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Unanswered story questions/cliffhanger even after you played the game? (major spoiler warning)

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On 12/5/2019 at 2:17 AM, KelluPato said:

You are unable to read all of the parts of a specific book/doctrine in the library because...why?

I can’t remember which one it is, I believe it is the founding of the Church? But it goes 1, 2, then 5 I think.  What information is the game hiding from us?

You're talking about the Book of Seiros. Maybe the censored part of the book directly contradict the existence of the 10 elites (possibly something like how the hero relics are evil) : the book was likely made when Seiros made her first appearance before starting the war against Nemesis, and there's evidence her initial plan was to eradicate all 10 elites and their bloodlines.

The history book mention the war, which is described as "senseless", was ended several years after Nemesis's death by the grandson of the the first emperor. Remember that the official history (AKA lie) state that the elites was on Seiros side since the beginning, so it doesn't make sense that the war would keep going long after the King of Liberation's death, especially if Seiros intended to spare the elites. This show she was instead forced to do it after she lost support from the emperor and his army.

Edited by Modirufa6317

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One thing that does bug me is that they never tell how Dimitri came believe that Edelgard was the master behind the tragedy of Duscur. I mean Edelgard was around same age as him, so wouldn’t it be hard to believe child could be responsible for a massacre? On a similar note, It’s never actually stated how Thales made it look like the Tragedy of Duscur was caused by the Flame Emperor. 

I’m also a little surprised that Edelgard never mentions being step siblings with Dimitri, despite Dimitri mentioning it.

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I think it's a case of his anger blinding his judgment. He has real reason to suspect Arundel, then learns that someone called the Flame Emperor is doing some bad stuff, then that the Flame Emperor and Arundel/Thales are allies. And he's in such a blind rage at the reveal of the Flame Emperor's identity that he can't see how little sense it makes.

Also, even though Dimitri clearly still has feelings for her, she definitely seems to have moved on. In her ball Goddess Tower scene, she talks about their past without mentioning Dimitri's name, and in a very detached manner. She may (maybe) still consider him a friend, but whatever deeper feelings she may have had are gone.

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Edelgard remembers her friend from Faerghus and implies that he was her first love, but she doesn't remember that said friend is Dimitri. She only makes the connection if he calls her El, and she's quite touched when she remembers him. The common theory is that the trauma she went through afterwards messed with her memory.

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I think he doesnt really think that she was the mastermind behind the tragedy, but that she helped or supported the guys that did it. When the Flame Emperor asks you to join him asnd that he has nothing to do with the slitherers and you tell that to dimitri he says something like "at least he is affiliated to them, that makes him guilty".

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9 hours ago, Lightchao42 said:

The common theory is that the trauma she went through afterwards messed with her memory.

Meh, I've heard one or two people say that, but I don't buy it. The only thing I can think of where they might be getting that is the Goddess Tower scene, where she says "I can't say the name." I think people are interpreting that as "I don't remember his name," where to me it sounded like her typical "not revealing too much about her past" stuff. As in, "I don't want to say his name." And unless there's some massive piece of evidence in SS, I don't know where the hell else people could be getting this from.

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14 hours ago, Sid Starkiller said:

Meh, I've heard one or two people say that, but I don't buy it.

It's heavily implied both in Black Eagles and Blue Lions she barely remembers Dimitri actually.

- Like others have already said, if Byleth asks her in the Goddess Tower who was her first love, Edelgard says she can't say their name. In the japanese version she's even more explicit by saying she doesn't remember his name.

- Edelgard's A support with Byleth explicitly says there's no one left alive to call her El anymore, which is quickly proven wrong in CF Chapter 17 by Dimitri himself in his execution scene as long Dedue dies as a Demonic Beast. After she explains the beef he had with her due to being associated with the people responsible for the Tragedy of Duscur, she almost cries in what is the only scene in all routes where she shows pity for him.

- In the end of Chapter 2 of Blue Lions, Dimitri sees Edelgard leaving with Manuela to some mission and he, being the good guy he is, tells her to be careful out there. Edelgard's reaction to his worry is more or less something like "...why are you telling me to be careful? Have you no faith in my abilities?", which makes no sense for her to say if we assume she knows/remembers Dimitri is the same kid who gave her a dagger all those years ago.

- Lastly, right before Azure Moon's endgame, Dimitri giving Edelgard back her dagger pretty much triggers the flashback about their last meeting, and before leaving she even says something among the the lines of "Thank you, my dear forgotten friend".

Edited by Moltz23

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OK, now it makes more sense with that extra info. Thanks.

Still think the execution is sloppy, though. I'm almost wondering if it was unintentional, like maybe their shared backstory was supposed to happen earlier in their lives, where she could've forgotten naturally (in her and Hubert's B support, she says both that she barely remembers the day they met, and that she was 4 at the time. It makes sense that she would forget that far back). Then they moved it forward in the timeline, and this theory patches up a plot hole. But who knows.

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It's possible. Three Houses is guilty of doing a lot of "tell, don't show" so it's very easy to miss some foreshadowing and even important plot points without meaning to.

