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This update changed Bernadetta's support with Byleth

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11 minutes ago, Dai said:

A friend of mine suggested that maybe it had something to do with the actions of Chris Niosi (the previous voice actor for male Byleth) hitting a bit too close to home for someone.

Regardless, this is a pretty unnecessary change.

I thought it had to do with Australia's ratings board giving Nintendo shit for that line?

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55 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said:

It's the excised details.

There's a big difference between "good wife" and "good, submissive wife". As well as "tied to a chair", and "tied to a chair all day". It makes the whole thing less damning. It's still "bad"; but no longer "very bad". The worst part is no longer there, unlike what you ask.

 

isn't that splitting hairs?

the most egrious part is "Tied to a chair."

regardless if "submissive" and "all day" is gone - doesn't change the fact that Bernadetta was tied to a chair by her father to be a good wife.


(i will add - i don't like the change. but to say it's censorship - i'm not sure that' the right word in this context). i don't get why it was done. 

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I have to say I totally ignored reading this Support. Now it makes sense that Bernadetta restrains Felix in their Ending. Maybe they should just have written that she was restrained without much pointing to where she was restrained. But again this still does not change anything and we can think for the rest ourselves.

 

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3 minutes ago, daisy jane said:

 

isn't that splitting hairs?

the most egrious part is "Tied to a chair."

regardless if "submissive" and "all day" is gone - doesn't change the fact that Bernadetta was tied to a chair by her father to be a good wife.


(i will add - i don't like the change. but to say it's censorship - i'm not sure that' the right word in this context). i don't get why it was done. 

Thats' why I say it's still "bad"; but it's no longer "very bad". Also, it isn't exactly splitting hairs. Because there's still a big difference.

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Just now, Acacia Sgt said:

Thats' why I say it's still "bad"; but it's no longer "very bad". Also, it isn't exactly splitting hairs. Because there's still a big difference.

 

how is it a big difference? (i am legitimately curious here). 
to me she's being tied down to be marrigable. inserting "all day" and "submissive" doesn't make it go from bad to very bad (from my point of view). it's still disgusting what her father did. (did they also remove the fact her mom put her in a sack?)

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I saw praise for this support and how well it portrayed abuse. What the hell? Nintendo has made some pretty dumb censorship choices in the past, but this ranks up there with the dumbest.

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13 minutes ago, Espurrhoodie said:

I thought it had to do with Australia's ratings board giving Nintendo shit for that line?

I haven’t heard that. I only shared a suggestion.

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8 minutes ago, daisy jane said:

 

how is it a big difference? (i am legitimately curious here). 
to me she's being tied down to be marrigable. inserting "all day" and "submissive" doesn't make it go from bad to very bad (from my point of view). it's still disgusting what her father did. (did they also remove the fact her mom put her in a sack?)

Because it's left vague. Without clarifying that it's all day, one could just think she's tied down for merely half an hour or so. That's how you can make a difference between something being bad and something being terrible. Since being tied to a chair all day greatly limits what you can do. Like, did he at least fed her while tied up? At least "half an hour" means you can eat afterwards if you get hungry while tied up. In fact, it's possible he wouldn't have even allowed that. Also take note of the other removed bit: "challenged to be quiet." This seems to be that the idea of being tied to the chair all day long was to make her learn to never speak up or complain, no matter how greatly the situation warrants it. Outside just being tied up, it likely includes things like not eating for the entire day. Which adds to the point of being "trained" to be submissive. Conditioning her to "remain quiet" is part of that.

All this is lost by removing half the content of the text box.

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2 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said:

Because it's left vague. Without clarifying that it's all day, one could just think she's tied down for merely half an hour or so. That's how you can make a difference between something being bad and something being terrible. Since being tied to a chair all day greatly limits what you can do. Like, did he at least fed her while tied up? At least "half an hour" means you can eat afterwards if you get hungry while tied up. In fact, it's possible he wouldn't have even allowed that. Also take note of the other removed bit: "challenged to be quiet." This seems to be that the idea of being tied to the chair all day long was to make her learn to never speak up or complain, no matter how greatly the situation warrants it. Outside just being tied up, it likely includes things like not eating for the entire day. Which adds to the point of being "trained" to be submissive. Conditioning her to "remain quiet" is part of that.

All this is lost by removing half the content of the text box.

 

i guess - but without it being specified  - you could also think the worse. it could be 1/2 an hour. it could be all day. it could be for a week. and i suppose for me that's the point. the fact that her father tied her down - regardless if it was for a second makes it horrible. everything else suggested (again for me) is sprinkles on that poop sundae that Bernadetta had to experience. I now though, do get where you are coming from and it does makes sense. i'm just explaining why on my POV it doesn't matter, because it's just flat out horrible. adding more detail doesn't make it more (or less) horrible - for me but i can see how it can impact others. 

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43 minutes ago, Ertrick36 said:

Yeah, it absolutely is bullshit.

Whatever indicated to them that people weren't able to concentrate on the main story?  Who the hell is the man talking about when he says "more casual players"?  Because I sure as hell don't remember any of the casual fans I know complaining about how the game focuses on character relationships.  In fact, people often tout the characters as one of the biggest, if not the biggest appeal of the series.  It's why people caused such a big stink over the roster of Fire Emblem Warriors.  Saying that people don't like the characters in Fire Emblem is like saying people don't like the ability to jump in Mario games.

I don't know what drug Yamagami is on, but I hope he quits it soon so that he can actually develop some goddamn sense.  Because I'll tell you one thing, if there's any reason Fates sold as much as it did, it most certainly wasn't because of the main plot of any of the paths.

