Rank Fire Emblem Villains From Least To Most Moral

[Troykv]

The backstory of Medeus and his regime make me think he should have done his own religion at least he isn't unimaginable evil like Loptyr, or evil incarnate like Fomortiis

Duma, Nergal and Anankos are in the special "mad as hell" category. 

Ashnard and Zephiel had twisted ideas of sociality.

Veld is pretty much Manfroy Lite.

Loptyr and Fomortiis are as evil as one can get. 

Ashera has the most "righteous" idea about her evil plan. But it's hard to vote for her because she is a terrifing figure and lacks a nice side despite apparently being a god with "only positive qualities". It's a bit like the case of Medeus where they take actions that are correct since their own point of view...

Hmm...

Edited September 7, 2019 by Troykv

[Emperor Hardin]

On 8/31/2019 at 1:27 PM, Etrurian emperor said:

I think this trait doesn't make Medeus as sympathetic as if could have been because Medeus himself hardly seems to care about humans mistreating dragons. Its Xane who tells us Medeus thinks this way but Medeus never says or does anything to suggest he holds the beliefs Xane says he does. Even before he becomes a Dark Dragon he only speaks like the most generic evil overlord imaginable. 

Its possible Medeus got so corrupted he forgot about his original goal but there's also nothing in his dialogue to suggest that either. He's just an evil prick who got his actions excused by a third party who could be totally off base for all we know. 

The narrator describes Medeus as "always claiming his cause is just", as well as his direct guardian/subordinate Xemcel ranting about how humans usurped the land from Dragons. He just lacks screentime due to having resurrection sickness in Shadow Dragon and just being resurrected in Mystery of the Emblem.

On Topic, I'm thinking Zephiel would be the most moral.

[Jotari]

6 hours ago, Emperor Hardin said:

The narrator describes Medeus as "always claiming his cause is just", as well as his direct guardian/subordinate Xemcel ranting about how humans usurped the land from Dragons. He just lacks screentime due to having resurrection sickness in Shadow Dragon and just being resurrected in Mystery of the Emblem.

On Topic, I'm thinking Zephiel would be the most moral.

Zephiel literally wants to genocide all the humans to death. At least Medeus is content to let them live as slaves (at worst) or fully functioning allies nations (at best). The latter of which being what we actually see in game, though we don't know what his long term plans were for Macedonia and Grust etc.

[Emperor Hardin]

20 minutes ago, Jotari said:

Zephiel literally wants to genocide all the humans to death. At least Medeus is content to let them live as slaves (at worst) or fully functioning allies nations (at best). The latter of which being what we actually see in game, though we don't know what his long term plans were for Macedonia and Grust etc.

True, though Zephiel is operating under the genuine, albeit deluded belief that War Dragons will build a utopian society.

Overall, good point.

I think Macedonia and Grust would've eventually had their rulers assassinated and replaced by more Manakete subservient humans; Michalis is too dangerous to Dolhr to be allowed to live and even Ludwik is too disloyal, despite his cowardice. They'd probably either get a Dolhrian human to take their place, or butter up minor authority figures to replace their King. I can see Dolhrian loyalists like Larissa to bump off their King, in exchange for being the new King(even if ultimately a puppet ruler for Dolhr).

[Jotari]

22 minutes ago, Emperor Hardin said:

True, though Zephiel is operating under the genuine, albeit deluded belief that War Dragons will build a utopian society.

Overall, good point.

I think Macedonia and Grust would've eventually had their rulers assassinated and replaced by more Manakete subservient humans; Michalis is too dangerous to Dolhr to be allowed to live and even Ludwik is too disloyal, despite his cowardice. They'd probably either get a Dolhrian human to take their place, or butter up minor authority figures to replace their King. I can see Dolhrian loyalists like Larissa to bump off their King, in exchange for being the new King(even if ultimately a puppet ruler for Dolhr).

Medeus is also working under a genuine belief that dragons will build a more Utopian society. One that has more basis in reality as they once did exactly that.

