I know he'd become my favorite womanizer!

Just gonna put this here.

Spoiler

tumblr_pwr5wpOsmX1vh2t3vo5_400.png

ECUXj1xU4AE7sH_.jpg

Spoilered because it's time-skip Sylvain. I. Just. Love. That. Smile. ❤️ Man, how does this face of his alone not get girls drawn to him, rather than some crest?

(these aren't my shots, btw, I found these online. I so should have taken one myself though!)

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1 hour ago, Byrdsfly said:

At first I hated him simply because of how they pronounce "Gautier" in the game (where I'm from it's "go-shay", and I cringe when I hear it mispronounced).

I'm pretty sure it's french, so it's almost right the way they say it in the game. The "a" is a bit too open though, it should be more of an "o" sound. Don't really know how to write it in english, but think of the word "eau" (water) in french. The last part is definitely right though, I'm curious now, what language pronounces that "shay"?

That said, on the topic at hand, I like Sylvain in the academy phase, he fits in (and he looks better imo), but I wish he grew up a bit more in the timeskip. Not talking appearence here, just personality wise. Iit's a war, some of his lines are completely out of place, and it's even worse when he does actually say relevant stuff, because it seems like he switches between two characters and attitudes at will. I was hoping he'd have more of a "difficult" timeskip and a stronger opinion on things, what with the Kingdom's situation, Gautier position, and Edelgard's advance on the crest system (regardless of route). Not a fan of the voice either.

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6 hours ago, timon said:

I'm pretty sure it's french, so it's almost right the way they say it in the game. The "a" is a bit too open though, it should be more of an "o" sound. Don't really know how to write it in english, but think of the word "eau" (water) in french. The last part is definitely right though, I'm curious now, what language pronounces that "shay"?

I grew up in coastal Mississippi, which has some strong French roots (among others). Between the town Gautier and the Gautier family, I'm just used to it being pronounced "Go-shay". I'm not at all surprised that the pronunciation has changed from it's original French though. Heck, I didn't even know it wasn't the French pronunciation until just a little bit earlier today. 😅

 

7 hours ago, timon said:

I was hoping he'd have more of a "difficult" timeskip and a stronger opinion on things, what with the Kingdom's situation, Gautier position, and Edelgard's advance on the crest system (regardless of route)

I was especially hoping he'd have more of a response to her plans with the crest system. Definitely wishful thinking, but I hope they add in some Sylvain/Edelgard supports to that effect. Yeah, some would probably be blocked till you go the BE route, but there are supports with Lysithea so... why not Sylvain?

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Gonna have to agree with the others that he is really a douchebag; having a depressing, messed-up past doesn't excuse constantly cheating on people and threatening to kill your professor. Similarly, the "I hate seeing women cry" thing sounded pretty insincere when he doesn't make any effort, to, you know, not make women cry. It would have been nicer if we at least saw him trying to stop his bad behaviours...

I will say, though, that his character is a nice reflection of Fodlan's society. And yes, he's pretty attractive.

 

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On 8/27/2019 at 5:34 AM, lazu said:

I will say, though, that his character is a nice reflection of Fodlan's society. And yes, he's pretty attractive.

Gotta say that even if Sylvain's not a good person in a vacuum, he's great because he shows off Fodlan's flaws.

Get to the root of his massive insecurity, and the behavior will stop.

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He's pretty fucked up for pretty much emotionally manipulating women, even if his reasoning of them only wanting him for his crest is probably true. But his experiences with women and his brother show how the Crests corrupt the mentality of those born both with and without one, tears families apart, and, like a lot of other characters, he gets better in supports. I especially liked his supports with Dorothea, and his BL ending with Felix is really cute. In the former they both find a deeper connection than they thought possible, and in the latter as well with the bonus of making me see his whole character a looot differently.

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On 8/27/2019 at 5:34 AM, lazu said:
On 8/27/2019 at 11:34 AM, lazu said:

I will say, though, that his character is a nice reflection of Fodlan's society. And yes, he's pretty attractive.

