The worst parent

[NobodiePichu]

well there are a lot of horrible relatives in mind (hilda easily sweeps worst aunt in the series) in terms of parents its a toss up between desmond and ashnard for me with desmond pulling ahead.

[eclipse]

7 hours ago, Anathaco said:

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True. I guess that kinda excuses parents like Sylvain’s and Mercedes’ adoptive dad. To be fair, though, Ingrid’s dad is an example of how a parent can believe completely in this Crest based society and still be a decent parent. So I still maintain that Count Varley (I don’t know much about how arranged marriage was handled in real societies, but I don’t think the fathers would be abusive enough to turn their daughters into what Bernadetta is currently. I could be wrong though), and Bartels (regardless of his beliefs, he still treated his stepwife and daughter like crap, and was abusive enough to turn his son into the Death Knight. Unless I missed something, he could’ve kept Mercedes around to marry her off, it’s not like she was completely indispensable. Just be more like Ingrid’s dad bro. And it is entirely possible to raise an heir to your house without making him a serial killer.) are some of the crappier parents the franchise has seen.

 

Spoiler

I'm gonna take the Crests out because it's a Fodlan thing.  Without it, the parents become:

Sylvain: Older brother is disinherited for an arbitrary, socially acceptable reason.  This causes all sorts of problems.

Mercedes: Dad used his family for his own gains.  Shitty, but it happens even now.

Bernadetta: Dad wanting her to turn out one way, and never being satisfied with it is a RL thing.  And I wish it wasn't.

Ingrid: Don't know much about her except that she geeks out with Ashe in their C support and it's amazing.

I'll still argue that Edelgard's dad manages to trump them all - his lack of action caused almost all of his kids to die.  This. . .sadly, also happens outside of video games, but the difference between these families is that Edelgard's dad would be on the news for his nonsense.

 

[Kruggov]

8 hours ago, eclipse said:

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I'm gonna take the Crests out because it's a Fodlan thing.  Without it, the parents become:

Sylvain: Older brother is disinherited for an arbitrary, socially acceptable reason.  This causes all sorts of problems.

Mercedes: Dad used his family for his own gains.  Shitty, but it happens even now.

Bernadetta: Dad wanting her to turn out one way, and never being satisfied with it is a RL thing.  And I wish it wasn't.

Ingrid: Don't know much about her except that she geeks out with Ashe in their C support and it's amazing.

I'll still argue that Edelgard's dad manages to trump them all - his lack of action caused almost all of his kids to die.  This. . .sadly, also happens outside of video games, but the difference between these families is that Edelgard's dad would be on the news for his nonsense.

 

Was browsing through the wiki and found this.

Spoiler

At least it's SOME sort of explanation for why Edelgard's dad didn't prevent the experiments on Edelgard, since he didn't hold much actual power in the empire after the insurrection.

 

[vanguard333]

King Ashnard. The only reason he made Soren in the first place was that he thought a branded child would have special abilities beyond just the slowed aging. The moment he was disappointed, he discarded Soren and apparently left him to be raised by a cruel, abusive old lady that then sold Soren. 

[Mukmuk]

You know, for me it's gotta be Kana. 

Must really suck to have a literal 8yrold as your dad. 

Actually, any child from Fates. Instant teenager parents would be awful, not to mention the specter of underage marriage...

On 9/4/2019 at 1:48 PM, vanguard333 said:

King Ashnard. The only reason he made Soren in the first place was that he thought a branded child would have special abilities beyond just the slowed aging. The moment he was disappointed, he discarded Soren and apparently left him to be raised by a cruel, abusive old lady that then sold Soren. 

Totally agree. 

[Druplesnubb]

Spoiler

I'm not sure what Ionius was supposed to do t ostop the prime minister exactly. Duke Aegir commanded all the soldiers and would hardly let Ionius out to tell anyone. he fucked up pretty badly though by inciting the rebellion that put the prime minister in power in the first place.

 

[Jotari]

Ignoring outright villains, yeah, basically everyone in Fates is a deadbeat parent that abandons their children and expect to still have a normal relationship with them as if missing their entire childhood is a normal and natural thing.

