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6 minutes ago, Thane said:

Kind of used them all. And the problem is that once the enemies get baited the pain train starts. Ah well, I'll have a look but I'm mentally preparing this marking the end of my Maddening misadventures. Would've been a bit easier with a lord on my side.

Yeah, with a lord its really better.. Also Seteth comes pretty late so he will not learn Swift Strike fast enough..
I kind of prepared for this chapter. Petra was one of my weaker units. And she almost was not a flier until then. Overall this chapter has to be prepared for in one or another way. 
Als had luck that my Caspar could barely one hit the enemies. (Ok, Double hit with gauntlet)

Edited by Stroud

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2 hours ago, Stroud said:

Yeah, with a lord its really better.. Also Seteth comes pretty late so he will not learn Swift Strike fast enough..
I kind of prepared for this chapter. Petra was one of my weaker units. And she almost was not a flier until then. Overall this chapter has to be prepared for in one or another way. 
Als had luck that my Caspar could barely one hit the enemies. (Ok, Double hit with gauntlet)

I beat it! And in part thanks to your idea of going north first. Heh, I managed to only just beat it. One pulse left, Caspar had to be sacked, and I got a lucky hit or two in. I would've aggro'd the southern enemies (which I did once on purpose and got my ass kicked even after I had beaten the northern guys) if Dorothea hadn't been a dancer - had I chosen anyone else I wouldn't have been able to beat the map, I believe. 

It's kind of crazy just how little room there is for error for this map. You need fliers, for example, otherwise I don't know how you're supposed to beat it. I had a tough time on the academy phase Gronder Field map too but at least I could sack off units as much as I needed (that Ingrid was just ridiculous).

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52 minutes ago, Thane said:

I beat it! And in part thanks to your idea of going north first. Heh, I managed to only just beat it. One pulse left, Caspar had to be sacked, and I got a lucky hit or two in. I would've aggro'd the southern enemies (which I did once on purpose and got my ass kicked even after I had beaten the northern guys) if Dorothea hadn't been a dancer - had I chosen anyone else I wouldn't have been able to beat the map, I believe. 

It's kind of crazy just how little room there is for error for this map. You need fliers, for example, otherwise I don't know how you're supposed to beat it. I had a tough time on the academy phase Gronder Field map too but at least I could sack off units as much as I needed (that Ingrid was just ridiculous).

Gratz! Yeah this map is no joke. If Petra is not a Flier I don't know how you are supposed to keep her alive. I almost think its better to make Byleth a flier in a Silver Snow run to make this Map more bearable (I don't know how it is for Golden Deer and Blue Lion, but at least the Lords are powerful). I also don't know why, but the Aggro you gain from south in this map is just insane. In the northern its still difficult. But not as worse.

From now on you can care about your units in general. Its still difficult. But something like this won't happen again. Only some Paralogs have to be well thought if you take them on. At least they can be delayed or just skipped. 

Edited by Stroud

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3 minutes ago, Stroud said:

From now on you can care about your units in general. Its still difficult.

Yeah I'm a little surprised that the game can effectively end if you don't know this is coming and you chose to train students outside your house. Hell, just like you said, I don't know how Petra would've survived this without being a flier. 

It feels satisfying for sure, to beat a map just by the skin of your teeth, but at the same time, it's a bit scary to think that my run almost came to an end just because I hadn't picked a flying class for Byleth/trained Caspar.

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8 hours ago, GateCreeper said:

So far I'm in Chapter 6 of maddening on BL route and I was wondering if there are any units I should consider benching in this mode.

For instance, Dedue has been great for me early game but he's been falling off quite a bit now that my Dimitri actually has more Def than him (spd too) so I use him as my tank instead.

 Ashe has only gotten one str level for me and he's level 9... His mag is at 10 too... don't know how to feel about that.

 My Ingrid is severely underleveled, being level 6, and has not gotten a single point of str either.

I'm particularly struggling on Dedue's paralogue because of these three units not being able to contribute. Does it ever get any better?

 Everyone else in the BL house is doing fine, Felix being an amazing archer and Dimitri being both spd and Def blessed.

 However, can the lacking units explained above still be used or should I replace them with students from other houses? I don't even know where to start when it comes to recruits either. Right now I only have Marianne and Hilda recruited.