 

12 hours ago, eclipse said:
5 hours ago, eclipse said:

Gotta say that even if Sylvain's not a good person in a vacuum, he's great because he shows off Fodlan's flaws.

 

7 hours ago, Book Bro said:

But his experiences with women and his brother show how the Crests corrupt the mentality of those born both with and without one, tears families apart, and, like a lot of other characters, he gets better in supports.

Edelgard was indeed right.

The Crests are to blame!

Edited by eclipse
So people can quote this

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I feel sorry for Sylvain (it sucks to not be able to read if people genuinely care for you or it's just a way to gain access to resources), but he is also abhorrent for his behavior toward women (even if it is a defense mechanism). His beefs about Fodlan society are justified but he is suuuper privileged within that structure (and in one support, he even acknowledges that his brother had a way worse life. Mercedes?). His behavior is very bratty and reactionary.

I think a lot of his supports are really nice; I really liked Mercedes' because you really get down to what he stands for and she is able to carve back a lot of his nonsense. In many of the other supports, he seems to be incapable of actually being sincere towards women in normal conversation and even when he tries (Lys B support) he fails at it. I think that is why they chose to give him a lot of B supports; he's just not that great at genuine interaction with women because of his poisonous relationship with them. Also, post-timeskip he seems to be fairly depressive and uninterested in much of anything; he is tending that way pre- but he seems even less engaged/motivated post-.

With that being said, I think Edelgard/Sylvain would have been an excellent support because they align so much on core values.

And man does he sparkle in some of his scenes. Even if he's probably faking it.

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7 minutes ago, Ciato said:

 His beefs about Fodlan society are justified but he is suuuper privileged within that structure (and in one support, he even acknowledges that his brother had a way worse life. Mercedes?). His behavior is very bratty and reactionary.

Thing is, he’s very much aware that he lives a privileged life and he hates how much he understands that he’s privileged. He has to live with the constant reality that his privileged life is only because of his crest. His brother is living proof that his parents would not love if he didn’t have a crest.

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1 hour ago, Book Bro said:

his BL ending with Felix is really cute.

...He has a paired ending with Felix? Even though Sylvain only ever shows romantic interest in girls? Wtf...? Is this more pandering to the crowd that wants more gay/bi characters? (Not that I'm against having fictional characters who are gay/lesbian/bi, I just don't like it when it's forced somewhere where it doesn't belong. People should create characters that happen to be gay and lesbian and all. Not force it on a character just for the sake of it, especially if said character is already established to be straight like Sylvain.)

This does explain why I've seen pairing art of those two though.

On another note, I finally made Sylvain a Great Knight! He's going to be epic as this class with his crazy Atk and Def.

Edited by Anacybele

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3H tends to have depth on their characters and Sylvain is no exception for it, so I could appreciate the team in that regard.

Regarding his amount of B supports, I’ve seen people saying that he should get A support with Marianne, which kind of makes sense considering both of their lives are deeply affected by Crests(albeit for different reasons). While I do agree there’s a potential for their A support, I feel like the reason might be more rooted towards Marianne than Sylvain himself, in a way.

In the B support, he understood her issues stemmed from Crests, which is something that could definitely be expanded upon(and she’s definitely not the kind of person who sees people for their Crests since she sees more of it affecting herself than others, so Sylvain doesn’t have any excuses here), but Marianne already had Ashe and Dimitri as her A options(the former is a nice person overall, and the latter bonds over their personal traumas).

Edited by singularity

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2 hours ago, Anacybele said:

...He has a paired ending with Felix? Even though Sylvain only ever shows romantic interest in girls? Wtf...? Is this more pandering to the crowd that wants more gay/bi characters? (Not that I'm against having fictional characters who are gay/lesbian/bi, I just don't like it when it's forced somewhere where it doesn't belong. People should create characters that happen to be gay and lesbian and all. Not force it on a character just for the sake of it, especially if said character is already established to be straight like Sylvain.)

