Canon Byleth (or, which gender do you prefer?)

[Dragoncat]

I just like how they seem like different characters this time, instead of straight gender bend, like I made this:

The goddess vessel thing is awkward with Male for sure and I don't think that's been done with a deity vessel before in anything or it's rare, with female deity/male vessel or vice versa, but you could argue that Rhea just needed a mortal newborn for the procedure and a sex change operation would be overkill. Jeralt was already suspicious, he ain't stupid, he knows his son can't morph into a daughter overnight. And he's going to notice on the next diaper change. His wife would too for the short time she was alive.

But yeah, Male is a grumpy butt and I think that's a good character for him, he's like the teacher who is just so done with this shit. Female is more generic I guess? Can see her being cheery and more likely to be "the cool teacher" in some cases.

The problem with Female is her outfit though. Can you seriously see Jeralt allowing his daughter to wear that? Or her going out and buying it in the first place?

No idea who's canon, long story short.

Edited September 8, 2019 by Dragoncat

[Timlugia]

I think people arguing for "Goddess Vessel" missed one thing here: Birth of Byleth was an accident, thus his/her gender was not in the plan.

Spoiler

 

From Rhea's confession in Silver Snow she wanted to create her mother from Crest of Flame, but each time met with failure.

It's only by chance(or fated according to Rhea) that Jeralt fell in love with the 12th attempt that Byleth was born.

 

 

Spoiler

If Rhea get to choose, she certainly wanted a carbon copy of Sothis, only that it didn't end up that way.

 

Edited September 9, 2019 by Timlugia

[Eltoshen]

2 hours ago, timon said:

Then why is no one talking about Manuela, she is a LOT more inappropriate than a bellybutton window and some weirdly designed stockings.

Also I'm more talking about their "head+face", male has god awful hair (actually the worst haircut in the game Lorenz aside) and a terrible expression, while she's overwhelmingly cute.

Lorenz post time skip has the most glorious hair.

[eclipse]

18 hours ago, nocturnal YL said:

Can you even marry Alois? He's already married, and he shows no sign of ever wanting to change that fact.

I have no intention of finding out.

16 hours ago, Jotari said:

I am a teacher (and I've professionally taught people close to my own age) so I found the whole marrying students thing especially uncomfortable too. Especially when you get, I believe, the forced dialogue option in the Black Eagle route where the characters say "We're going to treat you just like one of us," and you have to say "yeah, totally," when really I was like "No. Not at all. There are boundaries here. Manuela and Hanneman are the people I should be hanging out with."

But I have to say the five year time skip does make it significantly more palatable. Not only does the focus (and costume design) move away from the school aspect, but you can start getting lectures from the student characters too, making it feel much more like they're equals assisting each other in fighting a war rather than going through an education system.

Gets even weirder when the janitor is younger than the students.  Like, WTF is up with that school system?

47 minutes ago, Dragoncat said:

I just like how they seem like different characters this time, instead of straight gender bend, like I made this:

 

Male Byleth looks like he'd let the students off if they share.  Female Byleth looks like she mentally checked out of the staff meeting half an hour ago.

---

THIS IS NOT THE TOPIC TO WHINE ABOUT FEMALE FASHION.  Yes, even if certain nameless female faculty members (RHEA) don't follow a standard dress code.  It's a fantasy school where they allow students into the kitchen, hire a professor with no credentials, and allow the faculty to drink.  Besides, if y'all were actually concerned about fashion instead of complaining about some less-than-clothed women, you'd be holding a collective riot over Catherine's breastplate.

[CyberNinja]

8 minutes ago, eclipse said:

THIS IS NOT THE TOPIC TO WHINE ABOUT FEMALE FASHION.  Yes, even if certain nameless female faculty members (RHEA) don't follow a standard dress code.  It's a fantasy school where they allow students into the kitchen, hire a professor with no credentials, and allow the faculty to drink.  Besides, if y'all were actually concerned about fashion instead of complaining about some less-than-clothed women, you'd be holding a collective riot over Catherine's breastplate.

This is a good point, why do women get armor showing off their assets and my male great knights don't get a great THROBBING codpiece showing off their virility? At least mine's canon to IRL.