If someone seems like they're falling behind in the early game I would definitely consider benching them. I feel like the first third of the game becomes considerably easier if you focus your exp onto a smaller group of people instead of spreading it among your whole team.

In my BL run I gave exp to Byleth, Dimitri, Felix, and Dedue in the early game. Dedue specifically I feel works pretty well as a Wyvern, since the promotion to Wyvern Rider will drag his speed up to 17 regardless of how awful it was before then. Though if you haven't been training flying since basically the start of the game it might be too late for you, due to his flying weakness.

Afterwards, I strongly recommend that you supplement your team with cross recruits as necessary. Some of them join with really competitive stats, and you don't have to waste any exp training them before you recruit them. At the point in the game where you are now, you should definitely add both Catherine and Shamir to your team. They both have fairly good bases, and will be far better than whoever your two worst deployed units currently are. Later on you can also add extra students to your team as well. I would recommend Ferdinand, Petra, Hilda, and Leonie as the best physical units to recruit onto the BL.

Additional deployment slots that aren't dedicated to your physical combat units can be filled with utility characters, such as healers, dancers, someone with an important support gambit, etc. These units don't need as much exp to function, so they don't really compete with your physical units for kills, but are important enough that you should usually deploy them.

3 hours ago, Stroud said:

Yeah, with a lord its really better.. Also Seteth comes pretty late so he will not learn Swift Strike fast enough..

He joins with B+ lances and learns Swift Strikes at A. You probably won't have it for Ch 13, but you can realistically have his combat art around Ch 14 or 15.

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40 minutes ago, Silly said:

He joins with B+ lances and learns Swift Strikes at A. You probably won't have it for Ch 13, but you can realistically have his combat art around Ch 14 or 15.

Yeah, I am at chapter 15 now and he has learned it at the end of Chapter 14. I could have tried to focus on Lance only for his Goal. But for Chapter 13 its just not fast enough. 360 Skill experience is a bit much for just one chapter. There might be a way though. You can save up some Battle Quests until Chapter 12 which have easier opponents. At least 2 sets if solo battling with Seteth can be done there with Knowledge gem. Question is if its worth to just focus on Seteth there and at least prepare the others. As long as Seteth trains a bit in Chapter 12 he is a help in Chapter 13 with or without Swift Strike.

1 hour ago, Thane said:

Yeah I'm a little surprised that the game can effectively end if you don't know this is coming and you chose to train students outside your house. Hell, just like you said, I don't know how Petra would've survived this without being a flier. 

It feels satisfying for sure, to beat a map just by the skin of your teeth, but at the same time, it's a bit scary to think that my run almost came to an end just because I hadn't picked a flying class for Byleth/trained Caspar.

Yeah, this chapter really can be the end of the line which is frustrating. Which is why I am a fan of having multiple savestats. But this game only has 5 until now.. Unless I want to have more profiles. Which I am not a fan of.

At least its done now. And the next Chapter gets a bit easier. 

Edited by Stroud

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56 minutes ago, Silly said:

If someone seems like they're falling behind in the early game I would definitely consider benching them. I feel like the first third of the game becomes considerably easier if you focus your exp onto a smaller group of people instead of spreading it among your whole team.

In my BL run I gave exp to Byleth, Dimitri, Felix, and Dedue in the early game. Dedue specifically I feel works pretty well as a Wyvern, since the promotion to Wyvern Rider will drag his speed up to 17 regardless of how awful it was before then. Though if you haven't been training flying since basically the start of the game it might be too late for you, due to his flying weakness.

Afterwards, I strongly recommend that you supplement your team with cross recruits as necessary. Some of them join with really competitive stats, and you don't have to waste any exp training them before you recruit them. At the point in the game where you are now, you should definitely add both Catherine and Shamir to your team. They both have fairly good bases, and will be far better than whoever your two worst deployed units currently are. Later on you can also add extra students to your team as well. I would recommend Ferdinand, Petra, Hilda, and Leonie as the best physical units to recruit onto the BL.

Additional deployment slots that aren't dedicated to your physical combat units can be filled with utility characters, such as healers, dancers, someone with an important support gambit, etc. These units don't need as much exp to function, so they don't really compete with your physical units for kills, but are important enough that you should usually deploy them.

