Maddening mode is out

[Naoko_Akamori]

18 minutes ago, LegendOfLoog said:

Looks good. The one thing I'd recommend is giving Ingrid a sword early so she isn't always doubled. In Sylvain's case, he generally gains enough bulk in the early game that he narrowly avoids being one rounded by some enemies, but Ingrid pretty much just dies, so I'd slap a Training Sword on her ASAP and pick up Speed +2 from the Myrmidon line so she can put her speed growth to good use. 

Wow. Am I ever going to be able to double anything? 

[DefyingFates]

49 minutes ago, Thane said:

Honestly I just started realizing just how good gambits are in Maddening, so now I'm making sure to invite people to teatime from time to time, since it gives charm to both Byleth and the one you have tea with. When someone has a birthday you get a free teatime event, too!

Thanks! Is there a tea party guide anywhere?

Also, I checked Nintendo's tweet about the title screen again and it just says to play without NG+, so will Maddening Casual also count? I'm hearing a lot of horror stories about the early game so if I don't have the benefits of NG+ I may switch to Casual if my run turns too sour.

[LegendOfLoog]

3 minutes ago, Naoko_Akamori said:

Wow. Am I ever going to be able to double anything? 

Uhhh, well, that depends on the point in the game. Ingrid just doesn't have enough base speed to do much at the beginning. If you can manage to get her past that though, she should double at least some enemies during the midgame. Her mediocre Strength growth really hurts though because she probably won't be doubling many fast units with heavier lances, and she'll hit like a wet noodle with lighter lances. Falcon Knight doesn't help her much with that, but if you are worried about her Strength, Wyvern is a potential option to go for. If you're still struggling to double, then I suppose you could give her Speed Carrots. I like giving those to Dimitri more though because he gets much more out of it and comes the closest to soloing the game out of any unit here, imo. 

I personally think Sylvain is a better unit than her despite their similar start because he gets Swift Strikes once he reaches an A rank in Lances. A guaranteed Brave effect on any of your lances is pretty nice, and it makes up for his lower Speed in comparison, at least on Player Phase. With Death Blow and Str +2, he hits like an absolute truck and eviscerates enemy Swordmasters who cannot be doubled without using Brave weapons, Combat Arts, or gauntlets. It isn't just useful for them either because many of the units approaching the endgame still have high AS. I've seen Paladins with 30 AS, so that should tell you all that you need to know about how useful Brave weapons are. And as a nice side bonus, both hits from Swift Strikes can proc his Crest, so that's even more potential damage. 

[Nobody]

I just beat the blue lions path. The last 2 chapters were pretty tough. New screen is nice.

[Naoko_Akamori]

14 minutes ago, Nobody said:

I just beat the blue lions path. The last 2 chapters were pretty tough. New screen is nice.

Oh nice. So it's more than just a color change?

20 minutes ago, LegendOfLoog said:

Uhhh, well, that depends on the point in the game. Ingrid just doesn't have enough base speed to do much at the beginning. If you can manage to get her past that though, she should double at least some enemies during the midgame. Her mediocre Strength growth really hurts though because she probably won't be doubling many fast units with heavier lances, and she'll hit like a wet noodle with lighter lances. Falcon Knight doesn't help her much with that, but if you are worried about her Strength, Wyvern is a potential option to go for. If you're still struggling to double, then I suppose you could give her Speed Carrots. I like giving those to Dimitri more though because he gets much more out of it and comes the closest to soloing the game out of any unit here, imo. 

I personally think Sylvain is a better unit than her despite their similar start because he gets Swift Strikes once he reaches an A rank in Lances. A guaranteed Brave effect on any of your lances is pretty nice, and it makes up for his lower Speed in comparison, at least on Player Phase. With Death Blow and Str +2, he hits like an absolute truck and eviscerates enemy Swordmasters who cannot be doubled without using Brave weapons, Combat Arts, or gauntlets. It isn't just useful for them either because many of the units approaching the endgame still have high AS. I've seen Paladins with 30 AS, so that should tell you all that you need to know about how useful Brave weapons are. And as a nice side bonus, both hits from Swift Strikes can proc his Crest, so that's even more potential damage. 

