Felix: Bow Knight or Swordmaster?

[Naoko_Akamori]

So, Felix is a bit of an odd duck for me. He presents himself as kind of the quintessential Swordmaster, and that's his 'canon' class (The one where he gets to keep his Part 2 look), but he also has proficiencies in Brawling and Bows as well. I'd heard talk about how he actually makes a pretty awesome Bow Knight, possibly a better Bow Knight than a Swordmaster even, so I was curious to hear from others who had tried both approaches with him. 

[wissenschaft]

Felix is probably the best physical unit in the game. The reason why he is a great bow knight is because unlike most archers in this game, he doesn't suffer from low STR growth.
 He can do very well in swordmaster but assassin has better movement and he'll still have 55% STR in the class which makes him the best assassin in the game.

Edited September 3, 2019 by wissenschaft

[Naoko_Akamori]

1 minute ago, wissenschaft said:

Felix is probably the best physical unit in the game. The reason why he is a great bow knight is because unlike most archers in this game, he doesn't suffer from low STR growth.
 He can do very well in swordmaster but assassin has better movement and he'll still have 55% STR in the class which makes him the best assassin in the game.

Alright - And since Assassin doesn't offer much more besides Locktouch and Stealth, Bow Knight is probably better anyway. My plan was to put him in Assassin until he hit Level 30 though. 20% extra Speed and Dex is very nice. 

 

[wissenschaft]

47 minutes ago, Naoko_Akamori said:

Alright - And since Assassin doesn't offer much more besides Locktouch and Stealth, Bow Knight is probably better anyway. My plan was to put him in Assassin until he hit Level 30 though. 20% extra Speed and Dex is very nice. 

 

If you can, put Felix in brigand as well so he can get death blow. EVEN MORE DAMAGE!

[Naoko_Akamori]

1 minute ago, wissenschaft said:

If you can, put Felix in brigand as well so he can get death blow. EVEN MORE DAMAGE!

Oh, he mastered Brigand first chance I got. 500 Renown for +6 Strength. 

[charcoalswift]

Brigand first for deathblow if you like that

Otherwise, go Mercenary for Vantage

Assassin has no STR growth, a bit worrying so Swordmaster is best for Felix if you ignore Wyvern Rider and Wyvern Lord

[PPPPPPP270]

The real advantage of swordmaster Felix is you only need A rank in swords to spec. This leave rooms to level up other stuff like authority or maybe even brawling for healing focus or for some reason if you want -3 weight/smite from armor. 

This might be preferable if your recruited Felix as he comes with high ranks in swords and brawling. Getting his bow rank up along with riding could take some time depending when you recruit him.

If you do BL route Felix can be made whatever physical and excel. You just have to think of an end goal at the start then go for it.

[charcoalswift]

21 minutes ago, PPPPPPP270 said:

The real advantage of swordmaster Felix is you only need A rank in swords to spec. 

S rank for +10 sword crit

[UNLEASH IT]

2 hours ago, charcoalswift said:

Brigand first for deathblow if you like that

Otherwise, go Mercenary for Vantage

Assassin has no STR growth, a bit worrying so Swordmaster is best for Felix if you ignore Wyvern Rider and Wyvern Lord

Assassin has more mov and the same base stats.

[charcoalswift]

2 hours ago, UNLEASH IT said:

Assassin has more mov and the same base stats.

I was talking about class growths, assassin has no STR, this is why people complain Petra does not hit hard

[Wolfen09]

I use him as a sword master, especially if you go brigand to mercenary.  Though his speed suffered some for me, his strength is overwhelming for a swordmaster.  Bow knights only advantage would be movement.

[dragontamer]

Three Houses maps are huge. I'm inclined to think that +movement classes are the most important.

That would be Assassin Felix (ignore terrain), Bow Knight Felix, or Wyvern Lord Felix.

[Jakkun]

They made a huge mistake by giving Swordmaster only 5 move. I think if you want Felix to be sticking with a Swordfaire class, Assassin is your best option. If Felix being the edgy sword dude isn't a concern for you, building around Bow Knight is probably more ideal.

I'm still mad there's no mounted Swordfaire class, then again swords always get shafted in FE.

[FoxyGrandpa]

2 hours ago, Jakkun said:

They made a huge mistake by giving Swordmaster only 5 move. I think if you want Felix to be sticking with a Swordfaire class, Assassin is your best option. If Felix being the edgy sword dude isn't a concern for you, building around Bow Knight is probably more ideal.

