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irma_gedden

A bit shocked by the Lewyn arc in FE4

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Just finished the ended (thanks to YouTube, RIP 10 chapter save).  I was pretty floored that he wasn't the original Lewyn.  I guess I just figured of course Lewyn would survive the battle of Belhalla, he had insane speed and evasion.  I'm a bit heartbroken now.  No wonder he abandoned his family.

I admit to laughing for a good while after he meets Ced and says "How's things?".  It was a bit cold and oddly distant, but I figured Lewyn had gone back to his 'idiot bard" ways.  I had no idea it was because he was Forseti or some Forseti puppet?  I guess he could be a bit of both.

Now I have to mourn my save and the *real* Lewyn.  Going to need some strong drink for this

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3 minutes ago, Fates-Blade said:

Lewyn died by Manfroy and was resurrected by Forseti.

 

Thanks for the clip--I didn't realize it had little vignettes.  The Bellhalla thing feels even more painful when you think of it as battles like that (don't get me started on Quan.  I'm still in denial).

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4 hours ago, irma_gedden said:

Thanks for the clip--I didn't realize it had little vignettes.  The Bellhalla thing feels even more painful when you think of it as battles like that (don't get me started on Quan.  I'm still in denial).

These clips only become available after you clear the game, some times multiple times. Now that I think of it, they're almost like predessors to the memory prisms in Shadows of Valentia. Though they're a lot shorter. I hope if we do get a Genealogy remake they get included in a more natural, less obscure way. Though I also hope there's a tonne more "Meanwhile in another time and another place" content avilable in any remake. Because there's a tonne of stuff we just don't get to see play out in Genealogy.

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I would have preferred if Oifey stayed as the tactician. Seeing the difference between his younger self and older self as well as his interactions with Seliph would be interesting. It'd help Seliph as a character too because Oifey is a lot more personal to him than Lewyn. 

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6 minutes ago, Icelerate said:

I would have preferred if Oifey stayed as the tactician. Seeing the difference between his younger self and older self as well as his interactions with Seliph would be interesting. It'd help Seliph as a character too because Oifey is a lot more personal to him than Lewyn. 

Why not have both? It does feel a bit like the stale old Marth and Mallades, Roy and Merlinus, are there only two people in this entire game!? trope sometimes when it's just Seliph and Lewyn after conquering every castle. I guess it's because Oifey can die so they can't really have him critically influence the plot, but still, throw him in for aesthetic the way all the playable characters in Three Houses provide some sort of presence.

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4 minutes ago, Jotari said:

Why not have both? It does feel a bit like the stale old Marth and Mallades, Roy and Merlinus, are there only two people in this entire game!? trope sometimes when it's just Seliph and Lewyn after conquering every castle. I guess it's because Oifey can die so they can't really have him critically influence the plot, but still, throw him in for aesthetic the way all the playable characters in Three Houses provide some sort of presence.

I do agree. It was a problem with the old games because they didn't have characters retreat but there's nothing stopping them from modifying the scenes if he dies. 

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You mean like the beginning of Ch9, where Oifey (and Finn) could have lines if they were still alive?

I'd say, it would've been interesting. Though then I feel like it would be like Leif with Dorias and August one game earlier. Then again, not a bad thing. If the game is ever remade, yeah, they should have Oifey be the Dorias to Lewyn's August.

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On 9/7/2019 at 8:19 PM, irma_gedden said:

I admit to laughing for a good while after he meets Ced and says "How's things?".

Was it as funny/"off" as Alvis casually saying the same thing to Ishtar as the liberation army closes in on his location, one of his relatives (Hilda) having almost died at their hand, and him having decided to betray his son and the Lopt Sect by freeing the children?

11 hours ago, Icelerate said:

It was a problem with the old games because they didn't have characters retreat

I'd concur if it wasn't for the fact that they didn't have every enemy in Genealogy die/disappear.  Namely those such as Ishtar or Julius whom aren't supposed to die until a certain point.  Not to mention Deirdre, who is only ever "captured" by the enemy until Sigurd seizes the final castle of the chapter, or any of the three Leonster characters (Quan, Ethlyn, and Finn) having their deaths only resulting in them being "injured" and retreating to Leonster together (though Finn can actually die for real in Gen 2).

