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Good reasons for recruiting units from other classes


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30 minutes ago, Seafarer said:

Is it reasonable to have Lysithea's Reason at B in C4 if you recruit her to another house? I haven't actually used her except in the final map of Silver Snow, and being able to wreck C4!DK would give her an edge over Sylvain.

I doubt it. Also, I'm not sure, bit I think DK would have more Res than Def there too (someone else feel free to correct me if i'm wrong).

28 minutes ago, wissenschaft said:

I don't think so. Though its not actually hard to beat Death Knight in chapter 4. All you need is a Horseslayer and a character with KnightKneeler combat art (they stack). Then just deal cheap damage with gambits still you can oneshot with knightkneeler. Every house has someone that can excel a lances.

I doubt it - DK is on an avoid tile there, and thanks to Commander, he cannot be moved off it, which means whoever you try to do it with is dead meat if you whiff (and odds are you're facing non-trivial miss chances).

Edited by Shadow Mir
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14 minutes ago, Shadow Mir said:

I doubt it. Also, I'm not sure, bit I think DK would have more Res than Def there too (someone else feel free to correct me if i'm wrong).

I doubt it - DK is on an avoid tile there, and thanks to Commander, he cannot be moved off it, which means whoever you try to do it with is dead meat if you whiff (and odds are you're facing non-trivial miss chances).

Its call Divine Pulse. Worse case you try the chapter again. But your hit rates should not be that bad, around 50 to 60%. Its very doable for every house.

Edited by wissenschaft
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45 minutes ago, wissenschaft said:

I don't think so. Though its not actually hard to beat Death Knight in chapter 4. All you need is a Horseslayer and a character with KnightKneeler combat art (they stack). Then just deal cheap damage with gambits still you can oneshot with knightkneeler. Every house has someone that can excel a lances.

Huh. They do stack. Though additively, so it's only ×3 weapon Mt, not ×4. Lance of Ruin is still better, because 22 ×2 > 8 ×3.

When do you get the first Horseslayer? Or are they buyable...? I think they are, aren't they.

EDIT: @Shadow Mir I got Sylvain to 80 listed hit in C6 with Lance of Ruin, so it's not like it's really bad hit rates.

Edited by Seafarer
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12 minutes ago, wissenschaft said:

Its call Divine Pulse. Worse case you try the chapter again. But your hit rates should not be that bad, around 50 to 60%. Its very doable for every house.

Counterpoint: Divine Pulse doesn't change the RNG, and you'll eventually run out.

Edited by Shadow Mir
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6 minutes ago, Shadow Mir said:

Counterpoint: Divine Pulse doesn't change the RNG, and you'll eventually run out.

It doesn't change the RNG seed but you can change the order your students attack. You can have a student attack some other enemy unit just to change the RNG number your currently at and then try to hit deathknight again. As I said, the worse case you just restart the chapter because its pretty quick to set up killing Death Knight. Its honestly not that hard to do at all. If you haven't done it yourself, trust me. You can do it. It just take a little bit of effort.

Edited by wissenschaft
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Sylvain is indeed a good recruit and I don't even have to use my new big bias for him to explain why!

Like the OP said, he's easy to get if you're playing female Byleth, he'll join automatically if you ask him to. And he can be a really good unit, he was valuable in my Golden Deer run as a Great Knight. Apparently Dark Knight is a really good class for him too. But I think Great Knight is equally good, it turns him into a crazy tank that'll take next to no damage from physical attacks and hit like a truck.

Also, the Lance of Ruin and Ruined Sky are a good weapon and skill combo as pointed out.

So gameplay alone is a good reason to get him, but I think you're getting an awesome character too as a bonus! He's a really good example of how Fodlan's society is screwy because he has some questionable behavior at first. But he also has some insecurities and inner conflicting interests which are the cause of that behavior and if you really get to know him, he's actually quite the lovable sweetie! Get him a paired ending with any girl he can get one with and that pretty much proves that he is really set on being the best man and husband he can be.

