Maddening mode is out

[ZeManaphy]

I'm doing a New Game + of the Blue Lions run, and just completed Chapter 3. Not too bad, but I had to use Divine Pulse once. Its definitely requires more thinking than Hard Mode. The thieves have very high speed stat forget about doubling them, and the archers have Poison Strike, which are probably the worst. Luckily, Dedue is an amazing physical wall and is fantastic because he took like 0 damage from most units. Even Kostas only did 5 damage. 

[Escape the Fate]

Slightly off topic but not threadworthy. This extra renown from completed play throughs still shows up even if were in the middle of a NG+ run before the update. Checked my statues and suddenly realized I had 10000+ renown for “no reason” and just finished em right there. Didn’t bother getting the last stages because I wanted to spend it on other stuff but now it doesn’t matter lol.

Edited September 12, 2019 by Escape the Fate

[XeKr]

It’s not that hard so far (and I’m told it gets easier midgame as enemy AS values go down), but it is a pretty unique mode imo. Other notorious difficulties at least have jeigan characters and/or an overleveled Avatar (Kris/Corrin). FE6 Hard/FE9 Maniac/FE13 Lunatic really aren’t that bad if you just use Marcus/Titania/Frederick. Byleth/Lord have a few points in str, but don’t really have a significant enough stat lead to serve in that role.

The closest comparison I feel is maybe early FE11 H5? Jagen isn’t that strong early, though of course he does have that Silver Lance (and later the game is broken by Wing Spear and Warp.) 

It kinda feels like FE9 Maniac without Titania I did casually for some early chapters forever ago but the maps are considerably smaller there.

 

Edited September 12, 2019 by XeKr

[Shadow Mir]

Since I saw chapter 8 mentioned, are sub objectives where you must protect certain green units more annoying?

[Jayvee94]

The new voice sounds too subtle to notice. Am i the only one?

[LegendOfLoog]

3 hours ago, Shadow Mir said:

Since I saw chapter 8 mentioned, are sub objectives where you must protect certain green units more annoying?

Specifically in Chapter 8, Solon moves when any enemy enters his range, so saving all of the villagers before your green units make it to him seems difficult to pull off. I'm sure it can be done, but you'd probably need to let the green units duke it out in the center while your cavalry go left and fliers go right. I didn't bother, but it's probably good to try since gold is more scarce in this mode due to the heightened difficulty of Paralogues. 

[Garlyle]

Ok, I' still doing the early game, and now I got a Lv4 Aux battle, where my team is still on an average of 3 - and it felt like an impossible situation.

For reference, it's the same as Hanneman x Manuela paralogue map. On the right there's 3 thief with Pass in the forest, and they can reach all the tile on the hill. Defending is impossible, even if you wall with your units in front of the forest, they can just go past you with Pass. 

[Shadow Mir]

1 hour ago, LegendOfLoog said:

Specifically in Chapter 8, Solon moves when any enemy enters his range, so saving all of the villagers before your green units make it to him seems difficult to pull off. I'm sure it can be done, but you'd probably need to let the green units duke it out in the center while your cavalry go left and fliers go right. I didn't bother, but it's probably good to try since gold is more scarce in this mode due to the heightened difficulty of Paralogues. 

The implication here is that green units get buffed too... Is that true?

[Modirufa6317]

2 hours ago, Shadow Mir said:

The implication here is that green units get buffed too... Is that true?

That's definitely the case.

I pretty much expected it, though : on chapter 8 hard, you barely have time to save all villagers without the stride/warp cheese strat. It wouldn't be fair if they had the same stats in maddening.

[De Geso]

People struggle with Chapter 8? I recall beating it pretty handily without either Stride or Warp, just using a couple Pegasi...

[Life]

13 minutes ago, De Geso said:

People struggle with Chapter 8? I recall beating it pretty handily without either Stride or Warp, just using a couple Pegasi...

It's not about struggling with the chapter; it's about grabbing both chests and saving all of the civilians in time. If I recall correctly, you only have 4 turns to save the bottom lefthand citizen without considering that the northern ones die in 3 turns.

If you managed to do it without Stride, well done.

[Okigen]

Fantastic new. I can restart BL now 😁

[Stroud]

I am at chapter 4 at the Moment and I think I have an idea for BE to still be able to beat DK at that chapter.. The unit which helps a lot is surprisingly Bernadetta. She already does around 20+ damage against him without her personal activated. If I would have focused on lance for Vengeance I might get her to almost 1 hit him. There is also a Bow enemy with Poison strike on the map who can help in Getting Bernadetta's HP to one. Its a bit of a setup. 

