I kind of really like that this game has foreigners

[Hauke]

Another point hinting at Adrestia as the Holy Roman Empire are the noble positions. In the Holy Roman Empire t5he positions like Chancelor, War MInister etc were inheritable in a family.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prince-elector#High_offices

And also some of the emperors did try to centralize the empire and failed, just like Edelgard's father and the rebellion of the six houses.

[magnetic_cactus]

54 minutes ago, Etrurian emperor said:

I think the Leicester Alliance is more supposed to represent the Italian city states rather than the Holy Roman Empire. While indeed disunited the Holy Roman Empire was still a major power on par with the other great powers of Europe. I think Italy is the better comparison because Leicester is a relatively minor power compared to the Kingdom and the Empire. The various lords are so disunited that they throw in their lot with various superpowers to improve their own positions and this causes the alliance to fall. This strikes me as more similar to how the Italian city states were all smaller powers than Spain, The Holy Roman Empire and France and how they allied with the various powers to survive and improve their own position. The Alliance also has a closer connection with the merchant class than the other nations just like how Italy had the trade hub of Venice or the banking city of Milan. 

I don't think the game really portrays LA as significantly weaker than the other two nations; more decentralized than disunited, and militarily still quite competent. There is a more mercantile approach to the LA (in the GD route, there's a few merchant who mention that the LA is better for business), although that can just as easily be interpreted as a reference to the real life Hansa. Classifying the LA as the Italy also ignores the Almyran/Mongolian conflict, which is a central focus of the LA's characterization and Claude's and Hilda's stories, and doesn't work as well geographically. I suppose you could argue that in the Italian context it may be reflective of Moorish invasion of Sicily or similar, but the scale doesn't seem to match, and the cavalry association with Almyra isn't then reflected. But ultimately since it's a fantasy, I think some elements of other areas were included in creating each locale, so it does not surprise me that others see different things than I do (the devs probably very likely looked at both of these places in creating the LA).

54 minutes ago, Etrurian emperor said:

For the Adrestia I think its the Holy Roman Empire that served as its inspiration. Both are successors of nations that once ruled the known world. The Holy Roman Empire wasn't very Roman but it sure pretended to be Rome's successor. I suppose you could argue Adrestia could also mirror the eastern Roman empire because the world dominating power they claim descent for is....well its the past version of the empire itself. But I think the Holy Roman empire is the better comparison. Like the electors the 7 nobles of the empire all have hereditary positions of great power and they can constrain the emperor if they want. But most of all its their relations with their respective churches. Relations between the Holy Roman Empire and the church were really rocky and they waged war on each other several times. In Fodlan Edelgard is deeply hostile to the church and a scholar claims the entire empire is rather cold towards the church after the Southern church tried to pull a coup. 

The HRE was SUBSTANTIALLY more decentralized than Adrestia is; Edelgarde is portrayed essentially as a complete sovereign. You are correct that there was an uprising which neutered her father's effective authority, orchestrated by nobility, but I see this as reflective of the power struggles that characterized Byzantine politics (Doukas, anyone?). The HRE also did not claim to be a continuation of Rome in the same way that Byzantium did; until its collapse, Byzantines literally called themselves Roman and held themselves out 100% not as a successor state to Rome but as literally Rome itself; a few HRE emperors paid lip service to the idea that the authority of the Roman empire had been by papal decree conferred to them, but this was nowhere near the same (in fact Russian Tsars made a similar claim, which was taken about as seriously, with respect to the movement of Roman authority following the collapse of Byzantium). The conflict between Byzantium and Rome (the city) was also worlds more serious (in fact, the HRE was essentially responsible for the creation of the Papal States through land gifts) - see the Great Schism, the Fourth Crusade (and the subsequent creation of the Latin Empire), etc. ERE seems to also match better geographically (right down to the (somewhat enlarged) Bosporus separating the "Greece" part of Adrestia from Morfis). But again, I grant you that there are obvious non-ERE influences here, including HRE influences, such as Edelgarde's design and Germanic sounding name and some of the imperial stylings, such as the black eagle (actually more reflective of the Kaiserreich than HRE, in my opinion). 

42 minutes ago, timon said:

Interesting post as I've also been looking at the historic inspiration behind the game. I do agree that it pulls heavily from Medeival Europe, but I think you can see a lot more sides to it if you ignore the geography but focus on culture and "flavour".

