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You could remove the Church route and lose nothing of value *spoilers*

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i feel its important to have the option to say no to edelgard from a narrative perspective itself, but SS does feel like it could have been worked out differently to keep things fresh. maybe have a daring rescue mission of dimtri and claude, and rabbeling what forces you can get to make a daring counterattack against edelgard who reveals a crazy rhea as a last minute trump card.

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Nah, I liked the option of going BE but changing your mind and going for SN if you think Edelgard is heading in a trainwreck.

Seteth and Flayn get a lot more in this route, so there is value lost because they do not shine nearly as much ANYWHERE else.


Fuck that.

Edited by Seazas

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5 hours ago, Dark Holy Elf said:

Anyway, regardless of that, I agree that the church route is by far the worst. It made me like Seteth less (never was a fan of Flayn) because he literally does the same thing he does on Dimitri/Claude routes and his extra dialog develops him not one bit (he really should have started explaining who he was). Not having one of the big three around really sucks. And the Black Eagles being present on this route is kinda nonsensical, they showed up at a class reunion that was Edelgard's idea because I guess they want to fight her for some reason I guess?

I actually like Seteth more because of Silver Snow, it really shows him to be a sane(which is important consider other lords except Claude), reasonable tactician and advisor, especially when he recommended against you going to Gronder, putting overall military consideration over emotional reasons (wanting to help Claude or fight Edelgard early like Dimitri). I can completely see why both Rhea and Byleth asked him to help leading the church and later new nation after playing Silver Snow.

And Flayn reveals the nature behind your five year "sleep" is also unique in this route.

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Yeah, not even gonna bother with this route. I played BE, BL and GD and then asked some people for the unique stuff in the Church route (which wasn't all that much) and just watched it on youtube.

If IS expects me to go through the GD route again without Claude's (or really any of the lords) charm they're definitely mistaken. I don't dislike Seteth but as sort of lord character I found his dialogue in the route boring.

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1 hour ago, Timlugia said:

I actually like Seteth more because of Silver Snow, it really shows him to be a sane(which is important consider other lords except Claude), reasonable tactician and advisor, especially when he recommended against you going to Gronder, putting overall military consideration over emotional reasons (wanting to help Claude or fight Edelgard early like Dimitri). I can completely see why both Rhea and Byleth asked him to help leading the church and later new nation after playing Silver Snow.

Yeah, I haven't even gotten to Silver Snow and I think Seteth is awesome. He's got his head on straight. It's a shame Rhea doesn't get more focus in the Church Route, but I'm still planning on doing it second. I will be doing GD last instead now so I won't have to do two similar paths in a row. Man, BE is going to be brutal on me (love Dimitri and Rhea). I just wish they had put different content in Silver Snow. As a whole, Black Eagles feels underdeveloped. Crimson Flower is the shortest route when they could have easily had you fight TWSITD like the other routes. Silver Snow doesn't have enough to differentiate it from GD. It looks like BL is probably going to be my favorite route with the way everything is going.

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as someone who went. GD/BL/BE I'm fine w/it sort of being the same. (because i think (in a sense). the idea might be- if you never play Golden Deer - you still get the Lore (and I don't know if there's a bit of a difference for those who play both sides) - minus, IMO the best part of the time split; Gronder Field. the fact that this doesn't happen at all for edelgard - to get her PoV drives me insane. there's no real "Clash of the 3 houses (at once)" for Edelgard. On the Church path - it makes sense imo it's strictly, Find Rhea, resist the Empire.


(maybe some tweaks on the GD path could have been less about finding Rhea - and more about Claude's MLK dream)

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1 hour ago, daisy jane said:

as someone who went. GD/BL/BE I'm fine w/it sort of being the same. (because i think (in a sense). the idea might be- if you never play Golden Deer - you still get the Lore (and I don't know if there's a bit of a difference for those who play both sides)

There are some difference in lore from GD and Silver Snow.