Dedue as a Wyvern Rider is definitely not possible at this point, I've been training him to become a war master. I feared that with his absence in some chapters after timeskip it would be hard for him to catch up, so I didn't funnel much exp into him and focused on Byleth, Dimitri, Felix, and Sylvain instead. 

Hilda's already on my team, so I can replace Dedue with her as my semi tank I guess. I was also thinking of Leonie to replace Ashe (though I guess Ashe could still function as a deadeye/waning shot user for support???) as my secondary bow knight, with Felix being the primary one. I was actually considering making Ingrid my dancer too. She has decent spells, decent avoid, and it's not like she'll be contributing much as a flier anyways when her strength has been abysmal for me. 

How many physical combat units should I generally focus on? I already have four in Byleth/Dimitri/Felix/Sylvain, with Hilda and possibly Leonie being the 5th and  6th one. My regular team comp would look something like this:

Byleth - War Master

Dimitri - Paladin/Great Lord

Felix - Bow Knight

Sylvain - Wyvern Lord

Hilda - Wyvern Lord

Leonie - Bow Knight

Catherine/Petra - Falcon Knight 

Mercedes - Bishop

Annette - Dark Knight

Ingrid - Dancer

Utility characters:

Marianne - Gremory/Mortal Savant (?)  

Dorothea - Gremory

Linhardt - Bishop

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I wouldn't consider spells or stats on a dancer (besides having enough charm to win the contest). Why have them attack/cast when you can dance someone better at attacking/casting?

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1 minute ago, Centh said:

I wouldn't consider spells or stats on a dancer (besides having enough charm to win the contest). Why have them attack/cast when you can dance someone better at attacking/casting?

That's fair enough, but Ingrid, Dedue and Ashe are my throwaway units regardless. I just think having extra access to utility in decent spells like physic + thoron make Ingrid have an edge over Dedue/Ashe as a dancer. In the end, it doesn't matter which one of them become a dancer though. I could even try Dedue out for the memes.

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3 minutes ago, Centh said:

I wouldn't consider spells or stats on a dancer (besides having enough charm to win the contest). Why have them attack/cast when you can dance someone better at attacking/casting?

because having more options is always better and might end up being useful in some instances?

btw just finished the chapter where Jeralt dies and it was pretty underwhelming, I feel like beasts in general did not scale all that well in lunatic/maddening, they just seem to have slightly more HP
even Sothis' paralogue was on the easier side

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27 minutes ago, AxelVDP said:

btw just finished the chapter where Jeralt dies and it was pretty underwhelming, I feel like beasts in general did not scale all that well in lunatic/maddening, they just seem to have slightly more HP
 even Sothis' paralogue was on the easier side

Relative to Hard, how much stronger were they?

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2 hours ago, GateCreeper said:

Dedue as a Wyvern Rider is definitely not possible at this point, I've been training him to become a war master. I feared that with his absence in some chapters after timeskip it would be hard for him to catch up, so I didn't funnel much exp into him and focused on Byleth, Dimitri, Felix, and Sylvain instead. 

Hilda's already on my team, so I can replace Dedue with her as my semi tank I guess. I was also thinking of Leonie to replace Ashe (though I guess Ashe could still function as a deadeye/waning shot user for support???) as my secondary bow knight, with Felix being the primary one. I was actually considering making Ingrid my dancer too. She has decent spells, decent avoid, and it's not like she'll be contributing much as a flier anyways when her strength has been abysmal for me. 

 How many physical combat units should I generally focus on?

I like focusing on roughly 4 frontline units in the very early stages in the game. Around chapter 6 you should consider expanding your roster to around 6 frontliners, and slowly add more as you feel comfortable. You should probably end with around 8ish frontline units, give or take.

If you're planning on using one of them, recruit Catherine, Cyril, and Shamir as early as possible. Catherine is recruitable as early as chapter 4, though a chapter 5 recruit is likely more realistic. Cyril is recruitable starting chapter 5. Shamir is recruitable starting chapter 6. 