You know thinking on Medeus's beef with humans, Macedonia should have been the first place he invaded. They're situated right next door and they literally ride his mentally ill brethren like domesticated horses (cue tangent discussion as to whether wyverns humans ride actually are degenerated members of the wyvern clan). If that's not disrespectful and abuse of his kind then I don't know what is.

[dragonlordsd]

The impression I got about Ashera is that if it hadn't been for Sephiran, literally nothing would have happened.

Like, she didn't want to destroy everyone, she just laid down rules that basically amounted to "don't be evil". And while I wouldn't say she was "good" exactly, for the most part, people were able to follow those rules with no problems for like, 1,000 years.

But yeah, Loptyr is pure evil. Unlike Medeus, Duma, or even Ashnard, there's no... excuse? for what he does. He's just pure, cold evil.

And unlike Grima, there's a more... personal touch to Loptyr. Like, he's not just pure destruction, he's also about cruelty and torment.

Edited September 4, 2019 by dragonlordsd

[Fabulously Olivier]

The most morally depraved villain in the entire series is Izuka. What he did to the Laguz is simply vile.

[Troykv]

I don't know what is worse; an actual incarnation of evil or an evil one with human senses?

[Jotari]

On 9/5/2019 at 4:40 PM, Etheus said:

The most morally depraved villain in the entire series is Izuka. What he did to the Laguz is simply vile.

Veld (and Manfroy) did more or less the same thing only to humans with the Deadlords. Does not being racially motivated make it better even if it's your own species you're doing it to? Was Izuka even racially motivated or was he just acting under cold hard scientific pragmatism. Considering they did the same to Bertram too, probably the latter. Izuka does have numbers over the Manfroy and Veld though. But that's probably only because they wanted to do it to really strong warriors not sure why though, having an army of zombies and a squadron of elite zombies is better than only having elite zombies, though I suppose you could probably say the same for Ashnard and Izuka. Why not have dozens more Bertrams? Maybe something to do with tactics. And people objecting to it on racial grounds (though I'm sure there's way more POWs than Betram that they could have used it on). I don't doubt that Manfroy or Veld would have any moral qualms with using the laguz in that way if they found themselves in Tellius though.

Edited September 7, 2019 by Jotari

[Alastor15243]

I don't get why so many people chose Ashera. She's literally physically incapable of empathy, compassion or sentiment, because she ripped out the part of her that was capable of that. She doesn't have any morals at all, not the slightest bit of remorse for murder or even any concept of the value of life, human or otherwise. Lawful evil is still evil.

[The Roger The Paladin]

What if I said Anankos were the most moral because he put in actual safeguards (not exactly good ones, given they don't work in two of three routes, and really had little-to-nothing to do with it in the third) to stop himself knowing he'd go batshit insane later?
I mean Duma knew about draconic degeneration and didn't do anything of the sort.

Or are we discounting that because it was before he became a villain per se?

And what if I said that Ashera were the most morally degenerate, because she literally got rid of her good side. EVERY bit of it. If sealing away all that is good in yourself in a separate and distinct individual isn't the definition of moral degeneration, then it's pretty close.

[Troykv]

Ashera most likely thought her feelings are a negative attribute (specially considering how her title and Yune's can be literally translated from Japanese).

The obvious side effect is making her a complete sociopath; for denying that "negativity" inside of her.

[Jotari]

4 hours ago, Alastor15243 said:

I don't get why so many people chose Ashera. She's literally physically incapable of empathy, compassion or sentiment, because she ripped out the part of her that was capable of that. She doesn't have any morals at all, not the slightest bit of remorse for murder or even any concept of the value of life, human or otherwise. Lawful evil is still evil.

Yeah, I'm a bit baffled too. I can only assume people think her moral because they agree that she had a right to do what she did because she was a goddess? I mean she literally wants to destroy every sentient creature in existence and is breaking the rules she set out herself to do so. Other Fire Emblem characters are certainly more sadistic than her, but her objectives are the absolute worst anyone can have. The only one that even contends with her is Grima.