Golden Deer focus more on truth behind crest, relics and ancient wars with TWISTD, while Silver Snow talks more about truth identity of Byleth and his relationship with his "kins"

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9 minutes ago, Timlugia said:

There are some difference in lore from GD and Silver Snow.

Golden Deer focus more on truth behind crest, relics and ancient wars with TWISTD, while Silver Snow talks more about truth identity of Byleth and his relationship with his "kins"

I'm not there yet - so that's good to know that's the final piece. 

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Well dang, haha. The Church Route is my favorite. Didn't know so many people didn't like it. Yeah, it's very close to GD. But it's different in ways too. A lot more emotional, in my opinion. But also, it feels like a more true route for BE, at least to me. Though I know a ton of people will disagree with me. But then again I did GD first and this route last, so maybe that helped. Plus I adore all the Church characters.

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1 hour ago, Dylan Corona said:

Well dang, haha. The Church Route is my favorite. Didn't know so many people didn't like it. Yeah, it's very close to GD. But it's different in ways too. A lot more emotional, in my opinion. But also, it feels like a more true route for BE, at least to me. Though I know a ton of people will disagree with me. But then again I did GD first and this route last, so maybe that helped. Plus I adore all the Church characters.

It's almost certainly meant to be the true BE path. I have a very hard time believing otherwise.

Thinking about it tho, it never occurred to me but yeah I do think it's important for there to be an option to picking BE and then being the one to take her down. Sort of a- as her teacher it's my responsibility thing. That made it pretty cool. Tho only Seteth and Flayn really do anything there. Couldn't recruiting the church on another route have the same effect? I know Catherine has a few more scenes on the BL route, or well sentences anyway.

Is there any particular reason you like it better then GD? I'm curious considering I found them almost identical but I admit I enjoyed the Church route a little more and I have no idea why. I don't like not having a Lord to defer to so in theory I should have liked it less.

 

That said- The route ends with Byleth ruling Fodlan as a unified continent....just like GD and the truth about Byleth can be gleaned from past conversations. When she revealed the truth on GD- I was like "Whoah! What?!" and on the church route, it was like uh I know. You basically said this earlier, just with less detail. 

Edited by Zelda2120
To add something

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10 hours ago, Zelda2120 said:

It's almost certainly meant to be the true BE path. I have a very hard time believing otherwise.

 

12 hours ago, Dylan Corona said:

But also, it feels like a more true route for BE, at least to me. Though I know a ton of people will disagree with me.

I'm not sure what you mean by a "true" route; it's a vague phrasing. If you mean that you're of the belief that this game has a single, canon story, and Church route comes closer to it, then I won't argue with you on that one (I don't agree but only in the sense that I think worrying about which route is "canon" misses the point of this game).

If you mean that it's the one the developers intended or preferred you to play for Edelgard, then I strongly disagree. Crimson Flower provides you with seven unique maps, plus two unique paralogues, while Silver Snow provides you with one map. Crimson Flower is the only way to see the A supports (and several B's) of both Edelgard and Hubert, two pivotal characters in the game, while Silver Snow has no unique characters and only a single S support with Rhea which is unique to it (I think?).

And finally, consider that this is a game that asks an open-ended question as to whether revolution is justified. If all three routes had forced you to give the same answer, the game would be far poorer for it. I see the reaction to the Crimson Flower route in my social circles, and look at articles like this one being written about it. (I don't link this to start an argument as to whether Edelgard is justified or not. That's not the point. The point is that the game asks the question, and that giving consideration to that question, even if one feels strongly on their answer, is something that players everywhere are doing.) Its existence is extremely important to the game. It goes without saying that the Silver Snow route is not having the same impact.

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 It doesn't really ask if revolution is justified though, quite opposite actually. Crimson Flower keep hammering you made mistake and ended on wrong side of history.

Edited by Tenzen12

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2 minutes ago, Tenzen12 said:

 Crimson Flower keep hammering you are mistake and ended on wrong side of history.