For students, you usually want to hold off on recruiting them as long as possible, since they get bigger stat bonuses the longer you wait. Chapter 6 is when you can consider expanding your main squad with some cross recruited students, as this is the first chapter where they will experience significant stat bonuses. So if you need a few more units to fill out your roster (say you're not using Catherine, for example), consider recruiting them in chapter 6. If you don't need to though, hold off on cross recruits as long as possible (I would recommend recruiting somewhere around chapter 10 or 11).

As for your team now, Byleth, Dimitri, Felix, Sylvain is currently your core. You already have Hilda so I would probably add her and one more unit to your team (it can be Catherine, or you can go find a different unit).

For the remaining two or so slots on your team, you can either cross recruit additional students around chapter 10 or 11ish, such as Leonie if you want to use her (note that her C support locks after chapter 9, so if you're planning on recruiting via B support rather than training your lance rank, you need to start building support earlier). Or you can stick with one or both of Seteth/Gilbert, who are pretty good prepromotes. (Gilbert's start is kind of mediocre because his base speed is horrendous, but he can go Wyvern Rider to fix it.)

You also probably want some support units. A dancer, at least one or two healers/mages, and anybody else who can contribute decently without getting too much exp. 

1 hour ago, AxelVDP said:

because having more options is always better and might end up being useful in some instances?
 

The thing is though, there aren't enough resources to go around that you can make everybody overpowered. Experience, stat boosters, and in this game tutoring sessions are all limited.

And in Three Houses, just like in most Fire Emblem games, your units tend to snowball statistically: to the point where it is much more efficient to have one overpowered unit with double the resources and one unit with little resources, rather than two mediocre units with average resources. Because this is the case, units that can still contribute while taking up minimal resources become valuable. They're good because you can still have a functional unit while freeing up extra resources for the units that need it.

Sure, it's best to have ten overpowered units, one of which is a dancer. But that is somewhat unrealistic unless you allow for significant grinding.

Instead, we're generally choosing between having ten average units who have each received some attention, or having seven or eight stronger units who have received the majority of your focus along with a couple of supporting units such as your dancer, or your healers.

 

36 minutes ago, Shadow Mir said:

Relative to Hard, how much stronger were they?

They're not super bad. I believe on Maddening the Ch 9 beasts have about 50ish HP (70ish for the final bar), 14 AS, and attack in the high 30s. At this point your faster units can double them, and while they're bulky and hit somewhat hard, they're not overwhelming statistically compared to early game enemies. (Did you know that chapter 2 thieves also have 14 AS?)

EDIT: Just checked HM stats and it looks like the biggest difference is approximately +5 or so AS, +7ish Attack, and a bit more defensive bulk.

Edited by Silly

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16 minutes ago, Silly said:

They're not super bad. I believe on Maddening the Ch 9 beasts have about 50ish HP (70ish for the final bar), 14 AS, and attack in the high 30s. At this point your faster units can double them, and while they're bulky and hit somewhat hard, they're not overwhelming statistically compared to early game enemies. (Did you know that chapter 2 thieves also have 14 AS?)

EDIT: Just checked HM stats and it looks like the biggest difference is approximately +5 or so AS, +7ish Attack, and a bit more defensive bulk.

What about in Sothis's paralogue? How bad are the monsters there?

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30 minutes ago, Silly said:

The thing is though, there aren't enough resources to go around that you can make everybody overpowered. Experience, stat boosters, and in this game tutoring sessions are all limited. 

And in Three Houses, just like in most Fire Emblem games, your units tend to snowball statistically: to the point where it is much more efficient to have one overpowered unit with double the resources and one unit with little resources, rather than two mediocre units with average resources. Because this is the case, units that can still contribute while taking up minimal resources become valuable. They're good because you can still have a functional unit while freeing up extra resources for the units that need it. 

you are not wasting any resources by having a dancer with, say, physics or some other utility because his weapon ranks still increase even without tutoring at the end of every week tho

there WILL be times where it would be better to have the dancer do something else than dancing, maybe you have to rush with your units elsewhere quickly to save some green units and leave the dancer behind (where he can still use physics), or maybe you just need an extra gambit and having a non frail dancer (with some authority rank) would allow you to use it without dieing on enemy phase

I'm just saying that, yes, everyone can be a dancer, but having a dancer with some actual utility besides dancing gives you extra freedom and allows you to consider more options when playing

edit: besides Maddening is not even THAT hard where you HAVE to play super optimally without wasting ANYTHING in order to win

Edited by AxelVDP

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1 hour ago, Shadow Mir said:

What about in Sothis's paralogue? How bad are the monsters there?