30 AS Paladins... Good lord. 

Oh, also, I should ask. Are you doing your playthrough on NG or NG+? I might give it an honest college try on NG just to see how far I can go with what I've learned, and not relying on Renown/Statue buffs. 

[LegendOfLoog]

4 minutes ago, Naoko_Akamori said:

Oh, also, I should ask. Are you doing your playthrough on NG or NG+? I might give it an honest college try on NG just to see how far I can go with what I've learned, and not relying on Renown/Statue buffs. 

NG. I recommend it as it really was a breath of fresh air for me after replaying Hard/Classic a few times. Also for that title screen. 

[Nobody]

10 minutes ago, Naoko_Akamori said:

Oh nice. So it's more than just a color change?

Sothis is sleeping in the chair now.

[Tombstone88]

2 hours ago, Nobody said:

 

  Reveal hidden contents

Sothis is sleeping in the chair now.

Uh, do you mean this picture?

Spoiler

Because this is from clearing the game on any difficulty, not just Maddening.

[zuibangde]

So I just finished Miklan’s chapter and it took sososososo long.

Magic users such as Hubert and Dorothea are much less reliable in maddening mode due to their accuracy being at the 80s at best. Dorothea in particular hovers around the 60s to 70s most of the time. I’m not sure if anyone else is experiencing this with their magic users?

[Modirufa6317]

1 hour ago, zuibangde said:

So I just finished Miklan’s chapter and it took sososososo long.

Magic users such as Hubert and Dorothea are much less reliable in maddening mode due to their accuracy being at the 80s at best. Dorothea in particular hovers around the 60s to 70s most of the time. I’m not sure if anyone else is experiencing this with their magic users?

Thunder and dark magic have below average accuracy, so that's just those two units. (and lysithea?).

Edited September 17, 2019 by Modirufa6317

[ck425]

Do folk recommend trying Maddening NG+ first but a NG Maddening run?

[FoliFF]

Sigh and I just recently started BE Hard/Classic. Oh it matters not since I'll just pick another house instead. So what do people recommend for Maddening GD or BL. Also am I to believe that BL story is stronger compared to GD? I'm having such a hard time to pick which house for my fresh maddening run 😅

[redlight]

19 minutes ago, FoliFF said:

Sigh and I just recently started BE Hard/Classic. Oh it matters not since I'll just pick another house instead. So what do people recommend for Maddening GD or BL. Also am I to believe that BL story is stronger compared to GD? I'm having such a hard time to pick which house for my fresh maddening run 😅

GD gives you an explanation for Fodlan's past and ties many threads albeit in a rushed and uneventful manner. It's a bit generic if I'm being honest as the main antagonists and final boss of that route leave a lot to be desired. BL while not having all plot threads solved, does technically deal with the most important one. BL does have the strongest story out of the bunch and the best moments in the game, but like the others there are bits of mediocrity or poorly thought out elements. It also has the best version of Edelgard IMO.

[FoliFF]

37 minutes ago, redlight said:

GD gives you an explanation for Fodlan's past and ties many threads albeit in a rushed and uneventful manner. It's a bit generic if I'm being honest as the main antagonists and final boss of that route leave a lot to be desired. BL while not having all plot threads solved, does technically deal with the most important one. BL does have the strongest story out of the bunch and the best moments in the game, but like the others there are bits of mediocrity or poorly thought out elements. It also has the best version of Edelgard IMO.

I'll start with GD then. Just remembered that church route is very similar if not the same as GD and I rather not do same thing twice in a row.

[redlight]

6 minutes ago, FoliFF said:

I'll start with GD then. Just remembered that church route is very similar if not the same as GD and I rather not do same thing twice in a row.

GD is identical. Not BL

[DefyingFates]

With how important Speed is, I'm assuming unlocking Pegasus Knight mastery (i.e. Darting Blow) via renown is a must for any character that got it in a previous run (if playing on NG+)?