What? I must've played a different game then, it kind of did the opposite for me.

Edited by timon

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9 minutes ago, Tenzen12 said:

 It doesn't really ask if revolution is justified though, quite opposite actually. Crimson Flower keep hammering you made mistake and ended on wrong side of history.

Stating opinions as facts...goddammit, I quit GameFAQs and came here hoping to get away from this shit. Can you please not?

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7 minutes ago, Tenzen12 said:

Well, I don't know you or what games you play, so cannot comment on that.

Jokes aside, I don't see when or how CF ever says or hints you're wrong. Every scene and every progression makes it feel more and more right as you go on. As you progress through the story even people who had doubts (mostly recruited people) get behind Edelgard's reasons and want to pursue the revolution.

Add the fact that there's not really a lot of misdoings from the empire in CF and you get the picture of a rightful revolution more than a power hungry conquest (which is not the case even in the other routes, but when she's the enemy there's a progression for the worse instead).

Edited by timon

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Literally every enemy call you for your Sxxt as they dies protecting their country and families you trampling over. Non of Black Eagles join because they trully believe in her ideal, Caspar completely stop talk about justice and only want fight, Petra is only in because she don't want Brigit get screwed again, Dorothea feel pretty despodent. And ultimately Eldegard can't properly even get moral high ground even against crazed dragon who just burned whole city making whole Final Boss showdown feel like bullying instead.

 

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10 minutes ago, Tenzen12 said:

Literally every enemy call you for your Sxxt as they dies protecting their country and families you trampling over.

That literally happens with every character you kill in every route. Actually, CF is the only one where an enemy (Claude) recognizes your cause and cheers you on as he dies.

13 minutes ago, Tenzen12 said:

Non of Black Eagles join because they trully believe in her ideal, Caspar completely stop talk about justice and only want fight, Petra is only in because she don't want Brigit get screwed again, Dorothea feel pretty despodent.

Caspar's idea of justice is... simple at best. He just wants to beat up bad guys, I haven't recruited him anywhere else, but I'm pretty sure he doesn't have much deeper ideals in any route. Actually in the church route he's struggling since he knows he has to fight his family. Petra admires Edelgard a lot, she truly likes the empire (and Edelgard herself) and wishes for Brigid to be an ally. Dorothea is a weak case, she doesn't want to fight in any route anyways, she's there because she trusts Byleth, that's her only tie to the war in every route.

13 minutes ago, Tenzen12 said:

Eldegard can't properly even get moral high ground even against crazed dragon who just burned whole city making whole Final Boss showdown feel like bullying instead.

lol what?

If that final chapter in Fhirdiad isn't enough to give you the moral high ground - after she completely flips because you don't agree to being a tool to get her mommy back, and after she uses the kingdom as a meat shield - I'm not sure what your "moral high ground" standard is. I guess you just really like Rhea, which is fair, she's a good character, but you're blinding yourself here. Bullying got me a chuckle ngl

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5 minutes ago, timon said:

after she uses the kingdom as a meat shield

WORSE than a meat shield. She burns down the city that she PURPOSEFULLY trapped them in, KNOWING that they would die, JUST to kill you and Edelgard. Literally everyone else (even the troops under your command) are of no consequence to her.

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On August 30, 2019 at 10:34 AM, Etrurian emperor said:

Isn't Seteth a main character in the church route? I'd say that's plenty of vallue. 

Indeed  main reason i enjoyed church route  Fave character in the game getting spotlight? Fuck, yes  

On August 30, 2019 at 10:07 PM, Vince777 said:

It feels weird to complain about the 4th route in a game that would already be very long with a single route and that offers so much replayability already.

I feel spoiled.

This post is an entire mood

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1 hour ago, Sid Starkiller said:

WORSE than a meat shield. She burns down the city that she PURPOSEFULLY trapped them in, KNOWING that they would die, JUST to kill you and Edelgard. Literally everyone else (even the troops under your command) are of no consequence to her.