I don't think I over-focused on geography. Most of my post discussed flavor in the context of real life history and political dealings. If anything, I think over-focus on things like names and colors is the oversimplified approach. In reality, I suspect that the devs took inspiration from many places in many ways - for example, taking the history and geography of one place, and overlaying place names and such of another. In this regard I think I can get on board with the idea that, for example, Adrestia is politically the ERE (Byzantium) but culturally the Kaiserreich/German Empire pre WWI (not really HRE).

Edit: For what it's worth, I doubt the devs had a professor of history, or even a college history major, fact checking or providing advice when they created Fodlan, so I acknowledge fully that some of what I see may be a function of overanalysis. It's entirely possible that, for example, Adrestia is meant to just be "Yet Another Autocratic German-like", without specific reference to any historical, or at least non-modern, time frame - an amalgamated entity combining elements of the Nazi regime with its pre-Weimer predecessor, I suppose, in the same way that laypeople probably internally characterize WWI era Germany - and its numerous similarities to ERE are entirely coincidental (wouldn't surprise me; I'm not sure how much the average person knows, or even cares, about medieval history outside of pop-TV like Vikings or Last Kingdom). When you're a hammer, though, everything looks like a nail.

Edit 2: Don't get me wrong, I suspect many people in this thread know their stuff; I'm just not entirely sure IS deserves quite that much credit. They couldn't even balance Wyvern Lord! 🙂 

Edited August 27, 2019 by magnetic_cactus

[omegaxis1]

It's funny, but Awakening was very close to having the foreigner thing going. Say'ri and Yen'fay are the foreigners, having both a culture that is completely unique to it, even in its own nation of Chon'sin, despite how Chon'sin is meant to be on the same continent of Valm.

But the fact that this game commits to foreigners makes the story and world in 3H far more compelling. 

[xchickengirlx]

5 hours ago, Etrurian emperor said:

I'm a very big fan of it. Just the inclusion of outside regions makes the world seem bigger which is always a good thing. 

The presence of the other nations adds a lot to the geopolitical situation. All three kingdoms seem to have a certain rival outside Fodlan. For the Alliance its Almyra, for the Kingdom its Streng and for the empire its Dagda. These hostilities in turn affect the cast. Sylvain's family is so obsessed about crests because they guard the border and Caspar feels very awkward about his father killing Dagdans and Brigidians. 

Its a small touch but it adds a great deal. 

Yeah that's the biggest issue, and I guess it could only be solved by having DLC where you can pay maps in these regions. Also, the game throws so much exposition about these territories, all these names involved with these regions, and so on and so on, but we never actually get to see it in the game. It was hard to remember most of it. 

That all being said, being a poc myself, one parent being a native from another country, it was nice to see so many brown characters. Claude wanting to end racism and bring everyone together was really good.

[Jotari]

5 hours ago, Acacia Sgt said:

Eh, no. I quite clearly stated:

 

Yes, that's what self defeating about it. It doesn't make sense to say it's natural for a fire emblem continent to be isolated because Europe wasn't isolated.

[Acacia Sgt]

5 minutes ago, Jotari said:

Yes, that's what self defeating about it. It doesn't make sense to say it's natural for a fire emblem continent to be isolated because Europe wasn't isolated.

I'm not comparing the FE continents to Europe. I used Europe as an example of how places can be in contact and isolated from it.

Thus, unlike most FE lands, Fodlan is more like Europe, who has neighbors close enough and with the means to have contact with them. While something like Archanea and Valentia is like Europe and the Americas back then.

Basically, it's to point how unlike Europe most FE continents are. It's comparable if Europe didn't had Africa and Asia next door.

Edited August 27, 2019 by Acacia Sgt

[Jotari]

Just now, Acacia Sgt said:

I'm not comparing the FE continents to Europe. I used Europe as an example of how places can be in contact and isolated from it.

Thus, unlike most FE lands, Fodlan is more like Europe, who has neighbors close enough and with the means to have contact with them. While something like Archanea and Valentia is like Europe and the Americas back then.

That's using the same example to show two completely contradictory things. If you want to make a comparison, then Australia or Madagascar would be a better example of isolated land masses.

[Acacia Sgt]

1 minute ago, Jotari said:

That's using the same example to show two completely contradictory things. If you want to make a comparison, then Australia or Madagascar would be a better example of isolated land masses.