Sadly my Bernadetta is at C with lance and not C+... but overall I can say in early game she does quite well on New Game Maddening. Her personal skill allows her to deal some decent damage. If she remains good that depends on how the game grants me luck with her.
With the Item which gives +7 HP. Mine would have 40 HP.. Which would grant her 44 damage just from vengeance..
One little problem is the Tile DK stands on.. 

At the least it is possible in Chapter 6 to beat him with Bernadetta for me.

Edited September 12, 2019 by Stroud

[De Geso]

2 hours ago, Life said:

It's not about struggling with the chapter; it's about grabbing both chests and saving all of the civilians in time. If I recall correctly, you only have 4 turns to save the bottom lefthand citizen without considering that the northern ones die in 3 turns.

If you managed to do it without Stride, well done.

I was referring to the side objectives, not just clearing the chapter.

The citizen that gave me the most grief was the one on the bottom right, because he was inclined to move toward Solon and nearly got himself killed on the armor and mage that are there with him. Thankfully, killing the red civilian who was attacking him made him disappear before they could take him.

Anyway, yes, I did that without stride. Although I don't know if it's possible without one of Warp, Stride, or a Flier to save the one you mentioned in your post.

[Technoweirdo]

1 hour ago, Stroud said:

I am at chapter 4 at the Moment and I think I have an idea for BE to still be able to beat DK at that chapter.. The unit which helps a lot is surprisingly Bernadetta. She already does around 20+ damage against him without her personal activated. If I would have focused on lance for Vengeance I might get her to almost 1 hit him. There is also a Bow enemy with Poison strike on the map who can help in Getting Bernadetta's HP to one. Its a bit of a setup. 

Sadly my Bernadetta is at C with lance and not C+... but overall I can say in early game she does quite well on New Game Maddening. Her personal skill allows her to deal some decent damage. If she remains good that depends on how the game grants me luck with her.
With the Item which gives +7 HP. Mine would have 40 HP.. Which would grant her 44 damage just from vengeance..
One little problem is the Tile DK stands on.. 

At the least it is possible in Chapter 6 to beat him with Bernadetta for me.

Does the Prayer battalion have a 100% proc chance? If so, the setup may be easier by...just having the Death Knight run at her Turn 1.

[De Geso]

1 minute ago, Technoweirdo said:

Does the Prayer battalion have a 100% proc chance? If so, the setup may be easier by...just having the Death Knight run at her Turn 1.

I think it does. Impregnable wall would also work to get him off his avoid tile, yeah? If you can get either of those on NG before Chapter 4, anyway.

Edited September 12, 2019 by De Geso

[Shadow Mir]

3 hours ago, Modirufa6317 said:

That's definitely the case.

I pretty much expected it, though : on chapter 8 hard, you barely have time to save all villagers without the stride/warp cheese strat. It wouldn't be fair if they had the same stats in maddening.

I had a sneaking suspicion that was the case. In any instance, the one at the bottom right tends to prove most troublesome, since he tends to waltz in range of Solon's goons, assuming I don't aggro them first.

[Stroud]

14 minutes ago, Technoweirdo said:

Does the Prayer battalion have a 100% proc chance? If so, the setup may be easier by...just having the Death Knight run at her Turn 1.

The Prayer Battalion would be perfect for her. Sadly we don't get either of those 2 Battalions for Chapter 4. At least I do not have them yet..

Something to lure him him would be nice... and he still might need some chip damage. But I think Bernadetta can do around 40 damage against him. Only that it would be based on luck without luring him. As she hits with around 40-50%...

Hopefully I get one of those until chapter 6. But I think I can manage it there.

The good thing is that there is a Bow user with Poison Strike on the start of the map who can get her to 1 HP. In worst case she needs to equip one of the shields to survive. But if she gets Sacred Floran Robe she should easily survive.
 

Edited September 12, 2019 by Stroud

[Tombstone88]

4 hours ago, Stroud said:

I am at chapter 4 at the Moment and I think I have an idea for BE to still be able to beat DK at that chapter.. The unit which helps a lot is surprisingly Bernadetta. She already does around 20+ damage against him without her personal activated. If I would have focused on lance for Vengeance I might get her to almost 1 hit him. There is also a Bow enemy with Poison strike on the map who can help in Getting Bernadetta's HP to one. Its a bit of a setup. 

