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This update changed Bernadetta's support with Byleth

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Wouldn't it kinda makes more sense like Bernadetta's father tying her up to the chair and leaving her for days that kinda getting caused Bernadetta to starve to death? I don't know how many days that her father left her get tied up in that chair that she mentioned unless if she managed to find a way to open the door without using her hands and use her feet to reach to the kitchen to fetch something or ask one of the servants that she get along to feed her something?

Edited by King Marth 64

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11 hours ago, BrightBow said:

How about checking the Japanese version then?

Again, we know from the Radiant Dawn interview that IS doesn't actually want to have a proper script. If they dumped down the script in Radiant Dawn, why wouldn't they do the same here since they now have the power of patching? Especially since the "dumping down" approach correlates with them making a ton of money.

Um...looking at the pre-patch convo alone:

image.png.790f9eea4c871e02773dcfb529a991f6.png

Quote

椅子に縛りつけられて四六時中躾けられて、とにかく良い相手と結婚しろって・・・

"He would leave me tied to a chair to/and discipline/train* me around the clock, all in order to make me a good partner for marriage."

So it may actually be a case of where the new translation is more accurate to the original... xD whether or not that's "better" or "necessary" is up to you. : )

(*To/and I wrote since it can be either the tying was the disciplining, or there was disciplining involved with it which may be where the original ENG translation of adding said cruelties in detail came from. The word can also mean "teaching" or "training").

The patch came out recently, right? The above video was uploaded August 24th, so I think that would be pre-patch... 

So the original localization may have been punched up and now corrected? I don't think that's censorship.

Source video

Hope that helps~ I haven't checked post-patch JP dialogue but based on the above not sure if that will be necessary...

UPDATE: I wrote an in-depth article on it.

EDIT: I feel the need to clarify... because I think people may be misunderstanding, especially since this post has now been linked to elsewhere:

1. No, accurate does not equal better all the time. This is not what this post is saying. I'm just showing that it has become more accurate to the literal original JP.

2. There is the subtlety of the father's cruelty in her word choice and tone. I provided an incredibly literal translation.This is likely what localization had originally picked up on with their initial translation and made more clear to their audiences. I talk a lot about intent in my articles, so in "accuracy" again it is to the literal meaning. I think in terms of "censorship," the original meaning and implications are still there, but the original one "spelled out" the cruelty more than left it implied/to imagination. (The new ENG is now a little awkward though as OP pointed out in terms of how the ideas connect xD)

3. Regarding this whole thing about Germany/Australia ratings and changing it for that, I don't know much about that, nor do I feel qualified to speculate on that kind of matter, so if it's censorship for their sake I guess that would be according to people? The type of censorship I was thinking of (which is usually the one that comes up when it comes to JP > ENG localization) is like the one in point 2 above!

4. I'm not saying they had to do this change. I'm not saying it was necessary. I'm just as confused why it was made myself, and personally liked the originally localized version better. Please do not think this is an attack on the original localization!

Edited by Kirokan

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1 hour ago, Kirokan said:

Ooh interesting... I wasn't expecting dialogue to actually change at all. My version is already upgraded, but if someone still has the previous version with JP screenshots, I'd love to check on that end to see if there's a difference too.

I myself would be curious to know if the JPN version got changed too.

Edit: Oh...so the new translation is actually more faithful? Huh...I'm a little conflicted now.

Edited by Sentinel07

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5 minutes ago, Kirokan said:

Um...looking at the pre-patch convo alone:

image.png.790f9eea4c871e02773dcfb529a991f6.png

"He would leave me tied to a chair around the clock, all in order to make me a good partner for marriage."

So it may actually be a case of where the new translation is more accurate to the original... xD The patch came out yesterday, right? The above video was uploaded August 24th, so would be pre-patch... 

So the original localization may have been punched up and now corrected?

Source video

Wait a minute, so that original pre-patched translation line kinda made her father more of a cruel parent while mentioning about her father in the original script was just bit of a jerk? Is that correct?

Edited by King Marth 64

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11 minutes ago, King Marth 64 said:

Wait, so that original pre-patched translation line kinda made father more of a cruel parent while mentioning about her father in the original script was just bit of a jerk? Is that correct?

That's what it seems like! Unless that video (Uploaded Aug 24) is post-patch before it was released to public. I haven't checked post-patch dialogue on my own console yet, but not sure if that will be necessary...

EDIT: I forgot to add one word to that translation of my original post (about discipline), hope that helps a bit more?

