Jump to content

You could remove the Church route and lose nothing of value *spoilers*


Recommended Posts

3 hours ago, CyberNinja said:

Alternatively Claude controls half the alliance he should have troops regardless, Blue Lions and Silver Snow are the only routes this plotline makes sense because they're the only one's where you're a small band of murderhobos for most of the game instead of an actual nation.

Blue Lions also take it without Nader, is Azure Moon a rip off of Verdant Wind too? Of course not, the fact remains that the cutscene for the "pillars of Light" uses the assets for Silver Snow, that means they had to have had that cutscene made already by the time Verdant wind was created. If they weren't made side by side, Verdant wind most likely came after.

Its implied he died or went back to Almyra after his army disintegrated, everyone not recruited in Silver Snow is dead. At the end of Silver snow you're the sole authority left in the realm since most of the leadership in the Alliance, the Kingdom, and even the Empire was killed. That you're the head religious figure and have the other two factions under your wing leaves it as inevitable for the alliance to fall in line. Possibly under orders left by Claude, since he forces the alliance to join the victors in every single route.

I'm not saying whether or not Verdant wind ended up a better route, only that most of the content was originally made in Silver Snow, having done silver snow last, even I can see it clear as day.

As for Crimson Flower, it has the Tailtean plains and an Azure moon map with all the tiles replaced with flame tiles. Arianrhode is also in Azure Moon as Dimitri's paralogue. So it has one truly unique map and four (four!) less maps than any other route. It has one unique cutscene to its name and its the ending one, it even lacks a cutscene that all other routes get, giving us the fade to black. Edelgard's paralogue is literally hildas and probably the main/only reason she isn't recruitable for that route. The Wait/hub area for the siege of Gareg Mach is literally a flat plan with walls on all sides and a cart in the center. Are we really doing this?

Yeah and the fact Cluade intelligence has to be nerfed for the rehashed church route to happen is baffling. He has the knights of Seiros, Nader and Lorenz. Lorenz even says when you recruit him on the battle field he can convince his dad to support Byleth and not the empire. Cluade running off to fight the bandits in chapter 13 is also super dumb for him to do without scouting there numbers. He also didn't know Dimitri was alive but it is implied he does in every other route. The GD time skip makes no sense specially when the alliance bends over back words for Edelgard an invader in her route. They could have easily had him steam roll the empire in a few chapters then focus on the final boss and his true lineage.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 109
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Eh, Claude only knows about Dimitri being alive in BL because your group establishes contact with him prior to Gronder Field in hope of joining forces. To stop this from actually occurring they throw in a corpse and they take it as a threat even if it makes no sense for Claude/the Alliance to do that, and you have to fight him in the shoehorned Reunion battle.

Without Byleth there, and Dimitri's unhinged prickliness being unchecked, he just doesn't bother to reach out in GD.

Gloucester needs more deft politicking to fully get them onboard against the Empire due to their proximity to Empire lands, and the obvious threat of immediately being invaded and knocked over if they defy them. They're not really on your side in the beginning and it causes Lorenz some visible discomfort when Claude plots around that.

Edited by Crysta
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Crysta said:

Eh, Claude only knows about Dimitri being alive in BL because your group establishes contact with him prior to Gronder Field in hope of joining forces. To stop this from actually occurring they throw in a corpse and they take it as a threat even if it makes no sense for Claude/the Alliance to do that, and you have to fight him in the shoehorned Reunion battle.

I thought it was obvious that it was TWISTD doing that killed the messenger? More so if you played Golden Deer and know they're based in the Alliance?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, Crysta said:

idk was it obvious? I figured it could just be an asshole pro-Empire alliance lord who happened to intercept the messenger.

I'd say the over the top cruelty tipped me off, especially since I'd just finished Golden Deer and knew that their base was in the Alliance. Furthermore this was after you took the bridge in Azure Moon and so the majority of the lords would have backed Claude by then.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Seteth and Flayn being among my favorites verses Claude being among my least puts me in the opposite camp. I’m saving Silver Snow as my canon route and going to grind away to be able to recruit every student a faculty member possible for when the new harder modes drop. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 9/8/2019 at 8:56 AM, CyberNinja said:

Alternatively Claude controls half the alliance he should have troops regardless, Blue Lions and Silver Snow are the only routes this plotline makes sense because they're the only one's where you're a small band of murderhobos for most of the game instead of an actual nation.

Blue Lions also take it without Nader, is Azure Moon a rip off of Verdant Wind too? Of course not, the fact remains that the cutscene for the "pillars of Light" uses the assets for Silver Snow, that means they had to have had that cutscene made already by the time Verdant wind was created. If they weren't made side by side, Verdant wind most likely came after.

Its implied he died or went back to Almyra after his army disintegrated, everyone not recruited in Silver Snow is dead. At the end of Silver snow you're the sole authority left in the realm since most of the leadership in the Alliance, the Kingdom, and even the Empire was killed. That you're the head religious figure and have the other two factions under your wing leaves it as inevitable for the alliance to fall in line. Possibly under orders left by Claude, since he forces the alliance to join the victors in every single route.

I'm not saying whether or not Verdant wind ended up a better route, only that most of the content was originally made in Silver Snow, having done silver snow last, even I can see it clear as day.

