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Hardric62

What are Golems exactly? (Spoilers. Just Spoilers)

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Okay, we know what Demonic Beasts, take a Crest Stone/Relic, mix without a Crest, but sometimes one with works too (looking at you, Maurice, or Silver Snow's White Beasts), and voila, a monster unit.

 

Which leads my to my question: While we know about the Beasts, what about the Church's Golems (Rhea Paralogue, Crimson FLower, and Silver Snow) and the Aghartans' Titanus? How were these one created?

The Titanus, for instance, look like techno-magical constructs, and the Golems too, although they look like more 'archaic' than the Titanus, and it looks like they are powered by Crest Stones too once they are stripped of their armor and that the damages begin to show.

But then I see the Golems of Crimson Flower's finale, and these ones have names, and more importantly, they have a Crest of Seiros, meaning they share blood with Rhea (Can someone tell me if the White Beasts do the same in Silver Snow's Finale, or even its Golems? I've been searching for videos of the finale on Youtube, but none of the I saw so far ever bothered to check out the Beasts or the Golems for that map), henceforth meaning there is probably a very much biological, and very likely human, component to these machines to explain that.

But then the question becomes, why do these Golems have this weird thin humanoid form with elongated twitching members within the armor, why are they so different from any other Demonic Beast in appearance (amongst smaller details, let's mention the utter silence they fight in, compared to the roaring these Beasts usually go with, or use a form of weapon like the Katars or the Lancde of Light compared to other Beasts' 'Crest Stone')? And they have to have been built by Rhea/the Church, since the 'ultimate models' of Crimson Flower share her Crest, so how do we get something so different from the White Beasts, Rhea's 'brand' of Beasts (and one which only appears when she goes berserk, if she could actually create them, she would totally use them in Crimson Flower. At the same time, she is also clearly less powerful in Crimson Flower compared to Silver Snow. But that one is a discussion for another topic)?

That and their names makes me wonder too. For the record, here they are:

-Chevalier

-Wilhelm

-Luca

-Bernhard

-Gajus

-Iris

The first two are the names of 1) one of our lost Crest Bearers and 2) the one of the first Adrestian Emperor. Dunno if the other have ever been mentioned in lore so far (the most I can get is Luca as a diminutive for Lycaon, that successor of Wilhelm dead at the end of the War of Heroes, but that's frankly reaching).

All of that making me ask myself if these things aren't some sort of necromantic constructs, crafted out of honored heroes (Altered Golems, named or not), or truly heinous criminals (the generic Golems do look like Iron Maidens). It might be paranoia, after all, we name things like warships and the likes from dead people constantly, and they are not build from/around these people, but the decidedly humanoid form, the presence of a Crest implying blood and a 'biological component'), the differences with Demonic/White Beasts... Note that I also wonder about the Titanus, just because they look more technological don't mean they coudln't have been crafted in a similar way.

 

But that's enough with my rambling. What are you people's opinion on the subject?

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the white beasts in silver snow do have her blood as well, as that's how they became white beasts in the first place

i won't spoil the entire plot of that chapter, so I'll just leave it at that

 

golems I believe were created by rhea/serios for the service of the church and are powered by crest stones, while titanus are bastardizations of that technology given a massive upgrade (given the defensive and offensive capability) by the agarthans. the names I think are just for reference/honor, I don't think the golems were ever humanoid

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Just now, Chocolate Kitty said:

the white beasts in silver snow do have her blood as well, as that's how they became white beasts in the first place

i won't spoil the entire plot of that chapter, so I'll just leave it at that

 

golems I believe were created by rhea/serios for the service of the church and are powered by crest stones, while titanus are bastardizations of that technology given a massive upgrade (given the defensive and offensive capability) by the agarthans. the names I think are just for reference/honor, I don't think the golems were ever humanoid

The first I know, what I was asking was 'Have they a Crest of Seiros on their stats sheet?'. You have no idea how many videos of that battle are on the internet and never check them.

 

I'll admit that I'm more perplex about the 'order of origin' for Titanus and Golems, but that's mainly because I think manufacturing weapons had to become much harder once Shamballa became the Aghartans' only city, and the Golems clearly display Seiros' Crest everywhere, and are henceforth likely more 'recent' (unless repurposed from older tech). But thing is, they flat out have Crests, which means Rhea's blood, and henceforth something with Rhea's blood inside was used.

That said, it could indeed be an 'honored heroes' naming only. Although it is strange to use 'Wilhelm' in Crimson Flower. Things have a tendance to be renamed if the ally referenced becomes an enemy, or the glorious event from the past is actually not that glorious or in 'bad taste' compared to the present.

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59 minutes ago, Wolfen09 said:

Meh, argathans probably got a hold of rheas blood at some point way back in the day and have been using it to make this stuff

Spoiler

Edelgard has the Crest of Seiros because she is a descendant of the Emperor.  Thanus is (or is disguised as) Edelgard's uncle and sponsored the double-crest experiments on Lysithea, Edelgard, and Edelgard's siblings.  The Argathans would have had access to Rhea's blood through the experiments on Edelgard's family alone.