Edited by Kirokan

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"Just a bit of a jerk" is maybe underselling that level of abuse.
And it's not like the NoA version actually added any new abuse. It just tried to come up with some sort of purpose for the whole ordeal. Like, how does being tied up contribute towards making you a good wife? By itself that doesn't actually explain anything.

Edited by BrightBow

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That's um......really random. What exactly was so offensive about Bernie's dad challenging her to be silent? If anyone its tying a child to a chair with the intent of abusing her that's the problematic part. Compared to that just forcing her to keep quite sounds really tame.

If they changed it because they thought it was cruel then they kinda missed the point of Bernadetta's backstory while also focusing on something that's pretty tame. A very curious change. 

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2 minutes ago, BrightBow said:

"Just bit of a jerk" is maybe underselling that level of abuse.
Plus, it's not like the NoA version actually added any new abuse. It just tried to come up with some sort of purpose of the whole ordeal. Like, how does being tied up contribute towards you being a good wife? By itself it doesn't actually explain anything.

I agree, I think they were trying to more clearly express the feeling she was giving in words, as the Japanese is more subtle so perhaps they felt the need to spell it out.

Does anyone have the wider ENG support? I checked the lines before and after the screenshot too but wanted to see how those were in ENG...

1 minute ago, Etrurian emperor said:

That's um......really random. What exactly was so offensive about Bernie's dad challenging her to be silent? If anyone its tying a child to a chair with the intent of abusing her that's the problematic part. Compared to that just forcing her to keep quite sounds really tame.

If they changed it because they thought it was cruel then they kinda missed the point of Bernadetta's backstory while also focusing on something that's pretty tame. A very curious change. 

I think it may be just restoring it to more like the original JP based on what I saw above...

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2 minutes ago, Kirokan said:

I think it may be just restoring it to more like the original JP based on what I saw above...

That's possible but its actually not uncommon for the western version to expand on the Japanese text for better or worse. Hisame's pickle obsession was an addition by the localisation team for example. I heard the glorious wacky persona of Hades in Kid Icarus is also unique to the dubbed version. 

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Interesting.

Perhaps there was something of a mix up? "Around the clock" seems to correlate to "All day". However, the Japanese text seems to refer to the "discipline me", rather than "tied to a chair"? English doesn't have the "discipline me" bit; but could it have been changed to the "challenged me to quiet"?

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10 minutes ago, Etrurian emperor said:

That's possible but its actually not uncommon for the western version to expand on the Japanese text for better or worse. Hisame's pickle obsession was an addition by the localisation team for example. I heard the glorious wacky persona of Hades in Kid Icarus is also unique to the dubbed version. 

Hehe, believe me, I know all about localization having fun with text...especially in Fates... xD but that's the feeling I got they were going for here. As for why they may have reset it though, that I'm not sure about~

10 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said:

Interesting.

Perhaps there was something of a mix up? "Around the clock" seems to correlate to "All day". However, the Japanese text seems to refer to the "discipline me", rather than "tied to a chair"? English doesn't have the "discipline me" bit; but could it have been changed to the "challenged me to quiet"?

Yeah I put a super literal translation there so is a little awkward to read, but I wanted to give people the idea.

I think the discipline part is what ENG picked up on to expand on more, such as that challenge and stuff. Submissive probably from the idea of the previous line of her simply being a "tool for marriage."

(The word can also mean "training" which the new ENG also references)

Edited by Kirokan

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This isn't censorship lol, can we please not use that word for everything?

It's an unnecessary change. Wonder why they did it.

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3 minutes ago, Book Bro said:

This isn't censorship lol, can we please not use that word for everything?

It's an unnecessary change. Wonder why they did it.

OK I have to agree with this.

 

 

25 minutes ago, Kirokan said:

Um...looking at the pre-patch convo alone:

image.png.790f9eea4c871e02773dcfb529a991f6.png

"He would leave me tied to a chair to/and discipline me around the clock, all in order to make me a good partner for marriage."

So it may actually be a case of where the new translation is more accurate to the original... xD

(To/and I wrote since it can be either the tying was the disciplining, or there was disciplining involved with it which may be where the original ENG translation of adding said cruelties in detail came from).

The patch came out recently, right? The above video was uploaded August 24th, so I think that would be pre-patch... 

So the original localization may have been punched up and now corrected? I don't think that's censorship.

Source video

Hope that helps~ I haven't checked post-patch JP dialogue but based on the above not sure if that will be necessary...

Say whaaaaaaaaaaaat?