And did I mention he's attractive and has the most amazing smile? I don't even think he's actually faking it, he just naturally looks so pleasant and handsome. Just look at my new avy! How can any girl just care about his crest and not him? Poor boy. I can't help it, I absolutely adore him now! ❤️

I actually failed to get him S supported with Byleth in my first playthrough though and I was so mad at myself for awhile for not doing quite everything I should have to get it. But when I go Blue Lions route next (did Golden Deer first), I'm NOT screwing it up this time.

Anyway, I also agree with those saying Lysithea is a good one to recruit. She makes short work of Death Knight if you trained her well and it's not as common to have a high Magic/high Res unit as it is to have units with good Str or Def or Spd.

Raphael turned out really good as a gauntlet user for me too, his Str was really really high. I recommend him for that as well.

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Mercedes is one of the greatest healers in the game, and is one of 2 to learn Fortify. Live to Serve makes keeping her healthy very easy, and Rafail Gem disables Criticals, making her very bulky especially on magic side. 

I agree with recruiting Petra since she is one of the most menacing units as an enemy, in addition to the positives said above. 

Annette shouldn’t be recruited for offense; Lysithea is a better choice for that. Rather she’s probably the best rally unit in the game, since she learns 4, including Rally Movement. Great option for Dancer and Gremory.

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1 hour ago, Seafarer said:

Is it reasonable to have Lysithea's Reason at B in C4 if you recruit her to another house? I haven't actually used her except in the final map of Silver Snow, and being able to wreck C4!DK would give her an edge over Sylvain.

Only in NG+. In my first game I recruited her like C9 or so, it was way later and after much struggling with the Death Knight. But on every playthrough since, I always just up her to Reason B right away, so it's just easier and quicker!

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7 hours ago, Chaotix said:

-Caspar and Raphael are built for becoming a Fortress Knight or War Master, which are just not great classes as far as efficiency is concerned. They're great at what they do, but what they do is suboptimal. They can go wyvern instead, but they're not as good as other picks and they bring nothing to the table.

This is not necessarily true(or rather, fair), both have an easy time into wyvern(one strength, no weakness) and Caspar's personal is legitimately nice to have in many situations, since axes like the extra accuracy. Raphael gets his speed fixed by WL's base+mod and has easy access to weight-3; he otherwise brings potent durability and great damage(gets a +mt support from Ignatz, too, although it's not that relevant here since they're from the same route). Definitely not essentials and won't always shine on the path to wyvern, but once there they're not underwhelming, they'll clear you the game just fine.
I think I've ran my mouth about Annette way more than I should have already, and I'd never pretend she's an essential recruit anyway.

3 hours ago, ApocaLips said:

His shield also makes him exceptionally durable. I don’t think anyone has cracked the numbers, but in my experience it has about a 50% chance to proc on any attack and halves damage, on top of what I think is the highest stat total of any shield (6 def 3 res). The weight isn’t hard to offset with weight skills and his high str. Don’t need a second character to trigger the paralogue, and it’s available somewhat into part 1.

See I agree with the rates, but got some pretty bad surprises when I tried to rely on his tanking; in the end he otherwise has pretty mediocre natural durability(magical especially), meaning in many cases it amounts to tossing a coin. Which is not that big a deal considering DP and all, but I don't know, I think it's nice to be reliable in that department, and he's kinda not. And +6 weight on top of weapon is pretty bad still, especially if it's axes; one way or another, it cuts into his offense. I just don't use the thing anymore, it's cute but I don't think it really makes him a better unit outside of speedster classes.
He's still amazing however, especially early on. Gets stuff dead better than most anyone else. I will say that he has a bit of a tougher time getting into wyvern lord than most physical units due to being neutral in everything, and a weakness in authority is always a bit of a problem. But overall he probably will not disappoint, his stats are just too good.

2 hours ago, ZeManaphy said:

I agree with recruiting Petra since she is one of the most menacing units as an enemy, in addition to the positives said above. 