Sadly my Bernadetta is at C with lance and not C+... but overall I can say in early game she does quite well on New Game Maddening. Her personal skill allows her to deal some decent damage. If she remains good that depends on how the game grants me luck with her.
With the Item which gives +7 HP. Mine would have 40 HP.. Which would grant her 44 damage just from vengeance..
One little problem is the Tile DK stands on.. 

At the least it is possible in Chapter 6 to beat him with Bernadetta for me.

As someone who is currently doing BE on Maddening (just beat Chapter 3), I have 2 questions:

1.) How is your Bernie doing so much damage?  Mine was averaging 5-8 damage on Chapter 3; even with her personal active, that would only be 10-13 damage.  Yet you're hitting 20+ damage on DK without her personal?  How? (what's his Defense, anyway?)

2.) If I'm reading your post correctly, your Bernie has 33 HP?  What level is she?  I'm assuming you got HP +5 from Noble mastery, bringing her to 30 HP.  However, her HP growth is a measly 35%, so getting 3 HP level-ups in a row seems unlikely.  Or maybe I'm just unlucky?

 

Legitimately curious, btw; Maddening for BE is enough of a struggle, so any info can be useful.

[Stroud]

1 hour ago, Tombstone88 said:

As someone who is currently doing BE on Maddening (just beat Chapter 3), I have 2 questions:

1.) How is your Bernie doing so much damage?  Mine was averaging 5-8 damage on Chapter 3; even with her personal active, that would only be 10-13 damage.  Yet you're hitting 20+ damage on DK without her personal?  How? (what's his Defense, anyway?)

2.) If I'm reading your post correctly, your Bernie has 33 HP?  What level is she?  I'm assuming you got HP +5 from Noble mastery, bringing her to 30 HP.  However, her HP growth is a measly 35%, so getting 3 HP level-ups in a row seems unlikely.  Or maybe I'm just unlucky? 

 

Legitimately curious, btw; Maddening for BE is enough of a struggle, so any info can be useful.

Maybe I have been really lucky with Berny. At lv 7 She had 12 Str and 28 HP, of course I used HP + 5 on her. Also I use Steel lance on her, I just kind of don't care about AS on some enemies as she gets hit twice anyway, unless I know the AS is on threshold.

Ok, should have said that the Situation she does over 20 Damage on him was with Knightkneeler, there she does 26 with Tempest Lanceit was around 15. But I thought about what she could reach with Vengeance and the HP boosting item we get through the DLC. And its also my hope to use her well if I am not lucky anymore with her Str growth, which also is not too big. 

So with Tempest Strike she hits 12 + 9 + 5 + 8  + 3 = 37 Mt.(Forgot Battalion) The Bow I just use more for Chip Damage, I am totally fine with her doing around 10 Damage. The Lance I use if she is not unsafe after attacking. 

Should have saved an image with his defense.. It should be around 20. 

Most of the time I started of with her doing chip damage through her personal skill. Also have given Bows to all characters..

Overall I changed some approaches. I rely much on Combat Arts in general, even with Caspar I often did Fading blow at the beginning until he slowly starts to get enough attack..Dorothea was the most headache at the start for me, because she takes a while to learn more offensive spells..

But overall I guess I am lucky with Berni for now. At the moment she is lv 11 has 13 Str and 34 HP. I might give her the HP boost item after she learns Vengeance. 

Overall I think its unlikely to beat Ch.4 DK with her though, thanks to some limitations on New Game at the start. But in Chapter 6 it might be possible, but that is something I want to test soon.

Edited September 12, 2019 by Stroud

[Tombstone88]

 

 

 

 

2 hours ago, Stroud said:

-snip-

Well, Bernie has a 35% Strength growth (40% once you hit Fighter), so her average Strength at level 7 is a little over 10 points.  At 12 Strength, you've gotten a little lucky maybe, but nothing crazy.  I think it's more likely that I've been unlucky with her than anything.

Ah, that makes sense.  Tempest Lance is the real MVP of Maddening mode. 😀

Yeah, having a bow on everyone is probably one of the single biggest necessities of Maddening mode.  That and keeping spare lances for Tempest Lance.

I've had the opposite issue: Dorothea has been fairly easy for me to level, but my Caspar and Bernie have been struggling hard.  Linhardt has also been surprisingly useful offensively.

[Shadow Mir]

So.... Which house has it the easiest, and which one has it the hardest?

[Tombstone88]

4 minutes ago, Shadow Mir said:

So.... Which house has it the easiest, and which one has it the hardest?