 

I don't want to read too much into author intent here, but Sylvain does not really like women on a personal level very much, as demonstrated over and over throughout his support list. His 'love for women' is a front for his deep-seated issues with women and society at large. It is not a stretch based on his development that he could potentially conclude that he would prefer Felix (who really gets him on a personal level) over his shallow pursuit of women. (Or not, depending on your ending!)

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59 minutes ago, Ciato said:

I don't want to read too much into author intent here, but Sylvain does not really like women on a personal level very much, as demonstrated over and over throughout his support list. His 'love for women' is a front for his deep-seated issues with women and society at large. It is not a stretch based on his development that he could potentially conclude that he would prefer Felix (who really gets him on a personal level) over his shallow pursuit of women. (Or not, depending on your ending!)

Yeah, because he's afraid to get personal with one, not because he isn't interested in them sexually/romantically. He wouldn't be flirting with them or anything if he didn't have some attraction to women.

That's Sylvain's mental problem. He's attracted to them and so he can't help flirting, but then after a little while, that flight reaction happens and he dashes off to another girl because he's afraid to go any further than a little flirting and one date or two. It's a sad inner conflict that results in his poor behavior, which has been caused by his hatred of his society. His behavior is inexcusable, but you can understand why he ended up this way, which is why I feel sorry for him and believe he has a good heart deep down. Basically, a kind of extreme case of his heart being in the right place, but not his head. He wishes things could be different for him, but doesn't know if they can be and just...yeah.

If he was also attracted to guys, wouldn't he be doing the same thing with them that he's done to women? I think he would. But he doesn't flirt with one even once.

Oh yeah, and he has endings with females anyway, not even just Byleth. I've noticed he can have one with Ingrid too.

Anyway, to lighten things up in here, I actually took my own screenshot!

Spoiler

EDHFMANVAAAIoQQ?format=jpg&name=large

Spoiler'd again because it's timeskip Sylvain again. This look of his has grown on me a lot now, I like it more than his pre-timeskip version! The armor he's wearing makes him look tough and strong. Btw, this is a birthday tea party I gave him! I like how the tea table changed when I got a higher support level with him. The cup and pot are much more detailed and that snack rack got a lot more added to it. I think the table cloth changed too.

Oh, also, holy shit he puts the Great in Great Knight. He took zero damage from everything that wasn't magic! His defense is insane! And he was also fast enough to double several enemies while already hitting like a truck with just ONE strike. Jesus Christ, dude. XD

Edited by Anacybele

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3 hours ago, Anacybele said:

...He has a paired ending with Felix? Even though Sylvain only ever shows romantic interest in girls? Wtf...? Is this more pandering to the crowd that wants more gay/bi characters? (Not that I'm against having fictional characters who are gay/lesbian/bi, I just don't like it when it's forced somewhere where it doesn't belong. People should create characters that happen to be gay and lesbian and all. Not force it on a character just for the sake of it, especially if said character is already established to be straight like Sylvain.)

This does explain why I've seen pairing art of those two though.

On another note, I finally made Sylvain a Great Knight! He's going to be epic as this class with his crazy Atk and Def.

He does and no it's not pandering, not sure why it's your first thought. A lot of the characters in this game have endings with same sex partners that range from friendly to romantic, even some that can't S rank same sex Byleth. It's actually refreshing to see.

The supports with Felix at first kind of seem like it could just be a one way crush that Felix has but then naturally develop their relationship and Sylvain is actually the first one to make a move that could be seen as romantic, but in a much more heartfelt way than he ever does with a woman. And the ending text makes it pretty clear that they felt very strongly about each other. Seeing how his whole thing is that he was made heir to his house over his older brother because of his crest, I thought it was interesting that he has an ending where he doesnt marry or have kids but instead has a pretty intense lifelong thing with his childhood best friend. It makes the womanizing thing look like an act he took to the extreme because of the pressure of being the only legitimate heir to his family and having to pass on his crest and name, but with Felix he finally chooses to completely break free of that obligation and just lives how he wants. That's not to say his endings with women are lesser or anything, like I said I like his supports with Dorothea, but having a romantic ending with a man just adds an interesting layer to his character.