The arguemnt was divided in halves. I mentioned both the places Europe had constant contact with, then I pointed out the ones it barely knew about. THen I equated the FE landmasses being like the latter half, while Fodlan is the former half.

[Boomhauer007]

I actually think Cyril is an interesting representation of what essentially amounts to brainwashing of children in a war setting. They don't address it in game, but the tactics are spot on: take kid from other country, steal them from shit situation, make things better while still not actually giving them much freedom, convince them you're the messiah, and they will do literally anything for you. As annoying as it is to hear "Lady Rhea" every single sentence out of his mouth, that's what would actually happen in that situation.

Ironically it doesn't make me dislike his character any less (him and Catherine share that bottom spot pretty hard), but it had the potential to address something really intriguing.

[charcoalswift]

12 minutes ago, Boomhauer007 said:

I actually think Cyril is an interesting representation of what essentially amounts to brainwashing of children in a war setting. They don't address it in game, but the tactics are spot on: take kid from other country, steal them from shit situation, make things better while still not actually giving them much freedom, convince them you're the messiah, and they will do literally anything for you. As annoying as it is to hear "Lady Rhea" every single sentence out of his mouth, that's what would actually happen in that situation.

Ironically it doesn't make me dislike his character any less (him and Catherine share that bottom spot pretty hard), but it had the potential to address something really intriguing.

Hey at least he's not a child slave working for Hilda's household

Rhea saved him from that life, this is why he loves her so much

Catherine's obssession with Rhea is more annoying because she's a grown woman not some little kid who doesn't know how to read

[Timlugia]

Actually in multiple convo Cyril was given other options such as to leave or join the knights, yet he always refused out of loyalty to Rhea.

It’s not until Rhea resigns/married/dies he reconsidered and either became an knight or joined academy as a student.

 

If you got Seteth A support with Cyril, Seteth would tell him that Rhea actually wishes him to find a path in life besides serving her.

Edited August 29, 2019 by Timlugia

[Jotari]

11 hours ago, Acacia Sgt said:

The arguemnt was divided in halves. I mentioned both the places Europe had constant contact with, then I pointed out the ones it barely knew about. THen I equated the FE landmasses being like the latter half, while Fodlan is the former half.

I get what you're saying. But it's a poor representation. If A (typical FE continents) = B (Europe) and B (still Europe) = C (Fodlan), then you'd expect A = C. Which isn't the case. Actually using the isolated continents you're comparing Europe against instead of Europe serves better. Ultimately I'm just being pedantic though as this really doesn't matter at all.

14 hours ago, magnetic_cactus said:

 I suppose, in the same way that laypeople probably internally characterize WWI era Germany

Nah, Adrestia doesn't have cool enough hats to be a lay person's perception of WWI era Germany.

15 hours ago, Etrurian emperor said:

That's a really neat list of comparison but I personally reached somewhat different conclusions. 

I think the Leicester Alliance is more supposed to represent the Italian city states rather than the Holy Roman Empire. While indeed disunited the Holy Roman Empire was still a major power on par with the other great powers of Europe. I think Italy is the better comparison because Leicester is a relatively minor power compared to the Kingdom and the Empire. The various lords are so disunited that they throw in their lot with various superpowers to improve their own positions and this causes the alliance to fall. This strikes me as more similar to how the Italian city states were all smaller powers than Spain, The Holy Roman Empire and France and how they allied with the various powers to survive and improve their own position. The Alliance also has a closer connection with the merchant class than the other nations just like how Italy had the trade hub of Venice or the banking city of Milan. 

For the Adrestia I think its the Holy Roman Empire that served as its inspiration. Both are successors of nations that once ruled the known world. The Holy Roman Empire wasn't very Roman but it sure pretended to be Rome's successor. I suppose you could argue Adrestia could also mirror the eastern Roman empire because the world dominating power they claim descent for is....well its the past version of the empire itself. But I think the Holy Roman empire is the better comparison. Like the electors the 7 nobles of the empire all have hereditary positions of great power and they can constrain the emperor if they want. But most of all its their relations with their respective churches. Relations between the Holy Roman Empire and the church were really rocky and they waged war on each other several times. In Fodlan Edelgard is deeply hostile to the church and a scholar claims the entire empire is rather cold towards the church after the Southern church tried to pull a coup. 

