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Maddening mode is out


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So I saw that Skirmish EXP has dropped drastically - is it really so low now as to be useless (meaning the only worthwhile thing to spend time on now is Exploring)? Also, did Maddening also nerf drop rates? Specifically the rewards you get for armour breaking Monsters - do they still drop as much as they usually do?

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I just started Felix's paralogue only for Rodrigue to get killed in first enemy phase.

How?! How did they miss this and not buff every green unit on the map for maddening difficulty?! Even if my units had all been flyers at that point I wouldn't have been able to get close enough. 

After that, I had to retry one more time before he didn't die on the first EP only for him to run away to the other side of the map away from me and still get killed >_>

God I'm at least glad I'm doing the BE route because in the BL and GD you need to protect green units in a main story mission. 

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I'm on Chapter 2 (Black Eagle) and I've never turtled this hard before in my life.

My army cannot take on more than 2 guys at a time without me getting scared. This is pretty crazy.

So much for efficiency.

EDIT: Did they playtest this shit at all? This is nuts.

Edited by Life
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13 minutes ago, Hekselka said:

I just started Felix's paralogue only for Rodrigue to get killed in first enemy phase.

How?! How did they miss this and not buff every green unit on the map for maddening difficulty?! Even if my units had all been flyers at that point I wouldn't have been able to get close enough. 

After that, I had to retry one more time before he didn't die on the first EP only for him to run away to the other side of the map away from me and still get killed >_>

God I'm at least glad I'm doing the BE route because in the BL and GD you need to protect green units in a main story mission. 

Might be oversight rather than "We thought this was a good idea", though still shit.
I can tell you that Catherine and her squad scaled up in Ch. 3, at least level-wise. Assuming stats got scaled too. The sidekicks actually outspeed the first enemy swordie, so...

That said, I've not seen the paralogue on Maddening and don't remember enough of it on Hard to say this is possible, but...
Stride + Impregnable Wall on Flayn -> Rescue Rodrigue might work? Good luck with the villagers if they're not scaled up too though.

Edited by Technoweirdo
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9 minutes ago, Technoweirdo said:

Might be oversight rather than "We thought this was a good idea", though still shit.
I can tell you that Catherine and her squad scaled up in Ch. 3, at least level-wise. Assuming stats got scaled too. The sidekicks actually outspeed the first enemy swordie, so...

That said, I've not seen the paralogue on Maddening and don't remember enough of it on Hard to say this is possible, but...
Stride + Impregnable Wall on Flayn -> Rescue Rodrigue might work? Good luck with the villagers if they're not scaled up too though.

Hmmm, that might be a good idea.

I didn't really think of using stride right away because stride isn't as useful on maddening compared to the lower difficulties because enemy units tend to hit super hard but this might be a case of where it might work well.

I'll try to do it later in another week.

Edited by Hekselka
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It is not normal that Chapter 2 should take me 29 Turns to complete.

I like a challenge. This is bordering on insane. It is absurd that I should be scared of fighting 3 enemies at once with an army of 9.

Edited by Life
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5 hours ago, Hekselka said:

Hmmm, that might be a good idea.

I didn't really think of using stride right away because stride isn't as useful on maddening compared to the lower difficulties because enemy units tend to hit super hard but this might be a case of where it might work well.

I'll try to do it later in another week.

I strided and then used gambits so the mercenaries above him couldn't attack him. The issue with Rodrigue is that he has Aura equiped (which is very heavy), so they'd have had to buff him a lot. 

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Chapter 14 in the non Crimson Flower routes is a real doozy. Each turn, there's 2 Falcon Knight and 1 Paladin reinforcements that just move toward you with 8 Move while you're still stuck by the center trying to clean up the mess. Grounder is useless because they all have Swordbreaker+. The fire attack often hurts more than it helps, especially if you have cavalry units, because it gives your units movement penalties when Falcon Knights are still flying at them. Very fun and very cool, IS.  I love maps where I have to move at the pace of a snail to not get my units killed. I guess I'll bring more Bows next time. 

Edit: It's actually every other turn, but since they have 8 Move, it feels a lot worse. When they finally come close enough to deal with, a new set spawns the next turn. Kind of annoying, but I cleared the chapter, so I can only hope I don't have to deal with this kind of reinforcements again. The Retreat AI is weird too. I never noticed it before because of how easy Hard mode was, but it's kind of confusing whether they'll attack you or not. 