Can't say definitively, but my impression is that Black Eagles is the hardest for early game and Blue Lions is the easiest for early game.  Black Eagles don't have a proper tank, so they struggle a lot with staying alive.  Caspar and Ferdinand really struggle initially due to their bases, and I've had issues with Bernie.  Hubert and Dorothea are both good, but Dorothea often runs out of spell casts early on and Hubert has accuracy issues.

Blue Lions, meanwhile, have Felix (extra 5 Might with his personal), Dedue (amazing early game tank), Annette (magic + rally), Dimitri (better defense than Edelgard), and Ingrid (about on par with Petra).

[Wuzzy]

12 minutes ago, Shadow Mir said:

So.... Which house has it the easiest, and which one has it the hardest?

Blue Lions is the easiest I feel (Annette's free Rally skills, Dedue being able to tank physical units early on well, and Felix makes the early game manageable), also has access to a lot of paralogues for more battalions/items (not sure if paralogues follow story chapter or aux battle exp), and also better battalions (Kingdom Cavalry, Royal Guard, Blue Lion Dancers, etc.). Crimson Flower/Edelgard route I see will the hardest just because Edelgard route's level curve will be a lot steeper since there's less chapters and you have access to less paralogues overall. Black Eagles also have to rely on Edelgard/Byleth as the only tank plus, most BE students need time before they can contribute something like Dorothea, Linhardt, Bernie, Caspar, and Ferdinand (GD/BL units have units that are immediately useful, or don't require as much effort to hold their own).

Edited September 12, 2019 by Lunarly

[ZeManaphy]

2 hours ago, Shadow Mir said:

So.... Which house has it the easiest, and which one has it the hardest?

 

2 hours ago, Lunarly said:

Blue Lions is the easiest I feel (Annette's free Rally skills, Dedue being able to tank physical units early on well, and Felix makes the early game manageable), also has access to a lot of paralogues for more battalions/items (not sure if paralogues follow story chapter or aux battle exp), and also better battalions (Kingdom Cavalry, Royal Guard, Blue Lion Dancers, etc.). Crimson Flower/Edelgard route I see will the hardest just because Edelgard route's level curve will be a lot steeper since there's less chapters and you have access to less paralogues overall. Black Eagles also have to rely on Edelgard/Byleth as the only tank plus, most BE students need time before they can contribute something like Dorothea, Linhardt, Bernie, Caspar, and Ferdinand (GD/BL units have units that are immediately useful, or don't require as much effort to hold their own).

 

2 hours ago, Tombstone88 said:

Can't say definitively, but my impression is that Black Eagles is the hardest for early game and Blue Lions is the easiest for early game.  Black Eagles don't have a proper tank, so they struggle a lot with staying alive.  Caspar and Ferdinand really struggle initially due to their bases, and I've had issues with Bernie.  Hubert and Dorothea are both good, but Dorothea often runs out of spell casts early on and Hubert has accuracy issues.

Blue Lions, meanwhile, have Felix (extra 5 Might with his personal), Dedue (amazing early game tank), Annette (magic + rally), Dimitri (better defense than Edelgard), and Ingrid (about on par with Petra).

I've also heard people struggling with Golden Deer for similar reasons as Black Eagles- Lack of a Physical wall, as well as lot of units like Lysithea, Marianne, and Ignatz really not being able to take any physical hits at all, which is really bad when early game is crawling with Pass Thieves who have 19 Speed. Lot of people complain about struggling with the mock battle with the Golden Deer, but on Blue Lions I beat it in one try without any casualites. I also agree that Blue Lions have better Battalions, with Blue Lion Dancers being amazing for refreshing multiple units. Dedue and Mercedes are amazing for walling physical and magical hits ( The former being the probably the only unit in the game who could survive an onslaught of thieves; MVP for several of my battles. ) I gave Felix a Speed Boosting item, and he's been so far the only unit to consistently be able to double thieves holding Steel Weaponry, conversely, not getting doubled. Annette's rallies have been great for providing that extra "oomph"

I've just beaten Chapter 6 on Blue Lions, and right now, I think its manageable. Between turnwheels and the well balanced party members mentioned above. Of course, I'm playing new game +, so that does make it a lot easier. One thing I like to note is how the game mode makes you think a lot more about stats and Batallions: I used to plop Byleth and watch him mop up with Hard Mode without understanding stats, not the case on Maddening . Speaking of which understanding AS is crucial on Maddening if you want to survive. Here's a video: