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14 minutes ago, DefyingFates said:

Sounds like Maddening is just "more stats" now that more people have formed opinions on it...

I see that Rallies are more useful now, what about positioning based Skills like Sylvain and Seteth's Personals and Sacred Power? Are they more useful now as well?

Damage is damage, and you want to deal more damage.
As those abilities are passive auras, they don't require burning an action to use either; just careful positioning.
Hilda's been pretty nice as a result as has Leonie.

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3 hours ago, Technoweirdo said:

Damage is damage, and you want to deal more damage.
As those abilities are passive auras, they don't require burning an action to use either; just careful positioning.
Hilda's been pretty nice as a result as has Leonie.

Sounds good, thank you!

I imagine this is too early to ask, but just in case:

Is there a consensus on which route is easiest? I'm seeing a lot of praise of BL in the early game thanks to Dedue, Felix and Lance of Ruin!Sylvain, but does that also apply to late game (I'd like to do the "Maddening without NG+" challenge at some point)? Thanks in advance!

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10 minutes ago, DefyingFates said:

I imagine this is too early to ask, but just in case:

Is there a consensus on which route is easiest? I'm seeing a lot of praise of BL in the early game thanks to Dedue, Felix and Lance of Ruin!Sylvain, but does that also apply to late game (I'd like to do the "Maddening without NG+" challenge at some point)? Thanks in advance!

I had asked something similar earlier, and was told that Blue Lions was easiest, at least in earlygame.

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15 minutes ago, Shadow Mir said:

I had asked something similar earlier, and was told that Blue Lions was easiest, at least in earlygame.

Yeah, and I've also heard that the difficulty plateaus halfway through Act 1 before spiking again in Act 2, which makes me think that's the Act to focus on when evaluating difficulty. For example I can already imagine the final boss of SS being a nightmare because of how its structured. I thought the easiest would be CF at first, but while it's the shortest route it also has the most monsters IIRC, which would be especially tricky on the final map due to the power-up mechanic they get there (and being magic proof, of course).

Oh, and I hear that giving everyone bows is the way to go. Why is that, and does that apply to the entire game or just until your roster gets to class up?

Edited by DefyingFates
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4 minutes ago, DefyingFates said:

Oh, and I hear that giving everyone bows is the way to go. Why is that, and does that apply to the entire game or just until your roster gets to class up?

IIRC it's because avoiding counters is important. I'm sure there are other reasons, but I'll let someone else state those because I don't know.

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A lot of the time you need two rounds of combat to take down enemies. If you attack with a melee weapon then you eat a counter, which can be less than ideal when there are so many enemies attacking you and you only have so many healers available per turn.

Chipping at 2 range before finishing off the enemy lets you preserve HP, which is definitely relevant. Hand Axes and Javelins suck, so bows are the way to go if you need to chip at 2 range.

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1 hour ago, DefyingFates said:

Oh, and I hear that giving everyone bows is the way to go. Why is that, and does that apply to the entire game or just until your roster gets to class up?

Bows are very useful early on because enemy counterattacks are extremely painful; bows let you wear down the enemy and then finish them off without taking any damage yourself.  This is especially useful for Black Eagles (the route I'm currently doing), as they don't have a physical tank.  The basic combat art, Curved Shot, also lets you hit from 3 range, which is nice if the enemy has a 1-2 range weapon, or if the enemy is just outside normal effective range.  Bows are also fairly lightweight (not really impactful except with Petra) and have good accuracy.

I'm not sure about all game (I've only just completed Chapter 6), but at least early on having one on most characters is preferred.

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@Tombstone88 Thanks! Are you using Iron Bows or Training Bows?

Speaking of (and I think I've asked this before - if so, sorry!): are Training Weapons actually worth using this time around? They felt like joke weapons to me, but with how important AS is this time around I imagine they're much more valuable now?

Edited by DefyingFates
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23 minutes ago, DefyingFates said:

I assume this is because Bows have better accuracy?

Better accuracy, less weight, and more might.

Edited by Shadow Mir
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I'm about to start a NG+ playthrough in Maddening, and it'll be my first time playing the BL route. I've got most of the BL units some classes mastered, so they'll be good to go, but I don't have any for Dmitri and Dedue. Brigand is easy enough on Dedue, not so much on Dmitri, and I feel like Deathblow is kind of super important. 

With my current statue buffs, I can get Dmitri up to +7 skill rank per instruct (So, at least 40 experience per week assuming no Greats or Perfects). I think this equals out to ~10 weeks to get D+ (Which lets me attempt the exam with a 2/3 chance of success at least). Is this worth doing in the early game, or is the three chapters or so of EXP I lose for something he's actually proficient in not worth it? 

 

Edited by Naoko_Akamori
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14 minutes ago, DefyingFates said:

@Tombstone88 Thanks! Are you using Iron Bows or Training Bows?

Speaking of (and I think I've asked this before - if so, sorry!): are Training Weapons actually worth using this time around? They felt like joke weapons to me, but with how important AS is this time around I imagine they're much more valuable now?