@LegendOfLoog, @Nobody: Could you tell us more about your NG runs please? It sounds like you both did BL? Why was that, and what were some particularly tricky chapters and how did you deal with them?

P.S. Also, is it true that Maddening Casual is also enough to unlock the new title screen?

Edited September 17, 2019 by DefyingFates

[pekingduck]

7 hours ago, FoliFF said:

Sigh and I just recently started BE Hard/Classic. Oh it matters not since I'll just pick another house instead. So what do people recommend for Maddening GD or BL. Also am I to believe that BL story is stronger compared to GD? I'm having such a hard time to pick which house for my fresh maddening run 😅

The story is really different. In BL, narrative is a little tighter, there is more stuff unresolved with the lore, and it's more focused on the core cast of the Blue Lions nobles. I haven't done the Church path (giving some time for that, will probably do that next year), but my personal favorite routes story-wise are actually Verdant Wind (GD) and Crimson Flower (BE). I had some issues with Crimson Flower's story initially because of how rushed it gets, but I actually appreciate the fact now that it finishes in a tight manner. There was a lot more story that could have been examined, but I found that GD and BL both drag a little bit towards the end when they don't focus as much on the interesting content. I thought Verdant Wind was great for the world-building that it adds, especially with respect to the goings on outside of Fodlan. BL IMO has the best start of all of the routes. Post-time-skip, Dimitri just got a little too goofy and serious for me. I didn't find his "mental decline" and PTSD that convincing. Claude and Edelgard were just much more compelling lords for me.

[De Geso]

15 minutes ago, pekingduck said:

The story is really different. In BL, narrative is a little tighter, there is more stuff unresolved with the lore, and it's more focused on the core cast of the Blue Lions nobles. I haven't done the Church path (giving some time for that, will probably do that next year), but my personal favorite routes story-wise are actually Verdant Wind (GD) and Crimson Flower (BE). I had some issues with Crimson Flower's story initially because of how rushed it gets, but I actually appreciate the fact now that it finishes in a tight manner. There was a lot more story that could have been examined, but I found that GD and BL both drag a little bit towards the end when they don't focus as much on the interesting content. I thought Verdant Wind was great for the world-building that it adds, especially with respect to the goings on outside of Fodlan. BL IMO has the best start of all of the routes. Post-time-skip, Dimitri just got a little too goofy and serious for me. I didn't find his "mental decline" and PTSD that convincing. Claude and Edelgard were just much more compelling lords for me.

From what I hear, if you've seen Black Eagles part 1 and Verdant Wind, you've seen the whole Church route...but maybe there are some changes people fail to mention.

[LegendOfLoog]

5 hours ago, DefyingFates said:

With how important Speed is, I'm assuming unlocking Pegasus Knight mastery (i.e. Darting Blow) via renown is a must for any character that got it in a previous run (if playing on NG+)?

@LegendOfLoog, @Nobody: Could you tell us more about your NG runs please? It sounds like you both did BL? Why was that, and what were some particularly tricky chapters and how did you deal with them?

P.S. Also, is it true that Maddening Casual is also enough to unlock the new title screen?

Darting Blow isn't as great as you might think. It's probably significant in the early game, but later on, enemies becomes extremely fast to the point that Darting Blow is more likely to prevent you from being doubled than doubling, and even then, it may not be enough. I just cleared Ch. 19, and the Heroes there had 40 AS. Good luck doubling those without a Brave weapon or a stockpile of Speed Carrots.

I chose BL because that was my first run, so I thought I'd replay it. It's probably a good choice for anyone trying Maddening for the first time because I think they have the best early game. Felix, Dimitri, and Dedue are all pretty solid combat units in their own way. Mercedes and Annette have great utility while being able to deal magic chip damage early if necessary. The only bad characters in the early game are Sylvain, Ingrid, and Ashe. Sylvain grows out of it once he gets Swift Strikes and Death Blow, but I think Ingrid and Ashe are bench-tier on this route. Here are some chapters that were sort of difficult so far. 