Would've been all too easy for them to make it so that Oifaye simply didn't die when he hit 0 health - that he'd just say "damn, I can't fight like this anymore, I must retreat" and then act as mission control for the rest of the game.

Probably the reason they didn't go for that and did the whole Lewyn possession deal is because they wanted there to be some connection to the dragons that gifted the humans of Jugdral with the power of their blood beyond just bloodlines... they wanted for there to be some acknowledgement that, yes, the dragons are still around and still give a damn about Jugdral's people.

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4 hours ago, Ertrick36 said:

Was it as funny/"off" as Alvis casually saying the same thing to Ishtar as the liberation army closes in on his location, one of his relatives (Hilda) having almost died at their hand, and him having decided to betray his son and the Lopt Sect by freeing the children?

I'd concur if it wasn't for the fact that they didn't have every enemy in Genealogy die/disappear.  Namely those such as Ishtar or Julius whom aren't supposed to die until a certain point.  Not to mention Deirdre, who is only ever "captured" by the enemy until Sigurd seizes the final castle of the chapter, or any of the three Leonster characters (Quan, Ethlyn, and Finn) having their deaths only resulting in them being "injured" and retreating to Leonster together (though Finn can actually die for real in Gen 2).

Would've been all too easy for them to make it so that Oifaye simply didn't die when he hit 0 health - that he'd just say "damn, I can't fight like this anymore, I must retreat" and then act as mission control for the rest of the game.

Probably the reason they didn't go for that and did the whole Lewyn possession deal is because they wanted there to be some connection to the dragons that gifted the humans of Jugdral with the power of their blood beyond just bloodlines... they wanted for there to be some acknowledgement that, yes, the dragons are still around and still give a damn about Jugdral's people.

It's definitely not an issue in Part 1. People keep getting added to the plot, like Claude and Lachesis that keep things moving. Chapter 2 and 3 also allow for very direct conversation between Sigurd and Eldigan. But in the Second Generation all the playable characters you basically pick up on the way with only minor influence on how the war actually plays out. The exceptions being maybe Leif and Althena. Even set characters like Shannan and Aless who are pretty important in universe, don't actually influence the make up of the story. They have their own little introduction sections, but it's not actually changing Seliph's journey in any way. Everyone in Gen 2 is basically Jamke. Nice story for themself, but ultimately utterly irrelevant to the grand scheme.

If we were to promote someone to "can retreat and stick around for cutscenes" status, more so than Oifey I'd like it to be Shannan. He's just as significant a figure in the rebellion as Seliph and Leif and is actually the oldest and most experienced fighter and alongside our man Oifey basically raised half the cast.

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16 hours ago, Ertrick36 said:

Was it as funny/"off" as Alvis casually saying the same thing to Ishtar as the liberation army closes in on his location, one of his relatives (Hilda) having almost died at their hand, and him having decided to betray his son and the Lopt Sect by freeing the children?

A bit of both--it was incredibly blunt but it felt in character.  It's part of why I prefer to believe that Lewyn is sort of like a ghost or an angel type thing rather than Forseti.  It's much more appealing to me to imagine that it *is* Lewyn but he's on a divine mission with borrowed time.  It would explain why he carefully avoided his family.  How painful would it be for them to realize he wasn't *really* alive?  I know I preferred being upset at him for being a deadbeat over believing he was literally dead!

Edited by irma_gedden

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Well, it's kinda that. It's not even the real Forseti that's "possessing" him, just a shade/imprint of his that resides in the tome.

When you think about it, Lewyn might really be dead. Anything "Forseti" knows in relation to Lewyn could be because the body wasn't dead long enough for all the stored memories in the brain to be lost. So the Forseti shade uses those to be able to impersonate him.

Sounds too depressing if it's true, perhaps, I know.