3 hours ago, The Roger The Paladin said:

What if I said Anankos were the most moral because he put in actual safeguards (not exactly good ones, given they don't work in two of three routes, and really had little-to-nothing to do with it in the third) to stop himself knowing he'd go batshit insane later?
I mean Duma knew about draconic degeneration and didn't do anything of the sort.

Or are we discounting that because it was before he became a villain per se?

And what if I said that Ashera were the most morally degenerate, because she literally got rid of her good side. EVERY bit of it. If sealing away all that is good in yourself in a separate and distinct individual isn't the definition of moral degeneration, then it's pretty close.

I actually considered Anankos for most moral. Mainly because he's batshit insane. Why'd he even start a war in the first place? I know he hated humans for being mean to him, but did he think a war between Hoshido and Nohr would wipe them all out? Or was it more of a petty "take that" intended to cause general misery?

[Icelerate]

59 minutes ago, Jotari said:

Yeah, I'm a bit baffled too. I can only assume people think her moral because they agree that she had a right to do what she did because she was a goddess? I mean she literally wants to destroy every sentient creature in existence and is breaking the rules she set out herself to do so. Other Fire Emblem characters are certainly more sadistic than her, but her objectives are the absolute worst anyone can have. The only one that even contends with her is Grima.

Yune:
“You’ve got it all wrong, little meatling. Ashera is neither kind nor loving to the beings of this world. Neither is she holy nor base, angel nor devil. She is…restriction. Order. Stability. Past. Certainty. Restraint. She is Ashera.”

Ashera has more compelling reasons to do the things she does than most on the list considering just how fucked up the world of Tellius is compared to say Elibe. 

What's your pick as most morally and least morally upstanding villain? 

[Jotari]

23 minutes ago, Icelerate said:

Yune:
“You’ve got it all wrong, little meatling. Ashera is neither kind nor loving to the beings of this world. Neither is she holy nor base, angel nor devil. She is…restriction. Order. Stability. Past. Certainty. Restraint. She is Ashera.”

Ashera has more compelling reasons to do the things she does than most on the list considering just how fucked up the world of Tellius is compared to say Elibe. 

What's your pick as most morally and least morally upstanding villain? 

That;s what Yune says when she's first released. Later she says

Yune: Yes, but more important than the song itself, I was never alone. There
    was always someone, singing comfort to me. Ashera shouldn't have isolated
    herself. She became lonely and bitter, and lost touch with her people..

Ashera is a corrupted form of what she was meant to be. She is not even following her own rules. She was not awoken because Tellius is such a fucked up place, she was woken by the Galdr and had to discuss what to do with Yune, which she didn't. But even if she kept her promise and was woken by war, that's still beside the point. The whole theme of the narrative is that she doesn't have the right to decide their faith. People aren't some piece of filth. Their imperfect, but they're still beautiful and they will never stand idely by while some higher power declares their entire existence invalid. Especially not when the so called perfect being omnicidal psychopath. Like I said, only way you can really see Ashera as moral is if you agree with her perspective, that she has the right to destroy whatever she personally deems unfit because she's a goddess.

I voted Medeus for good and Julius for bad. Though I think Fomortiis is probably up there with Julius.

Edited September 7, 2019 by Jotari

[Icelerate]

16 minutes ago, Jotari said:

 I voted Medeus for good and Julius for bad. Though I think Fomortiis is probably up there with Julius.

Haven't played Shadow Dragon or New Mystery but Medeus being the most moral makes sense. But Ashera is far from the most evil. Fomortiis, Julius, Veld and Grima are far worse because they are sadistic. Between Zephiel and Ashera, who do you find more moral? I'd say Ashera because Zephiel has is just a little kid compared to Ashera to be deciding humanity's fate. Furthermore, Ashera ends humanity in the most painless way possible while Zephiel's ways cause a lot more suffering. 

[Jotari]

21 minutes ago, Icelerate said:

Haven't played Shadow Dragon or New Mystery but Medeus being the most moral makes sense. But Ashera is far from the most evil. Fomortiis, Julius, Veld and Grima are far worse because they are sadistic. Between Zephiel and Ashera, who do you find more moral? I'd say Ashera because Zephiel has is just a little kid compared to Ashera to be deciding humanity's fate. Furthermore, Ashera ends humanity in the most painless way possible while Zephiel's ways cause a lot more suffering. 

I wouldn't argue Ashera for most immoral when people like Grima and Julius (or Loptyr depending on your persuasion) exist. But I think she's far from most moral. I would rank Zephiel above her. As at least he wants to preserve some form of society after his purge. Even if it's a bunch of mindless cloned soldiers. He's also seemingly willing to go down with humanity himself. He also shows (mild) compassion for his sister, meaning he's not into senseless slaughter. Everyone will die, all in good time. Lastly he's not a hypocrite, unlike Ashera. Her resurrection of the Begnion senate I see as incredibly hypocritical. They're directly or indirectly responsible for almost every bad thing in the game. Maybe she didn't know that, but Lehran absolutely did. Maybe he didn't tell her because he just wanted to see Lekain die. Can't really say. But saying all humans must die because they fight too much, and then ordering a bunch of humans to fight for her is a little lacking in knowledge. Necessary as it's a video game though and there was no opportunity to resolve the arcs with the senators before Part 4.

[henrymidfields]

I can't really say for anything Tellius/Jugdral related, but Medeus would rank as the least evil/most understandable on the list of games I play, with Zephyr second.

As others said, the first one wasn't even all that interested in genocide against humans - considering there were a lot of human soldiers, and human settlements that seemed to do just fine in the couple of endgame chapters that I played in Shadow Dragon. Even at its most disruptive, Medeus would probably be more interested in making an Duma-centric empire as opposed to an apocalypse.

For the latter? Well, basically Zephyr seem to have a similar grievance as with Team Galactic Cyrus in Pokemon DPPt? Basically as most people here said, Zephyr just wanted the stewardship of Elibe transferred to the dragons, who he genuinely believed would do a better job of not screwing up society with selfishness than human beings. Of course, whether he considered the potentially horrific consequences is another question, but even there, he was willing to accept the personal consequences/suffering. (That, and I also agree with Zephyr's other basic notion that humans are flawed/imperfect/sinful.)

As for the most depraved? I kinda forgot about Formotis, but Anakos and Grima would definitely be contenders here. I mean, do I even need to state a reason?

Edited September 30, 2019 by henrymidfields

[Lightbringer]

Loptyr.

Why? Formotiis is a DEMON, no shit. He is evil in flesh, evil is in its own constitution so he loses because it is its nature.

Loptyr no. He was an Earth Dragon (and maybe not naturally evil like Formotiis) that got so salty that he would need to live in human form that he decided to conquer humanity and create a slave holding empire that sacrifices kids to him.

The reason for child sacrifice? Spite. He gets nothing of it but pleasure at seeing 'those stupid monkeys' that would inherit the world instead of his own race suffering. Because y'know, humans are to blame.

That is some level of spitefulness that can only rank high there. And since Jugdral is Akaneia in the past...I get why humans hate dragons.

Look to Loptyr. He gave them all a bad rep.

[Jotari]

21 minutes ago, Lightbringer said:

Loptyr.

Why? Formotiis is a DEMON, no shit. He is evil in flesh, evil is in its own constitution so he loses because it is its nature.

Loptyr no. He was an Earth Dragon (and maybe not naturally evil like Formotiis) that got so salty that he would need to live in human form that he decided to conquer humanity and create a slave holding empire that sacrifices kids to him.

The reason for child sacrifice? Spite. He gets nothing of it but pleasure at seeing 'those stupid monkeys' that would inherit the world instead of his own race suffering. Because y'know, humans are to blame.

That is some level of spitefulness that can only rank high there. And since Jugdral is Akaneia in the past...I get why humans hate dragons.

Look to Loptyr. He gave them all a bad rep.

Well the stuff that Loptyr did in Jugdral is probably relatively unknown in Archanea. Although Loptyr did originally come from Archanea, so presumably he tried to do the same kind of shit there until Naga and or degradation finished him off in physical form.

Edited October 23, 2019 by Jotari