I'm still mad there's no mounted Swordfaire class, then again swords always get shafted in FE.

Well, I wouldn't say that. While the sword specialist classes in this game aren't that good, Swords are probably one of the better weapon types in this game in a vacuum due to their low weight and high hit rate. Lacking an easy 1-2 range option isn't as bad here since D Bows are much more useful than Javelins or Hand-Axes

[dragontamer]

29 minutes ago, FoxyGrandpa said:

Well, I wouldn't say that. While the sword specialist classes in this game aren't that good, Swords are probably one of the better weapon types in this game in a vacuum due to their low weight and high hit rate. Lacking an easy 1-2 range option isn't as bad here since D Bows are much more useful than Javelins or Hand-Axes

Swords main advantage is just being well rounded. Armorslayers are cheap and effective vs Armor. Grounder (some characters combat art) provides anti-air, Rapier provides anti-calvary, and Axebreaker is useful on almost every map. Sure, many bosses are immune to the +weapon damage, but there are many mooks in the game, and an extra +12 damage or so can often get you into OHKO territory.

Lance users only get anti-calvary (Knightkneeler, Beastkiller). Axes only get anti-armor (Mace / Hammer).

[timon]

4 hours ago, Jakkun said:

I'm still mad there's no mounted Swordfaire class, then again swords always get shafted in FE.

I'm not sure where that came from tbh, swords are always so excessively pushed in FE that it's refreshing that they're almost trash for once. Obviously it'd be nice to have something better for them than MS or Assassin, but still, I'm so happy that they didn't put swords everywhere (why would Bow Knight have a sword? Light cavalry uses lances, it's so much more logical, finally).

[Burklight]

I feel like this is a false dichotomy. The real choice should be Bow Knight or War Master. The only thing Sword Master does better than War Master is fewer requirements. It has less move, less crit, a worse class skill, and only one weapon type. Gauntlets are also quite good at getting around any speed issues caused by his relic mid game, and QR fixes the same problem for Axes late game.

[Jakkun]

47 minutes ago, timon said:

I'm not sure where that came from tbh, swords are always so excessively pushed in FE that it's refreshing that they're almost trash for once. Obviously it'd be nice to have something better for them than MS or Assassin, but still, I'm so happy that they didn't put swords everywhere (why would Bow Knight have a sword? Light cavalry uses lances, it's so much more logical, finally).

I was hyperbolic in saying "always shafted", however, how many times have you heard someone say "swordlocked" as a demerit when discussing a character or class in previous FE games? No 1-2 ranged sword in most games, and even cavs that can use swords & lances almost always favor lance for general use. That's what I was getting at.

Also while I understand that cavalry uses lances and it makes more sense, I could argue that having every mounted master class require lances is pretty terrible for balance. When it comes to this game specifically, my gripes with swords are an extension of my problems with master classes as a whole.

 

[dragontamer]

3 hours ago, timon said:

I'm not sure where that came from tbh, swords are always so excessively pushed in FE that it's refreshing that they're almost trash for once. Obviously it'd be nice to have something better for them than MS or Assassin, but still, I'm so happy that they didn't put swords everywhere (why would Bow Knight have a sword? Light cavalry uses lances, it's so much more logical, finally).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Model_1913_Cavalry_Saber

Light cavalry using swords were deployed in WW1 actually. Light Cavalry traditionally used short, easy to use swords. Heavy Cavalry were your traditional armored knights with heavy lances and shields... but the age of guns obsoleted heavy cavalry + armor + lances.

Light Cavalry remained useful as scouts, surprise attacks, pursuit, messengers, etc. etc. It remained an effective strategy to flank riflemen and even gatling gun positions with Light Cavalry (as long as the gatling guns remained unprepared, a surprise attack from Light Cavalry would wipe out the gunners). US Light Cavalry were trained Riflemen of course (it is the age of guns), but were always deployed with a saber, which remained useful in a variety of situations. As such, the "final cavalry" loadout, circa early 1900s, was Swords + Carbines (guns that are slightly smaller than a rifle, to make it easier to use on horseback).