Edited by LegendOfLoog
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So, I started Maddening for as well, and having reset a ton of times to get to Chapter 4, which is causing me to get burned out again on FE:3H, honestly just don't find it very fun. On the note of difficulty levels, I feel like most JRPG's have a "true" difficulty level the game was intended to be played at for best experience before difficulty is just jacked up by stats-boosting rather than enemy strategy, and despite it still being too easy, I think "Hard" is that difficulty for FE:3H. I still love this game. Maddening just feels like a lazy difficulty boost. Enemies are still generally moving the same, no change in programming that I've been able to detect.

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Grounder Field Petra is insane. 55 attack speed.

Still managed to beat the map without killing any student other than Bernadetta. RIP Bernie.

Edited by Nobody
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1 hour ago, pekingduck said:

Enemies are still generally moving the same, no change in programming that I've been able to detect.

This does not apply to all bosses though because some do move. 

 

8 hours ago, Life said:

It is not normal that Chapter 2 should take me 29 Turns to complete.

I like a challenge. This is bordering on insane. It is absurd that I should be scared of fighting 3 enemies at once with an army of 9.

It took me a lot of turns too because I got stuck in the entrance area till all enemies came to me who moved towards me automatically. Since all the sword users have pass the group may not be breaking apart. Overall it is not hard to survive, it just needs patience and focus.

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For some reason I feel like I’m missing attacks a lot more in maddening than hard. But it might be psychological since every hit counts in maddening and one miss may spell death for one of your units.

I’m playing maddening without NG+ and early game reminds me of Conquest where you have to spend your money wisely. Unfortunately, I’ve been spending most of it on vulnearies because there’s not enough healing to go around.

Edit: after replaying chapter 2 twice, maddening feels a bit lazy...

The difficulty right now solely relies on giving enemy inflated speed to the point that 8 out of 9 BE gets doubled by any enemy that doesn’t carry an axe (even with training weapons equipped). Yes it’s tough but it’s also brainless. There is little creativity when it comes to how to defeat the enemies because when I soft reset, I’m forced to do the same actions as before because it is literally the only way to not lose a unit. It’s also a chore to get through one map due to intense turtling and lacks things that made Conquest fun.

 

Edited by zuibangde
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2 hours ago, zuibangde said:

The difficulty right now solely relies on giving enemy inflated speed to the point that 8 out of 9 BE gets doubled by any enemy that doesn’t carry an axe (even with training weapons equipped). Yes it’s tough but it’s also brainless. There is little creativity when it comes to how to defeat the enemies because when I soft reset, I’m forced to do the same actions as before because it is literally the only way to not lose a unit. It’s also a chore to get through one map due to intense turtling and lacks things that made Conquest fun.

Yep, in complete agreement with this. Conquest normal was even still a fun challenge because regardless of stats, one had to really think about how to deal with enemy skills and coordination. There was pretty different enemy programming from map to map depending on what made sense.

Again, what a pity that Conquest's map design and enemy programming couldn't have matched up with better overall story-writing. Conquest's gameplay was so great because it felt like the designers really thought hard about what players would instinctively do, and then programmed additional enemy details or specific enemy movements/reinforcements to counter that. Conquest's maps felt play-tested like hell. I was so satisfied on Conquest Hard that I didn't feel the need to suffer through Conquest Lunatic.

Did Conquest have a different lead map designer than Birthright and Revelations? Just feels so different.

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I just realized Ignatz's and Raphael's paralogue has a stationary boss on a healing tile. Slap on a Knowledge Gem , park a dancer next to your character of choice, and wail away. Bonus points if you manage to preserve your battalion after the boss's weapon breaks. That means rotate your characters in and out. Also get the battalions that give you Impregnable Wall and cherish it. Make love to it. Take care of it, and it will take care of you. For example, Lorenz's paralogue throws a ton of enemy characters in your direction. Attack with you range and then use wall on them, as it makes them do 1 damage while recieving 1 damage.

On a side note, I forgot to recruit Ingrid and then do her paralogue. RIP Luin, I hardly ever knew you. I also threw away the movement +1 ring by mistake. I am greatly enjoying maddening mode, but that may be because I havent done the Ashe/Catherine paralogue and the Felix paralogue (Rodrigue...how many times do we have to teach you this lesson old man). Thank god for Mila's timewheel, Divine Pulse.

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18 hours ago, Hekselka said:

Hmmm, that might be a good idea.