Yes burning Fhirdiad is obviously the worst part, but even before that, the whole chapter 17 is Rhea manipulating the complete Kingdom army (+ the king himself) as bait for her attack, and when that fails she uses them as meat shields for her retreat (instead of turning dragon and attempting to save them).

Now I'm not saying she's a monster everytime, because it's pretty obvious that CF!Rhea is a lot more lost than her other iterations (that goes for Edelgard as well), but I still find it difficult to see her as anything more than a villain, if only a minor one. She does have her redemption in other routes, but I still don't feel like it's enough to delete everything she did. Same deal with Dimitri btw.

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17 minutes ago, Flere210 said:

What exactly does Dimitri of irrimediable? Everyone that he killed was an enemy and he is The Punisher at worst, but i don't think he really reach that point either.

Probably because a lot of people focusing on his confession "I killed children", but he later explained these were child soldiers trying to ambush him.

It really shaken him because he took them in earlier as war orphans by the order of Rhea.

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I find Dimitri highly sympathetic on CF myself, incidentally; fighting him reminded me of fighting a Camus-type character (except him being the king puts a different spin on it). The scene where Edelgard tells him he would have been a great king in a peaceful era tugged at my heartstrings a bit. Poor guy deserves better on 3 out of 4 routes.

3 hours ago, Tenzen12 said:

 It doesn't really ask if revolution is justified though, quite opposite actually. Crimson Flower keep hammering you made mistake and ended on wrong side of history.

Sorry, you're objectively wrong about this. The game does ask the question. Many players came to the opposite answer you did. You are obviously free to have your opinion, but you should acknowledge this (even if you obviously don't like it).

 

3 hours ago, Tenzen12 said:

Non of Black Eagles join because they trully believe in her ideal, Caspar completely stop talk about justice and only want fight, Petra is only in because she don't want Brigit get screwed again, Dorothea feel pretty despodent.

Every one of those characters fights and dies for Edelgard if they aren't in your party. Depending on the characters they either believe her ideals, are charmed by her, or think it's in their best interest, or some combination of these factors.

-Caspar absolutely brings up justice during CF. The point is that justice is what we want to believe it is; on CF, he thinks his side is just.

-If you don't think Dorothea isn't fully on-board with tearing down nobility you must have skipped almost every one of her supports. She's despondent on CF because she hates war, but she's even more despondent on every other route. Dunno if you've ever seen it, but the scene where she laments the fact that we killed Ferdie was one of the saddest things in the game (her voice actor is so good).

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1 hour ago, Flere210 said:

What exactly does Dimitri of irrimediable? Everyone that he killed was an enemy and he is The Punisher at worst, but i don't think he really reach that point either.

Maybe it's not irremediable, but it's just a bit weird how easily redeemed he is. The guy's been running around like a ravaging beast for 5 years killing in the most gruesome ways possible and as far as I remember even torturing people. Sure, enemies, but still people he could've swiftly killed, instead he took pleasure in the suffering. Now you could tell me he was crazy and I'll give you that, but that's not a pass in my book. And while doing all of this he also abandoned completely his duty towards his people and his land (and his friends).

Then one day his almost father dies and he's a hero again. I'm not necessarily talking about his character arc, because there are hints that he's becoming a bit more lucid before that event. What gets me is the reaction of everyone else, like the only person who ever questions the change is Hilda, who actually wonders - like everyone should - if the guy is stable and will be stable enough to lead a nation, bless her. And Felix, but he doesn't believe in the first change to start with.

Another thing that I really, really can't comprehend is why before he returns sane they put him in charge and ask for his order on every single thing. I get that he's the rightful heir, but the guy just wants to slaughter people, I wouldn't exactly refer to him for crucial decisions on leading an underdog army in a complicated war campaign.

Maybe it's just me, but the fact that he goes back to being a good person doesn't fix 5 years of massacre for the purpose of a void revenge.

That said Rhea is on another level, since she'd have to fix a mess of 1000 years.

Edited by timon

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