WW1 finally brought an end to the Sword: although the American 1913 Calvary Saber was considered the finest mass-produced sword ever crafted, the age of trench warfare, mustard gas, landmines, and armored vehicles (aka: Tanks) finally killed light calvary as a unit on the battlefield, while the invention of the Radio negated the need for horseback messengers. So while Light Cavalry were deployed in WW1, but to very poor effect. The age of sword-cavalry was finally over.

 

EDIT: It seems like horses were deployed vs Japan in World War 2, but they used pistols, not swords: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/26th_Cavalry_Regiment_(Philippine_Scouts)

-------

Historically, the dark ages and middle-ages were dominated by Spears. Be it the Halberd in Europe, the Naginata in Japan, or the Qiang in China, it turns out that a pointy-bit of metal on the end of a wooden-stick was the best weapon. The Roman Pilum (aka: Javalin) was also deployed with great effect, but Javalins and Throwing Axes were obsoleted by the British Longbowman by the year ~1100 or so.

The Halberd was the ultimate polearm developed in European warfare. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halberd Given the "Swinging" motion of a Halberd, one can argue that its more of an axe than a spear. But really, the Halberd did everything your soldiers needed to do in battle: Swinging force to break shields, Poking reach for most combat, and hooking people off of horses.

EDIT2: The Bayonet effectively turns a rifle into a pike. Bayonet charges were common in WW1, even in the age of the Gatling gun. Common... but ineffective. While bayonet charges were ineffective during WW1, the fact remains that soldiers expected bayonet charges to work. It was all of the inventions of WW1 (Landmines, Mustard Gas, Tanks, Barbed Wire Fences, Gatling Guns) which finally negated the efficacy of your classic "Spear charge" maneuver.

Edited September 4, 2019 by dragontamer

[Shadow Mir]

2 hours ago, Burklight said:

I feel like this is a false dichotomy. The real choice should be Bow Knight or War Master. The only thing Sword Master does better than War Master is fewer requirements. It has less move, less crit, a worse class skill, and only one weapon type. Gauntlets are also quite good at getting around any speed issues caused by his relic mid game, and QR fixes the same problem for Axes late game.

I disagree - gauntlets are the worst weapon type in the game, owing to range lock. It doesn't help that their low might hinders them, nor does it that other weapon types can do their job, but they can't do the things that you can do with other weapons.

[dragontamer]

9 minutes ago, Shadow Mir said:

I disagree - gauntlets are the worst weapon type in the game, owing to range lock. It doesn't help that their low might hinders them, nor does it that other weapon types can do their job, but they can't do the things that you can do with other weapons.

But in practice, D Bows is usually superior than Hand Axe or Javelin. So the solution to range-issues is the same for all units: pull out a Steel Bow+.

 

EDIT:

Hand Axe is 4 MT / 70 Hit / 10 weight.

Javalin is 2 MT/ 80 Hit / 8 Weight.

Iron Bow is 6 MT / 85 Hit / 6 Weight.

Steel Bow+ is 11 Mt / 80 Hit / 10 weight.

 

Steel Bow+ is more damage, even when factoring the +5 damage from Axefaire or Lancefaire. Steel Bow+ only requires D-rank.

Edited September 4, 2019 by dragontamer

[Shadow Mir]

2 hours ago, timon said:

I'm not sure where that came from tbh, swords are always so excessively pushed in FE that it's refreshing that they're almost trash for once. Obviously it'd be nice to have something better for them than MS or Assassin, but still, I'm so happy that they didn't put swords everywhere (why would Bow Knight have a sword? Light cavalry uses lances, it's so much more logical, finally).

I don't see how swords are "almost trash" in this game - I'd say they were worse off in Blazing Blade, Sacred Stones, and a few other games.

[Eltoshen]

Wyvern Lord Felix is the answer. He's the fastest Wyvern in the game by far with great strength growths. Best movement in the game also. Seems like an easy choice.

[ck425]

Assassin for the win. People forget the ignoring terrain advantage. Super useful in many maps (final BE map in particular). He has enough STR that the low growth doesn't matter and the high SKL helps for crits as his base is average.

The other decent option is Mortal Savant. I've currently got Felix in a GD run with High STR and SPD and decent everything else, who can hit hard and high crit with sword, fist, magic or bow. That gives incredible flexibility, as almost every class is weak to one of those and he can hit 1-3 range. Combine that with his shield, healing focus and vantage and he's un-killable.

Worth noting Bow Knight ignores that advantage his shield gives him.