On 9/1/2019 at 9:32 PM, Interdimensional Observer said:

Although I wouldn't necessarily call him the worst, for he is good to Arion, I will mention Travant in this topic.

Travant is a nice villain deserving some sympathy, but his relationship with Altena is shown as so poor, that it is the one real blight on his character. Being a villain which certain political aims, his other objectionable act is justifiable, but being mean to Altena has nothing to do with his villainous goal. Therefore, the meanness was unjustified, and goes against what Kaga said Travant's relationship to Altena is supposed to be, one in which he really loved her. The issue is he never expresses the love properly.

Context. Travant as at war in Genealogy and Altena is defying his orders as a soldier. This is how he talks to her in peace times.

Spoiler

Trabant: "Around here, Merlock?"

Merlock: "Yes, your Majesty."

Trabant: "Those bandits, attacking the people of Thracia... This will not be taken lightly."

Altena: "You didn't have to come all the way out here, father."

Trabant: "Well, as king, I must be aware of any and all happenings in my country. And besides, it's been a while since I have traveled with you, Altena."

Altena: "Yes, I'm happy you decided to come with us."

Trabant: "I tried to get Arione to come along as well, but he said he couldn't leave the castle unattended. Oh well..."

Altena: "He's trying hard to be of help to you, father."

Trabant: "Well, when I was his age, I was already taking charge as king. I suppose I should commend his efforts."

Altena: "I'm working hard so I can be of assistance to you two as well."

Trabant: "Yes. I want you two to lead Thracia in the future. The fertile lands in the north, and the rich minerals in the south... Thracia needs both of these to rise up to independence and peace again. A unified Thracia... My wish is to rebuild Thracia into that prosperous nation that Dine and Nova created. ...And if that process dooms me to Hell, then so be it."

Altena: "...Father?"

Trabant: "Altena..."

Altena: "Yes?"

Trabant: "...The wind is picking up. I suppose we should leave the rest to Merlock and start heading back."

Altena: "Yes, father."

Trabant: "Merlock!"

Merlock: "Yes?"

Trabant: "I'm leaving the rest to you. With all these troops, I trust you won't fail. Hunt down the bandits and kill them all. Give them what they deserve for making our people suffer!"

He's not the best guy in the world, but Altena does respect and love him and there's surely a reason for that.

 

On 9/2/2019 at 5:09 AM, Interdimensional Observer said:

Looking at what he says to Eyvel, he says "I never should've led a nomad's life with such a small child to begin with.".

But more tellingly flipping back one chapter, is what he says when Mareeta recruits him:

"Besides, with the man I am now... with all the blood I've got on my hands... I figured it was better if you didn't have anything to do with me, wherever you were.".

 

So Galzus isn't proud of the life he presently leads, and wouldn't want Mareeta to get involved in it. Which perhaps he thought she would have tried to do if he met her after having Saias freeing her from the cursed sword. And, he now regrets having had her travel with him from the start.

I really like the way Eyvel says she wouldn't give Mareeta back even if Galzus wanted her. Plus he does agree to visit at least once a year, so he's not the worst dad in the world.

On 9/2/2019 at 9:58 AM, Slumber said:

Nergal.

Once a good dad, but as a dad we know, is definitely a bad dad. Is he a basically a husk of a man that has been hollowed out by dark magic? Yes. Did he hunt down his own kids and cause the death of one of his own children, then laugh about it to the man she loved? Also yes.

Even the baddest of bad dads in FE don't actually succeed in getting one of their children killed.

Alvis got his son killed. And yeah, I'd count him as a terrible dad. Having your son taken in by an evil cult that supplement his soul with that of an evil dragon god is pretty irresponsible parenting. 

[Fire Brand]

2 hours ago, Jotari said:

 

  Reveal hidden contents

Trabant: "Around here, Merlock?"

Merlock: "Yes, your Majesty."

Trabant: "Those bandits, attacking the people of Thracia... This will not be taken lightly."

Altena: "You didn't have to come all the way out here, father."

Trabant: "Well, as king, I must be aware of any and all happenings in my country. And besides, it's been a while since I have traveled with you, Altena."

Altena: "Yes, I'm happy you decided to come with us."

Trabant: "I tried to get Arione to come along as well, but he said he couldn't leave the castle unattended. Oh well..."

Altena: "He's trying hard to be of help to you, father."

Trabant: "Well, when I was his age, I was already taking charge as king. I suppose I should commend his efforts."

Altena: "I'm working hard so I can be of assistance to you two as well."

Trabant: "Yes. I want you two to lead Thracia in the future. The fertile lands in the north, and the rich minerals in the south... Thracia needs both of these to rise up to independence and peace again. A unified Thracia... My wish is to rebuild Thracia into that prosperous nation that Dine and Nova created. ...And if that process dooms me to Hell, then so be it."

Altena: "...Father?"

Trabant: "Altena..."

Altena: "Yes?"

Trabant: "...The wind is picking up. I suppose we should leave the rest to Merlock and start heading back."

Altena: "Yes, father."

Trabant: "Merlock!"

Merlock: "Yes?"

Trabant: "I'm leaving the rest to you. With all these troops, I trust you won't fail. Hunt down the bandits and kill them all. Give them what they deserve for making our people suffer!"

 

Alvis got his son killed. And yeah, I'd count him as a terrible dad. Having your son taken in by an evil cult that supplement his soul with that of an evil dragon god is pretty irresponsible parenting. 

It's not like he could do anything to prevent it. Manfroy can teleport anywhere he wants. Just see how easily he kidnapped Deirdre in Gen 1.

Also, wouldn't Deirdre also be considered, then? I mean, she's the heir to Naga, yet she just gets herself killed easily at the beginning. She could have easily ended the entire game then and there with Naga, which is in Belhalla at this point. She would be just as much to blame for Julius' fate.

[Jotari]

8 hours ago, Fire Brand said:

It's not like he could do anything to prevent it. Manfroy can teleport anywhere he wants. Just see how easily he kidnapped Deirdre in Gen 1.

Also, wouldn't Deirdre also be considered, then? I mean, she's the heir to Naga, yet she just gets herself killed easily at the beginning. She could have easily ended the entire game then and there with Naga, which is in Belhalla at this point. She would be just as much to blame for Julius' fate.

Alvis held the highest position of authority in the land. He could have outright executed Manfroy on a whim. But his belief in the first amendment was his downfall.

[Fire Brand]

4 hours ago, Jotari said:

Alvis held the highest position of authority in the land. He could have outright executed Manfroy on a whim. But his belief in the first amendment was his downfall.

As I said earlier, Manfroy can teleport anywhere he wants, and likely knows many places where he wouldn't be found, as a member of the Loptyr cult. It's very unlikely he'd let himself get caught. 

[Jotari]

1 hour ago, Fire Brand said:

As I said earlier, Manfroy can teleport anywhere he wants, and likely knows many places where he wouldn't be found, as a member of the Loptyr cult. It's very unlikely he'd let himself get caught. 

Those powers don't save him from Seliph driving a sword down his throat.

[Fire Brand]

7 hours ago, Jotari said:

Those powers don't save him from Seliph driving a sword down his throat.

At that point Loptyr has been resurrected and he sees himself as invincible, I guess? Though honestly, his actions make zero sense in the final two chapters, and it's probably because the ending was rushed. Can't think of any reason he'd want to keep Julia alive.

[Druplesnubb]

1 hour ago, Fire Brand said:

At that point Loptyr has been resurrected and he sees himself as invincible, I guess? Though honestly, his actions make zero sense in the final two chapters, and it's probably because the ending was rushed. Can't think of any reason he'd want to keep Julia alive.

The only reason I can think of is that he may want her around and under his control in case Loptous does something he doesn't like.

[Etrurian emperor]

2 hours ago, Fire Brand said:

At that point Loptyr has been resurrected and he sees himself as invincible, I guess? Though honestly, his actions make zero sense in the final two chapters, and it's probably because the ending was rushed. Can't think of any reason he'd want to keep Julia alive

The poor guy must have gotten senile in his older years.

I think it would all have worked much better if Julius was the one who wanted Julia alive to brainwash her. Despite being the antichrist Julius comes off as an unstable brat. It would be in character for him to force Julia and Seliph to fight because he finds it hilarious. 

