Class Mastery guide/tier list

[Tables]

A few observations from my current (NG+) Maddening playthrough on CF:

1) Poison Strike only deals 10% of max HP to beast type enemies, rather than the usual 20% (rounded down in both cases). This I feel drops its value a lot - the one big strength it was argued to rise placement on was that beast damage, after all, and beasts tend to be easy to deal high damage to for various reasons, so 10% of max HP doesn't seem all that impressive in most cases to me. Nice but definitely on the weaker end.

2) You can't steal sacred/relic items, like the Ochain shield, Seiros Shield and others. Was majorly disappointed to find this - @Sillyposted a pretty interesting looking list of steals including a variety of them, but if you can't even steal those then the list becomes way less good. Not to mention I had to feed Assassin Petra (80% growth) Speedwings so she was fast enough to even attempt to steal from some of these enemies, that's how ridiculous their speed is. Steal is already pretty low down on the list though, it probably doesn't need to go further, but yeah - stealing is really not very helpful in this game.

[Dark Holy Elf]

Here is Silly's list updated with the unique gear removed:

On 10/28/2019 at 6:34 AM, Silly said:

I went through and wrote down the enemies with decent stealable items.

All Routes:
Ch6 Priest (Magic Staff): 17 Speed
Ch7 Dimitri (Evasion Ring): 22 Speed
Ch7 Claude (Evasion Ring): 24 Speed

SS:
Ch 15 Gwendal (Lampos Shield): 6 Speed
Ch 16 Ladislava (Aurora Shield): 38 Speed 

CF:
Ch 14 Lysithea (Master Seal): 31 Speed
Ch 14 Hilda (Accuracy Ring): 32 Speed
Edelgard Paralogue Wyvern Lord (Energy Drop): 34 Speed
Edelgard Paralogue Nader (Aurora Shield): 42 Speed

No data on other routes, but I'm positive that AM has Ladislava as well, and pretty sure that Dimitri's Paralogue has a stealable Energy Drop on a Paladin (realistic) + Angelic Robe on a War Master (a million AS).

Can add that Lorenz (AM/SS... I forget if his VW stand-in has it too) has a Master Seal off the top of my head, probably others. (Keep in mind that you always fight Lorenz on those routes, even if you rightly recruited him for Thyrsus.) And Edelgard has an Accuracy Ring in Chapter 7 for BL/GD.

On Hard I considered the Aurora Shields the best prizes, but those speed benchmarks are brutal on Maddening. The Evasion Rings are IMO the next best prizes, and those speed benchmarks are only moderately brutal (Thief Petra with Speed+2 hits the number for Dimitri around Level ~14, if you want to sacrifice a less valuable combat unit to Thief the requirements of level or stat boosters get higher). Accuracy Ring is pretty cool too, and not super-difficult to get.

Edited December 15, 2019 by Dark Holy Elf

[Shanty Pete's 1st Mate]

Love the list! I generally agree, but would make the following changes:

War Master down to Upper-Mid. It's great, both in skill and art, but comes super late.

Archer to High tier: 100 hit rates are rare in 3H (especially on physical weaponry), and +20 hit is a great remedial tool, like hit-boosting battalions. Especially since it makes up for the ranged hit loss.

Mercenary, Warrior, and Wyvern Lord down to Lower-Mid: This may be too personal, but I've never been keen on skills that demand keeping your HP low. You can kill more easily, sure, but you put yourself at a higher risk of death. Arguably Wyvern Lord should fall harder, for taking so long to get.

Bishop, Dark Bishop, Grappler up to Upper-Mid: First two have very similar rationales, namely that passive self-healing is always welcome (assuming you're not employing an aforementioned low-HP strategy). Keep in mind, healers not named Mercedes are harder to heal for, because they're the ones doing the healing. Grappler, meanwhile, gets a good skill (gauntlets are accurate, sure, but +20 hit means hitting even on terrain, or with stronger less-accurate ones; also less susceptible to siege spells) and a great combat art.

Armor Knight up to Low-Mid: Armored Blow is easily worse than Darting/Death/Fiendish Blow, but it's very reachable, and taking 6 (or 12) less damage is nothing to sneeze at.

Swap Lord (up to Low) and Mortal Savant (down to Bottom): Res +2 is like a one-third effective Warding Blow... that you get for much longer... and that also works on enemy phase? Let's call 'em even. Lord gets the slight tip for Subdue, which isn't great, but a situational option. Both masteries are bad, but Lord gives a smidge more, IMO.