Edited by Moltz23

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On 12/13/2019 at 10:06 PM, Moltz23 said:

It's possible. Three Houses is guilty of doing a lot of "tell, don't show" so it's very easy to miss some foreshadowing and even important plot points without meaning to.

Can you elaborate on this? "Show don't tell" is more a literary term than game/cinema and even then isn't used properly as a general critique. So I'm kind of confused by what you mean here.

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7 hours ago, CyberNinja said:

Can you elaborate on this? "Show don't tell" is more a literary term than game/cinema and even then isn't used properly as a general critique. So I'm kind of confused by what you mean here.

The game tells you a lot of things rather than visually showing it as video games are a form of visual storytelling.

Two notable examples off the top of my head:

-The Remire calamity, instead of seeing the villagers and their calamity you instead watch your students reacting to it

-Edelgard’s route ending, how it says that they defeated TWSITD but we were never shown anything, map, dialogue, cinematic... it was thrown in at the ending  

The game is littered with examples like this, and I know that going the extra mile requires time and money, however the writing came across as rather lazy in these scenarios, and the developers did not take full advantage of their medium. 

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9 hours ago, CyberNinja said:

Can you elaborate on this?

@KelluPato already explained what I meant, but if you want a few more examples:

-Dimitri's death in Vedant Wind where Hilda tells us how he met his demise instead of us seeing it.

-Everything involving Claude's past and probably also Rhea's.

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^ Along similar lines, I've just finished my first route, that being Golden Deer, and there's absolutely no closure to the Rhea thing. On the 30th she's still just sick and all that, then on the 31st the final fight happens, then one of the afterthought ending cards just sort of implies she's gone. Eh? Did I miss something? I think Nemesis also has a line saying that she was present at the battle when she is most decidedly not. In general the ending just weirded me out and gave no real satisfaction, vindicating my belief that the story should have ended at Edelgard.

 

P.S. Yes, I took five months to finish one route and so I know my opinions of the story are about four months late. I burnt out hard on the game and took a 2-month break with three chapters left, even.

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Is it ever stated why Caspar/Linhart's fathers support Edelgard? I've heard people say that it's because they were eager to retake Kingdom/Alliance lands but I don't know where that is stated exactly. If that's what Edelgard promised them, was it always her intention to conquer all of Fodlan? She spreads her manifesto around the continent but I wonder what it said exactly. "Join me or die"? I don't think there was the option to be neutral in the conflict if she planned on taking control of the other countries regardless. 

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5 minutes ago, NekoKnight said:

Is it ever stated why Caspar/Linhart's fathers support Edelgard? I've heard people say that it's because they were eager to retake Kingdom/Alliance lands but I don't know where that is stated exactly. If that's what Edelgard promised them, was it always her intention to conquer all of Fodlan? She spreads her manifesto around the continent but I wonder what it said exactly. "Join me or die"? I don't think there was the option to be neutral in the conflict if she planned on taking control of the other countries regardless. 

An exact reason is never given so all we can do is guess. They could genuinely believe in Edelgard's ideals or they could just have been fed up with the prime minister. 

We do know that Edelgard and count Bergliez at least respect each other even if they don't like each other according to Caspar. An NPC says count Bergliez is the only noble that Edelgard allows free reign.

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27 minutes ago, NekoKnight said:

Is it ever stated why Caspar/Linhart's fathers support Edelgard? I've heard people say that it's because they were eager to retake Kingdom/Alliance lands but I don't know where that is stated exactly.

Ferdinand mentions in the monastery before the timeskip many of the imperial houses still cling to the dream of an unified Fodlan, so I assume that's what they meant by it. And considering when Edelgard's nobility cleanup happens it's mentioned in-game the purged noble houses were either corrupt or opposed the new emperor's conquest, that makes even more likely both Count Bergliez and Count Hevring fully support what Edelgard wants to do.

Edited by Moltz23

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Just now, Moltz23 said:

Ferdinand mentions in the monastery before the timeskip many of the imperial houses still cling to the dream of an unified Fodlan, so I assume that's what they meant by it. And considering when Edelgard's nobility cleanup happens it's mentioned in-game the purged noble houses were either corrupt or opposed the new emperor's conquest, that makes even more likely both Count Bergliez and Count Hevring fully support what Edelgard wants to do.

That makes sense, but as I mentioned earlier, it makes Edelgard out to be a conqueror who intends to subjugate the kingdom and alliance even if they don't ally with the church. I also question the loyalty of Bergliez and Hevring considering Edelgard is open about her intention to abolish the nobility and restructure the government to appoint people she likes to positions of power. Sure enough, Caspar is made the Minister of Military affairs ahead of his older brother.

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1 hour ago, NekoKnight said:

That makes sense, but as I mentioned earlier, it makes Edelgard out to be a conqueror who intends to subjugate the kingdom and alliance even if they don't ally with the church. I also question the loyalty of Bergliez and Hevring considering Edelgard is open about her intention to abolish the nobility and restructure the government to appoint people she likes to positions of power. Sure enough, Caspar is made the Minister of Military affairs ahead of his older brother.