You know, I kind of have to say guys, in the end considering the tools we have I don't see the big deal. She's a foot unit stuck at one range with manageable charisma, two gambits(that can be made safe through canto, or range) and she's generally out.

Edited by Cysx
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Seconding Ashe having so much utility with Locktouch. 

Lorenz is tailor made for dark knight, and Thrysus on top of it gives him the most ridiculous range. That said, Lysithea can also use Thrysus so you could just snap him up and give it to her. 

Mercedes is the best healer in the game, but you need Caspar for her paralogue. 

Marianne makes an excellent dancer unit. Just hand her a levin sword and watch. Honestly just hand her a levin sword in any class you put her in. 

The black eagles are the only ones that get a bit shafted as far as being the best for a class or having special utility from my experience, mostly from Hubert being locked down. (Dorothea is built for dancer, but I feel Marianne edges her out by having a relic.)

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3 hours ago, Seafarer said:

EDIT: @Shadow Mir I got Sylvain to 80 listed hit in C6 with Lance of Ruin, so it's not like it's really bad hit rates.

He's not on an avoid tile in that chapter (iirc), so it's much more feasible there.

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50 minutes ago, Altrosa said:

The black eagles are the only ones that get a bit shafted as far as being the best for a class or having special utility from my experience, mostly from Hubert being locked down. (Dorothea is built for dancer, but I feel Marianne edges her out by having a relic.)

I think Dorothea does better as a Gremory so her long range spells can get double usage. Marianne does feel like the best dancer in the game. I think Marianne is the first dancer in the series that is also an effective fighter.

Edited by wissenschaft
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52 minutes ago, Cysx said:

You know, I kind of have to say guys, in the end considering the tools we have I don't see the big deal. She's a foot unit stuck at one range with manageable charisma, two gambits(that can be made safe through canto, or range) and she's generally out.

I don't think you were here back then, but remember all the complaints about Kotaro in Conquest? This is even worse than that. Hell, this reminds me of Lunatic Grima. Needing to use attacks that I can only use twice a map at most just to have a chance is NOT a position I want to be in.

Edited by Shadow Mir
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4 minutes ago, Shadow Mir said:

I don't think you were here back then, but remember all the complaints about Kotaro in Conquest? This is even worse than that. Hell, this reminds me of Lunatic Grima. Needing to use attacks that I can only use twice a map at most just to have a chance is NOT a position I want to be in.

That's twice per character though(well, not always admittedly), which you have a dozen of. The difference with Kotaro is that you had to deal with his high dodge, but here, you don't.

Edited by Cysx
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Petra is a pain in the ass to deal with as an enemy as far as I could tell, at least late in the game. I barely could ever hit her because my units' hit rate against her would be really low. I had to just get lucky with someone. 😕 Not good game design at all.

Maybe I should recruit her this time so I don't have to fight her...

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36 minutes ago, hinode said:

Divine Pulse didn't exist in Conquest, which made the RNG more obnoxious. Especially if you wanted the speedwings from keeping Saizo alive, which I'd imagine most players did.

But casual mode did exist. And lets be real, using Divine Pulse is the same as playing on casual and just saving mid mission.

Edited by wissenschaft
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44 minutes ago, Cysx said:

That's twice per character though(well, not always admittedly), which you have a dozen of. The difference with Kotaro is that you had to deal with his high dodge, but here, you don't.

Needless to say, not all your gambits are gonna be offensive ones... Nor will they be two-use ones. Also, it was possible to make Kotaro easier to hit by baiting him into using the Flame Shuriken, which has a massive avoid penalty. You have no such luck here.

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13 minutes ago, Shadow Mir said:

Needless to say, not all your gambits are gonna be offensive ones... Nor will they be two-use ones. Also, it was possible to make Kotaro easier to hit by baiting him into using the Flame Shuriken, which has a massive avoid penalty. You have no such luck here.

The point being, you should still have enough uses unless you spam them; her chapters aren't even demonic beasts heavy.
There's also the fact that Kotaro is the chapter boss while Petra can be ignored(more or less easily depending on the route/chapter), but most importantly... just use gambits man. Low uses doesn't mean they magically don't exist, and no character uses them as their main source of damage, not even Hubert(who cannot face Petra anyway).

Edited by Cysx
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I'd recommend recruiting anyone you're going to have a use for. Most maps are 10 character slots, and you start off with typically 9 characters. I'd say it usually depends on who you're trying to replace. However, there are some characters that stand out to me in particular.

Black Eagles

  • Ferdinand is a great character to work with because he has 4 boons and no banes. He's easily one of the most physically versatile units in the game. He'll turn out decent with gauntlets and bows despite not having a boon in them too. He doesn't have to be a Cavalier every time either. He'd make a fine Mercenary/Hero, Archer/Sniper, Brigand/Warrior/Wyvern Rider/etc. And because of his boons in Riding and Lances, it is very easy for him to slip into any master class. You could also make him a dancer and he can become one of the best dodge tanks in the game. You can always find a use for Ferdie.
  • Petra is a really versatile unit as well. She's also very fast and will most likely be able to crit a good amount of time. She can easily access Wyvern Lord and Bow Knight, which are a couple of the best classes in the game. Put her in anything physical and she'll get the job done.

Blue Lions

  • Felix has a Major crest, making him one of the best units in the game. He's also most likely able to double most of the time and his crest procs very often. He doesn't need to be in a master class to kick ass.
  • Mercedes is the best healer in the game. She also has access to the Rafail Gem, which is pretty useful. Although she's not versatile as a unit (you really want her in a support role), she excels at what she does best.
  • Sylvain is free for Bylass and is a nice recruit for Golden Deer. Since they don't have Ferdinand, Sylvain works really well on GD. His personal skill compliments with Leonie and Hilda well. Since they're all front liners usually, it wouldn't be too hard to put them next to each other to reap their bonuses.
  • Ingrid, like Ferdinand, has no weaknesses. She's awesome with riding and flying, which is great. I feel like the majority of the units in the game aren't going to be mounted in the early game and she's one of the characters that can easily access those classes.

Golden Deer

  • Lysithea is the best offensive mage in the game, no doubt. Definitely one of the easiest ways to kill DK requires her. Her spell list is pure offense AND it is dark magic. Since female units don't normally have access to dark magic since they can't become dark mages, this is great. She can also use Gloucester's Thyrsus wand, which makes her even more powerful because it gives her one more range. But I guess if you want to optimize her, you may want to recruit Lorenz as well.
  • Hilda is a great offensive unit with great axe abilities. She hits hard and fast. She can become Wyvern Lord easier than others thanks to her boons in axes and lances. Wyvern Lord is the best class in the game so any character who has some advantage to become it is at least decent. Thanks to Hilda's crest and growths, she's well above decent. She has a lot of competition in the forms of Edelgard and Petra, so it may be best to have her on the Blue Lions. Although her best supports are on Black Eagles, so she's a good addition to your party if you play the Church route. (Not that you can recruit her on CF anyways). 
  • Leonie, like Ferdie and Ingrid, has no weaknesses. She's also the best bow user in the game, but she can be good in other classes as well. She makes for a fine Paladin and Falcon Knight. Since she has no weaknesses, she can easily patch up a part of the team where you feel it is weak or where a niche isn't fulfilled. She does great on male-dominated teams.
  • Wow all of the GD girls kick ass.
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I forgot to mention you may want to recruit characters that share a paralogue with a character from another house. Cross-house paralogues are:

Spoiler

Ingrid & Dorothea (but Dorothea does NOT need to be recruited. But you should anyways because Dorothea was a wonderfully written character.) NOTE: this is the only cross-house paralogue before the timeskip. So for the others, you HAVE to recruit them in order to activate it.

Ferdinand & Lysithea

Caspar & Mercedes

Linhardt & Leonie

 

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I updated the first post, given some reasons for Linhardt, Caspar, Ferdinand, Bernadetta, Ignatz and Felix - some might not be the best reasons, but it's a good start.

@Dandy Druid Does Hilda remain strong on offense in Lunatic? I can see some issue coming up with her accuracy. I do like her, but the only thing I see from her is being a Freikugel wielding Wyvern Lord.

I think to get all the rewards from Dorothea + Ingrid paralogue, you need to have both of them on your team. Ingrid gets the Lúin lance, and Dorothea gets the Goddess Ring I believe. I'm trying to use Dorothea more, but the best offense she offers for me is Thoron so far.

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I'm going to make the argument for Ashe to be recruited no matter what. Let's go step by step.

Recruitment: B Support or 15 Charm and C Lance. On my first run, I never recruited anyone by way of B Support but C Lances is a prerequisite for Wyvern Lord!Byleth which means that training Lance rank actually doesn't go to waste. And since Leonie is the other recruit who requires C Lances, this is probably the one weapon rank that gives you the most bang for your buck in recruits, especially if you are playing BE (the other is Faith for Annette and Lysithea but Lysithea is an auto-recruit regardless). 15 Charm is an easy breakpoint with starting points of 7/45 for Byleth (50 growth rate at level 5).

I cannot see a negative to pushing immediately for an Ashe recruit and it also secures Leonie.

Lockpick: I don't think that this should be underestimated. First off, this skill saves you 300G per use and that money adds up over time. In addition, I never have to run a Thief or Assassin ever and that lets me make everyone (including my thief) into Deathblow wielding juggernauts. And lastly, I don't have to do convey shenanigans in map if I want to pick up multiple chests. That, just by itself, saves turns because Ashe can just race for the chests without caring that he doesn't have chest keys on himself.

Proficiencies: Hidden talent in Lances, up in Axes and Bows, down in Reason. Wyvern Rider only needs a C in Flying but it needs a B in Axes. Great, Ashe is now budget Claude by being naturally good at bows but also having help in 2 out of the three skills needed for Wyvern Rider.

Stats and Classes: Ashe's one major flaw is durability. 35/20 HP/Def are bad growth rates. However, his offensive power is perfect for what you need (a fast, airborne, reliable delete button on the way to chests) and those great proficiences help him out with good classes until Wyverns are available at Level 20. Brigand is Deathblow and Archer is Hit +20 (a shockingly good skill thanks to the RN in this game) while helping Ashe get to Close Counter quickly. During his Brigand years, Ashe is now working with 65 HP growth (no Def change) but he also now has 45/55/50 Str, Dex and Spd growths. That's incredibly good on a unit whose personal skill is entirely utility based and gains no additional damage bonuses. Ashe will not miss, he'll reliably double everything even with Axes and have more than enough Atk to eliminate everything in one round (or at least he does this on Hard Mode from very early on).

Outside of the Lords and probably Felix, who has offense this reliable in all three categories in the BL? Ingrid has Str issues because she went Peg Knight and stayed at 35 Str growth (along with no talent in Axes). Sylvain is looking down the barrel of 60 Hit on enemies. Annette can only survive one round of combat. Dedue is unrecruitable. Ashe's only weakness is his defense and he covers for it with Flying Canto and good enough growths.

Others: 5 Range Combat Arte on a 7 Move Unit who excels at Accuracy sounds really good. Yeah, Ashe also gets Deadeye. Focused Strike is +30 Hit for 3 uses so that might also be useful.

 

All in all, Ashe is the perfect thief who accidentially also became an offensive monster when nobody was looking. This is a "what if Matthew actually had reliable respectable offense" moment. I really cannot think of any student (especially from the BL including Felix who only brings offense to the table) that adds so much value to your team in so many different ways.

 

tl;dr Ashe for High Tier (not broken, just a really solid unit no matter what).

Edited by Life
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