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51 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said:

Well, it's kinda that. It's not even the real Forseti that's "possessing" him, just a shade/imprint of his that resides in the tome.

When you think about it, Lewyn might really be dead. Anything "Forseti" knows in relation to Lewyn could be because the body wasn't dead long enough for all the stored memories in the brain to be lost. So the Forseti shade uses those to be able to impersonate him.

Sounds too depressing if it's true, perhaps, I know.

Yikes, yeah that's depressing but it is one possible explanation. The thing that makes me think it's really Lewyn is the moment when he gets upset at Fee and says that what went on between him and her mother is none of her business.  He probably gets pretty angry when pushed on it because he was in a self-imposed exile.  Ir's all quite sad!!  He knows his kids would be happier just staying mad at him rather than knowing he's a ghost.  My headcanon is that he's just got to be off on other divine missions.  

Side note, how in the ********  does Manfroy land that hit with a 23% chance?!  Such bad RNG at the worst time!  Poor Lewyn. 😭

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20 hours ago, irma_gedden said:

Yikes, yeah that's depressing but it is one possible explanation. The thing that makes me think it's really Lewyn is the moment when he gets upset at Fee and says that what went on between him and her mother is none of her business.  He probably gets pretty angry when pushed on it because he was in a self-imposed exile.  Ir's all quite sad!!  He knows his kids would be happier just staying mad at him rather than knowing he's a ghost.  My headcanon is that he's just got to be off on other divine missions.  

Side note, how in the ********  does Manfroy land that hit with a 23% chance?!  Such bad RNG at the worst time!  Poor Lewyn. 

There's probably some imprint of Lewyn's personality left, but not too terribly much (he does cry when hearing about what happened to Tailtiu).

And that's 1RN, baby!

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Just to point out; but Forseti was described to be quite passionate when it came to humanity. I'd think regardless if it's Lewyn or Forseti... hearing about Tailtiu's fate will have triggered an emotional response.

Well, not taking the gameplay aspects into account... likely Lewyn was tired to really try to dodge? I'd think having to escape, running most likely, from a literal meteor shower... yeah.

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20 hours ago, Acacia Sgt said:

Just to point out; but Forseti was described to be quite passionate when it came to humanity. I'd think regardless if it's Lewyn or Forseti... hearing about Tailtiu's fate will have triggered an emotional response.

Well, not taking the gameplay aspects into account... likely Lewyn was tired to really try to dodge? I'd think having to escape, running most likely, from a literal meteor shower... yeah.

Yeah, that's fair.  He was probably completely spent.  When I first got him, I was in a bad situation and had to make him singlehandedly defend my keep.  He dodges everything and saved the day.  RIP, my friend.  That said, I will just headcanon that he's living some sort Quantum Leap life at the behest of Forseti (clearly I'm still in the denial stage).

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On 9/11/2019 at 12:49 AM, Acacia Sgt said:

Just to point out; but Forseti was described to be quite passionate when it came to humanity. I'd think regardless if it's Lewyn or Forseti... hearing about Tailtiu's fate will have triggered an emotional response.

Well, not taking the gameplay aspects into account... likely Lewyn was tired to really try to dodge? I'd think having to escape, running most likely, from a literal meteor shower... yeah.

Maybe Forseti had a crush on Tailtiu? 

Now seriously, I still wonder how much of the time skip personality was Lewyn or if his soul was completely rewritten by Forseti. Maybe it was like Byleth's case in which both personalities existed in the same body and Lewyn listened to Forseti voice in his head 

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6 hours ago, Mylady said:

Maybe Forseti had a crush on Tailtiu? 

Now seriously, I still wonder how much of the time skip personality was Lewyn or if his soul was completely rewritten by Forseti. Maybe it was like Byleth's case in which both personalities existed in the same body and Lewyn listened to Forseti voice in his head 

I haven't played Three Houses yet, but hearing his voice in his head seems very plausible to me.  This is a blast from the past, but for some reason I keep imagining Lewyn as that German Shepherd in "All Dogs Go to Heaven" haha

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