I only used some very early on on certain characters like Petra.

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17 minutes ago, Naoko_Akamori said:

I'm about to start a NG+ playthrough in Maddening, and it'll be my first time playing the BL route. I've got most of the BL units some classes mastered, so they'll be good to go, but I don't have any for Dmitri and Dedue. Brigand is easy enough on Dedue, not so much on Dmitri, and I feel like Deathblow is kind of super important. 

With my current statue buffs, I can get Dmitri up to +7 skill rank per instruct (So, at least 40 experience per week assuming no Greats or Perfects). I think this equals out to ~10 weeks to get D+ (Which lets me attempt the exam with a 2/3 chance of success at least). Is this worth doing in the early game, or is the three chapters or so of EXP I lose for something he's actually proficient in not worth it? 

I don't think it's worth it because Dimitri has the tools to kill things without Death Blow. He has an insane Strength stat, and with Battalion Wrath, Battalion Vantage, and a Killer weapon, he breaks the game on Enemy Phase. All he needs is Retribution, and in BL, you unlock a D rank battalion in the 11th or 12th month with that Gambit. I'm about 3/4ths of the way in now, so what I did was keep his goals on Authority and Lances. He reaches the important skills a lot quicker than if you spend time in Brigand. If you go Riding to A+, Authority to A, and Lances to A+, you already have Lance Prowess, Battalion Wrath and Vantage, and Movement +1. That one empty skill slot can be replaced by many other skills, and I don't think Death Blow is particularly important on an Enemy Phase unit. Not to say he would turn out bad, but I just don't think Death Blow is necessary, and you can spend that time as a Cavalier instead to pick up Desperation if you want. It's a pretty solid skill on Maddening because the game is much more difficult in general. 

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42 minutes ago, DefyingFates said:

@Tombstone88 Thanks! Are you using Iron Bows or Training Bows?

Speaking of (and I think I've asked this before - if so, sorry!): are Training Weapons actually worth using this time around? They felt like joke weapons to me, but with how important AS is this time around I imagine they're much more valuable now?

I'm doing BE Edelgard route and I've just finished ch. 11 and I definitely recommend training weapons. They're very useful at the start because they can make the difference between doubling/being doubled. You should even upgrade them as soon as you can at the blacksmith so they weigh even less.

Even now I still use them a lot with my Wyvern Rider Petra, Byleth and Edelgard. In Edelgard using Training Axe+ with her strongest CA has sometimes even saved me by killing one enemy before they could hit anyone else.

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16 minutes ago, LegendOfLoog said:

I don't think it's worth it because Dimitri has the tools to kill things without Death Blow. He has an insane Strength stat, and with Battalion Wrath, Battalion Vantage, and a Killer weapon, he breaks the game on Enemy Phase. All he needs is Retribution, and in BL, you unlock a D rank battalion in the 11th or 12th month with that Gambit. I'm about 3/4ths of the way in now, so what I did was keep his goals on Authority and Lances. He reaches the important skills a lot quicker than if you spend time in Brigand. If you go Riding to A+, Authority to A, and Lances to A+, you already have Lance Prowess, Battalion Wrath and Vantage, and Movement +1. That one empty skill slot can be replaced by many other skills, and I don't think Death Blow is particularly important on an Enemy Phase unit. Not to say he would turn out bad, but I just don't think Death Blow is necessary, and you can spend that time as a Cavalier instead to pick up Desperation if you want. It's a pretty solid skill on Maddening because the game is much more difficult in general. 

Alright. Whew, that's... a load off my mind, really.

What do you recommend doing for Annette? Lysithea kind of makes her redundant as a mage, so I was thinking sticking her on a Wyvern to maximize Rally capabilities (She CAN Canto after Rallying, right?) 

Edited by Naoko_Akamori
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58 minutes ago, DefyingFates said:

@Tombstone88 Thanks! Are you using Iron Bows or Training Bows?

Speaking of (and I think I've asked this before - if so, sorry!): are Training Weapons actually worth using this time around? They felt like joke weapons to me, but with how important AS is this time around I imagine they're much more valuable now?

No problem!  I've used both Iron Bows and Training Bows; it sort of depends on the unit and the scenario.

Training weapons are really useful in the very early chapters, as the enemy's AS is unforgiving in the first few battles.  Petra could only avoid getting doubled by Dimitri when using a Training Sword, Caspar needs Training Gauntlets to avoid getting doubled period, etc.  A Training Axe on Edelgard is also very useful.  However, their main use is for enemy phase; during player phase, you need all the damage you can get.

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1 hour ago, Naoko_Akamori said:

Alright. Whew, that's... a load off my mind, really.

What do you recommend doing for Annette? Lysithea kind of makes her redundant as a mage, so I was thinking sticking her on a Wyvern to maximize Rally capabilities (She CAN Canto after Rallying, right?) 