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6 hours ago, Anacybele said:

...He has a paired ending with Felix? Even though Sylvain only ever shows romantic interest in girls? Wtf...? Is this more pandering to the crowd that wants more gay/bi characters? (Not that I'm against having fictional characters who are gay/lesbian/bi, I just don't like it when it's forced somewhere where it doesn't belong. People should create characters that happen to be gay and lesbian and all. Not force it on a character just for the sake of it, especially if said character is already established to be straight like Sylvain.)

This does explain why I've seen pairing art of those two though.

On another note, I finally made Sylvain a Great Knight! He's going to be epic as this class with his crazy Atk and Def.

Every support that reaches A rank is a paired ending, there are numerous girl-girl and male-male paired endings, its only paired endings with Byleth that are guranteed to end up as explicitly romantic barring Alois and Gustave which stand as the only S ranks not to be romantic, apparently. This is another classic Fire Emblem, before every pairing needed a baby to pop out.

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2 hours ago, Anacybele said:

Yeah, because he's afraid to get personal with one, not because he isn't interested in them sexually/romantically. He wouldn't be flirting with them or anything if he didn't have some attraction to women.

That's Sylvain's mental problem. He's attracted to them and so he can't help flirting, but then after a little while, that flight reaction happens and he dashes off to another girl because he's afraid to go any further than a little flirting and one date or two. 

If he was also attracted to guys, wouldn't he be doing the same thing with them that he's done to women? I think he would. But he doesn't flirt with one even once.

It's even mentioned in one of his supports (BL route) that he basically 'hates women' in the way he views and treats them. He's not afraid to get personal with one, he doesn't view women with wanting to get personal with him. A lot of his supports talk about the fact he thinks women are using him, and so in turn he uses them back. He knows they don't care about him. It's not him having a 'flight reaction', it's him being cynical and mocking the world around him.

Furthermore, why would he act that way with guys? His entire issue (plus basically anyone with a crest) is the fact they have to reproduceCan Sylvain reproduce with men? No. So why would he treat them the same way as he treats women? He treats women that way because he thinks they all see him as a way to make "crest babies" as he says in one of his supports. A guy would never be interested in that, so there would be no need for Sylvain to shamelessly flirt or treat them the way he does women, because he can always be himself around guys.

I think his paired ending with Felix can easily be romantic or platonic depending on how you read it, but it does make sense that the notorious skirt-chaser only doing it out of mockery of a society he hates, would end up wanting to settle down with someone who he can be himself with. If he never learned how to actually act around women, it makes sense to reason that he would eventually want someone he could be himself around, which would be other guys. That so happens to be Felix, a childhood friend. But it's not very logical to suggest he would treat guys and girls the same considering the wealth of backstory and characterization they gave him. 

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10 hours ago, Anacybele said:

...He has a paired ending with Felix? Even though Sylvain only ever shows romantic interest in girls? Wtf...? Is this more pandering to the crowd that wants more gay/bi characters? (Not that I'm against having fictional characters who are gay/lesbian/bi, I just don't like it when it's forced somewhere where it doesn't belong. People should create characters that happen to be gay and lesbian and all. Not force it on a character just for the sake of it, especially if said character is already established to be straight like Sylvain.)

This does explain why I've seen pairing art of those two though.

On another note, I finally made Sylvain a Great Knight! He's going to be epic as this class with his crazy Atk and Def.

Theres probably only like 2 'gay' pairings in this game so you can chill. JRPGs arent exactly known for handling LGBT issues well anyways.

And no, felix and sylvains ending is not a romantic one.

Edited by Eltoshen

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1 hour ago, Eltoshen said:

And no, felix and sylvains ending is not a romantic one.