[Shadow Mir]

10 hours ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

Bishop, Dark Bishop, Grappler up to Upper-Mid: First two have very similar rationales, namely that passive self-healing is always welcome (assuming you're not employing an aforementioned low-HP strategy). Keep in mind, healers not named Mercedes are harder to heal for, because they're the ones doing the healing. Grappler, meanwhile, gets a good skill (gauntlets are accurate, sure, but +20 hit means hitting even on terrain, or with stronger less-accurate ones; also less susceptible to siege spells) and a great combat art.

I would disagree with you on Dark Bishop for reasons I mentioned earlier in this thread (ergo, you have to steal from or defeat the Death Knight at least twice [at least if you're not going to Crimson Flower] because you need to qualify for Dark Mage before you can access Dark Bishop). For how much trouble that is to accomplish, Lifetaker isn't that great, especially since it got nerfed and now needs you to kill enemies while they're healthy to get much healing. I seriously doubt that'll happen much on Maddening. . .

[Shanty Pete's 1st Mate]

2 hours ago, Shadow Mir said:

I would disagree with you on Dark Bishop for reasons I mentioned earlier in this thread (ergo, you have to steal from or defeat the Death Knight at least twice [at least if you're not going to Crimson Flower] because you need to qualify for Dark Mage before you can access Dark Bishop). For how much trouble that is to accomplish, Lifetaker isn't that great, especially since it got nerfed and now needs you to kill enemies while they're healthy to get much healing. I seriously doubt that'll happen much on Maddening. . .

Fair point. My counter-argument, though, is this: Dark Seals are basically "free" since usually, there's only one unit who wants to use them (versus traditional seals, which everyone is competing for). Beating the Death Knight is tricky, but is very much do-able on at least 2 of the first 4 appearances (especially if you get early Lance of Ruin through Sylvain). And in CF, as you said, you only need to kill/rob him once. It's probably trickiest if you're playing SS with male Byleth (no early Lysithea, no early Lance of Ruin, no free seal post-skip).

As for usefulness, it can vary. It'll probably only activate against already-weakened foes, barring a crit. Still, with the right setup (high-might spell, backed by Fiendish Blow, against a somewhat weakened foe), it can save you a heal. Foes can be weakened by bow hits, other mages, or secondary gambit damage. Hm... the more I talk about it, the more niche it sounds. I'll have to assess how often it actually activates in my current playthrough, so I can make a fair judgement. 

[Shadow Mir]

On 12/15/2019 at 9:24 AM, Dark Holy Elf said:

Here is Silly's list updated with the unique gear removed:

Can add that Lorenz (AM/SS... I forget if his VW stand-in has it too) has a Master Seal off the top of my head, probably others. (Keep in mind that you always fight Lorenz on those routes, even if you rightly recruited him for Thyrsus.) And Edelgard has an Accuracy Ring in Chapter 7 for BL/GD.

On Hard I considered the Aurora Shields the best prizes, but those speed benchmarks are brutal on Maddening. The Evasion Rings are IMO the next best prizes, and those speed benchmarks are only moderately brutal (Thief Petra with Speed+2 hits the number for Dimitri around Level ~14, if you want to sacrifice a less valuable combat unit to Thief the requirements of level or stat boosters get higher). Accuracy Ring is pretty cool too, and not super-difficult to get.

Likewise, Claude's paralogue has a Goddess Icon, Energy Drop and Angelic Robe for stealing and chapter 17 in AM and VW has Master Seals for stealing off the bosses. Don't know how feasible stealing those is in Maddening, though...

2 hours ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

Fair point. My counter-argument, though, is this: Dark Seals are basically "free" since usually, there's only one unit who wants to use them (versus traditional seals, which everyone is competing for). Beating the Death Knight is tricky, but is very much do-able on at least 2 of the first 4 appearances (especially if you get early Lance of Ruin through Sylvain). And in CF, as you said, you only need to kill/rob him once. It's probably trickiest if you're playing SS with male Byleth (no early Lysithea, no early Lance of Ruin, no free seal post-skip).

As for usefulness, it can vary. It'll probably only activate against already-weakened foes, barring a crit. Still, with the right setup (high-might spell, backed by Fiendish Blow, against a somewhat weakened foe), it can save you a heal. Foes can be weakened by bow hits, other mages, or secondary gambit damage. Hm... the more I talk about it, the more niche it sounds. I'll have to assess how often it actually activates in my current playthrough, so I can make a fair judgement. 

You have a point, but it still sounds like too many hoops to jump through for something that ultimately isn't worth it, considering for Lifetaker to save me a heal pretty much requires the stars to be in perfect alignment.