As for Crimson Flower, it has the Tailtean plains and an Azure moon map with all the tiles replaced with flame tiles. Arianrhode is also in Azure Moon as Dimitri's paralogue. So it has one truly unique map and four (four!) less maps than any other route. It has one unique cutscene to its name and its the ending one, it even lacks a cutscene that all other routes get, giving us the fade to black. Edelgard's paralogue is literally hildas and probably the main/only reason she isn't recruitable for that route. The Wait/hub area for the siege of Gareg Mach is literally a flat plan with walls on all sides and a cart in the center. Are we really doing this?

Judith was secretly supplying Claude with troops so he could make it less obvious that he was moving the Alliance into direct war with the Empire. She has the motive to do so in Verdant Winds, but not Silver Snow; Judith never expresses a lick of interest in the church, and supplying troops to the knights of Seiros instead of, y'know, Claude who needs them for his own invasion (since he still goes to Gronder) makes no sense.

I agree that the videos were made for SS first, just not the moment-to-moment content and map design. Videos have to be done well ahead of other design most likely, since they were probably comissioned to another studio. (Haven't checked the credits to be sure.)

If you doubt that SS was designed late, then why do so many SS maps have mini-bosses named "Imperial General"? It's because they're Petra, Dorothea, Ferdinand, Caspar, and Linhardt, who have all been shamelessly removed because those maps were designed for a route where the Black Eagles are not on your side!


When I spoke of "maps" earlier, I was including things like enemy/PC placement and design, not the art assets. Every CF map has unique design, as does its two paralogues. If you want to talk about unique art assets, then yes CF only has two unique maps (yes, reskinning a map to make it look credibly on fire is a major investment, it counts). This is still more than literally every other route! And her final map actually looks like it was designed as one, unlike "generic swamp" and "the monastery again". Hilda and Edelgard's paralogues have significant differences, and if anything it's more likely Hilda's is copied from Edelgard's since Edelgard's actually has a boss with a face and plot connection to settle with.

Having 3-4 fewer maps isn't relevant. If they'd wanted they could have zero-effort copied Chapters 13, 21, and 22 from VW onto her route, bringing it right in line in terms of length. I think this would have been a bad idea (for reasons related to story and themes I could get into, but won't unless asked). I suspect the dev team agreed with me.

I'm not sure what you're trying to prove about the CF chapter 12 hub being lazy. It's a hub you only use for one chapter, of course it's lazy. If the other routes had some detailed temporary hub this argument would have a point; as is if anything it helps my case, because even though there were other logical places to have an army base on other routes ("let's retreat to the monastery!" gets pulled a few too many times), Crimson Flower is the only one they actually bothered to make one for. If the route were as lazy as you imply, surely they'd have just skipped it and gone straight to the chapter 12 battle.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ummmmmmmmm Cluade is still actively fightning the empire with the knights of Seiros the leader of the Alliance and no one in the empire or the Alliance sees this as a breach of power or act of war? Plus his route not even confronting the hate towards Amalyrians or the supposed hate he gets in Fodlan for being half one when not a single person in the story or supports notice? Yeah no his route was super rushed compared to the others. I don't even know how you could think otherwise. Plus his route ends with the true religion theocracy that the church route does when Cluade is way to much to believe that's good. The entire system is build around recruiting students from other houses and them being replaced with generics. One route being made after the others and rushed doesn't mean four routes weren't always planned. Or GD wasn't added late.

Edited by Julian Solo
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 5 weeks later...
On 8/31/2019 at 4:19 AM, UNLEASH IT said:

I actually think it's the other way around. That scene where Rhea facetanks the nukes has absolutely nothing to do with Claude yet it appears on GD. More importantly, the scene where you kill Edelgard has no emotional weight on GD because you were never her teacher and probably talked to her like 3 times tops.

I always found that scene jarring.  Edlegard had done nothing to that point to warrant a tragic death scene.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I just want to point out Judith supplying soldiers in SS does make sense if you think that at that point, Claude is stalemated keeping balance between lords. However, once the KoS take the Great Bride of Myrddin, he can move more freely since the pro-Empire lords led by Gloucester have lost a huge amount of their reason to support the Empire.

 

While there is definitely shared content between SS and VW, I wouldn't necessarily agree that one was developed late. I think that in actuality, they were both intended to exist, but time/money crunches turned what could have been clearly separate stories into near-copies where each route shamelessly borrows material from the other. Edelgard's death scene and Rhea taking the nukes make more sense on SS, but considering it's called "Three Houses", NOT having a GD route makes zero sense so it's pretty clear to me they were both intended. Perhaps this time crunch is also why CF is so short: they had up to Tailtean Plains done, and were going to put in a TWS chapter or two but they had to rush to "finish" VW and SS so in the end they just said "F it, we'll just finish off CF with a Fhirdiad fight and have TWS dealt with in Epilogue". As many have pointed out, CF is the route where you KNOW FOR A FACT that TWS are a separate group that is only loosely affiliated with the Empire AND Edelgard clearly wants them dead. TWS being dealt with in Epilogue only makes sense to me if they ran out of time, which also contributes to the explanation of how SS and VW share so much content

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...