Woah there. Just because Yamagami ended up being the one to explain the reasoning of the team doesn't mean it was his idea or his decision. Heck, Maeda said pretty much the same thing earlier in the interview. 

Maeda: It’s not that they are different. Perhaps Fire Emblem enthusiasts would enjoy a long and deep scenario, but for more casual gamers this can make it harder to get into the game. On the other hand, fans of the series may feel unsatisfied with a lighter and shorter story. Therefore, we’ve modified the dialogue scenes to be a bit longer for the Hard Mode and a bit shorter on Normal.

Probably a good idea to link the interview itself at this point:
https://serenesforest.net/general/interviews/radiant-dawn/nintendo-dream/page-1/

The two passages I quotes were from page 2. I don't think the other pages contain anything regarding the difference of the script versions, but I didn't exactly re-read the whole thing just now.

 

In any case, I'm just saying, let's please be more careful with accusations of censorship. Especially when there may be far more mundane explanations for this.

Edited by BrightBow

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It's possible this change could have to do with the ratings of the game, as others have suggested.

In the U.S., Three Houses has a T rating. But the ESRB typically doesn't play through the entire game and read every single line in the script, they are mostly relying on the publisher to give them the worst bits and recommend a rating. I think it's possible a line like this, once it's come to light, could make the ESRB decide the game deserves a a stricter rating, because it touches on child abuse.

Other countries like Australia have even stricter ratings boards. It's regrettable but it might not have been a decision Nintendo made for no reason whatsoever.

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27 minutes ago, BrightBow said:

In any case, I'm just saying, let's please be more careful with accusations of censorship. Especially when there may be far more mundane explanations for this.

In this case, what else can it be? It can't be the dumbing down of the script since the change is too specific, plus the fact the change was made post-release. The intent had to be made after accepting using the first version. Short of finding other changes, this single case is, once again, too specific. Also, the interview you quoted only speaks about NoJ's reasoning. This change is more on NoA's and/or NoE's and/or others side of thing. Also, that interview is from years ago anyway. Things can change, after all.

Edited by Acacia Sgt

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I remember getting this support and going "oh wow, that's... suddenly a lot to take in" and it felt strange revealing all this to a relative stranger someone's exceptionally nervous around.

But it is context that's important. I just expected it in an A support. >_>

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1 minute ago, Acacia Sgt said:

In this case, what else can it be? It can't be the dumbing down of the script since the change is too specific, plus the fact the change was made post-release. The intent had to be made after accepting using the first version. Short of finding other changes, this single case is, once again, too specific. Also, the interview you quoted only speaks about NoJ's reasoning. This change is more on NoA's and/or NoE's and/or others side of thing. Also, that interview is from years ago anyway. Things can change, after all.

But is it specific? Couldn't there be other changes? Just because this is the first one someone made a thread about doesn't mean there couldn't be other changes that were introduced. With 3 routes, I'd imagine the game's script is pretty massive.

And yeah, what we should do is trying to figure out on what end the change was made. So therefore we should check if the Japanese script/version was unchanged.

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17 minutes ago, Chaotix said:

It's possible this change could have to do with the ratings of the game, as others have suggested.

In the U.S., Three Houses has a T rating. But the ESRB typically doesn't play through the entire game and read every single line in the script, they are mostly relying on the publisher to give them the worst bits and recommend a rating. I think it's possible a line like this, once it's come to light, could make the ESRB decide the game deserves a a stricter rating, because it touches on child abuse.

Other countries like Australia have even stricter ratings boards. It's regrettable but it might not have been a decision Nintendo made for no reason whatsoever.

If that's the case it'd be nice if Nintendo would just tell us.

Transparency can go a long way.

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I actually started loving Bernadetta way more after seeing this support and while the way she got in the monastery seemed weird to me but this part was good. 

Like if anything why did they remove submissive? There's a difference between a good and submissive wife and a good wife. A good wife may refer to a caring mother or a wife who doesn't cause trouble but with the word submissive it is clear what it was that her parents were trying to achieve but no, ThreeHouse did it again.

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1 hour ago, Crysta said:

I remember getting this support and going "oh wow, that's... suddenly a lot to take in" and it felt strange revealing all this to a relative stranger someone's exceptionally nervous around.

But it is context that's important. I just expected it in an A support. >_>

Yeah I agree with this, I felt the same reading the B support.

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>it's literally the same line and context, they just moved the wording around

>This is somehow consider censorship and people are now calling for boycotts over this

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I heard some theories that the line got changed due to Australian ratings. Game comes out there the 20th,; perhaps it was a preemptive measure? Those Australians and violence in video games. 

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8 minutes ago, StarBot said:

>it's literally the same line and context, they just moved the wording around

>This is somehow consider censorship and people are now calling for boycotts over this

 

It's not the same line and context. It's obviously dumbed down. And I don't see anybody calling for bocotts here. But it's a stupid change.

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Disappointing, because it explains the whole reason behind Bernadetta’s anxiety problem. 

I don’t see how it’s anymore inappropriate than Serios stabbing Nemesis repeatedly with blood on the scene; not to mention that there Characters like Mercedes, Dimitri, Lysithea and Dorothea with just as tragic backgrounds.

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Ooh interesting... I wasn't expecting dialogue to actually change at all. My version is already upgraded, but if someone still has the previous version with JP screenshots, I'd love to check on that end to see if there's a difference too.

EDIT: I found a pre-patch vid of the JP support conversation, so I can compare it when I get home. : )

Edited by Kirokan

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