[0 Def Cleric]

On 9/15/2019 at 2:49 PM, Etrurian emperor said:

I think it would all have worked much better if Julius was the one who wanted Julia alive to brainwash her. Despite being the antichrist Julius comes off as an unstable brat. It would be in character for him to force Julia and Seliph to fight because he finds it hilarious. 

...Well, it certainly would have worked much better, except for the fact that it's established a great deal in chapter 10 that Manfroy sees Julia as absolutely no threat, just as Julius sees Seliph as absolutely none. Manfroy explicitly mentions how he doesn't see how she could be a threat with the Book of Naga being sealed away, while Julius says that Naga lives within her blood. 

Manfroy thinks she's essentially just some damsel that has absolutely no power without Naga (and remember, he isn't aware that the circlet is the key to the Book of Naga's hiding place), whereas Julius thinks that since Seliph is only an heir to Baldr, he's no threat at all, despite leading a gigantic liberation army. Both of them make the mistake of underestimating one half of the duo, and that's essentially their downfall. Loptyr appears to be paranoid about Naga, and Manfroy appears to be overstating Seliph's competence, but they're actually both correct in that the siblings are just absolutely wrecking face together. 

(Can you tell I've thought over this plot point a lot? Anyway, the summary boils down to "even if it is stupid of Manfroy, it's not out of character considering what he's said before.")

Anyway, worst parent in the series is Naga, because who leaves their daughter all alone for a thousand years when they're aware that she could go on a rampage? Naga ends her own life, as stated in Mystery- she could have easily gone on living and monitoring Tiki to make sure she wasn't a danger to herself or others, but no, apparently ascending to a higher plane of existence to protect humanity was far more important than, you know, actively protecting humanity by making sure your nuclear-powered kid doesn't go mad. 

[Interdimensional Observer]

On 9/14/2019 at 12:56 PM, Jotari said:

Context. Travant as at war in Genealogy and Altena is defying his orders as a soldier. This is how he talks to her in peace times.

I was thinking of that conversation when I wrote it. It did help Travant's character a bit, just as Tahra made Arion seem smart, which well, he kinda sorta needed that after his very complicated "mistake" in FE4.

Though, the Travant-Altena convo seemed a bit too much focused on him and his Thracia desires, not enough on interacting with Altena. Though him trusting the future to his children is good when I reexamine that convo. And, I shouldn't expect Travant to be too openly emotional as a father, expecting more free and loving conversation and behavior from him, might be asking for too much.

 

1 hour ago, 0 Def Cleric said:

Anyway, worst parent in the series is Naga, because who leaves their daughter all alone for a thousand years when they're aware that she could go on a rampage? Naga ends her own life, as stated in Mystery- she could have easily gone on living and monitoring Tiki to make sure she wasn't a danger to herself or others, but no, apparently ascending to a higher plane of existence to protect humanity was far more important than, you know, actively protecting humanity by making sure your nuclear-powered kid doesn't go mad. 

I think SoV might have hurt Naga, if her one of her fangs was made into the Valentian Falchions. Since, she'd have given a fang before and lived, why should extracting another tooth or two hundreds of years later kill her? Without SoV, it's possible fang removal to forge the Falchion (and the base of the Binding Shield?) was a fatal act.

And, we've never had a Tiki actually talk about her mother. Awakening's limited interactions between the two beings never had them speak of their maternal-filial bond. Although, it is possible Tiki settled that 1000 years prior when she could have met Naga then.

[Acacia Sgt]

4 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

I think SoV might have hurt Naga, if her one of her fangs was made into the Valentian Falchions. Since, she'd have given a fang before and lived, why should extracting another tooth or two hundreds of years later kill her? Without SoV, it's possible fang removal to forge the Falchion (and the base of the Binding Shield?) was a fatal act.

And, we've never had a Tiki actually talk about her mother. Awakening's limited interactions between the two beings never had them speak of their maternal-filial bond. Although, it is possible Tiki settled that 1000 years prior when she could have met Naga then.

Don't forget, she also had her trip to Jugdral, which was around fifty years before her death. The Archanean Falchion was created long before that, so it's very much unlikely it was that which killed her. What actually ended Naga's life? Hard to tell. Only that she was aware of her impending demise, to do all the stuff she did shortly before it happened.