• Chapter 1: Clearing this chapter is kind of RNG. Almost every enemy unit has the chance to crit you, so you just have to make sure you don't lose Dimitri or Byleth. It's a lot easier since permadeath is turned off, but it can be annoying if the enemy gets a random crit on someone. 
• Chapter 2: The enemies here are kind of dangerous. What I did was lure the first three across the bridge, take them out on my next turn, and then, I move upwards to the right. You really don't want to engage the enemies that are moving at you from the north right next to the stationary ones to the west. It makes surviving much more difficult. Once you deal with that though, the chapter isn't that hard. Dedue can tank Kostas easily enough. 
• Chapter 3: Probably the most frustrating one imo. Even with Torches, you're not going to be able to see the various Poison Strike Archers hiding in the fog right away. The enemies that have battalions will use them, and since no one has Restore yet, this can be a real pain. There's also a ton of enemies surrounding the Dark Mage. Not that difficult once you take control of the center, but before then, it's an annoying chapter. 
• Chapter 5: Just ditch Gilbert. You have to move slow on this chapter because multiple waves of spawns come from behind, so you have to deal with them before moving too far forward. When you pass the little pillar in the top right corner, that triggers the ambush spawns there. They're Thieves with Pass, so if you have any of your squishier units there (Ingrid, Mercedes, Ashe), they will die. For my strategy, I lined the wall where they spawn with my own units to push the thieves upward and made it so none of my slower ones could be attacked twice. Mercedes had Physic at that point, so I was able to heal from a safe distance as well. Keep in mind there are two waves, so don't move your squishy units forward until there's no more spawns. After that, I think it's mostly the same as on Hard but with inflated stats.

Around Chapter 6, I felt the difficulty fell off enough that it wasn't completely unfair, and I think I started doing Paralogues soon after. Once you can, it makes the XP famine much easier to deal with, so for most of the pre-skip after, I thought those were pretty easy chapters. Chapter 12 was kind of annoying because the Demonic Beasts sort of block Edelgard, but with a Dancer and Paladin Dimitri, I was able to reach and KO her anyway. Also, Ladislava spawns way closer to you, but she wants to go after green units for some reason. Ok, sure. 

• Chapter 13: I recommend making Byleth a flier because if you don't, Ashe's survival is a risky proposition. Some of the enemies in the top left of the map will head towards him and Gilbert when they show up, and Dimitri is usually too preoccupied with handling all the beginning enemies to make his way over there quickly. So I used Byleth and Gilbert to bodyblock the incoming enemies. Maybe if you trained Ashe, you wouldn't have to worry about it, but I doubt it. Rest of the map plays out mostly the same. 
• Chapter 14: This chapter is annoying. Every other turn, two Falcon Knights and Paladins spawn by Randolph and head right toward you. It takes them only two turns to reach you. Once you've taken one wave out, a new one spawns and starts the cycle again. The bottom right area where you need to set the fire is guarded by fast Pegasus Knights, so having multiple archers on this map is a good idea. As for me, I just let the enemies without droppables retreat because it was easier and they hardly give any XP, so after the fire attack, just make sure to take out any straggler Falcos. 
• Chapter 19: The enemies here are very densely packed and close together, unlike some of the preceding chapters. I had to send all of my fliers up towards Hilda because she has to fight against a lot of enemies on their own, and she will usually die after a few turns because the Physic users aren't enough against all those enemies. The biggest challenge of this map is protecting Hilda and Judith, but once you've done that, Arundel will usually run right towards your fliers. He's pretty easy to kill. 

That's pretty much all of the chapters where I felt a significant difference. I intend to finish my run today, so maybe I'll add some more later. 

 

 

Edited September 17, 2019 by LegendOfLoog

[DefyingFates]

@LegendOfLoog Thank you so much for such a comprehensive write up!

Would you recommend Wyvern Lord or Falcon Knight for Byleth (i.e. is male or female better)? If I go with the former it'll be that much easier to poach Hilda since I'm training axes, so that'll be nice for C19 at least.

Also, I read SF's page on the Greenhouse, but can someone ELI5 how to get Speed Carrots (or any specific item, for that matter), please? That page says some items can only drop for specific Yield Levels? Also, is there a list of seed combinations that guarantee specific Yield Levels?