@Crysta

Quote

I'm not sure why the teacher who has presumably been there for years, flaunts her cleavage and openly hits on you in spite of a clear age difference is given a pass but the young adult who has abruptly been given a teaching gig is vilified for her choice in tights... because she has "reasons" lmao

Probably because she's portrayed as in the wrong for it? Its certainly not treated as normal or good, while characters awkwardly ignore Female Byleth's attire and treat her the same as the much more modestly dressed Byleth.

[eclipse]

Just now, CyberNinja said:

This is a good point, why do women get armor showing off their assets and my male great knights don't get a great THROBBING codpiece showing off their virility? At least mine's canon to IRL.

The fact that you're arguing about Catherine's breastplate using that stance tells me that you're out of your depth.

[Crysta]

1 minute ago, CyberNinja said:

 

@Crysta

Probably because she's portrayed as in the wrong for it? Its certainly not treated as normal or good, while characters awkwardly ignore Female Byleth's attire and treat her the same as the much more modestly dressed Byleth.

When?

[CyberNinja]

Just now, eclipse said:

The fact that you're arguing about Catherine's breastplate using that stance tells me that you're out of your depth.

The fact you took a joke comment as serious tells me you skimmed what I said and decided to get offended anyway. It's stupid but there's plenty of historical precedent for aesthetics being done in favor of practicality.

Just now, Crysta said:

When?

She's portrayed as a desperate drunk that Byleth has to constantly clean up after or do her work when she's in her depressive moods, Hanneman is a constant critic. The general tone and context doesn't paint a positive picture of her.

[Sid Starkiller]

1 minute ago, CyberNinja said:

She's portrayed as a desperate drunk that Byleth has to constantly clean up after or do her work when she's in her depressive moods, Hanneman is a constant critic. The general tone and context doesn't paint a positive picture of her.

Yes, but it never relates to her clothing. There's a reason I said she has "reasons" and not "good reasons."

[Crysta]

Just now, CyberNinja said:

She's portrayed as a desperate drunk that Byleth has to constantly clean up after or do her work when she's in her depressive moods, Hanneman is a constant critic. The general tone and context doesn't paint a positive picture of her.

Yeah, that's being drunk and depressed. That doesn't really acknowledge or confront the, uh, rest of it. Her overtures are played for giggles, particularly in the opening animated scene lol.

People are weird.

[eclipse]

4 minutes ago, CyberNinja said:

The fact you took a joke comment as serious tells me you skimmed what I said and decided to get offended anyway. It's stupid but there's plenty of historical precedent for aesthetics being done in favor of practicality.

I'm also a mod, so part of it is figuring out where you're getting your logic regarding female fashion from.  I don't like what i see.  I hope you figure out the error of your ways sooner than later, because that part about Catherine's breastplate wasn't a joke.

[CyberNinja]

1 minute ago, Sid Starkiller said:

Yes, but it never relates to her clothing. There's a reason I said she has "reasons" and not "good reasons."

What I'm trying to get at is that Manuela's makes sense in context, Byleth's does not. Manuela isn't portrayed as a positive role model, Byleth is. Male Byleth and Female Byleth are treated as equal authority figures, their designs were not given the same respect. Therefore I dislike F!Byleth, I dislike Manuela, but I don't find that her outfit is at odds with her character. am I I'm making myself clear, or do I need to elaborate further?

1 minute ago, eclipse said:

I'm also a mod, so part of it is figuring out where you're getting your logic regarding female fashion from.  I don't like what i see.  I hope you figure out the error of your ways sooner than later, because that part about Catherine's breastplate wasn't a joke.

and if you read a single one of my statements in this thread, you'd understand I don't like the obvious sexualization of F!Byleth, why would I like it when its done to Catherine? I LITERALLY LITERALLY pointed out the double standard of sexualization of women but not men, and your getting on my ass about it? Seriously, get off your high horse you self-righteous cretin and actually read what I'm saying. Well you've pissed me off, so I guess you get to use the mod powers you're threatening, so get on with it.

[Dragoncat]

This thread is going to get locked. Sad.

[Sid Starkiller]

3 minutes ago, CyberNinja said:

What I'm trying to get at is that Manuela's makes sense in context, Byleth's does not. Manuela isn't portrayed as a positive role model, Byleth is. Male Byleth and Female Byleth are treated as equal authority figures, their designs were not given the same respect. Therefore I dislike F!Byleth, I dislike Manuela, but I don't find that her outfit is at odds with her character. am I I'm making myself clear, or do I need to elaborate further?