[Jotari]

8 hours ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

I was thinking of that conversation when I wrote it. It did help Travant's character a bit, just as Tahra made Arion seem smart, which well, he kinda sorta needed that after his very complicated "mistake" in FE4.

Though, the Travant-Altena convo seemed a bit too much focused on him and his Thracia desires, not enough on interacting with Altena. Though him trusting the future to his children is good when I reexamine that convo. And, I shouldn't expect Travant to be too openly emotional as a father, expecting more free and loving conversation and behavior from him, might be asking for too much.

 

I think SoV might have hurt Naga, if her one of her fangs was made into the Valentian Falchions. Since, she'd have given a fang before and lived, why should extracting another tooth or two hundreds of years later kill her? Without SoV, it's possible fang removal to forge the Falchion (and the base of the Binding Shield?) was a fatal act.

And, we've never had a Tiki actually talk about her mother. Awakening's limited interactions between the two beings never had them speak of their maternal-filial bond. Although, it is possible Tiki settled that 1000 years prior when she could have met Naga then.

What I was doing posting that conversation was showing an interaction that lacked abuse of some sort, rather than showing him actually being nice to Altena. Which is a really, really low bar to set. But hey it is a bar.

[Baron the Shining Blade]

“…No matter how I warn him, he comes. Why is it that the very sight of him tries my patience so? He is truly of my own flesh and blood, yet…”

Gotta go with Desmond. Trying to kill your child is bad enough, sure, but could it be anymore sad and pedantic when your motive is nothing more than pure jealousy? Zephiel excelled at everything whereas his father was a master of none. Why any parent would be anything but proud of their children exceeding their expectations is beyond me. If not for Sonia and the Fang's influence, perhaps he might, just might have gotten wise to his own jealousy and selfishness and accepted his son. It is pretty telling when you interpret your (albeit illegitimate) daughter wanting to play with her brother instead of you as him "stealing [her] love" from you. *Cuckoo! Cuckoo!*

And speaking of Guinivere, I really have to wonder, would Desmond have felt the same way if she were the one that excelled at everything instead of Zephiel? Would he actually be proud simply because he favors her over Zephiel? Pity then he never sees the impressive Anima + Light Sage she becomes. 😛 Even still, I'm not so sure, especially when Hellene had this to say (though she may have just been trying to hit a nerve):

Hellene:
“We are here in this manse, while you live in the palace with…that woman. You must be so disappointed that she bore you not a prince but a princess.”

Desmond:
“Hellene! You go too far!!”

[Jotari]

3 hours ago, Baron the Shining Blade said:

“…No matter how I warn him, he comes. Why is it that the very sight of him tries my patience so? He is truly of my own flesh and blood, yet…”

Gotta go with Desmond. Trying to kill your child is bad enough, sure, but could it be anymore sad and pedantic when your motive is nothing more than pure jealousy? Zephiel excelled at everything whereas his father was a master of none. Why any parent would be anything but proud of their children exceeding their expectations is beyond me. If not for Sonia and the Fang's influence, perhaps he might, just might have gotten wise to his own jealousy and selfishness and accepted his son. It is pretty telling when you interpret your (albeit illegitimate) daughter wanting to play with her brother instead of you as him "stealing [her] love" from you. *Cuckoo! Cuckoo!*

And speaking of Guinivere, I really have to wonder, would Desmond have felt the same way if she were the one that excelled at everything instead of Zephiel? Would he actually be proud simply because he favors her over Zephiel? Pity then he never sees the impressive Anima + Light Sage she becomes. 😛 Even still, I'm not so sure, especially when Hellene had this to say (though she may have just been trying to hit a nerve):

Hellene:
“We are here in this manse, while you live in the palace with…that woman. You must be so disappointed that she bore you not a prince but a princess.”

Desmond:
“Hellene! You go too far!!”

Pity we never get to see the (literally) game breaking light sage she becomes during the actual story. Why doesn't Guinevere fight if she is all that capable? Reluctance to fight her country men? No, that wouldn't explain the western isles. Cowardice? Not really, stealing the Fire Emblem was quite daring of her. Pacifism? Maybe, but she is directly urging Roy to kill her brother so she'd have no moral standing for pacifism there.