I mean they

Literally die on the same day because they care so much for each other they can't live without the other 

That seems like more than friends to me, at least it's meant to be open to interpretation.

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27 minutes ago, Book Bro said:

I mean they

 

  Hide contents

 

Literally die on the same day because they care so much for each other they can't live without the other 

 

That seems like more than friends to me, at least it's meant to be open to interpretation.

 

Yeah, I don't remember the specifics of how it was worded but you could make that argument.

I personally don't believe that love always has to be romantic.

Edited by Eltoshen

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On 8/25/2019 at 2:58 PM, Etheus said:

I feel like he should have an A support with Leonie.

or Marianne. Hands down that is one of my favourite supports either. (i'm playing this for the 4th time lol so i am basically skipping most supports now - but Marianne + Sylvains are some of the only ones i'll watch. the way he teaches her how to smile - heartmeltingly sweet. the fact it stops at B is like. "are you kidding me?"


I love Sylvain - all his warts and all -and i think he's written (Like the majority of the characters) a very broken/depressed even character who grows through his time at the academy and what not. I feel unlike Ferdinand and Lorenz (who are skirt chasers - Ferdinand... i don't really ... see it? and Lorenz is flat out hunting for a wife), I do get the idea that Sylvain just loves flirting. (see Ingrid + Sylvain's C Support) He even flirts with a lot of his girl-friends, because that's just his inane nature. (I have some guy friends who are like that) - so unless they flat out see you as a little sister, not "feminine/BFF" (which for some girls (See Leonie C Support) can also take as kind of insult because HELLOO, we're still GIRLS!!), or what not - he's basically going to try to melt the panties, with a wink and a smile. (and I feel despite his comments (See Byleth C support), crest or not, I think that's how he was always going to be). 

The Heartbreaking (even douchebag-y part) is that having that having that mentality - wrapped up in the fact the only reason why people will love you is because he's special - is what makes a lot of his flirting/behaviour so off putting - but also so incredibly sad. I mean if you are growing up basically being hated by one person who should love you (Brother chapter 5(?), The Forgotten), wondering your entire life, if your parents would love you if you didn't have a crest, probably being it drummed into your head that "Crests is the only thing of value to you thus that's what people want from you) - I don't blame him from getting to the age of 17 - and thinking this is my life. I'm not gonna get to be happy, i'm gonna be forced to marry someone who wants me to make them rich and powerful too this completely sucks, and thus I'm going to hurt them first, before they hurt me first. Which is a normal response for the most part. 
(sad. douchey. but legit honest because I think we all of that mentality, it just might not manifest in being all manwhore-y and dismissive). 

Which is why - actually his time in the monastery is the best thing for him. 

He learns that like none of the other noble girls give too poops about their crests or his. 
other people hate their crests anyway (Marianne)
that he has value outside of his crest and people care about HIM. 


And i love that most of his paired supports are of the nature that 

Spoiler

98 percent of the time he gets married has a litter of children, and his oldest child generally has no crest, but they are all treated equally. it was a given considering his past, but he finds love, has children, and he breaks the Gauthier cycle, which is something at 17 he never thought was a possibility for him.

In with regards to his B Support with Byleth. i think that's a candid moment with his friend/mentor and shows how broken he is (which is similar to the Bernadetta B support, and I think a few others that really crack open the whole "this is really what makes me tick as a human being, and why i am the way i am." - Ingrid come to mind, but i think Felix is A?),  - it really threw me off that Sylvain would threaten Byleth like that, and i do actually appreciate it that neither he or Byleth play it off like a joke in other conversations. 

I actually S Supported Byleth/Sylvain in the Crimson Flower path (I was going to marry him in GD and BL, but Claude and Dimitri well are Claude and Dimitri 😄 ), but the S Support really showed the growth he had from the start - but a little bit of what I said at the beginning - at his core - a smooth talking ladies man.... but one who would dedicate his life on making the woman he loves happy. which is all due to his experiences. it's a great character arc. 

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