I fully agree with you on Faergus being France and Albinae being England. Personally I'd say Almyra is more akin to the middle eastern empires than the Mongols. Their name sounds very middle Eastern and while they do like to fight I don't get the feeling they are barbarians either. I think the Turks are a more likely inspiration than the Mongols as they share the horse archer trait while more commonly being seen as Middle Eastern unlike the definitely Asian Mongols. 

Cyril makes one reference to Almyra saying it's very, very empty outside of the cities, being made up of endless plains, which geographically sounds very like Mongolia. Of course it's still possible there's middle eastern influence there as people have pointed out in the close. It's not at all contradictory to take social, aesthetic and racial inspiration from three different places to make up a fictional people.

15 hours ago, magnetic_cactus said:

 

• Sreng: Scandinavia (specifically, the various pre-Christian chiefdoms/petty kingdoms circa 800). We don't know really anything about this place. Seems to me they just took the "cold wasteland" concept of a pre-Christian Scandinavia and inverted it to a "hot wasteland" concept.

Given that Sreng is to the north and a hot wasteland, that's a good indication that Fodlan could be the first Fire Emblem continent set in the southern hemisphere (of course that's assuming very basic rules of geography, having a hot northernly neighbor isn't impossible in the northern hemisphere, but I'm assuming basic geography is about how much the developers care to include).

Edited August 28, 2019 by Jotari

[Nihilem]

1 hour ago, Jotari said:

Given that Sreng is to the north and a hot wasteland, that's a good indication that Fodlan could be the first Fire Emblem continent set in the southern hemisphere (of course that's assuming very basic rules of geography, having a hot northernly neighbor isn't impossible in the northern hemisphere, but I'm assuming basic geography is about how much the developers care to include).

No It just mean that the devs dont know how climate zones work . Faerghus is told to be considerably colder then brigid to the south. And in the South-East s even another dessert (Morfis I believe).

[Boomhauer007]

They just went with standard anime climate rules; North is always cold, south is normal, and east or west has the desert.

[Humanoid]

The way the rivers are drawn really trigger me too. The map really could've gotten at least a passing once-over by a cartographer or geographer or enthusiastic RPG hobbyist DM even.

[Acacia Sgt]

Regarding climates and weather, perhaps there's other factors to consider. There's stuff like ocean currents, the axis tilt of the planet, by how much things like mountain ranges prevent the passage of precipitation and stuff. Just consider how Europe isn't like Canada despite sharing the same latitudes. Perhaps similar things are at play here.

5 hours ago, Jotari said:

I get what you're saying. But it's a poor representation. If A (typical FE continents) = B (Europe) and B (still Europe) = C (Fodlan), then you'd expect A = C. Which isn't the case. Actually using the isolated continents you're comparing Europe against instead of Europe serves better. Ultimately I'm just being pedantic though as this really doesn't matter at all.

Then you saw it wrong. Europe isn't B. Or rather, we're talking of A = B1, B2 = C. Where of course, B1 =/= B2. Though yeah, this ultimately doesn't really matter in the grand scheme of things.

[Jotari]

11 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said:

Regarding climates and weather, perhaps there's other factors to consider. There's stuff like ocean currents, the axis tilt of the planet, by how much things like mountain ranges prevent the passage of precipitation and stuff. Just consider how Europe isn't like Canada despite sharing the same latitudes. Perhaps similar things are at play here.

Then you saw it wrong. Europe isn't B. Or rather, we're talking of A = B1, B2 = C. Where of course, B1 =/= B2. Though yeah, this ultimately doesn't really matter in the grand scheme of things.

No, I understand, I even said how I understood in my first reply. I'm not objecting to what you're saying, I just think you used a poor example to say it.

[RandomGuy2307]

Fodlan is probably not in the southern hemisphere: in the library there is a worldmap, only the bottom half is visible and only one part of it has names. Neither the lands nor the geography match with Fodlan, so Fodlan should be where we cannot see (northern hemisphere).

 

The Sreng desert feels weird though (along with Dedue's complexion).

[iavasechui]

Heh This is about the point where my DM will say something along the lines of get your darn science out of my fantasy campaign. I cleaned it up a little XD he won’t appreciate that but I don’t like swearing online or offline for that matter.