[Etrurian emperor]

On 9/21/2019 at 5:58 AM, Jotari said:

Pity we never get to see the (literally) game breaking light sage she becomes during the actual story. Why doesn't Guinevere fight if she is all that capable? Reluctance to fight her country men? No, that wouldn't explain the western isles. Cowardice? Not really, stealing the Fire Emblem was quite daring of her. Pacifism? Maybe, but she is directly urging Roy to kill her brother so she'd have no moral standing for pacifism there.

Well she's absent during the western isles right? Roy has been protecting her thus far but after Ostia she's protected by Cecilia instead who's not on the western island at that point. So not wanting to end Bernese lives could still be the reason.

Personally I just don't think she's got the stomach for it. She seems emotionally troubled after all that's happened so she might just be unable to bring herself to murder people herself. 

[Jotari]

10 minutes ago, Etrurian emperor said:

Well she's absent during the western isles right? Roy has been protecting her thus far but after Ostia she's protected by Cecilia instead who's not on the western island at that point. So not wanting to end Bernese lives could still be the reason.

Personally I just don't think she's got the stomach for it. She seems emotionally troubled after all that's happened so she might just be unable to bring herself to murder people herself. 

Of course the real reason is IS didn't want to pull the whole retreating plot important character for anyone but Merlinus.

[Acacia Sgt]

Is it even stated somewhere in the game outside the Trial Maps that she can, indeed, use magic? For all we know that was just a little bonus thrown in. I do remember her trying to use a dagger/sword when Miredy was ordered to take her back to Bern in Ch13. Other than that... nothing that I recall.

Anyway...

On 9/20/2019 at 5:52 PM, Baron the Shining Blade said:

And speaking of Guinivere, I really have to wonder, would Desmond have felt the same way if she were the one that excelled at everything instead of Zephiel? Would he actually be proud simply because he favors her over Zephiel?

I would actually think so.

THe thing with Desmond's hatred towards Zephiel is that he's kinda venting/directing his anger. He hates having been roped in a political marriage, more so since it prevented him from marrying the woman he actually loves. So he discharges that hatred to the people involved. That is, Hellene; and Zephiel by proxy, being the result of that marriage he so hates.

It's kinda tragic. Had that arranged marriage not happened, Desmond would likely be quite a different man. We only see him after years of clinging and feeding that hatred, after all. So that's plenty of time for him to change a whole lot from his younger self.

[Etrurian emperor]

I believe Guinevere also says Zephiel being so gifted angered her father because he himself was only a mediocre king which was made all the more apparent by Zephiel's talents. 

[Emperor Hardin]

Desmond is definitely the most developed bad parent in Fire Emblem, so he gets my vote. Whilst not as bad as her husband, Hellene wasn't great either, as she inadvertently made her son a target by fueling her husband's hatred of Zephiel and his delusion that there was a competition to succeed the throne between Guinevere and Zephiel.

12 hours ago, Etrurian emperor said:

I believe Guinevere also says Zephiel being so gifted angered her father because he himself was only a mediocre king which was made all the more apparent by Zephiel's talents. 

Another thing to consider is Desmond considers Guinevere his child, whilst Zephiel he believes is plotting to usurp the throne from Guinevere due to him being the result of the hatred marriage between him and Hellene. At one point, Desmond even expresses doubt to Zephiel's parentage, even though he's obviously his son.

Desmond: Zephiel and I are opposites in every way. It is hard to believe that he is my son.

Zephiel's talents and popularity made Desmond view him as a threat to Guinevere becoming Bern's ruler. His final assassination attempt on Zephiel, the one that finally caused his son to snap, was said to be done in response to the public demanding Zephiel succeed the throne.

Guinivere: But Zephiel held strong. He always said he never cared about inheriting the throne. But the people of Bern knew of Zephiel's genius and wanted him king. Pressured by the public, our father lost his patience at last... 

In a ironic twist of events, it was Desmond's paranoia and attempts on Zephiel's life that caused his son to kill him and take the throne!