Yeah, and that's what I went for. In Hard, enemies were weak enough that you could realistically go Pegasus Knight to get Darting Blow on the way, but that isn't true here. I recommend pumping Annette's Authority to C+ as quickly as possible, and then focusing on Axes and Flying. Fiendish Blow helps her damage a lot if she needs to attack, and Bolt Axe+ gives her 3 range. And yes, she can Canto after Rallying which is really awesome, and with a Dancer, she can give two units 4-5 more AS and 4 more Str each turn. Even if you still wanted to make her a Dark Knight, I'd still go Wyvern Rider at least because 4 Movement stings and Warlock doesn't give anything useful besides the Magic growth. 

Edit: I also want to add in my Dimitri's skill levels for reference. I'm at Chapter 19, and right now, he has an S in Lances, A+ in Authority, and an A+ in Riding. I think in a way, it's easier to reach S+ in this game mode because you're incentivized to bench the bad units in the early game. 

Edited by LegendOfLoog
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22 minutes ago, Thane said:

Now I schedule teatimes and train everyone's authority because goddamn that's a lifesaver. 

Charm is for Gambits, right? is there a good Charm stat to aim for for everyone? And during Exploration, how do you balance that with Faculty/ Advanced Training?

@Hekselka, @Tombstone88: Thank you very much! Guess Training weapons it is then when I finally start my Maddening runs. That's a weird thought...

Edited by DefyingFates
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1 minute ago, DefyingFates said:

Charm is for Gambits, right? is there a good Charm stat to aim for for everyone? And during Exploration, how do you balance that with Faculty/ Advanced Training?

Honestly I just started realizing just how good gambits are in Maddening, so now I'm making sure to invite people to teatime from time to time, since it gives charm to both Byleth and the one you have tea with. When someone has a birthday you get a free teatime event, too!

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2 minutes ago, Thane said:

Honestly I just started realizing just how good gambits are in Maddening, so now I'm making sure to invite people to teatime from time to time, since it gives charm to both Byleth and the one you have tea with. When someone has a birthday you get a free teatime event, too!

Same.

In my defense, you don't really need gambits on normal or even hard.

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3 minutes ago, Hekselka said:

Same.

In my defense, you don't really need gambits on normal or even hard.

I realized it during the first Gronder map. Many of the enemy students barely took any damage, physical or magical, besides from battalions. Honestly I'm surprised I beat that map; I only really cleared it because the defeated characters on your team don't actually die permanently. 

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26 minutes ago, LegendOfLoog said:

Yeah, and that's what I went for. In Hard, enemies were weak enough that you could realistically go Pegasus Knight to get Darting Blow on the way, but that isn't true here. I recommend pumping Annette's Authority to C+ as quickly as possible, and then focusing on Axes and Flying. Fiendish Blow helps her damage a lot if she needs to attack, and Bolt Axe+ gives her 3 range. And yes, she can Canto after Rallying which is really awesome, and with a Dancer, she can give two units 4-5 more AS and 4 more Str each turn. Even if you still wanted to make her a Dark Knight, I'd still go Wyvern Rider at least because 4 Movement stings and Warlock doesn't give anything useful besides the Magic growth. 

Edit: I also want to add in my Dimitri's skill levels for reference. I'm at Chapter 19, and right now, he has an S in Lances, A+ in Authority, and an A+ in Riding. I think in a way, it's easier to reach S+ in this game mode because you're incentivized to bench the bad units in the early game. 

Alright! So far, my team's looking like:

Great Lord Dmitri, Enlightened One Byleth, Fortress Knight (By way of War Master) Dedue, Bow Knight Felix, Wyvern Lord Annette, Wyvern Lord Sylvain, Bishop Mercedes, Dancer Marianne, Falcon Knight Ingrid, and Dark Knight Lysithea (AKA - We took the living nuclear bomb and put her on a horse). 

I'm not going for Marianne right away (I want to let the AI get a few levels into her), so I'm going to be low-manning it (Ashe isn't gonna cut it) until I pick her up. Annette's going to stay Adjunct to Felix until she gets a few levels. 

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11 minutes ago, Naoko_Akamori said:

Alright! So far, my team's looking like:

Great Lord Dmitri, Enlightened One Byleth, Fortress Knight (By way of War Master) Dedue, Bow Knight Felix, Wyvern Lord Annette, Wyvern Lord Sylvain, Bishop Mercedes, Dancer Marianne, Falcon Knight Ingrid, and Dark Knight Lysithea (AKA - We took the living nuclear bomb and put her on a horse). 

I'm not going for Marianne right away (I want to let the AI get a few levels into her), so I'm going to be low-manning it (Ashe isn't gonna cut it) until I pick her up. Annette's going to stay Adjunct to Felix until she gets a few levels. 

Looks good. The one thing I'd recommend is giving Ingrid a sword early so she isn't always doubled. In Sylvain's case, he generally gains enough bulk in the early game that he narrowly avoids being one rounded by some enemies, but Ingrid pretty much just dies, so I'd slap a Training Sword on her ASAP and pick up Speed +2 from the Myrmidon line so she can put her speed growth to good use. 

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