I didn't really think of using stride right away because stride isn't as useful on maddening compared to the lower difficulties because enemy units tend to hit super hard but this might be a case of where it might work well.

I'll try to do it later in another week.

I am just at this Paralog. And I think I have a little advice by accident for the Beginning. It needs Stride and Resonant Flames. If you can look the 3 Enemies next to him with Resonance Flame you can get him to attack one of the ones who are weak after that. With little luck he even hits him and gives him the rest. Also its best to try to get the 2 Axe units at the Side done.

And you Lure Rodrigue also to a point he is a bit more save. 

Also I wish I had Sword Breaker for Bernadetta already. The Boss on this map has technically an Avo of 80. He has 30 Base, 20 through Sword Lv 5 and stands on a Tile which gives him +30.
also gets +2 Because Bandit Batallion. So its 82 Avo. Mages would also help, but Berni is just the most flexible for now. 

Edited by Stroud
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11 minutes ago, Stroud said:

I am just at this Paralog. And I think I have a little advice by accident for the Beginning. It needs Stride and Resonant Flames. If you can look the 3 Enemies next to him with Resonance Flame you can get him to attack one of the ones who are weak after that. With little luck he even hits him and gives him the rest. Also its best to try to get the 2 Axe units at the Side done.

And you Lure Rodrigue also to a point he is a bit more save. 

Also I wish I had Sword Breaker for Bernadetta already. The Boss on this map has technically an Avo of 80. He has 30 Base, 20 through Sword Lv 5 and stands on a Tile which gives him +30.
also gets +2 Because Bandit Batallion. So its 82 Avo. Mages would also help, but Berni is just the most flexible for now. 

The Rodrigue paralogue I actually managed to do just a few moments ago. I used @Technoweirdo's strategy and had Flayn rescue Rodrigue. I also had Wyvern Rider Edelgard this time so that made it a lot easier too. Somehow pulling Rodrigue back a bit made him smart enough not to pull off suicide moves. Sadly, I didn't manage to kill enough units because of that and lost one villager but I'm just happy I finished this one. The shield isn't that important anyway.

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14 minutes ago, Hekselka said:

The Rodrigue paralogue I actually managed to do just a few moments ago. I used @Technoweirdo's strategy and had Flayn rescue Rodrigue. I also had Wyvern Rider Edelgard this time so that made it a lot easier too. Somehow pulling Rodrigue back a bit made him smart enough not to pull off suicide moves. Sadly, I didn't manage to kill enough units because of that and lost one villager but I'm just happy I finished this one. The shield isn't that important anyway.

I'd disagree, especially since you're playing CF.

Adrestia is really lacking for tanky units. That shield really helps Felix tank enemy phases because it's Pavise and Aegis.

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12 minutes ago, Life said:

I'd disagree, especially since you're playing CF.

Adrestia is really lacking for tanky units. That shield really helps Felix tank enemy phases because it's Pavise and Aegis.

Doesn't it weigh a lot? I'd say that so far Spd has been the most important stat and I'd rather have Felix as high of a speed as possible.

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3 minutes ago, Hekselka said:

Doesn't it weigh a lot? I'd say that so far Spd has been the most important stat and I'd rather have Felix as high of a speed as possible.

5 Wt so you need 25 Str to mitigate it.

In return, you get: 6 Prt, 3 Rsl, Aegis, Pavise. And all of that is on one Accessory. Worth the trade off.

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Just now, Life said:

5 Wt so you need 25 Str to mitigate it.

In return, you get: 6 Prt, 3 Rsl, Aegis, Pavise. And all of that is on one Accessory. Worth the trade off.

Ah, right. Oh well. I can't go back and so far Felix has been pretty good so I'll just have him hold on his godess ring.

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So, I was going to do a NG+ Blue Lions run for Maddening, but it'd be my first time playing BL (So Dmitri and Dedue wouldn't be going in with any class masteries or weapon ranks). The plan was to try to get Dmitri's axe rank up early through instruction/goals so he could get Brigand. 

Now that I'm hearing so much about enemy stat inflation, weapon ranks, and the skills they're pretty much just given for free, I'm wondering if detouring into axes is really worth the loss to, say, Authority or Riding EXP. 

(That being the case, I could just give him the Super Boots and just have to worry about Lances, Axes, and Authority but where's the fun in that?)