21/22 AS on the Wolves and Birds. They're not bad if they don't double you.

Also, the reinforcements on that map are not ambush spawns, so they're considerably easier to deal with.

Edited by Silly

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1 hour ago, AxelVDP said:

you are not wasting any resources by having a dancer with, say, physics or some other utility because his weapon ranks still increase even without tutoring at the end of every week tho

there WILL be times where it would be better to have the dancer do something else than dancing, maybe you have to rush with your units elsewhere quickly to save some green units and leave the dancer behind (where he can still use physics), or maybe you just need an extra gambit and having a non frail dancer (with some authority rank) would allow you to use it without dieing on enemy phase

I'm just saying that, yes, everyone can be a dancer, but having a dancer with some actual utility besides dancing gives you extra freedom and allows you to consider more options when playing

edit: besides Maddening is not even THAT hard where you HAVE to play super optimally without wasting ANYTHING in order to win

wut

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2 hours ago, Silly said:

I like focusing on roughly 4 frontline units in the very early stages in the game. Around chapter 6 you should consider expanding your roster to around 6 frontliners, and slowly add more as you feel comfortable. You should probably end with around 8ish frontline units, give or take.

If you're planning on using one of them, recruit Catherine, Cyril, and Shamir as early as possible. Catherine is recruitable as early as chapter 4, though a chapter 5 recruit is likely more realistic. Cyril is recruitable starting chapter 5. Shamir is recruitable starting chapter 6. 

For students, you usually want to hold off on recruiting them as long as possible, since they get bigger stat bonuses the longer you wait. Chapter 6 is when you can consider expanding your main squad with some cross recruited students, as this is the first chapter where they will experience significant stat bonuses. So if you need a few more units to fill out your roster (say you're not using Catherine, for example), consider recruiting them in chapter 6. If you don't need to though, hold off on cross recruits as long as possible (I would recommend recruiting somewhere around chapter 10 or 11).

As for your team now, Byleth, Dimitri, Felix, Sylvain is currently your core. You already have Hilda so I would probably add her and one more unit to your team (it can be Catherine, or you can go find a different unit).

For the remaining two or so slots on your team, you can either cross recruit additional students around chapter 10 or 11ish, such as Leonie if you want to use her (note that her C support locks after chapter 9, so if you're planning on recruiting via B support rather than training your lance rank, you need to start building support earlier). Or you can stick with one or both of Seteth/Gilbert, who are pretty good prepromotes. (Gilbert's start is kind of mediocre because his base speed is horrendous, but he can go Wyvern Rider to fix it.)

You also probably want some support units. A dancer, at least one or two healers/mages, and anybody else who can contribute decently without getting too much exp. 

Thanks for the advice, exp allocation and combat unit choice was what I was struggling with for the most part. Think I have more of an idea on what my team lineup should be for the next coming chapters.

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The Reunion chapter seems to be one of the biggest headaches on Maddening. Is there a "recommended" number of units you should (at least try to) train from your own house to make it easier?

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4 minutes ago, GateCreeper said:

Thanks for the advice, exp allocation and combat unit choice was what I was struggling with for the most part. Think I have more of an idea on what my team lineup should be for the next coming chapters.

Fire emblem is a game of opportunity cost. Each resource (xp, training, boosters, support rank) you give to one unit means the others can't have it. Being able to make someone useful without taking away from another is great value in itself. Annette with authority C+ is an example of this. I trade some early studying for her enabling my other units to get things done/get more xp. Best vague example: you can have one unit who can chew through most maps with a buddy who comes along or two units who struggle to deal with enemy pulls.

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Soooo how do you do BE chapter 5? I'm hard stuck there. If I try to play time, I see 10+ enemies pushing at the same time with archers all around em. If I try to stride and rush, the reinforcements kill my units on the same time they spawn. All of my units def are shit. Only Byleth and El at 11, 10. Honestly, I've never given up like this before. I have Sylvain recruited. It was a mistake to try and do it with BE students only.