...I agree with you on that point. Why don't you take a breather, get a snack, and come back later?

 

[Crysta]

Only beef I have is going "she's a teacher that's inappropriate" to one character and not the other because you take one more seriously lol

On the whole, I consider bellybuttons rather tame compared to standard Fire Emblem fare... in the same game.

[Jotari]

"I don't like A."

"Oh yeah, then what about B?"

Nothing. Nothing about B. B is a different case from A. Manuela and Catherine and every other character in the game aren't twins of Byleth. Let's calm things down before the thread gets shit down.

[Ottservia]

Okay couple things here. I actually like Byleth's bizarre fashion choices just because of how stupid it looks cause like Byleth grew up as a mercenary with no female role model and it's not like Jeralt is forefront leader in fashion so I just kinda like to headcanon that Byleth just kinda saw what other women wore from her traveling as a mercenary and just kinda threw on whatever she thought looked nice and it just wound up being whatever the hell she's wearing currently. She has like terrible fashion sense and everyone knows it but no one says anything simply because of her constant stoicism.

Secondly, Fanservice will be fanservice who cares about any of that nonsense. If an artist wants to be horny let them be horny is what I say cause it's not like it's hurting anyone. Let people create whatever the hell they wanna create.

Edited September 9, 2019 by Ottservia

[Dragoncat]

1 hour ago, Timlugia said:

I think people arguing for "Goddess Vessel" missed one thing here: Birth of Byleth was an accident, thus his/her gender was not in the plan.

From Rhea's confession in Silver Snow she wanted to create her mother from Crest of Flame, but each time met with failure.

It's only by chance(or fated according to Rhea) that Jeralt fell in love with the 12th attempt that Byleth was born.

 

If Rhea get to choose, she certainly wanted a carbon copy of Sothis, only that it didn't end up that way.

...I didn't do church route yet but holy shit Rhea CREATED Byleth's mom? 

I see. Lol damn you Jeralt, passing down a Y chromosome...

@Ottservia That is actually...a good point?

Edited September 9, 2019 by Dragoncat

[Integrity]

10 minutes ago, Dragoncat said:

This thread is going to get locked. Sad.

throwing this out there, posts like this are useless and spammy, don't make 'em kids

[Jakkun]

I personally think it is okay to air grievances about either gender's design here, considering that the topic is "which gender do you prefer?"... Character appearance is a big part of preference, especially since we're talking about 2 versions of the exact same character.

Is one a hypocrite for liking Catherine's design or not really caring about Manuela's cleavage, but taking issue with Byleth's wierd stockings? Maybe..? I personally don't think so, but all I know is that if I play as F!Byleth, she's the character I'm gonna see the most, so I'd rather not play as a design I dislike when given a preferable alternative.

[Ottservia]

6 minutes ago, Dragoncat said:

@Ottservia That is actually...a good point?

Honestly it's just funny to imagine Byleth as this weird socially awkward sociopath that no one questions simply because of how bizarre they are. I find it very amusing to think of interactions like that.

Byleth: *puts on weird ass stockings that completely clash with everything else* "See, I can also do the fashion!"

Everyone else: "Yeah....you can....that's certainly fashion....(Oh god what the hell is she wearing now?!)"

Edelgard: *trying desperately to hide the fact that she is incredibly turned on*

Thoughts like this amuse me greatly 

 

[Crysta]

Eh, you can criticize the reasons for someone disliking something if they're not consistent.

Though I agree it's silly to ban commenting on fashion when it's one of the principle differences between the two designs... and we're talking about design preferences.

 

Edited September 9, 2019 by Crysta

[Sid Starkiller]

I didn't mean what I said as a defense of Manuela. I don't actually like her. I only meant that there seemed to be some kind of logic behind it on her end.

[Integrity]

5 minutes ago, Ottservia said:

Byleth: *puts on weird ass stockings that completely clash with everything else*

highkey i thought they were tattoos for the longest time and i thought this was the most fire design of the franchise

[Crysta]

tbh the weird choker pendant thing bothers me more than the tights because it looks heavy and uncomfortable

It's like they really felt it was necessary to put jewelry on her for some reason and a simple necklace JUST WASN'T ENOUGH