I definitely read Bergliez at least as being on-board for both the reunification of Fodlan and war in general (since as Minister of Military Affairs, war naturally makes him more relevant/powerful). And yes, the implication is that Edelgard knew that it would likely come to war (also supported by her various comments in Part 1 that she knows what's coming). Yes, yes, she released a manifesto and in her perfect dream of reality I'm sure she would like it if every Kingdom/Alliance noble just said "sure, sounds good" but that was never realistic.

I'd still have loved to see more of some of these political figures, though.

Bergliez and Hevring supporting Edelgard despite her intention to abolish the nobility makes perfect sense. Yes, she's going to restructure the government and change who holds positions of power. But who is basically assured to continue holding positions of power? Those who support her and show themselves capable in that support... i.e. Bergliez and Hevring.

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5 hours ago, Dark Holy Elf said:

Bergliez and Hevring supporting Edelgard despite her intention to abolish the nobility makes perfect sense. Yes, she's going to restructure the government and change who holds positions of power. But who is basically assured to continue holding positions of power? Those who support her and show themselves capable in that support... i.e. Bergliez and Hevring.

This is something I find a bit questionable. Noble families in the past Adrestia got their meal ticket simply for existing. Sure, the amount of political power they have is dependent on a lot of factors in how they manage their existing influence but they did have a divine right backing them. I don't know if the Bergliez are implied to have any crests but Hevring do. They might improve their wealth and power through the war or they might be creating a system in which they can be replaced, and not even by one of their own kind, but by people of lower birth. Their previous hereditary positions are now being changed to ones they have to earn. It's a pretty big gamble for people who are already in powerful positions in the empire.

Considering how important these two people are in the story, it's a shame that their motivations are left to players to speculate.

Edited by NekoKnight

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Just finished my Blue Lions auto battle/support grinding playthrough and wow, Rhea's role in that route is...yikes.

So in the BylethxAlois support, Alois claims Jeralt's secret is crest-infused blood. In gameplay he has that Crest of Seiros, but I'm curious if the church really is capable of implanting crests in people. I thought that was just a Slitherers thing? Or is Jeralt a child of the goddess and "crest-infused blood" is synonymous with just possessing a crest naturally?

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3 hours ago, Glennstavos said:

Just finished my Blue Lions auto battle/support grinding playthrough and wow, Rhea's role in that route is...yikes.

So in the BylethxAlois support, Alois claims Jeralt's secret is crest-infused blood. In gameplay he has that Crest of Seiros, but I'm curious if the church really is capable of implanting crests in people. I thought that was just a Slitherers thing? Or is Jeralt a child of the goddess and "crest-infused blood" is synonymous with just possessing a crest naturally?

Huh ? I thought crests were the blood itself ?
Jeralt got injured while protecting Rhea, she infused her blood to him, so he got a Seiros Crest. That originally how the first emperor got his Seiros Crest too, blood transfusion.
Same with Linhardt if I recall.

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48 minutes ago, B.Leu said:

Huh ? I thought crests were the blood itself ?
Jeralt got injured while protecting Rhea, she infused her blood to him, so he got a Seiros Crest. That originally how the first emperor got his Seiros Crest too, blood transfusion.
Same with Linhardt if I recall.

Well I don't know if Crests are just the blood or some other genetic feature or condition passed through the genes. The people of Fodlan are convinced it's genetic. If a blood transfusion always passed on a crest without fail, then one wonders why the people of Fodlan don't exploit that. Of course, in our real world, transfusing blood between two people with different blood types is dangerous to fatal, so they'd need some way to categorize blood types in order to avoid needless death. 

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14 minutes ago, Glennstavos said:

Well I don't know if Crests are just the blood or some other genetic feature or condition passed through the genes. The people of Fodlan are convinced it's genetic. If a blood transfusion always passed on a crest without fail, then one wonders why the people of Fodlan don't exploit that. Of course, in our real world, transfusing blood between two people with different blood types is dangerous to fatal, so they'd need some way to categorize blood types in order to avoid needless death. 

Huh, that's a good question ! Good call on the blood type !
In one of Linhardt support, it's said that it's possible to gain a crest via transfusion, that how he gained his if I remember correctly.

Maybe it's forbidden and/or part of Rhea propaganda, like transfusing Saint Crest are fine, but Hero Crest is a no go. I always assumed that to be honest.

But Lys gained her second crest, which is not a Saint Crest at all, but that was done by TWDITD, and they have less... morality about stuffs.
Of course, I fail to see the scientifical way to put a second crest into someone who already has it... Maybe that why El and Lys have "health problems", it could be life having two kind of blood inside of you, but obviously the body is not make to have have that.

Maybe Fodlan do have some form to categorize blood, but TWDITD do too, but experiment anyways because they don't care and just want result and easy pawns ?

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For a review on Crest lore,

Spoiler

Nemesis stole Sothis's blood to get the Crest of Flames and the Ten Elites got their Crests from the Nabateans that Nemesis killed at Zanado. Nabateans can give people their Crests via blood transfusion with seemingly no ill effects, which happened with Jeralt and the ancestors of everyone else with a Saint's Crest. Those who slither in the dark have a different procedure that usually results in the victims going insane and/or dying, which is how Lysithea got her Crests.

 

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