[ra2bk]

1 hour ago, LegendOfLoog said:

 Sylvain grows out of it once he gets Swift Strikes and Death Blow, but I think Ingrid and Ashe are bench-tier on this route. Here are some chapters that were sort of difficult so far. 

Did you find any use for magic tanks? That's Ingrid's best role in the game. She has the highest combined res, hp, and speed in the late game.

[LegendOfLoog]

53 minutes ago, ra2bk said:

Did you find any use for magic tanks? That's Ingrid's best role in the game. She has the highest combined res, hp, and speed in the late game.

Magic enemies aren't common enough for most of the game to warrant a magic tank usually. And because she's getting doubled in the early game by mages, she doesn't even have a niche there. Couple that with a bad Strength growth and very fast late game enemies. I don't think the niche ability to tank mages matters much when there are many ways to just kill them outright without taking damage from them at all. 

1 hour ago, DefyingFates said:

@LegendOfLoog Thank you so much for such a comprehensive write up!

Would you recommend Wyvern Lord or Falcon Knight for Byleth (i.e. is male or female better)? If I go with the former it'll be that much easier to poach Hilda since I'm training axes, so that'll be nice for C19 at least.

Also, I read SF's page on the Greenhouse, but can someone ELI5 how to get Speed Carrots (or any specific item, for that matter), please? That page says some items can only drop for specific Yield Levels? Also, is there a list of seed combinations that guarantee specific Yield Levels?

Female is definitely better because F!Byleth can become a Pegasus Knight, so she can work on Flying and get Darting Blow where M!Byleth cannot. Wyvern Lord has a smoother progression to it than Falcon Knight does since there's not really any Advanced class that works for the PegKnight line. You can just stay as a Pegasus Knight until 30 though without too much difficulty; that's what I did, anyway. Having a slightly faster, high Res flier can be useful sometimes as well, and if you do get the mastery skill, Defiant Avoid is much more useful than Defiant Crit from Wyvern Lord. I don't think you can really go wrong either way, but F!Byleth is definitely better for fliers. 

TLDR for the following long explanation: use 1 Pale-Blue Flower Seed before rank A in Professor Level, and use 2 of them with 1 Morfis Seed after that to get a Yield of 3. 

For Speed Carrots specifically, there are only two types of seeds that result in them. Nordsalat Seeds and Pale-Blue Flower Seeds. You can get Speed Carrots from any yield, but the likelihood is much higher as you go up in Yield Levels, and this is true of all statboosters. Both of the seeds above have pros and cons. Pale-Blue Flower Seeds are the common choice because you can buy them at the market. However, you can't guarantee a Yield Level of 3 until you have an A rank in Professor Level. There are two combinations I'm aware of that work for this. The first one is on the Greenhouse page under Explanations, and the second one is something I decided to check since it seemed like it would work. 

• 1 Morfis Seed + 2 Pale-Blue Flower Seeds + 2000 gold from Cultivation (Level 6) 
• 2 Morfis Seeds + 3 Pale-Blue Flower Seeds + 1000 gold from Cultivation (Level 4) 

The only issue with this method is that sometimes, you'll get an Ailell Pomegranate instead because Morfis Seeds yield those, and you can only get one stat booster per yield. +1 Dex is much worse than +1 Spd, and there's no way to save scum stat-boosters that I know of. It's a little less certain. On the other hand, Nordsalat Seeds can reach Yield 3 as early as B rank in Professor Level, and they don't require any other type of seed to reach it. There are two ways to get there, but only one of them is relevant here. 