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1 hour ago, Spectrum said:

Soooo how do you do BE chapter 5? I'm hard stuck there. If I try to play time, I see 10+ enemies pushing at the same time with archers all around em. If I try to stride and rush, the reinforcements kill my units on the same time they spawn. All of my units def are shit. Only Byleth and El at 11, 10. Honestly, I've never given up like this before. I have Sylvain recruited. It was a mistake to try and do it with BE students only.

Let Gilbert be defeated at the beginning. If he triggers the Archer in the Middle they are starting to steamroll you, a horrible Avalanche I dare say.

Edited by Stroud

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19 hours ago, DefyingFates said:

The Reunion chapter seems to be one of the biggest headaches on Maddening. Is there a "recommended" number of units you should (at least try to) train from your own house to make it easier?

I'm not sure if every version works like the BL one, but I think you could probably get by with just a few. The three students that spawn in the top right are completely safe, and most of the enemies don't move on their own. The only real risk I noticed was enemies going to attack the students in the top left, but I'm not exactly sure which units are there in Silver Snow. Chances are you can handle that as long as you have a flier (preferably Byleth). Ignatz and Lorenz might be difficult to save because they're both bench tier, but Ashe and Gilbert is easy enough since Gilbert has around 30 Defense when he joins. 

The most difficult part of the map is the opening turns imo. I made it through that part with only a few combat units on the left side. Again, I don't really remember who spawns where in Silver Snow, but in the other two routes, Claude/Byleth/Hilda and Dimitri/Byleth/Annette can probably deal with the beginning of the map. This is hinging on Hilda and Annette both being Wyverns though. That way, they have the mobility to get out of their opening position without drawing too much aggro. They're not really necessary imo, but it does make the map a little easier. Mercedes and Marianne can usually handle the healing without moving very much, so the map should play out simply enough. So to answer the question, probably at least 4? One healer and three combat units was enough for me at least. 

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7 minutes ago, LegendOfLoog said:

I don't really remember who spawns where in Silver Snow

I believe Petra spawns in the bottom left, Caspar and Dorothea spawn in the top left.

1 hour ago, Spectrum said:

Soooo how do you do BE chapter 5? I'm hard stuck there. If I try to play time, I see 10+ enemies pushing at the same time with archers all around em. If I try to stride and rush, the reinforcements kill my units on the same time they spawn. All of my units def are shit. Only Byleth and El at 11, 10. Honestly, I've never given up like this before. I have Sylvain recruited. It was a mistake to try and do it with BE students only.

When I played that chapter I got rid of the archers early. Bait the archers right up to the wall with someone that can take a hit, then kill them with your own bow user (Rally Str + Spd really helped here). You can always mission assist Annette, who has Rally Str at base, but you won't have Rally Speed on the BE route unless you recruit someone.

The group of other units that charge you are much less threatening when they're all melee units, since you can restrict their movement enough that none of your units are taking enough hits to be killed.

Edited by Silly

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30 minutes ago, Stroud said:

Let Gilbert be defeated at the beginning. If he triggers the Archer in the Middle they are starting to steamroll you, a horrible Avalanche I dare say.

Lol wish I knew this earlier.

7 minutes ago, Silly said:

I believe Petra spawns in the bottom left, Caspar and Dorothea spawn in the top left.

When I played that chapter I got rid of the archers early. Bait the archers right up to the wall with someone that can take a hit, then kill them with your own bow user (Rally Str + Spd really helped here). You can always mission assist Annette, who has Rally Str at base, but you won't have Rally Speed on the BE route unless you recruit someone.

The group of other units that charge you are much less threatening when they're all melee units, since you can restrict their movement enough that none of your units are taking enough hits to be killed.

I tried your method but since I didn't have rally speed, I used speed carrots on Bernie. But sadly, they still stormed me. I left El(Armored Knight) at the last tile they can attack to bait as much as I can, then I used gambits on non-ranged enemies so I can go and kill the archers/mages. It worked after 34 turns. Lol.

Edited by Spectrum

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36 minutes ago, Silly said:

I believe Petra spawns in the bottom left, Caspar and Dorothea spawn in the top left.

Yeah, they spawn like this. Which is why I was glad about Petra being a flier and not ignoring to train Caspar. Ironically my two strongest units spawned at the save point... 

 

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