All that in mind, I am planning to do NG+, so I'm wondering if that'll balance the challenge out somewhat. I do also have a few ideas in mind for things I could do to make things more interesting (Like not relying on Lysithea to nuke the Death Knight) but we'll have to see how it goes. 

TL;DR

1. Would it still be worth it to go off the beaten track a bit with Dmitri to get Brigand/Death Blow on Maddening, considering what that Axe experience is scooping up from other sources? (I don't have maxed out statues, but I was going to be using the Professor Knowledge bonus, which offsets his flaw, and +1 from Saint Cichol). Especially considering availability post timeskip to actually be trained?

2. Does NG+ offset the absurdity of Maddening somewhat? At least to the point where it provides a reasonable challenge that requires some tactical thinking, but isn't to the point of requiring super gimmicky strategies? At least in the experience of those who have played it. 

 

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22 minutes ago, Naoko_Akamori said:

So, I was going to do a NG+ Blue Lions run for Maddening, but it'd be my first time playing BL (So Dmitri and Dedue wouldn't be going in with any class masteries or weapon ranks). The plan was to try to get Dmitri's axe rank up early through instruction/goals so he could get Brigand. 

Now that I'm hearing so much about enemy stat inflation, weapon ranks, and the skills they're pretty much just given for free, I'm wondering if detouring into axes is really worth the loss to, say, Authority or Riding EXP. 

(That being the case, I could just give him the Super Boots and just have to worry about Lances, Axes, and Authority but where's the fun in that?)

All that in mind, I am planning to do NG+, so I'm wondering if that'll balance the challenge out somewhat. I do also have a few ideas in mind for things I could do to make things more interesting (Like not relying on Lysithea to nuke the Death Knight) but we'll have to see how it goes. 

TL;DR

1. Would it still be worth it to go off the beaten track a bit with Dmitri to get Brigand/Death Blow on Maddening, considering what that Axe experience is scooping up from other sources? (I don't have maxed out statues, but I was going to be using the Professor Knowledge bonus, which offsets his flaw, and +1 from Saint Cichol). Especially considering availability post timeskip to actually be trained?

2. Does NG+ offset the absurdity of Maddening somewhat? At least to the point where it provides a reasonable challenge that requires some tactical thinking, but isn't to the point of requiring super gimmicky strategies? At least in the experience of those who have played it. 

 

Re: Brigand Dimitri
Dimitri has a weakness in axes, right?
Well, NG+ means you'll at least be able to offset the weakness for tuition purposes with statue bonuses.
However, you can't offset the weakness for weekly study purposes; Yes, it's going to be a problem just reaching C.

Re: NG+'s effect on difficulty
You get more money at the start for buying weapons,
Aren't restricted by Prof Lv for purchases (Silver Shield would be greatly appreciated at the start, for example),
Get access to fully-leveled battalions (including Lord battalions) from the start of the game,
Have statue bonuses for tuition and exp gain, the latter of which being significantly reduced from Hard,
Can burn renown on former students to get them without effort,
Can burn renown on Byleth if you can't burn renown on students on a route you've never done,
-- Among other things.
Yes, NG+ eases the game up quite a bit.

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Maddening is the wrong difficulty to learn about paralogue I think. Apparently you need both characters to get all the rewards. I was wondering where my Indech Sword Fighters were, but I realized you need both characters to receive both battalions.

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6 minutes ago, Technoweirdo said:

Re: Brigand Dimitri
Dimitri has a weakness in axes, right?
Well, NG+ means you'll at least be able to offset the weakness for tuition purposes with statue bonuses.
However, you can't offset the weakness for weekly study purposes; Yes, it's going to be a problem just reaching C.

Re: NG+'s effect on difficulty
You get more money at the start for buying weapons,
Aren't restricted by Prof Lv for purchases (Silver Shield would be greatly appreciated at the start, for example),
Get access to fully-leveled battalions (including Lord battalions) from the start of the game,
Have statue bonuses for tuition and exp gain, the latter of which being significantly reduced from Hard,
Can burn renown on former students to get them without effort,
Can burn renown on Byleth if you can't burn renown on students on a route you've never done,
-- Among other things.
Yes, NG+ eases the game up quite a bit.

1. Well, D+ and then I can spam the certification since it's a 2/3 chance of success per attempt. I think that's 400 skill experience, so assuming I don't get any Greats or Perfects, it'll take about three chapters' worth of investment. 

2. Fair point, though I wasn't planning on going ham with Battalions too much until I unlocked them fairly. Same thing with shops, really. 

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