The worst parent

[Strullemia]

There's a lot of not so great parents but Desmond easily takes the cake imo. No other character is that obsessed with making their child's life THAT miserable. I can totally understand Zephiel snapping because of it, I might not like it but I can understand it.

[Arachnofiend]

On 9/4/2019 at 12:54 AM, eclipse said:

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I'm gonna take the Crests out because it's a Fodlan thing.  Without it, the parents become:

Sylvain: Older brother is disinherited for an arbitrary, socially acceptable reason.  This causes all sorts of problems.

Mercedes: Dad used his family for his own gains.  Shitty, but it happens even now.

Bernadetta: Dad wanting her to turn out one way, and never being satisfied with it is a RL thing.  And I wish it wasn't.

Ingrid: Don't know much about her except that she geeks out with Ashe in their C support and it's amazing.

I'll still argue that Edelgard's dad manages to trump them all - his lack of action caused almost all of his kids to die.  This. . .sadly, also happens outside of video games, but the difference between these families is that Edelgard's dad would be on the news for his nonsense.

 

Spoiler

I really don't think this is being fair to Edelgard's father. He didn't do anything because he couldn't, the Insurrection of the Seven left him so weak politically and physically that he had no power to stop the experiments. This is basically what his dialogue during Edelgard's coronation is about.

I don't think he was a great father by any stretch but blaming him for what happened to Edelgard is close to blaming Lysithea's parents for what happened to her.

 

[eclipse]

22 hours ago, Arachnofiend said:

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I really don't think this is being fair to Edelgard's father. He didn't do anything because he couldn't, the Insurrection of the Seven left him so weak politically and physically that he had no power to stop the experiments. This is basically what his dialogue during Edelgard's coronation is about.

I don't think he was a great father by any stretch but blaming him for what happened to Edelgard is close to blaming Lysithea's parents for what happened to her.

 

Spoiler

Do not underestimate a determined parent.  This is one of those scenarios where trying and failing spectacularly is better than not trying at all - and Edel's case sounds like the latter.

 

[Emperor Hardin]

On 9/27/2019 at 11:42 AM, Hekselka said:

There's a lot of not so great parents but Desmond easily takes the cake imo. No other character is that obsessed with making their child's life THAT miserable. I can totally understand Zephiel snapping because of it, I might not like it but I can understand it.

The most interesting thing is if Desmond hadn't attempted that last assassination:

* Bern would be in good shape without a deadly war wiping out many good people.

* Guinevere would've become Queen with Zephiel accepting it.

* Desmond would've actually been alive and probably would've been happy with the feud is over and Guinevere on the throne.

Talk about irony!

Edited September 28, 2019 by Emperor Hardin

[Druplesnubb]

On 9/28/2019 at 8:37 PM, eclipse said:

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Do not underestimate a determined parent.  This is one of those scenarios where trying and failing spectacularly is better than not trying at all - and Edel's case sounds like the latter.

 

Spoiler

In that case I would have to ask why you arent' blaming Lysithea's parents as well.

 

[eclipse]

4 hours ago, Druplesnubb said:

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In that case I would have to ask why you arent' blaming Lysithea's parents as well.

 

Spoiler

You'd think Edelgard's dad would've gotten the hint after the first one died, never mind the other nine.

 

[Arachnofiend]

32 minutes ago, eclipse said:

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You'd think Edelgard's dad would've gotten the hint after the first one died, never mind the other nine.

 

Spoiler

No one's objecting to the fact that he knew about the experiments. The objection is the idea that he could have done anything about them. Like, the entire point of the Insurrection of the Seven from the Slitherers' perspective was to ensure that nobody could stop them from performing those experiments.

 

[eclipse]

5 minutes ago, Arachnofiend said:

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No one's objecting to the fact that he knew about the experiments. The objection is the idea that he could have done anything about them. Like, the entire point of the Insurrection of the Seven from the Slitherers' perspective was to ensure that nobody could stop them from performing those experiments.

 

This is a concept called "bad storytelling".  Which really doesn't help any sort of argument against my stance.

 

[Arachnofiend]

1 minute ago, eclipse said:

 This is a concept called "bad storytelling".  Which really doesn't help any sort of argument against my stance.

  

Spoiler

You know what? You're right. Edelgard's father is a terrible person for letting those things happen to her and his other children. While we're at it, what a disgusting human being Dimitri is for just allowing the Tragedy of Duscur to occur right in front of him. And how dare Rhea just let Nemesis kill her mother? 

Or maybe none of these statements make any damned sense, and sometimes things happen because the people who would like them to not happen... can't do anything about it.

 

[eclipse]

1 minute ago, Arachnofiend said:

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You know what? You're right. Edelgard's father is a terrible person for letting those things happen to her and his other children. While we're at it, what a disgusting human being Dimitri is for just allowing the Tragedy of Duscur to occur right in front of him. And how dare Rhea just let Nemesis kill her mother? 

Or maybe none of these statements make any damned sense, and sometimes things happen because the people who would like them to not happen... can't do anything about it.

 

Spoiler

The fact that you're putting nine-year-old Dimitri into the same comparison with an emperor tells me that you're wasting my time.

 

[Arachnofiend]

3 minutes ago, eclipse said:

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The fact that you're putting nine-year-old Dimitri into the same comparison with an emperor tells me that you're wasting my time.

 

Spoiler

I could have said Gilbert instead and made exactly the same point. You don't seem willing to even consider that you may have underestimated the severity of the Insurrection though so there's not much point in trying to convince you.

 

[eclipse]

5 minutes ago, Arachnofiend said:

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I could have said Gilbert instead and made exactly the same point. You don't seem willing to even consider that you may have underestimated the severity of the Insurrection though so there's not much point in trying to convince you.

 

Spoiler

The fact that you think this is up for debate is why you're wasting my time.  "Worst" is a personal opinion.  You're free to disagree with it.  But going on about it in the way you have is about as respectful as me attempting to change your religious leanings by force.

So unless you want a sermon, learn to respect that opinion.

 

[Druplesnubb]

4 hours ago, eclipse said:

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You'd think Edelgard's dad would've gotten the hint after the first one died, never mind the other nine.

 

Spoiler

So you completely ignored my actual point then? Hell, your "comeback" could be applied just as well to Lysithea's parents with zero modification.

 

[eclipse]

9 hours ago, Druplesnubb said:

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So you completely ignored my actual point then? Hell, your "comeback" could be applied just as well to Lysithea's parents with zero modification.

 

Spoiler

It's like you completely ignored everything else I posted, just to post this.

So if you're not going to pay attention, then I'm not going to bother giving you a response.  Fair?

 

[Zapp Branniglenn]

Nobody said Anankos...? I mean, it's one thing to want to murder your children. But to brainwash that child's foster father to want to make their life miserable before killing them which inadvertently sets the stage for a world war is some shit.

[Druplesnubb]

1 hour ago, eclipse said:

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It's like you completely ignored everything else I posted, just to post this.

So if you're not going to pay attention, then I'm not going to bother giving you a response.  Fair?

 

You didn't say anything else that was relevant though? Just responded to some guy using nine-year-old Dimitri as an example and then when they switched to a better example you just gave up and went "you can't debate people in a forum thread"?

[eclipse]

1 minute ago, Druplesnubb said:

You didn't say anything else that was relevant though? Just responded to some guy using nine-year-old Dimitri as an example and then when they switched to a better example you just gave up and went "you can't debate people in a forum thread"?

Okay, so we're going to do a little exercise.

Your goal is to read the ENTIRE thread - not just what I said.  You're going to consider context, both in-game and in the thread.  If you STILL can't find it, I quote myself multiple times (yes, this is a hint), and you get a warning because you decided to push the point.

There's one very major difference between those two - the question is whether or not you're mentally honest enough to consider it.

[Punished Dayni]

1 hour ago, Glennstavos said:

Nobody said Anankos...? I mean, it's one thing to want to murder your children. But to brainwash that child's foster father to want to make their life miserable before killing them which inadvertently sets the stage for a world war is some shit.

I mean, I don't think you even need to do that, it's unfair to everyone else to put Anankos in that table.

Anankos is just the Worst. Period.

Speaking of bad parents, I know that Niime probably doesn't count but when you see that three of her kids are shrivelled wrecks and the other's not exactly the most stellar parent (I love Canas and all but still), never mind her relationship with her grandson out of context you could see that being more likely.

[Druplesnubb]

2 hours ago, eclipse said:

Okay, so we're going to do a little exercise.

Your goal is to read the ENTIRE thread - not just what I said.  You're going to consider context, both in-game and in the thread.  If you STILL can't find it, I quote myself multiple times (yes, this is a hint), and you get a warning because you decided to push the point.

There's one very major difference between those two - the question is whether or not you're mentally honest enough to consider it.

Spoiler

Actually I've read through the entire thread and nothing I've seen has hinted towards any difference between what happened to Edelgard and what happened to Lysithea. In fact, looking through the events it's actually remarkable how similar Edelgard's and Lysithea's stories are.

Edelgard's father was the emperor. Lysithea's father/mother was the ruler of House Ordelia.

Edelgard's father caused the Insurrection by tightening imperial control over the nobles. Lysithea's parents made an enemy of the empire by supporting House Hrym's rebellion.

Duke Aegir won the insurrection and made the emperor his puppet. Ordelia was invaded by imperial forces and put under imperial control.

Edelgard and her siblings were put through experiments until only Edelgard hadn't been crippled, turned insane, or died. Lysithea and her siblings were put through experiments until only Lysithea survived.

The only real differences I can think of is that while Edelgard's father displeased some powerful people Lysithea's parents actively joined an armed conflict against the most powerful force on the continent. Also Edelgard makes a mention of her father trying but failing to stop things but I don't think Lysithea makes any similar remark.

 

Edited October 13, 2019 by Druplesnubb

[Jotari]

6 hours ago, Glennstavos said:

Nobody said Anankos...? I mean, it's one thing to want to murder your children. But to brainwash that child's foster father to want to make their life miserable before killing them which inadvertently sets the stage for a world war is some shit.

I think only the good version of Anankos is Corrin's father. The guy who did all that is like an identical twin uncle.

2 hours ago, Druplesnubb said:

  Reveal hidden contents

Actually I've read through the entire thread and nothing I've seen has hinted towards any difference between what happened to Edelgard and what happened to Lysithea. In fact, looking through the events it's actually remarkable how similar Edelgard's and Lysithea's stories are.

Edelgard's father was the emperor. Lysithea's father/mother was the ruler of House Ordelia.

Edelgard's father caused the Insurrection by tightening imperial control over the nobles. Lysithea's parents made an enemy of the empire by supporting House Hrym's rebellion.

Duke Aegir won the insurrection and made the emperor his puppet. Ordelia was invaded by imperial forces and put under imperial control.

Edelgard and her siblings were put through experiments until only Edelgard hadn't been crippled, turned insane, or died. Lysithea and her siblings were put through experiments until only Lysithea survived.

The only real differences I can think of is that while Edelgard's father displeased some powerful people Lysithea's parents actively joined an armed conflict against the most powerful force on the continent. Also Edelgard makes a mention of her father trying but failing to stop things but I don't think Lysithea makes any similar remark.

 

It's nothing to do with the actual content of your argument that's annoying Eclipse. It's your attitude.

[eclipse]

On 10/13/2019 at 12:51 PM, Druplesnubb said:

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Actually I've read through the entire thread and nothing I've seen has hinted towards any difference between what happened to Edelgard and what happened to Lysithea. In fact, looking through the events it's actually remarkable how similar Edelgard's and Lysithea's stories are.

Edelgard's father was the emperor. Lysithea's father/mother was the ruler of House Ordelia.

Edelgard's father caused the Insurrection by tightening imperial control over the nobles. Lysithea's parents made an enemy of the empire by supporting House Hrym's rebellion.

Duke Aegir won the insurrection and made the emperor his puppet. Ordelia was invaded by imperial forces and put under imperial control.

Edelgard and her siblings were put through experiments until only Edelgard hadn't been crippled, turned insane, or died. Lysithea and her siblings were put through experiments until only Lysithea survived.

The only real differences I can think of is that while Edelgard's father displeased some powerful people Lysithea's parents actively joined an armed conflict against the most powerful force on the continent. Also Edelgard makes a mention of her father trying but failing to stop things but I don't think Lysithea makes any similar remark.

 

There's one huge difference.

Spoiler

Action against the experiments by Lysithea's parents would look like a rebellion that was swiftly put down by the emperor. It would be marked in the annals of history as "some failed rebellion", and nothing would come of it, except dead parents.

Edelgard's father being the emperor means that if he "rebelled" against the experiments, there would have to be a lot more to justify his sudden removal from the throne.  And depending on how he did it, it could've thrown the Adrestrian Empire into a messy civil war.  So it was either be a shitty parent and possibly a not-shitty emperor, being a decent parent and an awful emperor, or failing at both.  He attempted the first option, and got the third instead.

The difference is relative position in society.  Perhaps things might've been different if Lysithea's parents were the rulers, and Edelgard's dad was a random noble.

 

[Druplesnubb]

17 minutes ago, eclipse said:

There's one huge difference.

  Hide contents

Action against the experiments by Lysithea's parents would look like a rebellion that was swiftly put down by the emperor. It would be marked in the annals of history as "some failed rebellion", and nothing would come of it, except dead parents.

Edelgard's father being the emperor means that if he "rebelled" against the experiments, there would have to be a lot more to justify his sudden removal from the throne.  And depending on how he did it, it could've thrown the Adrestrian Empire into a messy civil war.  So it was either be a shitty parent and possibly a not-shitty emperor, being a decent parent and an awful emperor, or failing at both.  He attempted the first option, and got the third instead.

The difference is relative position in society.  Perhaps things might've been different if Lysithea's parents were the rulers, and Edelgard's dad was a random noble.

 

Spoiler

You're making a lot of wierd assumptions, like that they would need to do anything else but keep him isolated in his private quarters/throne room while the prime minister did all the actual business. Or that people would care if something happened to the guy. They managed to remove 9/10 imperial heirs without anyone really caring. Either because they bought th edisease excuse or because they knew who was really in charge.

 

[eclipse]

3 minutes ago, Druplesnubb said:

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You're making a lot of wierd assumptions, like that they would need to do anything else but keep him isolated in his private quarters/throne room while the prime minister did all the actual business. Or that people would care if something happened to the guy. They managed to remove 9/10 imperial heirs without anyone really caring. Either because they bought th edisease excuse or because they knew who was really in charge.

 

Spoiler

Heads of state tend to be more visible than random nobles.  "They got sick" might work for the kids (or some other convenient excuse if Edel's siblings are actually half-siblings, and mom disappeared too), but having the emperor suddenly come down with the same illness would spark a lot of talk.  I think it's a fair assumption to say that there's power struggles within power struggles in the Empire, and I find it a little odd that no one capitalized on the fact that Imperial heirs vanished left and right.

Unless the entire point of the rebellion was to outline how useless the emperor was, both as a ruler and a person.  Which means "worst parent" definitely applies.

 

[Seazas]

On 9/1/2019 at 7:32 AM, Interdimensional Observer said:

Although I wouldn't necessarily call him the worst, for he is good to Arion, I will mention Travant in this topic.

Travant is a nice villain deserving some sympathy, but his relationship with Altena is shown as so poor, that it is the one real blight on his character. Being a villain which certain political aims, his other objectionable act is justifiable, but being mean to Altena has nothing to do with his villainous goal. Therefore, the meanness was unjustified, and goes against what Kaga said Travant's relationship to Altena is supposed to be, one in which he really loved her. The issue is he never expresses the love properly.

That is why we need an FE4 and FE5 remake. Heroes has already shown to treat Jugdral with respect and accuracy to the original ((except for Reinhardt, perhaps this means he'll be significantly more important in FE5.))

[Seazas]

On 9/1/2019 at 8:22 AM, Eltosian Kadath said:

How about Rudolf for first abandoning his son, and then arranging for said son to kill him...I don't think it quite beats out Desmond, but is worth mentioning.

At least Emperor Rudolf in his memory prism explains to Mycen everything.

Rudolf knew Alm being in Rigel would endanger him to the Duma Faithful so at least he had the decency to try to look out for his son's safety. Hell, despite Rudolf's sacrifice at least it let Alm be successful.