• 4 Nordsalat Seeds + 0 gold from Cultivation (Level 1) 

Sounds great, right? Problem is, these seeds aren't buyable. That means that you have to get them from spending more time in the Greenhouse. You can get them from a Yield Level of 3 on Vegetable Seeds, Morfis-Plum Seeds, or Eastern Fodlan Seeds. The first and last of these are buyable, but the middle one is not, so I won't consider it yet. Vegetable Seeds are out because you can't reach Yield Level 3 with them until B rank as well, so there's no way to stockpile Nordsalat Seeds early. Eastern Fodlan Seeds are the same. So we're left with the Morfis-Plum Seeds. Those can be gained through White Flower Seeds and Blue Flower Seeds at Yield Level 3, and these are buyable. Again though, the problem is when you can reach Yield Level 3. White Flower Seeds can't reach it until rank A in Professor Level, and Blue Flower Seeds are locked until B again. The only time where you may want to use this method is right at B rank, but even then, planting a crop to get another one to get another one is usually a waste of time. The chances to get what you want are low, so unless you like resetting the game, it may take quite some time before you can even get any Speed Carrots from Nordsalat Seeds. 

So what I recommend doing is the following. One of the early quests give out Root Vegetable Seeds as a reward. These can give Pale-Blue Flower Seeds right from the beginning, so plant one at a time. You actually can save scum seeds and crops, so if you want to do that, it's not a terrible idea to get Pale-Blue Flower Seeds before the merchants come in to sell them. If you do get some, you can just plant one at a time in the early game; they all have a Yield Level of 2 no matter how many of them you plant. I think stat boosters may work like certifications do in that different weeks may have different results, but the same one cannot be changed. So if you are going to try to save scum this too, keep a save file right before you plant the Pale-Blue Flower seeds and go back to save them if you don't get a Speed Carrot. Most of the game will pass in this way until A rank in Professor Level. I also recommend stockpiling Morfis Seeds too if you can because you'll need them later. 

Once you reach rank A, you now have a Yield Level of 3 ready with Morfis Seeds. I personally like going for the 2 and 1 method because it uses less Morfis Seeds (which cannot be bought), but if you're really strapped for gold, you can use the other one as well. You can save scum if you get a Pomegranate the same way I suggested above if you want. When you eventually run out of Morfis Seeds, the best way to get them back is through planting Purple Flower Seeds. They're buyable from the merchants, which is nice. The best way to harvest these is like so.

• 3 Purple Flower Seeds + 500 Gold from Cultivation (Level 3) 

The reason this is the best method is that it gives Rocky Burdock, the +1 Strength statbooster. This is the second best statbooster after Speed Carrots, and having a reliable way to get both of them really helps the AS of your units. So the general loop is Pale-Blue + Morfis -> Purple when out of Morfis -> rinse and repeat. This explanation ended up being a bit longer than I thought it would, but Gardening is actually really complicated lol. 

 

Edited September 17, 2019 by LegendOfLoog

[ALSHx]

I'm doing NG Blue Lions and i've been carried super hard by Dimitri. The chapters are going OK but im having difficulty with the paralogues. Anyone know how to beat the Manuela/Hanneman one? I can't reach her in time before she dies. she takes 19dmg and nosferatu heals her for 3, and that's just from the first archer. On hard i could rush and rescue her with Flayn. The problem now is that im XP-starved. Most of my core crew are around 18-20 but i don't have any fliers yet.

[Strullemia]

Got to the timeskip. So far the game felt very very difficult from ch. 1 till ch. 6 sometimes even unfairly so but after ch. 6 the only maps I had to reset were paralogues but even those got relatively easy once I promoted Byleth and Edelgard into a Wyvern unit. Petra is one too now but she's not as deadly as those two, still an amazing unit. Flying units are just that amazing. Lysithea also got amazing once I got her the Thyreus staff. 

I'll continue tommorow with the first timeskip BE Edelgard chapter. Right now I have Wyvern Lord Byleth, Wyvern rider Edelgard/Petra, Paladin Sylvain, Gremory Lysithea, Dancer Dorothea, Bishop Linehardt, Sniper Bernadetta, Assasin Felix and Pegasus Knight Ingrid.

So far those units have been doing very well although I might get rid off Pegasus Knight Ingrid if she doesn't gain some stats as a Falcon Knight (her damage output is really not that good) for Hubert, Mercedes or Caspar.

[DefyingFates]

@LegendOfLoog: Woah. Thank you so much! I know you're strapped for XP in Maddening but how about money? If money's still easy to get at least it'll be easier to get flowers, right?