This came as a total shock, so it was (generally) a good change I guess? Although without having read the before-patch convo I think it would have been harder to understand that her dad was doing it for her to be submissive. IMO they should have kept that in.

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8 minutes ago, Kirokan said:

I think the discipline part is what ENG picked up on to expand on more, such as that challenge and stuff. Submissive probably from the idea of the previous line of her simply being a "tool for marriage."

In a way, both can be interpreted that the intent is to say that she should behave, maybe. I'd agree the submissive bit seems to be an actual addition.

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I guess it could be something as stupid as them accidentally putting in a beta version of the script of sorts.
I mean, the development build is no doubt Japanese only. If they are making a new build, the translations would have to be applied again, I'd imagine. And then mistakes could happen.

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19 minutes ago, Etrurian emperor said:

That's um......really random. What exactly was so offensive about Bernie's dad challenging her to be silent? If anyone its tying a child to a chair with the intent of abusing her that's the problematic part. Compared to that just forcing her to keep quite sounds really tame.

 

If he wanted to keep her silent and was willing to tie her up, would he be willing to gag her? 

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5 minutes ago, This boi uses Nino said:


Say whaaaaaaaaaaaat?

This came as a total shock, so it was (generally) a good change I guess? Although without having read the before-patch convo I think it would have been harder to understand that her dad was doing it for her to be submissive. IMO they should have kept that in.

Right? I wasn't expecting that xD I think that's unprecedented...

11 minutes ago, Book Bro said:

This isn't censorship lol, can we please not use that word for everything?

It's an unnecessary change. Wonder why they did it.

That's the mystery, but it's possible it's a reversion to a script more accurate to the JP script?

3 minutes ago, BrightBow said:

I guess it could be something as stupid as them accidentally putting in a beta version of the script of sorts.
I mean, the development build is no doubt Japanese only. If they are making a new build, the translations would have to be applied again, I'd imagine. And then mistakes could happen.

I could see this as a possibility. : )

Edited by Kirokan

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4 hours ago, Ertrick36 said:

Whatever indicated to them that people weren't able to concentrate on the main story?  Who the hell is the man talking about when he says "more casual players"?  Because I sure as hell don't remember any of the casual fans I know complaining about how the game focuses on character relationships.  In fact, people often tout the characters as one of the biggest, if not the biggest appeal of the series.  It's why people caused such a big stink over the roster of Fire Emblem Warriors.  Saying that people don't like the characters in Fire Emblem is like saying people don't like the ability to jump in Mario games.

Agreed. I play on casual and quite like character interactions. This change lessens the impact of Bernadetta's abuse IMO. A small change, but ultimately a bad move. I'm not a fan of it.

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1 hour ago, StarBot said:

>it's literally the same line and context, they just moved the wording around

>This is somehow consider censorship and people are now calling for boycotts over this

I’m not calling a boycott, I’m merely pointing out a change that seemed like censorship, and from what I’m hearing now it’s related to Australia’s rating system.

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3 minutes ago, Icelerate said:

If he wanted to keep her silent and was willing to tie her up, would he be willing to gag her? 

Yes that does sound like something he could do. However the text says her father "Challenged" her to be silent which indicates she could have made a sound if she wanted. So in that example of abuse Bernie likely wasn't gagged.

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Just because the change ended up making the script more accurate to the Japanese one doesn't exclude that it was done also for censorship. We'd still need to find out if there were other script changes and see why those were changed to really have an answer.

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2 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

It's delightful to see you again @Kirokan:Lilina:

I'm not yet into Three Houses, but I couldn't pass by this board and glimpse over a good non-spoilers textual controversy. To see you here and help resolve it so fast is serendipitous. Thank you!

If you end up playing it, are you going to skip the plot? I hope not, I think you'll enjoy it if you enjoyed the Tellius games or Jugdral games. 

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4 minutes ago, Kirokan said:

Right? I wasn't expecting that xD I think that's unprecedented...

Well in any case it's good that you can translate stuff for the community... oh boy imagine if this got out of hand and then protests... petitions and on and on started poping up from misinformed people complaining about... actually what is this called? Relocalization?

 

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4 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said:

Just because the change ended up making the script more accurate to the Japanese one doesn't exclude that it was done also for censorship. We'd still need to find out if there were other script changes and see why those were changed to really have an answer.

Except we do not actually know that censorship has anything to do with this. In fact, that explanation seems really far-fetched. They are okay with her being tied up by her father but have a problem with her being "challenged to be silent"? That makes no sense. So censorship most likely isn't the reason here.

Edited by BrightBow

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