 

Edited by freewaffles

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Their real world analogues perhaps shed some light on what they are.

'The Golem' originally comes from Jewish Folklore. And there's a rather peculiar legend + religious mythology behind it:  https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/the-golem


Image result for golem of prague


A Golem is a lifeless lump of earth or clay sculpted into the shape of a giant man, brought to life by a divine invocation asking God to breathe life into it + a holy symbol or word of power inscribed upon it's forehead.

It is said that the rabbis and hebrew mystics of old created golems to protect their communities and perform menial labor. (these golems possessed superhuman strength + would single-mindedly follow any order given to them by their creator)

The most famous golem story comes from 16th century Europe:  the legend of "The Golem of Prague"

It is said that the Jews of Prague were under attack by the city's Christian community, and that a wise and learned rabbi created a Golem to fend off the attackers.

To bring the creature to life the Rabbi insribed the word  אמת  upon its forehead; the Hebrew word for TRUTH.

Image result for golem of prague

The Golem was tremendously powerful and did in fact fend off all attackers. However, the rabbi somehow lost control of The Golem. And it went on a rampage; causing great property destruction and attacking innocent people. 

Afterwards it was decided that The Golem was too dangerous, and that it had to be destroyed.

To do this: The Rabbi erased a single letter from its forehead. Causing the word אמת  to become the word מת; the Hebrew word for DEATH.


Related image

...whereupon the Golem turned back into a lump of lifeless clay...

But it was said that the Golem's lifeless clay body was never actually destroyed; it was taken to the attic of an old synagogue and thrown into storage. Where its inscription could be restored and the golem could be brought back to life, if ever again it was needed.
______   


Now of course golems have been interpreted and reinterpreted in various works of fiction, and various fictional settings have put their own spin on them.

But absent any in-verse explanation for what they are or how they are made.

I'll give deference to the originating myth of earthen constructs, brought to life by words of power + divine invocation to a progenitor god.  

And that seems pretty consistent with something that could exist within the lore of Fodland + be affiliated with the Church of Seiros.  

Edited by Shoblongoo

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2 hours ago, Wolfen09 said:

Meh, argathans probably got a hold of rheas blood at some point way back in the day and have been using it to make this stuff

 

You're aware I'm talking about the Church's Golems when I said some of them have the Crest of Seiros? And only the 'ultimate' model of Crimson Flower's, to boot, all the other are Crestless.

 

Why the duck would the Agarthans need Seiros' blood to build their Titanus?

 

14 minutes ago, Shoblongoo said:


I'll give deference to the originating myth of earthen constructs, brought to life by words of power + divine invocation to a progenitor god.  

And that seems pretty consistent with something that could exist within the lore of Fodland + be affiliated with the Church of Seiros.

 

Interesting parallels drawn here, although here the main power source is a Crest Stone. Although I also notice that another common trope for this sort of Golem stories is 'Life cannot be created from nothing, so something must be sacrificed first'. And the fact Rhea hasn't been able to get Sothis back has been the lynchpin of many of her neuroses...

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From the art book

They were clearly advanced designs from pre war era.

Aghartan version seems even more advanced, note in Japanese it says they were made from artificial muscles, but church version weren't too far behind once you took off that funny looking steampunk armor that somehow looks like Edelgard. Both have energy weapons known as javelin of light.

IMG_1540.JPG

IMG_1542.JPG

Edited by Timlugia

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My guess would be named golems are simply prototypes/custom models. 

Anyway Crest =/= creststone. As far as we know Jeralt did not have stone and Byleth having both stone and Crest is due two different reasons. So golems can be driven by stones even without having living being inside. 

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14 minutes ago, Tenzen12 said:

My guess would be named golems are simply prototypes/custom models. 

Anyway Crest =/= creststone. As far as we know Jeralt did not have stone and Byleth having both stone and Crest is due two different reasons. So golems can be driven by stones even without having living being inside.  

Crest = Blood.

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Oh, didn't get to see the art book, so I guess there is that. Funnily enough, Rhea's reaction when she sees the Titanus is to compare them to Demonic Beasts. Strange that she wouldn't recoginze Golems though . And welp, by the time you are inside Shamballa, it's a bit late to bullshit the party about these things and their nature.

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My interpretation

It's possible that Aghartan's version were created since last time Rhea fought them 1000+ years ago, moving from mechanical like church ones to cyborg with muscles.

Since they are painted black with bunch of "eyes" on them, they do look like beast at first.

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Well, I doubt she never met Agarthans before Sothis wiped the ducktards out, and at the very least during the War of Heroes given their support of Nemesis (she has to learn they upjumped him one way or another), and I'm  pretty sure developping things like the Titanus is the sort of weapons you could create with slaying big things like Dragons in mind.

 

Also, the Titanus shown above is without the armor. When they have one, they look even more mechanical than the Church's Golems. Heck if I had to say which one was a Demonic Beast, I'd go with the kind sporting constantly twitching arms.

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